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Why Did Jesus Say We Must Be Born Again?

Discussion in 'NonChristian Help Forum' started by TRU434, Nov 3, 2018.

  1. Marymog

    Marymog Well-Known Member

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    Your welcome....

    I noticed you have been unable to use scripture to refute anything I have said....
     
  2. Ezra

    Ezra Well-Known Member

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    i noticed your still blind ..what am i to refute ?
    20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

    21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen. 1 timothy 6 mainly the vain babblings :eek::rolleyes:
     
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  3. Marymog

    Marymog Well-Known Member

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    Thank you Ezra.

    Since I am unable to understand exactly what you are saying or trying to say I am going to have to end this conversation.

    Mary
     
  4. Ezra

    Ezra Well-Known Member

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    praise the Lord
     
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  5. Reggie Belafonte

    Reggie Belafonte Well-Known Member

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    One is lost if you are not Born Again.
     
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  6. breathoflife

    breathoflife New Member

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    The Lord told them when they took the forbidden fruit ‘dying you will die.’ This meant that sin killed the body which would die later and our spirit/soul died then. None of these could be redeemed from the sin the permeates body, soul and spirit. This when we find that the Grace of God gave me the blessing of dying to these sin infested death traps. In place of this we are given a spiritual rebirth. Now the old man we wait for our time of freedom when the body of death the Lord frees me from forever.
     
  7. The wind

    The wind Member

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    Jesus said we must be born again because the world is in the old man that sinned. To be baptized into Christ by a person with the Spirit of Christ and in the name of Christ is to be baptized into the new man which is without sin and keeps the Commandments of God. And those who keep the Commandments of God have eternal life.
     
  8. Steve Owen

    Steve Owen Active Member

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  9. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    i'm not waiting for squat wadr :)
    ntmy though, mark here, hi
     
  10. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    remember the day you founded the world?
     
  11. Marymog

    Marymog Well-Known Member

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  12. Steve Owen

    Steve Owen Active Member

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    My point is that there are several texts which refer to the New Birth and none of them mention baptism.
     
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  13. Marymog

    Marymog Well-Known Member

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    Thank you....some of your references are questionable about referring to new birth and I take with umbrage.


    Are you suggesting that those verses cancel out John 3:5?

    I don't understand what you are trying to convey here....
     
  14. Ezra

    Ezra Well-Known Member

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    lol one thing we have in common i dont understand you
     
  15. Steve Owen

    Steve Owen Active Member

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    John 3:5 does not cancel out the verses I quoted any more than those verses cancel out John 3:5. What we have to do is to reconcile the verses with each other, which is not hard to do because John 3:5 does not mention baptism. It is an unwarranted assumption that because water is mentioned, it must mean baptism.
     
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  16. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    ezackly! :D
     
  17. Marymog

    Marymog Well-Known Member

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    Well, one thing you and I don't have in common is trolling.....;)
     
  18. Marymog

    Marymog Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Steve,

    Sooooo what is the "water" spoken of in John 3:5? The Spirit part is easy to figure out.

    Bible Study Mary
     
  19. Steve Owen

    Steve Owen Active Member

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    So if the expression Water and Spirit does not mean baptism, what does it mean? As usual, our clue lies in our text: ‘Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do you not know these things?”’ (John 3:10). What our Lord is saying is that if Nicodemus was such a great Old Testament teacher, he would know what He was talking about instead of being so totally confused and dumbfounded. Therefore there must be some reference in the Hebrew Scriptures to the New Birth and to Water and Spirit which would have helped Nicodemus to understand; otherwise our Lord’s rebuke would have been unfair. With this in mind let us consider the following verses:-

    ‘For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land. Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take your heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them’ (Ezek 36:24ff).

    “Behold, You desire truth in the inward parts, and in the hidden part You will make me to know wisdom. Purge [N.I.V., ‘cleanse’] me with hyssop and I shall be clean; wash me and I shall be whiter than snow ……..Hide Your face from my sins, and blot out my iniquities. Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a steadfast spirit within me (Psalm 51:6,7,9,10).

    Here, in these two texts, we surely get a preview of the work of God, the Holy Spirit, in the New Birth. It is a two-fold work of water and Spirit: an inward cleansing from sin and idolatry, and a renewal of the heart and spirit for future obedience. That it is a spiritual cleansing rather than baptism that is meant in these passages is indicated by the mention of hyssop in Psalm 51. This is not some ancient Hebrew soap, as I first thought when I read the Psalm as a very young Christian, but rather the sprig of a plant. On the day of the Passover, the Israelites were instructed (Exod.12:22) to dip the hyssop in the blood of the slain Passover lamb and sprinkle it on the lintel and the doorposts of their houses. Therefore, to be cleansed with hyssop is to be washed in the blood of the Lamb (Heb.9:11ff; Rev. 7:14). No outward ablution could ever cleanse us from moral ‘filthiness and idolatry’. We need a cleansing which works from within.

    In the New Testament, one gets an inkling of this two-fold process in verses such as 1Corinthians 6:11 or Ephesians 5:26, but the clearest expression is found in Titus 3:3-5. Here Paul has been telling Titus not to be too harsh to the Cretan converts, but to show a little gentleness and humility. ‘For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another…..’ that’s what Paul and Titus were like before they were born again. ‘…..But when the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us through the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit. What is the nature of the New Birth? It is a birth of Water and Spirit; the washing away of indwelling sin and corruption, and renewal by God, the Holy Spirit.

    This is obviously a most profound change. Paul writes, “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new (2Cor. 5:17). What has happened? A new principle of life has taken hold. The Holy Spirit’s work has often been likened to that of a horticulturalist who wishes to grow cultured pears on a wild pear tree. What he does (4) is to make a cut in the stem of the wild tree and bind into the cut, a shoot of a cultured pear, such as a Conference. He then finds that the tree will start to produce both wild and cultured pears, but if he is diligent to cut off every wild shoot that grows, he will eventually have a pear tree that produces nothing but delicious cultured pears. The principle is somewhat the same for new Christians; they have this new life within them, but this competes with the remnant of their old selves and they have to suppress that old nature whenever it rears its ugly head so that the new nature which the Holy Spirit has implanted may flourish. Pause for a moment and read Colossians 3, reflecting particularly upon verse 5.

    From my blog post The New Birth (4) Its Nature It's important to note that the New Birth is a spiritual birth. 'That which is born of the Spirit is spirit;' not 'That which is born of waterandspirit is spirit.'
     
  20. Marymog

    Marymog Well-Known Member

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    Hi Steve,

    From whom did you learn this theory? Martin Marprelate? What you are preaching is a 500 year old teaching. I prefer to stick to the 2,000 year teaching of The Church and Scripture:

    The Bible uses baptismal imagery when Moses delivers Israel from the tyranny of Egypt through the waters of the Red Sea (Ex. 14; 1 Cor. 10:2). The Levitical priests were cleansed by the washing of baptismal waters held in a laver before they entered the Tabernacle (Ex. 30:17–21). The Syrian general Naaman was healed through baptism (dipping seven times) in the waters of the Jordan river (2 Kgs. 5). God’s promise through Ezekiel pointed to the cleansing work of water baptism (Ezek. 36:25–27).

    As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him (Jesus model to us for baptism from above/with water).

    in the days of Noah during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water. Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the Resurrection of Jesus Christ.”

    Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    See how since the beginning baptism = water = Holy Spirit = cleansing?

    Bible study Mary
     
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