I see alot of tension and debate between Catholics and Protestants ranging from basic beleifs in Jesus the Christ, church history and doctrine. Are we not all saved by the grace and mercy of God?
Why are there so much animosity between Catholics and Protestants?
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How should I know what fully goes on in other people's hearts and minds?
All I can do is share with you from God's Word.
All I can do is share with you from God's Word.
I believe the reason people who call themselves Christian fight is because most have allowed man to teach him or her about God.
Christians now believe that one needs to go to a seminary to learn about God.
The Catholic Church was the only Church and the Holy Spirit led it, first as individuals, and then as a body of Christians.
Satan some how allowed Constantine the Great to be able to con the Christian people into believing that they no longer had to believe that Jesus said: (Matthew 5:39) “You have learnt how it was said: ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ But I say this to you: offer the wicked man no resistance.”
When the Church started following man it became corrupt. This led to the Reformation, and people then started to follow whatever theologian said what he or she wanted to believe.
We were told that the Holy Spirit would teach us everything we need to know about God. Man can’t trust that truth either, so all those who say they are leaders of this or that church are misleading him or her.
(1 John 2:27) “But you have not lost the anointing that he gave you, and you do not need anyone to teach you, the anointing he gave teaches you everything; you are anointed with truth, not a lie, and as it has taught you, so you must stay in him.”
Christians now believe that one needs to go to a seminary to learn about God.
The Catholic Church was the only Church and the Holy Spirit led it, first as individuals, and then as a body of Christians.
Satan some how allowed Constantine the Great to be able to con the Christian people into believing that they no longer had to believe that Jesus said: (Matthew 5:39) “You have learnt how it was said: ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ But I say this to you: offer the wicked man no resistance.”
When the Church started following man it became corrupt. This led to the Reformation, and people then started to follow whatever theologian said what he or she wanted to believe.
We were told that the Holy Spirit would teach us everything we need to know about God. Man can’t trust that truth either, so all those who say they are leaders of this or that church are misleading him or her.
(1 John 2:27) “But you have not lost the anointing that he gave you, and you do not need anyone to teach you, the anointing he gave teaches you everything; you are anointed with truth, not a lie, and as it has taught you, so you must stay in him.”
The Catholic church has accepted so many non-scriptural practices (some that actually appear to run contrary to scripture).
When pointed out to Catholics how unsupported many of those practices/claims are, you receive either the most convoluted explanation or outright hostility at the audacity of even questioning them.
That is the cause of the tension.
When pointed out to Catholics how unsupported many of those practices/claims are, you receive either the most convoluted explanation or outright hostility at the audacity of even questioning them.
That is the cause of the tension.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Protestants have made up the idea that only the Bible is authoritative.....they follow extra-Biblical ideas, but pretend that they do not and love to use the Bible-only standard, which is not Biblical to call everyone but their own division, non-Christian,
-- Just curious as to what document outside the Bible can speak with more authority on Biblical matters...
Nothing in the Bible states that Mary was taken bodily into heaven...yet Catholics say it was so. Just what "authoritative" document do the Catholics have to support this?
Nothing in the Bible stating that Mary did not have sex with Joseph after Jesus was born...yet Catholics say it is so. Again, what "authoritative" document do the Catholics have to support this?
During every single solitary Mass done daily thousands of times around the globe, Catholics state that the bread and wine become the ACTUAL body and blood of Jesus.
What "authoritative" document shows that that is actually the case? The Bible? Nope. Scientific tests of the wine and host after the blessing? Nope.
Just who has the authority to add to/subtract from/change the Bible and what it teaches?
Apparently anyone in the Catholic church hierarchy...
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
The fact is, Jesus is our common bond - it should be sufficient, but for some it is not enough.
Nothing in the Bible stating that Mary did not have sex with Joseph after Jesus was born...yet Catholics say it is so. Again, what "authoritative" document do the Catholics have to support this?
I thought Matthew 1:25 referred to this. No?
I thought Matthew 1:25 referred to this. No?
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
The same authority that assembled the Bible you believe supersedes the Church.....
The same authority that decided to worship on Sunday
The same authority that decided to meet as a church
The same authority that Paul talks about
The same authority that protected the Bible from heresy, until Luther decided to open the door to 10 thousands denominations, rabid individualism ad relativism.
Thanks for asking
The Bible does indeed say that Mary and Joseph didn't "consummate" until after the birth of Jesus, Dajoshe...but the Catholic church says that even after Mary gave birth to Jesus, she never had sex with Joseph.
From the Catholic Mass:
"I confess to almighty God, and to you, my brothers and sisters, that I have sinned through my own fault, in my thoughts and in my words, in what I have done and what I have failed to do; and I ask blessed Mary, ever virgin,all the angels and saints, and you, my brothers and sisters, to pray for me to the Lord our God. "
I remember being told repeatedly while in Catholic school that that was the case. Apparently, Matt 1:25, at least in their eyes, isn't entirely accurate.
-- So you're saying there ISN'T any "authoritative" documentation that supercedes the Bible. Thanks for clearing that up. ;)
Please note the scripture that Dajoshe put forth and be honest enough to admit that Catholic doctrine goes against Biblical teaching. Hope springs eternal.
I still marvel at the fact that someone can teach that Mary was taken up into heaven bodily, even with ZERO supporting evidence or documentation. Amazing.
.
From the Catholic Mass:
"I confess to almighty God, and to you, my brothers and sisters, that I have sinned through my own fault, in my thoughts and in my words, in what I have done and what I have failed to do; and I ask blessed Mary, ever virgin,all the angels and saints, and you, my brothers and sisters, to pray for me to the Lord our God. "
I remember being told repeatedly while in Catholic school that that was the case. Apparently, Matt 1:25, at least in their eyes, isn't entirely accurate.
-- So you're saying there ISN'T any "authoritative" documentation that supercedes the Bible. Thanks for clearing that up. ;)
Please note the scripture that Dajoshe put forth and be honest enough to admit that Catholic doctrine goes against Biblical teaching. Hope springs eternal.
I still marvel at the fact that someone can teach that Mary was taken up into heaven bodily, even with ZERO supporting evidence or documentation. Amazing.
.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Keep dreaming foreigner....I remember how scary it was to place all my trust in a document that was assembled by the very church I was told was heretical....I am praying for you brother.
Appreciate your prayers...and the fact you cannot support your position.
Compare:
I confess to almighty God, and to you, my brothers and sisters, that I have sinned through my own fault, in my thoughts and in my words, in what I have done and what I have failed to do; and I ask blessed Mary, ever virgin,all the angels and saints, and you, my brothers and sisters, to pray for me to the Lord our God."
to:
"but knew her not until she had given birth to a son. And he called his name Jesus. " - Matt 1:25
-- For everyone other than Aspen, please note that unsupported Catholic positions such as this are the reason there is little agreement between Catholics and Protestants.
- Mary being taken up to heaven bodily while still alive.
- Mary never ever having sex with anyone (contrary to Scripture)
- Praying to Mary and other dead Christians
- Bread and wine changing to the actual body and blood of Christ (Man, just how many times DOES our savior have to sacrifice His body for us?)
- Infallibility of the Pope (the book "The Bad Popes" by E.R. Chamberlin details how ridiculous that claim is)
- Purgatory (and praying for those in Purgatory to shorten their time there)
- Indulgences. The fact that the Pope supported this and it was changed later is another nail in the "Infallibility" coffin.
These are all either not supported by the Bible or contradicted by the Bible.
According to Catholics, though, that doesn't matter. Man's unsubstantiated opinions count more than God's inspired Word.
Compare:
I confess to almighty God, and to you, my brothers and sisters, that I have sinned through my own fault, in my thoughts and in my words, in what I have done and what I have failed to do; and I ask blessed Mary, ever virgin,all the angels and saints, and you, my brothers and sisters, to pray for me to the Lord our God."
to:
"but knew her not until she had given birth to a son. And he called his name Jesus. " - Matt 1:25
-- For everyone other than Aspen, please note that unsupported Catholic positions such as this are the reason there is little agreement between Catholics and Protestants.
- Mary being taken up to heaven bodily while still alive.
- Mary never ever having sex with anyone (contrary to Scripture)
- Praying to Mary and other dead Christians
- Bread and wine changing to the actual body and blood of Christ (Man, just how many times DOES our savior have to sacrifice His body for us?)
- Infallibility of the Pope (the book "The Bad Popes" by E.R. Chamberlin details how ridiculous that claim is)
- Purgatory (and praying for those in Purgatory to shorten their time there)
- Indulgences. The fact that the Pope supported this and it was changed later is another nail in the "Infallibility" coffin.
These are all either not supported by the Bible or contradicted by the Bible.
According to Catholics, though, that doesn't matter. Man's unsubstantiated opinions count more than God's inspired Word.
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And I think that there were seven church ages very unique in doctrine and worship.
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/13598-the-seven-church-ages-per-gods-word/
So the problems are that most church denominations within a church age thinks that they have the corner on everything. My dad dates a Lutheran gal who believes within all her heart that only Lutherans will make it to heaven. In which I don't argue with her. Its only the Holy Spirit who can help us to understand that everything we have learned and believed in our lifetime may not be true.
In which I only consider those of the Sardisean church age protestants. The rest of us don't care.
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/13598-the-seven-church-ages-per-gods-word/
So the problems are that most church denominations within a church age thinks that they have the corner on everything. My dad dates a Lutheran gal who believes within all her heart that only Lutherans will make it to heaven. In which I don't argue with her. Its only the Holy Spirit who can help us to understand that everything we have learned and believed in our lifetime may not be true.
In which I only consider those of the Sardisean church age protestants. The rest of us don't care.
Individuals make it to heaven. Not denominations.
There are scores of Catholics, Lutherans, Methodists, Evangelicals, etc. that are going to heaven.
There are also scores sitting in the pews that aren't.
They will say, "but Lord, we prophecied and healed in your name" but He will say, "I never knew you."
Again, it's the individual heart, not the denomination.
There are scores of Catholics, Lutherans, Methodists, Evangelicals, etc. that are going to heaven.
There are also scores sitting in the pews that aren't.
They will say, "but Lord, we prophecied and healed in your name" but He will say, "I never knew you."
Again, it's the individual heart, not the denomination.
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The Pope himself said that...
"As for the novelties we can discover in this message today", he went on, "we may see that attacks against the Pope and the Church do not only come from outside; rather, the sufferings of the Church come from inside the Church, from the sin that exists in the Church. This was always common knowledge, but today we see it in truly terrifying form: the greatest persecution of the Church does not come from external enemies, but is born of sin within the Church. Thus the Church has a profound need to relearn penance, to accept purification, to learn forgiveness but also the need for justice." - May 11, 2010
http://catholicism.about.com/b/2010/05/14/the-third-secret-of-fatima-and-clerical-sexual-abuse.htm
So in the words of the Pope himself our greatest enemies are those within our own churches. There are no external enemies.
"As for the novelties we can discover in this message today", he went on, "we may see that attacks against the Pope and the Church do not only come from outside; rather, the sufferings of the Church come from inside the Church, from the sin that exists in the Church. This was always common knowledge, but today we see it in truly terrifying form: the greatest persecution of the Church does not come from external enemies, but is born of sin within the Church. Thus the Church has a profound need to relearn penance, to accept purification, to learn forgiveness but also the need for justice." - May 11, 2010
http://catholicism.about.com/b/2010/05/14/the-third-secret-of-fatima-and-clerical-sexual-abuse.htm
So in the words of the Pope himself our greatest enemies are those within our own churches. There are no external enemies.
I would venture that anyone within the church who leads others to believe things that are either not supported by scripture, or even run contrary to scripture, are indeed the greatest enemies.
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Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, - Hebrews 12:1
Not only what is taught but also what is experienced. As the scriptures attest... Sin is something that easily besets the best of us!:unsure:
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