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Featured Why Baptize a Baby?

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by GodsGrace, Nov 20, 2018.

  1. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    Some denominations baptize babies.

    Catholics
    Orthodox - Eastern and Oriental
    Reformed
    Lutheran
    Anglicans
    Presbytarians
    Methodists
    Nazarenes

    source: Infant baptism - Wikipedia

    John the Baptist baptized adults that wanted to have their sins forgiven.
    Some denominations baptize adults as an outward sign of an inner change.

    I speak only for the Catholic denomination here.
    It's very interesting as to why they baptize babies as soon as possible.
    It has to do with the imputation of sin. The CC did not always believe in baby baptism
    in an official way. It was explained why babies were supposed to be baptized by Augustine of Hippo, 354 - 430 AD, he was the Bishop of Hippo (Africa) and was considered to be a very respected church theologian.

    Believing that the grace of Christwas indispensable to human freedom, he helped formulate the doctrine of original sin

    source: Augustine of Hippo - Wikipedia

    IF the sin of Adam is imputed to all humans, perhaps babies SHOULD BE baptized.
    IF the sin of Adam is not imputed to all humans, then why baptize babies?

    Is Adam's sin imputed to all?
    If so, wouldn't it be necessary to baptize a baby?

    Revelation 21:27

    and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.
     
  2. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    The sin of Adam was imputed to NO ONE -- not even Eve or the Serpent. Certainly not to the human race.

    But the CONSEQUENCES of Adam s disobedience -- the curse of sin and death -- came upon the entire human race. See Romans 5.

    As to baptizing babies, it is a false practice, since the Bible makes it perfectly clear that baptism is for BELIEVERS ONLY.
     
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  3. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    Catholicism says that if not baptized they will go into an infant purgatory.

    No one who has not reached the age of consent has since forgiven. They are innocents.
     
  4. Jane_Doe22

    Jane_Doe22 Well-Known Member

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    Christianity is a place with a lot of different believes. Baptism is one of those diverse topics.

    The big foundational question is: *why* should a person be baptized?
    Some people believe that baptism is to wash away the results Adam's actions.
    Some people believe that baptism is to wash away that person's sins and they accept Christ.
    Some people believe that baptism has no consequences itself, rather is an optional outward sign of an inward change (with a wide variety of degrees how optional it is).

    Past the foundational *why* you should be baptized, then you get into when, how, and by whom --- questions which all involve the why.


    As for my beliefs: a person should get baptized as a believer who is accepting Christ. Christ commanded believers to be baptized, it's an act of obedience, and it's washes away that person's sins. It has nothing to do with washing away something you're not responsible for.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2018
  5. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    Water baptism is an outward declaration of the baptism of the holy spirit for salvation. It is a sign only.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2018
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  6. Frank Lee

    Frank Lee Well-Known Member

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    The following is from a thread I began on July 4, 2017..."Baptizing...babies"!?

    I find my spirit agitated whenever I see a video of a baby being "baptized". That is being sprinkled with water or a water pistol filled with Holy water or some other method. Unless the baby has a good bath out of the ordeal the entire affair has been an exercise in spiritual futility. Babies are tiny little things but the error of calling their sprinkling a baptism is not tiny but large. It's only one thorn on the thornbush of dead religion.

    Mark 16:16 (NKJV)
    He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

    First you have to believe. I'd be greatly amazed should an infant believe let alone be able to express that belief.

    Supposedly mature men in the glamorous robes of their office doing what? A traditional ritual having nothing to do with salvation. They really think that it's beneficial, scriptural which completely stupefies me. They are not even aware that they themselves are unredeemed and are passing on their dead traditions to another generation.

    One of the strongest words Jesus ever spoke to me was one night as I prayed outside up in a cleared out spot on our place. I'd been praying for sometime and was about to go back to the house. As I went to leave He spoke and said so powerfully in my spirit "EVERY GENERATION I HAVE TO BEGIN ALL OVER AGAIN". It's so true. Every new batch of babies has never heard of God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, sin or anything having to do with eternal life. God's work begins again and He must work through new generations of believers.

    My baptism to me was a serious affair several months after I had been visited by Jesus, saved then baptized in the Holy Spirit. This gave me time to learn more about it. My dear brother Jimmy just a few years younger, was baptized with me. It was a cold winter's day and we had to break ice an inch thick on those Arkansas River backwaters. My wife told me I had a visible glow when I came home. That's the way a baptism should be. The glow, less the icy waters of course.

    At what point did these infants make their profession of faith? Why would a rational adult be intimidated by the traditions of their denomination so that the Scriptures of the Bible are tread under foot? Once again tradition trumping the word of God. How many infants do we see being baptized in the new testament? Surely the fear of man brings a snare! Do I make too much of this practice? Which part of evil are we to ignore?

    Proverbs 29:25 (NKJV)
    The fear of man brings a snare,
    But whoever trusts in the Lord shall be safe.

    [​IMG]


    Tevye in fiddler on the roof said it with authority, "TRADITION"! That's it. He was Jewish of course but the plague of the fear of men sees no cultural or spiritual lines. Peer pressure is a powerful influence. Even deadly. The spirit gives life the letter kills.

    I realize that the men who perform such acts are not born again Christians but labor under the false beliefs of their religion. The blind sprinkling the newly arrived. God said it first;

    Isaiah 29:13 (NKJV)

    Therefore the Lord said:

    “Inasmuch as these people draw near with their mouths
    And honor Me with their lips,
    But have removed their hearts far from Me,
    And their fear toward Me is taught by the commandment of men,

    The ignorant and unsaved ministers of these dead denominations practice the same empty rituals on so called adults. My unsaved mother in law, now deceased, was "baptized" by her unsaved Methodist pastor by dipping a rose into Methodist holy water and spring her with it. Now, isn't that just about the sweetest thing you ever heard of? Land o' Goshen! Frighteningly, an entire building full of ignorant people sat and nodded their approval. No one was benefitted of course. My wonderful wife continued to minister to the poor ignorant woman and a change was seen in her before death. We can only hope she really met Jesus.


    After being childless for 14 long lonely years Jesus saved me, baptized me in the Holy Spirit, gave me the gift of tongues and began to speak to my wife and I regarding the son He was going to send us. We were amazed and excited. My wife's body was allergic to my seed and killed it on contact. The doctors could do nothing but Jesus could. Many afflictions awaited us before God's promise was fulfilled but certainly it was. We met much ridicule, unbelief and cold indifference but Jesus my wife and I had the last laugh. One thing He said to me was so great, "the mouths of the scoffs will be shut at the telling" and they were! On October 9th,1979 the Holy Spirit told me Martha was pregnant. The lab agreed. Nathan, our promise from God, was born on June 25,1980.

    [​IMG]

    Nathan is a spirit filled Christian, minister and student of Israel. God did good!

    As our children were born we dedicated each and every one of them to the God who sent them, Jesus is His first name. They were not sprinkled, spritzed, dunked, squirter, deluged or drizzled. They were anointed by their father - me - with oil and prayed for. Also by the elders of our church. They all came to know Jesus at an early age and after that were baptized in the good old Biblical John the Baptist method of going under then coming back up.

    After experiencing all of this and cheerfully pouring our lives into our God given children, it's impossible to sit and be silent. They casually with non-existant authority say that this is a directive of the savior.

    [​IMG]


    Our surviving children serve God to this day. Joanna, born after Nathan, became a Christian at about five years of age and there was no doubt she knew Him! She died at fifteen thanks to a drinking driver. But glory to God we'll all be rejoined for eternity it in the place He's made for us.

    [​IMG]

    Joanna's last Christmas, December 1996.

    As I have opportunity I will denounce the ways of religion and dead denominations that deceive, stumble and lead astray multitudes. If our government isn't able to have the babies aborted and stand up for the women that kill them, then dead denominations lead those children astray from the gospel of Jesus Christ. It's way too late in my journey to nod in agreement with things I know are not right just to smooth things over.

    Psalms 94:16 (NKJV)
    Who will rise up for me against the evildoers?
    Who will stand up for me against the workers of iniquity?

    Evil doers? But they're dressed so nice, so clean and have such wonderful manners. The things they say are so sweet! Satan never comes as a snarling rabid beast but as an angel of light. Speaking the truth in love doesn't mean we have to coo like doves. That's not love.


    Psalm 55:21 KJVS
    The words of his mouth were smoother than butter, but war was in his heart: his words were softer than oil, yet were they drawn swords.

    If the truth is an affront to someone's actions then it will cause anger and resentment to rise up in them every time. Hopefully the false teachers that practice these things against the word of God will be able to see the light of the gospel and be convicted and saved. Believers must be willing to speak out against error and leave their place of silent anonymity.
     
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  7. quietthinker

    quietthinker Well-Known Member

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    anybody with dirty diapers needs a good dunking!
     
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  8. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    NONSENSE.

    Show me ONE verse that makes the claim that Baptism is “ONLY” for believers. The fact is that the Bible is SILENT on the matter.

    The ENTIRE households of Cornelius, the Philippian Jailer an Stephanas were baptized based on the faith of the HEAD of the household. “Households” have old and youngadults, small children – and YES, even BABIES.

    The Early Church Fathers stated in NO uncertain terms that Infant Baptism was a practiced handed down by the APOSTLES themselves . . .

    Irenaeus
    He [Jesus] came to save all through himself – all, I say, who through him are reborn in God; INFANTS, and children, and youths, and old men. Therefore he passed through every age, becoming an INFANT for INFANTS, sanctifying INFANTS; a child for children, sanctifying those who are of that age . . . [so that] he might be the perfect teacher in all things, perfect not only in respect to the setting forth of truth, perfect also in respect to relative age (Against Heresies 2:22:4 [A.D. 189]).

    Hippolytus
    Where there is no scarcity of water the stream shall flow through the baptismal font or pour into it from above; but if water is scarce, whether on a constant condition or on occasion, then use whatever water is available. Let them remove their clothing. Baptize first the children, and if they can speak for themselves let them do so. Otherwise, let their parents or other relatives speak for them (The Apostolic Tradition 21:16 [A.D.215]).

    Origen
    The Church received from the APOSTLES the tradition of giving baptism even to INFANTS. The APOSLES, to whom were committed the secrets of divine sacraments, knew there is in everyone innate strains of original sin, which must be washed away through water and the Spirit (Commentaries on Romans 5:9 [A.D. 248]).

    Cyprian of Carthage
    As to what pertains to the case of INFANTS: You [Fidus] said that they ought not to be baptized within the second or third day after their birth, that the old law of circumcision must be taken into consideration, and that you did not think that one should be baptized and sanctified within the eighth day after his birth. In our council it seemed to us far otherwise. No one agreed to the course which you thought should be taken. Rather, we all judge that the mercy and grace of God ought to be denied to no man born" (Letters 64:2 [A.D. 253]).
     
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  9. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    The Church teaches NO such nonsense.
    This is yet another one of your moronic LIES because you simply DON’T know what the Catholic Church teaches.

    Ignorance is NOT bliss . . .
     
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  10. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, I meant infant limbo.

    The Limbo of the Infants
     
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  11. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    FIRST BELIEVING, THEN BAPTISM
    And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mk 16:15,16)

    FIRST BELIEVING THEN BAPTISM
    Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.(Acts 2:41)

    FIRST BELIEVING THEN BAPTISM

    And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. (Acts 8:36-38)

    FIRST BELIEVING THEN BAPTISM

    And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway. (Acts 16:31-33)
     
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  12. Jane_Doe22

    Jane_Doe22 Well-Known Member

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    I do very much agree that this is a topic that the Bible alone doesn't cover pointedly to quell the long discussions on the matter, instead we're left with the dueling interpretations scenario. Part of the reason I'm not sola scriptura. Now, I'm not Catholic and have differently beliefs on authority/baptism/etc than Catholics. But I will agree on not being sola scriptura.
     
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  13. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    BreadOfLife said:
    Show me ONE verse that makes the claim that Baptism is “ONLY” for believers.
    FIRST BELIEVING, THEN BAPTISM

    Every verse where someone is what are baptized they already have been baptized by the holy spirit. Already saved.

    There's no value in water baptism to the unsaved.

    The bottom line on catholic baptism is baptized into the catholic church.

     
  14. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    Setting aside all of your self-congratulatory and sanctimonious nonsense – can you show me as SINGLE verse of Scripture that shows John the Baptist fully immersing ANYBODY in the River Jordan?

    As a matter of fact – there is not ONE verse describing the process of Baptism in the ENTIRE NT.

    What we DO have are testimonies of the Early Church on the matter – and they INCLUDE immersion, pouring and sprinkling. By the way - the prophecy about Baptism ini Ezek. 36:25-27 refers to “sprinkling”.

    Finally – as to your mother in law – it’s not YOUR call to say whether she was “Saved” or not. That is for GOD alone to know. YOUR sinful presumption is an abomination before the Lord.

    All of that being said – I sincerely HOPE that God has mercy on your soul for having judged so harshly the soul of those around you and you get to be reunited with your precious daughter in Heaven.
     
  15. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    TRANSLATION:
    "I CAN'T show you a verse because it doesn't exist."

    That's what I thought . . .
     
  16. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    That is only part of my post. What about the rest?
     
  17. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    That’s great – those people believed and were baptized.
    HOWEVER – that’s NOT what I asked you to provide.

    I asked you guys to provide me with ONE single verse that states one MUST believe before being Baptized.

    Acts 16:30-34
    Then he (the Philippian Jailer) brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, YOU AND YOUR HOUSEHOLD.” And they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house. And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their wounds; and he was BAPTIZED at once, HE AND ALL HIS FAMILY.
     
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  18. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    What "rest"??
     
  19. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    What a dodge!

    BreadOfLife said:
    Show me ONE verse that makes the claim that Baptism is “ONLY” for believers.
    FIRST BELIEVING, THEN BAPTISM

    Every verse where someone is what are baptized they already have been baptized by the holy spirit. Already saved.

    There's no value in water baptism to the unsaved.

    The bottom line is catholic baptism is baptized into the catholic church.
     
  20. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    Utter NONSENSE.

    In Acts 8, the Ethiopian Eunuch was reading Scripture with Phillip and asked to be Baptized.
    NO mention of his being "SAVED" before his Baptism.

    Get your facts straight . . .
     
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