Whoever doesn’t come up year after year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, to keep the feast of tabernacles.

[VictoryinJesus]

A few questions concerning this “whoever doesn’t go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord of Hosts, to keep the feast of tabernacles.”

Unless I’m wrong a teaching I grew up hearing said this “going up to worship” will be in the future of those that won’t go up to worship the King, the Lord of Host, to keep the feast of tabernacles”

My question is from Judges 21:5 where Benjamin doesn’t go up to worship. Judges 21:2-3 And the people came to the house of God, and abode there till even before God, and lifted up their voices, and wept sore; [3] And said, O Lord God of Israel, why is this come to pass in Israel, that there should be to day one tribe lacking in Israel?

Judges 21:5-6 And the children of Israel said, Who is there among all the tribes of Israel that came not up with the congregation unto the Lord ? For they had made a great oath concerning him that came not up to the Lord to Mizpeh, saying, He shall surely be put to death. [6] And the children of Israel repented them for Benjamin their brother, and said, There is one tribe cut off from Israel this day.

With also Zechariah 14:16-18.

Who is Benjamin in the word and also who is Benjamin NT. This I didn’t know: As the result of a painful childbirth in which his mother died, naming him Ben-oni “Son of my pain.” Before her death. Jacob, his father called him Benjamin “Son of my right (hand).

Why does it matter to me. It matters in looking at Benjamin with things I’ve been told are future of a going up year after year to worship the King, the Lord of Host, and to keep the tabernacle of feast. And that one tribe lacking.

Any input? I do remember Benjamin was the youngest that Joseph brothers took with them to go up to see Joseph in the time of famine. Is that the same Benjamin, or a different “tribe of Benjamin”? And why did Joseph want to see if they (His brothers) would do the same to the youngest Benjamin, as they also had done to Joseph?

 

[GRACE ambassador]

My question is from Judges 21:5 where Benjamin doesn’t go up to worship. Judges 21:2-3 And the people came to the house of God, and abode there till even before God, and lifted up their voices, and wept sore; [3] And said, O Lord God of Israel, why is this come to pass in Israel, that there should be to day one tribe lacking in Israel?

Judges 21:5-6 And the children of Israel said, Who is there among all the tribes of Israel that came not up with the congregation unto the Lord ? For they had made a great oath concerning him that came not up to the Lord to Mizpeh, saying, He shall surely be put to death. [6] And the children of Israel repented them for Benjamin their brother, and said, There is one tribe cut off from Israel this day.

IF this is future in The Great Tribulation:

Rev 7:8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph​

were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.​

THEN God Will Restore the one tribe lacking:

“whoever doesn’t go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord of Hosts, to keep the feast of tabernacles.”

And, thus, All of Israel will not have this problem in the Millennial Reign Of Christ. Amen.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

THEN God Will Restore the one tribe lacking:

(Imo) Give to that which lacks. Sounds like something He would do.

 

[Robert Gwin]

A few questions concerning this “whoever doesn’t go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord of Hosts, to keep the feast of tabernacles.”

Unless I’m wrong a teaching I grew up hearing said this “going up to worship” will be in the future of those that won’t go up to worship the King, the Lord of Host, to keep the feast of tabernacles”

My question is from Judges 21:5 where Benjamin doesn’t go up to worship. Judges 21:2-3 And the people came to the house of God, and abode there till even before God, and lifted up their voices, and wept sore; [3] And said, O Lord God of Israel, why is this come to pass in Israel, that there should be to day one tribe lacking in Israel?

Judges 21:5-6 And the children of Israel said, Who is there among all the tribes of Israel that came not up with the congregation unto the Lord ? For they had made a great oath concerning him that came not up to the Lord to Mizpeh, saying, He shall surely be put to death. [6] And the children of Israel repented them for Benjamin their brother, and said, There is one tribe cut off from Israel this day.

With also Zechariah 14:16-18.

Who is Benjamin in the word and also who is Benjamin NT. This I didn’t know: As the result of a painful childbirth in which his mother died, naming him Ben-oni “Son of my pain.” Before her death. Jacob, his father called him Benjamin “Son of my right (hand).

Why does it matter to me. It matters in looking at Benjamin with things I’ve been told are future of a going up year after year to worship the King, the Lord of Host, and to keep the tabernacle of feast. And that one tribe lacking.

Any input? I do remember Benjamin was the youngest that Joseph brothers took with them to go up to see Joseph in the time of famine. Is that the same Benjamin, or a different “tribe of Benjamin”? And why did Joseph want to see if they (His brothers) would do the same to the youngest Benjamin, as they also had done to Joseph?

Hi Vicky, Christians no longer have these feasts of the law maam. We still observe the passover however, but differently than our brothers under the law covenant, because Christ became our Passover 1 Cor 5:7 As Jesus instructed us on that Passover evening in 33 CE, we keep doing that in remembrance of him Luke 22:19

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Hi Vicky, Christians no longer have these feasts of the law maam. We still observe the passover however, but differently than our brothers under the law covenant, because Christ became our Passover 1 Cor 5:7 As Jesus instructed us on that Passover evening in 33 CE, we keep doing that in remembrance of him Luke 22:19

Thank you for your response. For a moment I thought maybe I imagined it, about going up year after year (as being future) and what would happen to those who don’t because I couldn’t find it in the book of Revelation. So I thought where did I hear it from? That was my question concerning the tribe of Benjamin. About Benjamin not going up with the others. I wanted to know more about Benjamin. I’m not debating whether it is true. As I said I am interested in knowing more about the tribe of Benjamin and to be honest how God dealt with the tribe of Benjamin. because for me this tribe that didn’t go up…tells much about what God did there with that tribe that didn’t go up with the others. And why before God they lifted up their voices, and wept sore; [3] And said, O Lord God of Israel, why is this come to pass in Israel, that there should be to day one tribe lacking in Israel?

This is an example of where I remembered it from. I pulled out a quote that touches more on it.

Tabernacles in the Millennium – Israel My Glory

Gentiles who come to faith in the Jewish Messiah during the Time of Jacob’s Trouble…will join redeemed Jewish people in the true worship of God.
For example: ”Many nations shall be joined to the LORD in that day, and shall be my people” (Zech. 2:11). Isaiah described the Millennial Temple as “an house of prayer for all peoples” (Isa. 56:7; cf. Mt. 21:13; Mk. 11:17; Lk. 19:46) to which all nations of the earth will come to learn the ways of the Lord (Isa. 2:2–3; 60:3; 62:2), to behold God’s glory (Isa. 60:3; 62:2; 66:18), to offer sacrifices (Isa. 56:6–7; 66:20), and to pay material tribute (Isa. 60:5; 66:18–19; cf. Hag. 2:7–8; Rev. 21:24).
This last reference to Gentile payment of tribute also is the only explicit mention of the Feast of Tabernacles in a Millennial context:
And it shall come to pass that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles (Zech. 14:16).
The conclusion of Zechariah 12—14 details the Gentile invasion of Jerusalem during the campaigns of Armageddon. In the immediate context, chapter 14 summarizes events that reveal prophetic aspects predicted by the feast: the advent of Messiah (vv. 3–4), the rescue and restoration of the Jewish remnant (v. 5; cf. Lk. 21:27–28), the experience of heaven-sent light and living water (vv. 7–8), the recognition of Messiah as universal King (v. 9), the transformation of Jerusalem (v. 10), and the gathering of the wealth of the Gentile nations (v. 14).
Those obligated to observe the Feast of Tabernacles in verse 14 are the remnants of the Gentile nations that previously were allied with the Antichrist in his war against the Holy City (Zech. 12:3, 9; 14:2, 12; cf. Rev. 19:19; Ps. 2:1–3). Although a deadly plague will destroy those armies (vv. 12–13), others will remain in these countries to appear before Messiah’s judgment seat at the conclusion of the conflict (Mt. 25:31–32). Individuals who sincerely embraced Messiah and His rule (Rev. 15:3–4)—as evidenced by their costly compassion toward the Jewish people during Antichrist’s vicious, anti-Semitic reign (Mt. 25:35–40)— will continue into the Millennial Kingdom. Nevertheless, under the rod-of-iron rule of Messiah (Ps. 2:9; Rev. 19:15), these nations will be required to demonstrate their allegiance to King Messiah by appearing annually at His Throne-City with tribute and material offerings (as tokens of appreciation for His divine provision). This act is in accordance with an ancient association of the Feast of Tabernacles, recognizing the king as God’s son, as alluded to in Psalm 2:10–12:

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Thank you for your response. For a moment I thought maybe I imagined it, about going up year after year (as being future) and what would happen to those who don’t because I couldn’t find it in the book of Revelation. So I thought where did I hear it from? That was my question concerning the tribe of Benjamin. About Benjamin not going up with the others. I wanted to know more about Benjamin. I’m not debating whether it is true. As I said I am interested in knowing more about the tribe of Benjamin and to be honest how God dealt with the tribe of Benjamin. because for me this tribe that didn’t go up…tells much about what God did there with that tribe that didn’t go up with the others. And why before God they lifted up their voices, and wept sore; [3] And said, O Lord God of Israel, why is this come to pass in Israel, that there should be to day one tribe lacking in Israel?

This is an example of where I remembered it from. I pulled out a quote that touches more on it.

Tabernacles in the Millennium – Israel My Glory

Gentiles who come to faith in the Jewish Messiah during the Time of Jacob’s Trouble…will join redeemed Jewish people in the true worship of God.
For example: ”Many nations shall be joined to the LORD in that day, and shall be my people” (Zech. 2:11). Isaiah described the Millennial Temple as “an house of prayer for all peoples” (Isa. 56:7; cf. Mt. 21:13; Mk. 11:17; Lk. 19:46) to which all nations of the earth will come to learn the ways of the Lord (Isa. 2:2–3; 60:3; 62:2), to behold God’s glory (Isa. 60:3; 62:2; 66:18), to offer sacrifices (Isa. 56:6–7; 66:20), and to pay material tribute (Isa. 60:5; 66:18–19; cf. Hag. 2:7–8; Rev. 21:24).
This last reference to Gentile payment of tribute also is the only explicit mention of the Feast of Tabernacles in a Millennial context:
And it shall come to pass that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles (Zech. 14:16).
The conclusion of Zechariah 12—14 details the Gentile invasion of Jerusalem during the campaigns of Armageddon. In the immediate context, chapter 14 summarizes events that reveal prophetic aspects predicted by the feast: the advent of Messiah (vv. 3–4), the rescue and restoration of the Jewish remnant (v. 5; cf. Lk. 21:27–28), the experience of heaven-sent light and living water (vv. 7–8), the recognition of Messiah as universal King (v. 9), the transformation of Jerusalem (v. 10), and the gathering of the wealth of the Gentile nations (v. 14).
Those obligated to observe the Feast of Tabernacles in verse 14 are the remnants of the Gentile nations that previously were allied with the Antichrist in his war against the Holy City (Zech. 12:3, 9; 14:2, 12; cf. Rev. 19:19; Ps. 2:1–3). Although a deadly plague will destroy those armies (vv. 12–13), others will remain in these countries to appear before Messiah’s judgment seat at the conclusion of the conflict (Mt. 25:31–32). Individuals who sincerely embraced Messiah and His rule (Rev. 15:3–4)—as evidenced by their costly compassion toward the Jewish people during Antichrist’s vicious, anti-Semitic reign (Mt. 25:35–40)— will continue into the Millennial Kingdom. Nevertheless, under the rod-of-iron rule of Messiah (Ps. 2:9; Rev. 19:15), these nations will be required to demonstrate their allegiance to King Messiah by appearing annually at His Throne-City with tribute and material offerings (as tokens of appreciation for His divine provision). This act is in accordance with an ancient association of the Feast of Tabernacles, recognizing the king as God’s son, as alluded to in Psalm 2:10–12:

I did not write this but it is from the article: “Gentiles who come to faith will join Jewish people in the true worship of God”

“gentiles payment of tribute…”

“Those obligated to observe the Feast of Tabernacles”

yes I’m wanting to know more about the tribe of Benjamin
“—as evidenced by their costly compassion” because those before God lifted up their voices, and wept sore; [3] And said, O Lord God of Israel, why is this come to pass in Israel, that there should be to day one tribe lacking in Israel? (The article projects future tense where “all nations” will come before the throne of God to worship. Will there be a nation in “all” that will be lacking? As the tribe of Benjamin?)

“these nations will be required to demonstrate their allegiance to King Messiah by appearing annually”

“These nations”
Connected to futuristic “all nations”
“Will be required to demonstrate their allegiance” how so? What true worship will demonstrate “their allegiance” to King Messiah?
What happened with the tribe of Benjamin? That they were not before Him but those before Him wept sore that they (the tribe of Benjamin) lacked? my question is in all of the above isn’t the True worship of the King of Israel that those before Him demonstrated was their compassion and allegiance to King Messiah by “they lifted their voices” and “wept sore” for that which lack and that even more honor be bestowed upon that which is less comely and least esteemed? As in
2 Corinthians 1:11-12 You also helping together by prayer for us, (of the tribe of Benjamin) that for the gift bestowed upon us by the means of many persons (they wept for the tribe of Benjamin asking before God for that tribe which lacked?)thanks may be given by many on our behalf. [12] For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward.

Who asked before God for Benjamin?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

What true worship will demonstrate “their allegiance” to King Messiah?
What happened with the tribe of Benjamin? That they were not before Him but those before Him wept sore that they (the tribe of Benjamin) lacked? my question is in all of the above isn’t the True worship of the King of Israel that those before Him demonstrated was their compassion and allegiance to King Messiah by “they lifted their voices” and “wept sore” for that which lack and that even more honor be bestowed upon that which is less comely and least esteemed?

1 Corinthians 12:21-26 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of you: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. [22] No, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessarywhere is the tribe of Benjamin they lifted up their voice before God. Where is that part of us that is necessary??? And they wept sore.) [23] And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts (that tribe, a member, which was missing) have more abundant comeliness. [24] For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked: [25] That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. [26] And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.

For me that blows apart what I’ve been taught growing up …is the point of coming before the Throne of God and the true worship of the King Messiah

 

[VictoryinJesus]

1 Corinthians 12:21-26 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of you: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. [22] No, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessarywhere is the tribe of Benjamin they lifted up their voice before God. Where is that part of us that is necessary??? And they wept sore.) [23] And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts (that tribe, a member, which was missing) have more abundant comeliness. [24] For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked: [25] That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. [26] And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.

For me that blows apart what I’ve been taught growing up …is the point of coming before the Throne of God and the true worship of the King Messiah

Luke 15:3-7 And he spake this parable unto them, saying, [4] What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, does not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it? [5] And when he hath found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing.

…or one member be honoured (even that one which is less comely and least desirable) …all the members rejoice with it. (Because it is a “win win”?!?! The answer being “Yea” and not “nay”. the body wins for demonstrating the Messiah on that (1) which lacked; and that which (1) which lacked wins by being found and joined to the 99 therefore the body is whole.)

And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them,Rejoice with me; (I also am of the Tribe of Benjamin “Rejoice, I say it again rejoice) I have found my sheep which was lost. [7] I (the King Messiah) say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repents, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

Why why why …is that degrading or downplaying the 99 that need no repentance being just …for in one thing is all the Law fulfilled “love your brother”
“That which is necessary”
I don’t think it is downplaying the fulfillment of the loving your brother of the 99…but instead the joy of the 99 is that part which was lost is found. As in “Rejoice with Me!” Beautiful I think! And incredibly hopeful. Especially in a world that says the opposite of cutting its own nose off for spite itself is taught and regurgitated over and over. Just thinking out loud because I’ve always wondered what Shepherd that says “I don’t see the wolf coming and leave My Sheep alone…then why a parable about leaving the 99 for that one which is lost? He doesn’t leave the 99 (Imo) because He instructs the 99 to rejoice and their is more abundant Joy in the 1 which…doing the simple math of 1+99= 100 or “made whole”

 

[Robert Gwin]

Thank you for your response. For a moment I thought maybe I imagined it, about going up year after year (as being future) and what would happen to those who don’t because I couldn’t find it in the book of Revelation. So I thought where did I hear it from? That was my question concerning the tribe of Benjamin. About Benjamin not going up with the others. I wanted to know more about Benjamin. I’m not debating whether it is true. As I said I am interested in knowing more about the tribe of Benjamin and to be honest how God dealt with the tribe of Benjamin. because for me this tribe that didn’t go up…tells much about what God did there with that tribe that didn’t go up with the others. And why before God they lifted up their voices, and wept sore; [3] And said, O Lord God of Israel, why is this come to pass in Israel, that there should be to day one tribe lacking in Israel?

This is an example of where I remembered it from. I pulled out a quote that touches more on it.

Tabernacles in the Millennium – Israel My Glory

Gentiles who come to faith in the Jewish Messiah during the Time of Jacob’s Trouble…will join redeemed Jewish people in the true worship of God.
For example: ”Many nations shall be joined to the LORD in that day, and shall be my people” (Zech. 2:11). Isaiah described the Millennial Temple as “an house of prayer for all peoples” (Isa. 56:7; cf. Mt. 21:13; Mk. 11:17; Lk. 19:46) to which all nations of the earth will come to learn the ways of the Lord (Isa. 2:2–3; 60:3; 62:2), to behold God’s glory (Isa. 60:3; 62:2; 66:18), to offer sacrifices (Isa. 56:6–7; 66:20), and to pay material tribute (Isa. 60:5; 66:18–19; cf. Hag. 2:7–8; Rev. 21:24).
This last reference to Gentile payment of tribute also is the only explicit mention of the Feast of Tabernacles in a Millennial context:
And it shall come to pass that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles (Zech. 14:16).
The conclusion of Zechariah 12—14 details the Gentile invasion of Jerusalem during the campaigns of Armageddon. In the immediate context, chapter 14 summarizes events that reveal prophetic aspects predicted by the feast: the advent of Messiah (vv. 3–4), the rescue and restoration of the Jewish remnant (v. 5; cf. Lk. 21:27–28), the experience of heaven-sent light and living water (vv. 7–8), the recognition of Messiah as universal King (v. 9), the transformation of Jerusalem (v. 10), and the gathering of the wealth of the Gentile nations (v. 14).
Those obligated to observe the Feast of Tabernacles in verse 14 are the remnants of the Gentile nations that previously were allied with the Antichrist in his war against the Holy City (Zech. 12:3, 9; 14:2, 12; cf. Rev. 19:19; Ps. 2:1–3). Although a deadly plague will destroy those armies (vv. 12–13), others will remain in these countries to appear before Messiah’s judgment seat at the conclusion of the conflict (Mt. 25:31–32). Individuals who sincerely embraced Messiah and His rule (Rev. 15:3–4)—as evidenced by their costly compassion toward the Jewish people during Antichrist’s vicious, anti-Semitic reign (Mt. 25:35–40)— will continue into the Millennial Kingdom. Nevertheless, under the rod-of-iron rule of Messiah (Ps. 2:9; Rev. 19:15), these nations will be required to demonstrate their allegiance to King Messiah by appearing annually at His Throne-City with tribute and material offerings (as tokens of appreciation for His divine provision). This act is in accordance with an ancient association of the Feast of Tabernacles, recognizing the king as God’s son, as alluded to in Psalm 2:10–12:

The Bible is truly amazing Vicky, one can spend much time in studying it and remain an infant. I am not much up on the tribes of Israel, although they are our history. I have always been the kind to keep looking forward, as it is what pertains to us maam. I would be more than happy to share our information on Benjamin if you would like maam.

 

[Davy]

A few questions concerning this “whoever doesn’t go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord of Hosts, to keep the feast of tabernacles.”

Unless I’m wrong a teaching I grew up hearing said this “going up to worship” will be in the future of those that won’t go up to worship the King, the Lord of Host, to keep the feast of tabernacles”

My question is from Judges 21:5 where Benjamin doesn’t go up to worship. Judges 21:2-3 And the people came to the house of God, and abode there till even before God, and lifted up their voices, and wept sore; [3] And said, O Lord God of Israel, why is this come to pass in Israel, that there should be to day one tribe lacking in Israel?

Judges 21:5-6 And the children of Israel said, Who is there among all the tribes of Israel that came not up with the congregation unto the Lord ? For they had made a great oath concerning him that came not up to the Lord to Mizpeh, saying, He shall surely be put to death. [6] And the children of Israel repented them for Benjamin their brother, and said, There is one tribe cut off from Israel this day.

With also Zechariah 14:16-18.

Who is Benjamin in the word and also who is Benjamin NT. This I didn’t know: As the result of a painful childbirth in which his mother died, naming him Ben-oni “Son of my pain.” Before her death. Jacob, his father called him Benjamin “Son of my right (hand).

Why does it matter to me. It matters in looking at Benjamin with things I’ve been told are future of a going up year after year to worship the King, the Lord of Host, and to keep the tabernacle of feast. And that one tribe lacking.

Any input? I do remember Benjamin was the youngest that Joseph brothers took with them to go up to see Joseph in the time of famine. Is that the same Benjamin, or a different “tribe of Benjamin”? And why did Joseph want to see if they (His brothers) would do the same to the youngest Benjamin, as they also had done to Joseph?

Just because there's a similar wording about Benjamin in Judges 21, you think that applies to the Zechariah 14 event after Christ's future coming too?

You have to keep it simple. The time about Benjamin was a DIFFERENT situation than the Zechariah 14 event.

Zech 14:16-17
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
KJV

That is for AFTER... Christ's future return. So what time is that? It is the time of Christ's future "thousand years" reign of Revelation 20. Lord Jesus is going to reign 1,000 years over all nations directly, with His elect, at His future return. And then The Great White Throne Judgement will happen, to see who wants to live with Him and The Father for eternity.

So will all nations agree during that 1,000 years? NO! Sadly, no.

All nations WILL bow to Jesus Christ as King of kings, and Lord of lords. But not all nations in that future time will be willing to come up to Jerusalem from year to year to worship Him, and keep an old Jewish feast that God gave the Israelites (i.e., the Feast of Tabernacles).

What did our Heavenly Father want to show us by that future event?

It is to show that even during Christ's future 1,000 years reign over all nations, some are still... going to REBEL against Him. It may seem unbelievable to those in Christ, because it is so simple for us to believe on The Father and His Son Jesus Christ, and want to obey Him. But for others, even in that future time, if they can't be their own god, they don't want to bow to anyone, so those will still show a bit of rebellion even in that future time.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Just because there's a similar wording about Benjamin in Judges 21, you think that applies to the Zechariah 14 event after Christ's future coming too?

You have to keep it simple. The time about Benjamin was a DIFFERENT situation than the Zechariah 14 event.

Zech 14:16-17
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
KJV

That is for AFTER... Christ's future return. So what time is that? It is the time of Christ's future "thousand years" reign of Revelation 20.

i wasn’t trying to confuse the two because of the name “Benjamin”. I never had any interest in debating the time. My interest was solely in learning about how God dealt with Benjamin who came not up and where Israel asked before God, why it had come to pass that one tribe was lacking.

Does that mean one tribe had not what was necessary…meaning “they lacked” or fell short, or the whole body fell short?

To clarify further …during church worship someone necessary is not there. Is it ….why should that one be lacking? As in condemnation. Or are they missed as a necessary member of the congregation who is absent?

 

[Davy]

i wasn’t trying to confuse the two because of the name “Benjamin”. I never had any interest in debating the time. My interest was solely in learning about how God dealt with Benjamin who came not up and where Israel asked before God, why it had come to pass that one tribe was lacking.

Does that mean one tribe had not what was necessary…meaning “they lacked” or fell short, or the whole body fell short?

To clarify further …during church worship someone necessary is not there. Is it ….why should that one be lacking? As in condemnation. Or are they missed as a necessary member of the congregation who is absent?

The tribe of Benjamin had allowed evil among their land. Look back at Judges 1 thru 3 of how the tribe of Benjamin had not driven out the Jebusites (a Canaanite people) out of the land like God commanded. Same with all the other tribes, they allowed the Canaanite leftovers to dwell among them, and made them bondservants to Israel.

And in Judges 19, a certain Levite and his concubine traveling through the land of Benjamin, and the sons of Belial sought the Levite in the house where he was a guest, for him to come out so they might 'know' him (i.e., sodomize him). The man instead offered them his concubine (who had played the harlot before), and told the men to do what they will with her. The men abused her all night. The next day she lay dead at the door threshold, so the Levite, her husband, took her dead body and cut it into 12 pieces, and sent a piece each to the 12 tribes. And so the Israelite tribes went to war with the tribe of Benjamin, and almost completely wiped the tribe of Benjamin out. With Judges 21, the rest of Israel is sad because the tribe of Benjamin is their brother, and prayed how could this thing happen, that Israel would be 'lacking' in one tribe...


Judg 21:2-6
2 And the people came to the house of God, and abode there till even before God, and lifted up their voices, and wept sore;

3 And said, O LORD God of Israel, why is this come to pass in Israel, that there should be to day one tribe lacking in Israel?

4 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the people rose early, and built there an altar, and offered burnt offerings and peace offerings.

5 And the children of Israel said, Who is there among all the tribes of Israel that came not up with the congregation unto the LORD? For they had made a great oath concerning him that came not up to the LORD to Mizpeh, saying, He shall surely be put to death.

6 And the children of Israel repented them for Benjamin their brother, and said, There is one tribe cut off from Israel this day.
KJV


You really just have to start reading in Judges 19 thru 21 to get what happened and how the tribe of Benjamin was almost completely 'cut off'. So by the time you get to Judges 21, after the other tribes went to war with the tribe of Benjamin because of what the sons of Belial did, the tribe of Benjamin falls into trouble again by not coming up to the house of the Lord with the rest of the tribes.

SUMMARY:
In Deuteronomy 20, God had commanded the children of Israel to literally wipe out seven specific nations of the Canaanites when Israel came into the land of Canaan. God told them to not leave alive anything that breaths. This was because of the abominations and wickedness they did which God put up with we know for four generations (because of what He said to Abraham about the iniquity of the Amorites was not yet full - Genesis 15:13-16.) Also, those Canaanite nations was where the 'giants' dwelt, which were from a 2nd eruption of mating with flesh woman per Genesis 6:4 with "and also after that,". That especially points to why God commanded Israel to destroyed those 7 nations of Deut.20. For the other nations around them, God commanded Israel to make peace with them.

The Israelites failed in obeying God's command to wipe out those 7 nations of Canaanites. We especially see this in Judges 2 & 3 where God asked Israel why they disobeyed Him in that? So He said He would allow those leftover Canaanites they were not able to destroy, to dwell among them. So the wicked ways of the "sons of Belial" that molested the Levite's concubine in Judges 19, one should look back at the crept in Canaanite leftovers. This has actually been a problem among the children of Israelite through its generations, and only if you are aware of it will you begin to see in God's Word. It is specifically what Jesus was teaching us about dealing with His parable of the "tares" of the field. Jude 4 also mentions these crept in unawares among God's people. And it is still going on today.

 

[amadeus]

My question is from Judges 21:5 where Benjamin doesn’t go up to worship. Judges 21:2-3 And the people came to the house of God, and abode there till even before God, and lifted up their voices, and wept sore; [3] And said, O Lord God of Israel, why is this come to pass in Israel, that there should be to day one tribe lacking in Israel?

Judges 21:5-6 And the children of Israel said, Who is there among all the tribes of Israel that came not up with the congregation unto the Lord ? For they had made a great oath concerning him that came not up to the Lord to Mizpeh, saying, He shall surely be put to death. [6] And the children of Israel repented them for Benjamin their brother, and said, There is one tribe cut off from Israel this day.

Consider if you will also the tribe of Dan. The other tribes worked together in the Book of Judges to restore the decimated tribe of Benjamin and later we see the first king of Israel coming from that restored tribe. What happened to Dan in the 7th chapter of the Book of Revelation? Benjamin is there but not Dan! Why not?

 

[Davy]

Consider if you will also the tribe of Dan. The other tribes worked together in the Book of Judges to restore the decimated tribe of Benjamin and later we see the first king of Israel coming from that restored tribe. What happened to Dan in the 7th chapter of the Book of Revelation? Benjamin is there but not Dan! Why not?

Note that Ephraim is missing also. Joseph is put for Ephraim instead.

Both Dan and Ephraim are to have problems falling away for the 'end'.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

You really just have to start reading in Judges 19 thru 21 to get what happened and how the tribe of Benjamin was almost completely 'cut off'. So by the time you get to Judges 21, after the other tribes went to war with the tribe of Benjamin because of what the sons of Belial did, the tribe of Benjamin falls into trouble again by not coming up to the house of the Lord with the rest of the tribes.

“how the tribe of Benjamin was almost completely ‘cut off’. Then “the tribe of Benjamin falls into trouble again by not coming up to the house of the Lord with the rest of the tribes”

As I said earlier in other post here. I wasn’t debating the time but relaying what image I’ve had from what I’ve been told. You always say I should (not) listen to men (blaming I’ve listened to faulty teachers, unless I misunderstood). So I’m trying to sort out where you said the passage that speaks of going up to worship the King during the millennium reign. The image I’ve had of the millennium reign is the Messiah as King sitting on a throne and ruling where all nations are to come up to worship before His throne and from there He rules. I’m not saying the image I have is correct. Only that this has been built as the construction of a movie is built (for example the left behind movies). my mind has built a future of the Messiah ruling… yet without there is an almost apocalyptic scene of eyes rotting out in their sockets, of skin melting and peeling; literally walking men plagued for not coming up to worship the King Messiah. A land barren and grey with people who don’t go up to worship in “allegiance” to the king. Is this any where near what you see as the future? Of those who pledge allegiance and come to worship and those nations who do not come with them. If any where near, this said to be future “Reign” of Jesus Christ…how then is Benjamin not an example of
“how the tribe of Benjamin was almost completely ‘cut off’. Then “the tribe of Benjamin falls into trouble again by not coming up to the house of the Lord with the rest of the tribes”

I’m only sharing what I’ve taught and what has been planted cornering past, present and future. I’m not trying to teach of what the future will be like but to be honest I am questioning what I’ve been told which seems more like a movie than the truth. That is why Benjamin discloses a lot (Imo)…as an example from history of even to not boast because if that which has been ‘cut off’ can be ‘rejoined’ ….if God can do that with the Jews can God also do the same with the gentiles?

 

[Davy]

“how the tribe of Benjamin was almost completely ‘cut off’. Then “the tribe of Benjamin falls into trouble again by not coming up to the house of the Lord with the rest of the tribes”

As I said earlier in other post here. I wasn’t debating the time but relaying what image I’ve had from what I’ve been told. You always say I should (not) listen to men (blaming I’ve listened to faulty teachers, unless I misunderstood). So I’m trying to sort out where you said the passage that speaks of going up to worship the King during the millennium reign. The image I’ve had of the millennium reign is the Messiah as King sitting on a throne and ruling where all nations are to come up to worship before His throne and from there He rules. I’m not saying the image I have is correct. Only that this has been built as the construction of a movie is built (for example the left behind movies). my mind has built a future of the Messiah ruling… yet without there is an almost apocalyptic scene of eyes rotting out in their sockets, of skin melting and peeling; literally walking men plagued for not coming up to worship the King Messiah. A land barren and grey with people who don’t go up to worship in “allegiance” to the king. Is this any where near what you see as the future? Of those who pledge allegiance and come to worship and those nations who do not come with them. If any where near, this said to be future “Reign” of Jesus Christ…how then is Benjamin not an example of
“how the tribe of Benjamin was almost completely ‘cut off’. Then “the tribe of Benjamin falls into trouble again by not coming up to the house of the Lord with the rest of the tribes”

I’m only sharing what I’ve taught and what has been planted cornering past, present and future. I’m not trying to teach of what the future will be like but to be honest I am questioning what I’ve been told which seems more like a movie than the truth. That is why Benjamin discloses a lot (Imo)…as an example from history of even to not boast because if that which has been ‘cut off’ can be ‘rejoined’ ….if God can do that with the Jews can God also do the same with the gentiles?

Those events about Benjamin in the Book of Judges has nothing to do with the events at the end of Zechariah 14. I stated that fact in my post #10. So you should study those Zechariah 14 events as per their 'own' timing, which is for AFTER Christ's future return and when He is reigning in Jerusalem.

Those of the nations of Zechariah 14 that refuse to come up to worship AFTER Jesus has return in our future, that is simply a sign of their continued rebellion. It has nothing to do with the 12 tribes of Israel in that time.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Consider if you will also the tribe of Dan. The other tribes worked together in the Book of Judges to restore the decimated tribe of Benjamin and later we see the first king of Israel coming from that restored tribe. What happened to Dan in the 7th chapter of the Book of Revelation? Benjamin is there but not Dan! Why not?

Thank you for sharing! I did not know this. I know very little (next to nothing) about the tribes. I’ve been blamed before for wanting a passive God that lets everything slide. I don’t think (Imo) God let slide what the brothers did to Joseph (throwing him in a pit, and selling him)

Concerning Joseph where all his brothers come into worship Joseph at the end. Joseph says (if I remember correctly) to not worship him but to worship God instead. What about their bowing down before Jospeh? To worship him.
Joseph wept knowing his brothers while they do not know him. I’m only sharing what little I do know about the tribes… To me it doesn’t end there …where the brothers suffer nothing for what they did to their brother. It is the Tribes that show (possibly) each went away into bondage as they had also sent their brother into bondage. Yet, what they meant for evil God means for good. Does that make sense?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Those events about Benjamin in the Book of Judges has nothing to do with the events at the end of Zechariah 14. I stated that fact in my post #10. So you should study those Zechariah 14 events as per their 'own' timing, which is for AFTER Christ's future return and when He is reigning in Jerusalem.

Those of the nations of Zechariah 14 that refuse to come up to worship AFTER Jesus has return in our future, that is simply a sign of their continued rebellion. It has nothing to do with the 12 tribes of Israel in that time.

Tribes
Nations
“those of the nations of Zechariah 14 that refuse to come up to worship AFTER Christ’s future return and when He is reigning in Jerusalem.”

Maybe not…but (Imo) it does help to read How God dealt with the tribes before Christ’s future return and reign, and how God deals with the nations After Christ’s future return and reign.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Both Dan and Ephraim are to have problems falling away for the 'end'.

Unless there be a great falling away first?

 

[Davy]

Tribes
Nations
“those of the nations of Zechariah 14 that refuse to come up to worship AFTER Christ’s future return and when He is reigning in Jerusalem.”

Maybe not…but (Imo) it does help to read How God dealt with the tribes before Christ’s future return and reign, and how God deals with the nations After Christ’s future return and reign.

But the main point of those nations not coming up to worship in that future... time is to show how that will still not be God's new heavens and a new earth time. In the new heavens and earth time, God's eternity, there won't be anymore rebellion.