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Why all the focus on homosexuality?

Discussion in 'NonChristian Help Forum' started by Lunar, Nov 29, 2007.

  1. Lunar

    Lunar New Member

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    A quick question I had.It seems as though many Christian communities today have made the issue of homosexuality and gay rights one of their most important issues. Now, while it's debatable, there's obviously some evidence in the Bible that you could find to support the view that homosexuality is a sin. But what stands out to me more is how much the Bible - and especially the New Testament, which I consider to be the cornerstone of the Christian tradition - mentions things like kindness and forgiveness of sinners, and caring for the poor and unfortunate.Even if homosexuals are sinners, why so much demonization? Why would that sin in particular be focused on, when the Bible teaches that we are all sinners, and what's most important is faith in Christ? I heard someone say straight-faced in another thread that someone should be wary of ending up as "sex fodder for a bunch of degenerate fruitcakes." I just can't find what sort of passage in the Bible would inspire such hate.When we are, say, looking at who we would choose as a political candidate, doesn't it seem more important to look at who would be more likely to help the poor and unfortunate, a topic which the New Testament mentions hundreds of times, than to look at his stance on homosexuality and abortion, which to the best of my knowledge the New Testament does not mention at all? And shouldn't we be viewing homosexuals as fellow sinners who are equally deserving of our compassion, rather than degenerates?I, personally, don't think that homosexuality is a sin according to Christian beliefs. But even if it were, it seems as though a disproportionate amount of attention is directed towards it.
     
  2. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    Leviticus 18:22 - Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.Romans 1:24 - Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:Romans 1:26 - For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:Romans 1:27 - And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.Romans 1:32 - Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.Jag
     
  3. Lunar

    Lunar New Member

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    (thesuperjag;24423)
    Leviticus 18:22 - Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.Romans 1:24 - Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:Romans 1:26 - For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:Romans 1:27 - And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.Romans 1:32 - Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.Jag
    Well to start, I place very little stock in Leviticus as it makes all sorts of moral claims that even the most conservative Christian would not follow (like those about selling your daughter into slavery), and also because Paul argues that the Mosaic law is, if not completely irrelevant, then definitely secondary to faith in Christ. The passages from Romans, meanwhile, certainly aren't singling out homosexuals in particular, but a vast group of people committing all sorts of sins.Regardless, though, it still doesn't answer the question. At best, even if your quotes demonstrate homosexuality as a sin, it doesn't distinguish homosexuality as a sin that merits the extraordinary amount of focus that it's getting. Sinners deserve compassion and forgiveness, as Jesus teaches. You're well aware, of course, that Jesus associate regularly with the lowest of sinners. Why, when you can produce two passages that speak out against homosexuality, is that made a more important issue than caring for the poor, with which we could obviously produce hundreds of related passages? And if you really think something in Paul's epistle to the Romans denotes homosexuality as a sin of extraordinary significance, in spite of the scarcity with which it is actually mentioned throughout the rest of the Bible, then why is equal attention not paid to the other sins he mentions mere verses later: covetousness, envy, pride, disobedience to parents, etc.?
     
  4. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (Lunar;24427)
    (thesuperjag;24423)
    Leviticus 18:22 - Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.Romans 1:24 - Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:Romans 1:26 - For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:Romans 1:27 - And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.Romans 1:32 - Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
    Well to start, I place very little stock in Leviticus as it makes all sorts of moral claims that even the most conservative Christian would not follow (like those about selling your daughter into slavery), and also because Paul argues that the Mosaic law is, if not completely irrelevant, then definitely secondary to faith in Christ. The passages from Romans, meanwhile, certainly aren't singling out homosexuals in particular, but a vast group of people committing all sorts of sins.Regardless, though, it still doesn't answer the question. At best, even if your quotes demonstrate homosexuality as a sin, it doesn't distinguish homosexuality as a sin that merits the extraordinary amount of focus that it's getting. Sinners deserve compassion and forgiveness, as Jesus teaches. You're well aware, of course, that Jesus associate regularly with the lowest of sinners. Why, when you can produce two passages that speak out against homosexuality, is that made a more important issue than caring for the poor, with which we could obviously produce hundreds of related passages? And if you really think something in Paul's epistle to the Romans denotes homosexuality as a sin of extraordinary significance, in spite of the scarcity with which it is actually mentioned throughout the rest of the Bible, then why is equal attention not paid to the other sins he mentions mere verses later: covetousness, envy, pride, disobedience to parents, etc.?We reuke and hate sin...period. YHWH condemn sin. We are to love the sinner, not the sin. Love does mean to warn others and tell them to repent...but first they need Yahshua as their Lord and Saviour. Your choice, if you want to listen to men over God.John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.John 3:17 - For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.John 3:18 - He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.Jag
     
  5. jkdjr25

    jkdjr25 New Member

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    I've always thought that we were to extend the loving hand of Christ to everyone, regardless of anything else. They will know we are Christians by our love. I do agree that people need to be warned about the fruits of their behaviour but I think we can do so without being ugly or meanspirited to people.
     
  6. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (jkdjr25;24441)
    I've always thought that we were to extend the loving hand of Christ to everyone, regardless of anything else. They will know we are Christians by our love. I do agree that people need to be warned about the fruits of their behaviour but I think we can do so without being ugly or meanspirited to people.
    We are to love them. But to the world, they think warning them is a nasty attitude, so they hate God and Christians. (and Jews)Jag
     
  7. Lunar

    Lunar New Member

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    We are to love them. But to the world, they think warning them is a nasty attitude, so they hate God and Christians. (and Jews)Jag
    It's definitely not the case that all or even most gays hate God and Christians, and I *definitely* don't associate antisemitism with gays. I'm openly gay and in a committed relationship and none of that has ever made me hate God, Christians or Jews. In general, I try not to hate anybody, because I think that's one of the most important parts of Jesus' message.What I see as truly sad is the case of those who have made the exclusion of gays a higher priority than caring for the unfortunate.
     
  8. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (Lunar;24455)
    (thesuperjag;24444)
    We are to love them. But to the world, they think warning them is a nasty attitude, so they hate God and Christians. (and Jews)Jag
    It's definitely not the case that all or even most gays hate God and Christians, and I *definitely* don't associate antisemitism with gays. I'm openly gay and in a committed relationship and none of that has ever made me hate God, Christians or Jews. In general, I try not to hate anybody, because I think that's one of the most important parts of Jesus' message.What I see as truly sad is the case of those who have made the exclusion of gays a higher priority than caring for the unfortunate.Well God hates sins. Every sin.John 14:15 - If ye love me, keep my commandments.How can one love God if one don't follow Him? I love you Lunar...but I can only warn you of sin. It is your choice...your life. You can follow men or God. God doesn't want anyone to preish.Jag
     
  9. jkdjr25

    jkdjr25 New Member

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    This is one of those issues I, personally, don't talk about much. The Holy Spirit must convict someone on it. I'm never sure what to say and that's usually a good indication I should keep my mouth shut.
     
  10. Lunar

    Lunar New Member

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    Well God hates sins. Every sin.John 14:15 - If ye love me, keep my commandments.How can one love God if one don't follow Him? I love you Lunar...but I can only warn you of sin. It is your choice...your life. You can follow men or God. God doesn't want anyone to preish.Jag
    I appreciate your concern and I respect your view, but I don't think that I am breaking God's commandments by loving another man. What I have is not senseless lust, it is love, and I think that love is the truest expression of Christ.
     
  11. David161099

    David161099 New Member

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    Blessed are the Peacemakers, yet we invade IRAQ for oil.........yet,,....Homosexuality gets more focus?Why doesn't lust get put ahead of Homosexuality, because there are more of us straight males sinning with lust, than all the homosexuals on the planet put together!Adultery of the eyes!
     
  12. PDF

    PDF New Member

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    Homosexuality gets such attention because people dont understand it, and a lack of understanding can easily lead to hate, which this world loves to do. Yes, i believe homosexuality is a sexual sin, but its no more of a sin than a man looking at a woman with lust in his mind as he passes her on the street. I think its despicable how so many "christians" go around condeming others. No wonder so many people think christians as nothing but hypocrites. Christianity is about love and tolerance, not condemnation and judgement.
     
  13. David161099

    David161099 New Member

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    (PDF;24468)
    Christianity is about love and tolerance, not condemnation and judgement.
    I've been told differently by a lot of christians online in the last week or so [​IMG]
     
  14. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (Lunar;24461)
    (thesuperjag;24456)
    Well God hates sins. Every sin.John 14:15 - If ye love me, keep my commandments.How can one love God if one don't follow Him? I love you Lunar...but I can only warn you of sin. It is your choice...your life. You can follow men or God. God doesn't want anyone to preish.Jag
    I appreciate your concern and I respect your view, but I don't think that I am breaking God's commandments by loving another man. What I have is not senseless lust, it is love, and I think that love is the truest expression of Christ.Genesis 1:27 - So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.Genesis 2:24 - Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.Nowhere in both Old Testament and the New Testament stated it is OK for a male to have sex with another male... or a female to have sex with another female...or a woman having sex with an animal. As the Old Testament and the New Testament compliments each other. They are all completely unlawful. It is unnatural.Oh another note...We are suppose to love everyone. To give out Truth and warn everyone...but never with hatred. As we are not the Judge. Only God is. But we are suppose to judge it's fruit to see whether it is of God or not.(David161099;24471)
    (PDF;24468)
    Christianity is about love and tolerance, not condemnation and judgement.
    I've been told differently by a lot of christians online in the last week or so :To both Lunar and DavidJohn 7:24 - Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.In short, we can never judge the soul, but the doctrine.Jag
     
  15. Lunar

    Lunar New Member

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    (thesuperjag;24478)
    Nowhere in both Old Testament and the New Testament stated it is OK for a male to have sex with another male... or a female to have sex with another female...or a woman having sex with an animal. As the Old Testament and the New Testament compliments each other. They are all completely unlawful. It is unnatural.
    You can't say that the only things that are lawful to do are the things that the Bible specifically says you can do, though. I don't think the Bible made any specific mention about eating pizza, or watching an action comedy, or listening to music by Mozart, but no one would claim that it is un-Christian to do these things just because the Bible never said you could do them.The only claims that I see about homosexuality in the Bible are made by sources that make some other very unconventional claims as well. Even Paul, who seems to mention homosexuality as a negative, also claims that slaves should be subservient to their masters, and that we should always obey the state authority because there is no authority other than that which is proclaimed by God. I'm certain modern Christians wouldn't condone slavery - I certainly don't - so I don't understand why the same skepticism isn't extended to Paul's claims about homosexuality.
     
  16. David161099

    David161099 New Member

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    What it comes down to is focus and energy.The law is spelled out, but which part of the law are Christians focussing all their energy on? :naughty:I see in my country, people who call themselves christians driving around in a mercedez, and there are homeless people on the street starving!And you wanna focus all your intention on homosexuals????MY heart breaks that we live in a world where the news is all about Britney Spears and her drug binges, and this starving mother comes up and begs me for change last night!You may think your world is going to hell, but Your God is everlasting and a living god!All the things in the world are worthless compared to him and his love!Yes homosexual acts are not part of God's purpose, but so many other things aren't as well!My point is that we focus too much on condeming others because of this one sin.
     
  17. Wise Haven

    Wise Haven New Member

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    (Lunar;24418)
    A quick question I had.It seems as though many Christian communities today have made the issue of homosexuality and gay rights one of their most important issues. Now, while it's debatable, there's obviously some evidence in the Bible that you could find to support the view that homosexuality is a sin. But what stands out to me more is how much the Bible - and especially the New Testament, which I consider to be the cornerstone of the Christian tradition - mentions things like kindness and forgiveness of sinners, and caring for the poor and unfortunate.Even if homosexuals are sinners, why so much demonization? Why would that sin in particular be focused on, when the Bible teaches that we are all sinners, and what's most important is faith in Christ? I heard someone say straight-faced in another thread that someone should be wary of ending up as "sex fodder for a bunch of degenerate fruitcakes." I just can't find what sort of passage in the Bible would inspire such hate.When we are, say, looking at who we would choose as a political candidate, doesn't it seem more important to look at who would be more likely to help the poor and unfortunate, a topic which the New Testament mentions hundreds of times, than to look at his stance on homosexuality and abortion, which to the best of my knowledge the New Testament does not mention at all? And shouldn't we be viewing homosexuals as fellow sinners who are equally deserving of our compassion, rather than degenerates?I, personally, don't think that homosexuality is a sin according to Christian beliefs. But even if it were, it seems as though a disproportionate amount of attention is directed towards it.
    That quote used above was from me in a thread about Satanism.You have quoted me totally out of context..............this reference had nothing to do about homosexuality but about the risk of being sexually abused whilst participating in satanic ritual. There wasn't even an implied disapproval of homosexuality. "Fruitcake" was actually a reference to someones warped mentality.If you look at my other posts here you will find I am probably the only person here that does not have a negative opinion of "Other sexuality"In fact a lot of my posts educating people about the real nature of Homosexual and Transgendered people have been deleted because they are seen as controversial. Personally I believe people do not have choice about their sexual or gender orientation.I would appreciate an apology (before this gets deleted) Please :naughty:
     
  18. Wise Haven

    Wise Haven New Member

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    (David161099;24462)
    Blessed are the Peacemakers, yet we invade IRAQ for oil.........yet,,....Homosexuality gets more focus?Why doesn't lust get put ahead of Homosexuality, because there are more of us straight males sinning with lust, than all the homosexuals on the planet put together!Adultery of the eyes!
    Here, Here - Homosexuality is a scapegoat and focus of hate by many Christians.Considering the size of the homosexual population the amount of negativity focused on them is way out of proportion to the amount of sin they are committing (or not as may be the case).
     
  19. Wise Haven

    Wise Haven New Member

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    (Lunar;24461)
    I appreciate your concern and I respect your view, but I don't think that I am breaking God's commandments by loving another man. What I have is not senseless lust, it is love, and I think that love is the truest expression of Christ.
    Just my argument in a previous thread. Heterosexual and homosexual lust and promiscuity is sinful - not one more than the other.A loving relationship, whoever is involved, is surely a better thing.This pettiness about homosexuality is causing much division in the church, way beyond its actual relevance or importance. Now that is dangerous!
     
  20. Lunar

    Lunar New Member

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    (Wise Haven;24645)
    That quote used above was from me in a thread about Satanism.You have quoted me totally out of context..............this reference had nothing to do about homosexuality but about the risk of being sexually abused whilst participating in satanic ritual. There wasn't even an implied disapproval of homosexuality. "Fruitcake" was actually a reference to someones warped mentality.If you look at my other posts here you will find I am probably the only person here that does not have a negative opinion of "Other sexuality"In fact a lot of my posts educating people about the real nature of Homosexual and Transgendered people have been deleted because they are seen as controversial. Personally I believe people do not have choice about their sexual or gender orientation.I would appreciate an apology (before this gets deleted) Please :naughty:
    I apologize, it seems I had misinterpreted you. Where I come from, "fruitcake" is a derogatory term for a homosexual man. I really hadn't ever heard it used in the context you are describing.But again, I'm very sorry. Just an issue of communication, I suppose.
     
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