Why did Jesus tell the thief he would be with Him in paradise that same day?

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Adventageous

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@quitethinker talks about the "comma"...........here you may see it is irrelevant.
...
Gill was simply mistaken (upon several points), and instead of citing a man, why not see how scripture in all surrounding context applies the puncutation, and see that there is a consistent pattern, until the passage of Luke and its missing comma (these were cited earlier):

Luk_23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day[,] shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Jhn. 1:51, 3:3,5,11, 5:19,24,25, 6:26,32,47,53, 8:34,51,58, 10:1,7, 12:24, 13:16,20,21,38, 14:12, 16:20,23, 21:18; Mat. 5:18,26, 6:2,5,16, 8:10, 10:15,23,42, 13:17

Joh 1:51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.​
Joh 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Joh 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
Joh 6:26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.
Joh 6:32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
Joh 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
Joh 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
Joh 8:51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Joh 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
Joh 10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
Joh 12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
Joh 13:16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.
Joh 13:20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
Joh 13:21 When Jesus had thus said, he was troubled in spirit, and testified, and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me.
Joh 13:38 Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, The cock shall not crow, till thou hast denied me thrice.
Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Joh 16:20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy.
Joh 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.
Joh 21:18 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not.
 

Adventageous

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@quitethinker talks about the "comma"...........here you may see it is irrelevant.

...
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Mat 5:26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

Mat 6:2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

Mat 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

Mat 6:16 Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

Mat 8:10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

Mat 10:15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

Mat 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Mat 10:42 And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward.

Mat 13:17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

The consistent pattern is "verily (or verily, verily)" followed by a comma (punctuational pause), followed by another part of the statement, followed by another punctuation (comma, semicolon or period), and sometimes followed by a latter part of the statement.

[1] Verily (or Verily, Verily)​
[2] puncutation (",")​
[3] statement continues "... 123 ..."​
[4] punctuation (",", ";", ".")​
[5] most times (27/34) statement continues "... xyz ..."​

This means, in Luke 23:43, a comma is simply missing after the word "to day". The context requires the comma to be placed (understood) after the word "to day", unless we would see scripture argue with itself, in that Jesus had not yet ascended to Heaven, until 3 days (inclusive) later (Jhn 20:17). The immediate context of Luke 23:42, shows that the penitent thief said, "Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom." This does not take place until the second Advent of Jesus Christ. Jesus promised the penitent thief "to day" (the very day the penitent thief believed) that he would be resurrected and taken back to Heaven (Paradise) with Jesus. The comma is not irrelevant as you suggest. Obviously the placement of a comma changes the emphasis and meaning. As for other language texts, they cannot dictate how the koine Greek itself reads in known mss. A translation into other languages can involve biases, though they shouldn't.
 

Johann

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Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Mat 5:26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

Mat 6:2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

Mat 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

Mat 6:16 Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

Mat 8:10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

Mat 10:15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

Mat 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Mat 10:42 And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward.

Mat 13:17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

The consistent pattern is "verily (or verily, verily)" followed by a comma (punctuational pause), followed by another part of the statement, followed by another punctuation (comma, semicolon or period), and sometimes followed by a latter part of the statement.

[1] Verily (or Verily, Verily)​
[2] puncutation (",")​
[3] statement continues "... 123 ..."​
[4] punctuation (",", ";", ".")​
[5] most times (27/34) statement continues "... xyz ..."​

This means, in Luke 23:43, a comma is simply missing after the word "to day". The context requires the comma to be placed (understood) after the word "to day", unless we would see scripture argue with itself, in that Jesus had not yet ascended to Heaven, until 3 days (inclusive) later (Jhn 20:17). The immediate context of Luke 23:42, shows that the penitent thief said, "Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom." This does not take place until the second Advent of Jesus Christ. Jesus promised the penitent thief "to day" (the very day the penitent thief believed) that he would be resurrected and taken back to Heaven (Paradise) with Jesus. The comma is not irrelevant as you suggest. Obviously the placement of a comma changes the emphasis and meaning. As for other language texts, they cannot dictate how the koine Greek itself reads in known mss. A translation into other languages can involve biases, though they shouldn't.
I am not here for major disagreements.

Today ... - It is not probable that the dying thief expected that his prayer would be so soon answered. It is rather to be supposed that he looked to some “future” period when the Messiah would rise or would return; but Jesus told him that his prayer would be answered that very day, implying, evidently, that it would be “immediately” at death. This is the more remarkable, as those who were crucified commonly lingered for several days on the cross before they died; but Jesus foresaw that measures would be taken to “hasten” their death, and assured him that “that” day he should receive an answer to his prayer and be with him in his kingdom.
JFB

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σήμερον
sḗmeron; adv., in the Attic dialect tḗmeron, from tḗ hēméra (tḗ [dat. fem. of ho {G3588}, the]; hēméra [G2250], on the day, to-day). Today, this day.

(I) Particularly (Mat_6:11, Mat_6:30; Mat_16:3; Mat_21:28; Mat_27:19; Mar_14:30; Luk_2:11; Luk_5:26; Luk_12:28; Luk_19:5, Luk_19:9; Luk_22:34; Luk_23:43; Luk_24:21; Act_27:33; Heb_13:8; Jas_4:13).

In Luk_13:32-33, "today and tomorrow," meaning now and in the future. See Sept.: Gen_4:14; Gen_40:7; Exo_16:25.

With the art. hē (G3588) as adj. tḗs sḗmeron (tḗs, gen. of hē [G3588]) implying hēméra (G2250), day, meaning this very day (Act_19:40); with hēméra (G2250), day, meaning this very day (Mat_11:23; Mat_27:8; Mat_28:15; Rom_11:8, "unto this day," until the present time, until now; 2Co_3:14, "until this day").
(II) At this time, now (Luk_4:21; Act_4:9; Act_13:33; Act_22:3; Act_24:21; Act_26:2, Act_26:29; Heb_1:5; Heb_3:7, Heb_3:13, Heb_3:15; Heb_4:7; Heb_5:5; 2Co_3:15. See also Deu_1:39; 1Sa_12:17).
Syn.: nuní (G3570), just now, momentarily; ḗdē (G2235), already; árti (G737), just now.
Ant.: aúrion (G839), tomorrow; chthés (G5504), yesterday; pálai (G3819), formerly; próteron (G4386), previously; hústeron (G5305), afterward, last of all.

Also, I don't see problematic issues with Gill, after all, we are looking for truth.

In the passage, today means today, not in the future, not after a while, but Today....You, not Universalism...meta emou

Jesus rewarded his faith with the promise that that very day, they would be together in Paradise. Paradise is the same as the third heaven (2Co_12:2, 2Co_12:4), and means the dwelling place of God. Today—what speed! With Me—what company! In Paradise—what happiness! Charles R. Erdman writes:
This story reveals the truth to us that salvation is conditioned upon repentance and faith. However, it contains other important messages also. It declares that salvation is independent of sacraments. The thief had never been baptized, nor had he partaken of the Lord's Supper. ... He did in fact boldly profess his faith in the presence of a hostile crowd and amid the taunts and jeers of rulers and soldiers, yet he was saved without any formal rites. It is further evident that salvation is independent of good works. ... It is also seen that there is no “sleep of the soul.” The body may sleep, but consciousness exists after death. Again it is evident that there is no “purgatory.” Out of a life of sin and shame, the penitent robber passed immediately into a state of blessedness. Again it may be remarked that salvation is not universal. There were two robbers; only one was saved. Last of all it may be noted that the very essence of the joy which lies beyond death consists in personal communion with Christ. The heart of the promise to the dying thief was this: “Thou shalt be with me.” This is our blessed assurance, that to depart is “to be with Christ” which is “very far better.”
From Jesus Christ's side one person may go to heaven and another to hell. Which side of the cross are you on?
 
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FactsPlease

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Jesus said He would be 3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth following His crucifixion in Matthew 12:40

For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth

But Jesus also said to the thief on the cross "today you will be with me in paradise" Luke 23:43

And Jesus said unto him,Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise

So this seems like a contradiction, doesn't it? Was He in two places at once? The heart of the earth, where Jesus went to preach to the spirits in captivity as per 1 Peter 3:19, is surely not paradise by any stretch of the imagination.

Acts 1:2-3 mentions that He had not yet ascended to heaven, but was with them for 40 days.

...until the day he was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen
After his suffering, he presented himself to them and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God


John 20:17 Jesus tells Mary not to cling to Him for He had not ascended yet.

Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God

Acts 1:9-11 describes precisely when Jesus ascends to heaven.

After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight
They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them.
Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”


Question: why did Jesus tell the thief on the cross that he would be with Him in paradise "today" when scripture clearly teaches that Jesus descended to the realm of the dead and then resurrected to spend 40 days with His disciples?

Answer: The best answer I can think of is simply that God views time differently than we do, I guess.

Can anyone resolve this seeming contradiction?
Commas do not appear in Greek-
And Jesus said unto him,Verily I say unto thee today, shalt thou be with me in paradise .
He was making a firm promise.
 
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tigger 2

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We see The Emphasized Bible by Joseph B. Rotherham also punctuating this scripture to produce the meaning found in the NWT:

“Verily I say unto thee this day: With me shalt thou be in Paradise.”

And the footnote for Luke 23:43 in Lamsa’s translation admits:

“Ancient texts were not punctuated. The comma could come before or after today.”

The Concordant Literal New Testament renders it: "43 And Jesus said to him, 'Verily, to you am I saying today, with Me shall you be in paradise.'"

2001 Translation – An American English Bible: 43 And [Jesus] replied, ‘I tell you this today; you will be with me in Paradise.’

A Critical Lexicon and Concordance to the English and Greek New Testament by E.W.Bullinger, DD., page 811 says:

"'And Jesus said to him, Verily, to thee I say this day, with Me shalt thou be in the Paradise.' The words today being made solemn and emphatic. Thus, instead of a remembrance, when He shall come in...His kingdom, He promises a presence in association (meta, 'with') Himself. And this promise he makes on that very day when he was dying.... Thus we are saved (1) the trouble of explaining why Jesus did not answer the question on its own terms; and (2) the inconvenience of endorsing the punctuation of the [KJV] as inspired; and we also place this passage in harmony with numberless passages in the O.T., such as 'Verily I say unto you this day,' etc.; 'I testify unto you this day.' etc. Deut.vi.6; vii.1; x.13; xi.8;,13,23; xii.13; xix.9; xxvii.4; xxxi.2, etc., where the Septuagint corresponds to Luke xxiii.43."
 

n2thelight

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Jesus said He would be 3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth following His crucifixion in Matthew 12:40

For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth

But Jesus also said to the thief on the cross "today you will be with me in paradise" Luke 23:43

And Jesus said unto him,Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise

So this seems like a contradiction, doesn't it? Was He in two places at once? The heart of the earth, where Jesus went to preach to the spirits in captivity as per 1 Peter 3:19, is surely not paradise by any stretch of the imagination.

Acts 1:2-3 mentions that He had not yet ascended to heaven, but was with them for 40 days.

...until the day he was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen
After his suffering, he presented himself to them and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God


John 20:17 Jesus tells Mary not to cling to Him for He had not ascended yet.

Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God

Acts 1:9-11 describes precisely when Jesus ascends to heaven.

After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight
They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them.
Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”


Question: why did Jesus tell the thief on the cross that he would be with Him in paradise "today" when scripture clearly teaches that Jesus descended to the realm of the dead and then resurrected to spend 40 days with His disciples?

Answer: The best answer I can think of is simply that God views time differently than we do, I guess.

Can anyone resolve this seeming contradiction?
Because at death after Christ defeated death and went to preach to those held captive , the thief was there as well

I Peter 3:19 "By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison,"

These spirits that Christ preached to in prison, where the spirits of the saints that died prior to His death on the cross.
 

quietthinker

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Because at death after Christ defeated death and went to preach to those held captive , the thief was there as well

I Peter 3:19 "By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison,"

These spirits that Christ preached to in prison, where the spirits of the saints that died prior to His death on the cross.
goodness gracious me!
 

Johann

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Gill was simply mistaken (upon several points), and instead of citing a man, why not see how scripture in all surrounding context applies the puncutation, and see that there is a consistent pattern, until the passage of Luke and its missing comma (these were cited earlier):
Was the thief on the cross with Jesus in paradise that very same day?
 

Johann

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." This does not take place until the second Advent of Jesus Christ.
Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

και ειπεν αυτω ο ιησους αμην λεγω σοι σημερον μετ εμου εση εν τω παραδεισω

Luk_23:43. σήμερον: to be connected with what follows, not with λέγω = to-day, as opposed to a boon expected at some future time (which makes for the reading ἐν τῇ β. in Luk_23:42). Or the point may be: this very day, not tomorrow or the next day, as implying speedy release by death, instead of a slow lingering process of dying, as often in cases of crucifixion.
Exp-Gr



To day.

Jesus "promises him immediate and conscious fellowship after death with Christ in Paradise which is a Persian word and is used here not for any supposed intermediate state, but the very bliss of heaven itself" (Robertson, Word Pictures, vol. 2, pp. 286, 287). "A common method of dealing with this text is by altering the punctuation. They would have us read the words, ’Verily I say unto thee today: thou shalt be with me in Paradise.’ But the order of the words in the sentence is all against them. With the emphasis they give it, sēmeron ’today’ should precede the verb. As compare in the Greek, Mat_16:3; Mar_14:30; Luk_19:5; Luk_19:9; Act_13:33; Heb_3:7; Heb_3:15, But, beside this, the Lord is answering a prayer in which a time wherein the thief sought to be remembered was expressed. He had said, ’Lord, remember me when Thou comest in Thy kingdom.’ The Lord says virtually, ’You shall not wait for that: today you shall be with Me.’ This is the simple, intelligible reason for the specification of time: ’Today,’ not when I come merely, ’shalt thou be with me in Paradise’" (F. W. Grant, Facts and Theories as to a Future State, p. 148). Another authority, Dr. Bartlett (Life and Death eternal, p. 205, et seq.) is cited by Rev. D. B. Byers (Physical Death not the Penalty; A Complete Refutation of the Doctrine of Annihilation, pp. 95, 96): "The representation is sometimes made, that, so far as the language is concerned, this is a simple question of punctuation; whether a comma shall be put before or after to-day (semeron). This is a mistake. It is a question of Greek collocation and emphasis. The Greek language does not involve the ambiguity which exists in the English in this respect. It is admitted on both sides that the semeron (to-day) is strongly emphatic… As a strongly emphatic word, according to the usage of the Greek language, its position conclusively determines that it does not qualify the words ’I say,’ but the words ’thou shalt be with me;’ the strongly emphatic word in any clause preceding the less emphatic. In the Greek, it occupies precisely the position to be the most emphatic word of the last clause; but if transferred to the first clause, to be the least emphatic of the whole. And, as both sides admit its highly emphatic character, the case is settled." **Luk_9:31 note. +*Deu_4:26, Jer_42:21, +Mar_14:30, Heb_4:7.
UCRT

So, according to you, the penitent thief is still awaiting the Second Advent of Christ?
Or am I understanding you wrong here?

I also heard members saying that a saint, upon death, are not going to be with the Lord, your take?
J.
 

quietthinker

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So, what are your thoughts on the particular verse?
I think Peter is saying that the Spirit which raised Jesus from the dead is the same Spirit which spoke to the antediluvians by/ through Noah's preaching.

As we might make statements like, 'he's a troubled spirit' or 'these people have the right spirit'. The 'spirits' (a colloquialism) referred to by Peter are the people Noah preached to, the antediluvians; they are in the prison house of sin and rebellion.
 
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Johann

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I think Peter is saying that the Spirit which raised Jesus from the dead is the same Spirit which spoke to the antediluvians by/ through Noah's preaching.

As we might make statements like, 'he's a troubled spirit' or 'these people have the right spirit'. The 'spirits' referred to by Peter are the people Noah preached to, the antediluvians; they are in the prison house of sin and rebellion.
Spot on brother.
The way I understand it.
J.
 

DJT_47

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Paradise is Where the Tree of Life IS.
First, in the Garden of Eden.
Next, in the “comfort” side of Hell. (Also called “Abraham’s bosom”.)
Now, in Heaven.
Last, shall be ON the renewed Earth.

When the malefactor hanging next to Jesus, confessed his Belief in Jesus, that man became Sav-ed.

A soul IN a man IS accounted Saved, when that man confesses Belief.
The SAVING occurs once a mans physical body is dead.
(God requires all natural body’s must die.
God can not quicken a mans body’s to a spiritual body, unless it first die it’s natural life.
Mans life...of a mans seed...natural, must die.
Mans life...of Gods seed......spiritual, can never die.)
Living men “today”, “crucified with Christ”, are pledging their body once Physically DEAD, unto God, and is an acceptable Offering provided by God, to satisfy the requirement of man must die Once.

Hell was revealed having a division of a great gulf. One side had the Tree of Life to sustain the departed Saved living souls. The other side was/IS where departed Unsaved living souls are SENT and experiencing torments.

The purpose of Division of hell was effected from the beginning of mankind, unto the day, of Jesus’ bodily death, His body buried, His living soul departed went to hell to preach to other souls in hell.

Jesus is first in ALL things. Departed living souls of men thus all went to hell, comfort side, with the Tree of Life, ie Paradise.
After Jesus living soul went to hell......and left, (returned to His body, and some 40 days later), His body, soul, spirit, rose up and returned to Heaven...
Thereafter all departed Saved Living souls, could go up Heaven;
With the Tree of Life, ie Paradise, and WAIT, to the day their body is risen in glory.

Once the earth is renewed, and all the faithful and converted are on earth with God, (Void of unbelieving men and Void of demonic fallen angels)
the Tree of Life, ie Paradise shall be On earth....where it was in the Beginning IN the Garden of Eden.

When Jesus said the one malefactor SHALL be with Him today in Paradise, He was speaking specifically of that mans Saved departed Living soul.

Any questions, welcome to ask.

Glory to God,
Taken
The thief was saved when Jesus forgave him not when or just because he confessed his belief. A person then or now is not saved by belief and confession of their belief. Then it required Jesus forgiveness. Now we have more that's required of us according to NT scriptures including repentance and baptism into Christ.
 

Rockerduck

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There is to much arguing over punctuation marks. The KJV is accurate enough over the last 400 years for Preacher's preaching the Word of God for those hearing the Word to come to salvation before the Lord Jesus Christ. Those that are born from above on this forum know the Word is written in their heart correctly.
 

Johann

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I think Peter is saying that the Spirit which raised Jesus from the dead is the same Spirit which spoke to the antediluvians by/ through Noah's preaching.

As we might make statements like, 'he's a troubled spirit' or 'these people have the right spirit'. The 'spirits' referred to by Peter are the people Noah preached to, the antediluvians; they are in the prison house of sin and rebellion.
Spot on brother.
The way I understand it.
J.
I think Peter is saying that the Spirit which raised Jesus from the dead is the same Spirit which spoke to the antediluvians by/ through Noah's preaching.

As we might make statements like, 'he's a troubled spirit' or 'these people have the right spirit'. The 'spirits' (a colloquialism) referred to by Peter are the people Noah preached to, the antediluvians; they are in the prison house of sin and rebellion.
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison. Various are the senses given of this passage: some say, that Christ, upon his death, went in his human soul to hell; either, as some, to preach to the devils and damned spirits, that they might be saved, if they would; and, as others, to let them know that he was come, and to fill them with dread and terror; but though hell may be meant by the prison, yet the text does not say that he went unto it, or preached in it; only that the spirits were in it, to whom he sometimes went, and preached; nor is his human soul, but his divine nature meant, by the Spirit, by which he went and preached to them: and as for the ends proposed, the former is impracticable and impossible; for after death follows judgment, which is an eternal one; nor is there any salvation, or hope of salvation afterwards; and the latter is absurd, vain, and needless. Others, as the Papists, imagine the sense to be, that Christ, at his death, went in his human soul, into a place they call "Limbus Patrum", which they suppose is meant by the prison here, and delivered the souls of the Old Testament saints and patriarchs from thence, and carried them with him to heaven; but this sense is also false, because, as before observed, not the human soul of Christ, but his divine nature, is designed by the Spirit; nor is there any such place as here feigned, in which the souls of Old Testament saints were, before the death of Christ; for they were in peace and rest, in the kingdom of heaven, in Abraham's bosom, inheriting the promises, and not in a prison; besides, the text says not one word of the delivering of these spirits out of prison, only of Christ's preaching to them: add to all this, and which Beza, with others, observes, the apostle speaks of such as had been disobedient, and unbelievers; a character which will not agree with righteous men, and prophets, and patriarchs, under the former dispensation: others think the words are to be understood of Christ's going to preach, by his apostles, to the Gentiles, as in Eph_2:17 who were in a most miserable condition, strangers to the covenants of promise, and destitute of the hope of salvation, and sat in darkness, and the shadow of death, and, as it were, at the gates of hell; were in the bonds of iniquity, and dead in sin, and had been for long time past foolish and disobedient, serving divers lusts and pleasures, to which they were in bondage. This is, indeed, a more tolerable sense than the former; but it will be difficult to show, that men, in the present state of life, are called "spirits", which seems to be a word that relates to the souls of men, in a separate state from their bodies; and especially that carnal and unconverted men are ever so called; and besides, the apostle is speaking of such who were disobedient in the times of Noah; and therefore not of the Gentiles, in the times of the apostles: add to which, that the transition from the times of the apostles, according to this sense, to the days of Noah, is very unaccountable; this sense does not agree with the connection of the words: others are of opinion, that this is meant of the souls of the Old Testament saints, who were εν φυλακη, "in a watch", as they think the phrase may be rendered, instead of "in prison": and said to be in such a situation, because they were intent upon the hope of promised salvation, and were looking out for the Messiah, and anxiously desiring his coming, and which he, by some gracious manifestation, made known unto them: but though the word may sometimes signify a watch, yet more commonly a prison, and which sense best suits here; nor is that anxiety and uneasiness, which represents them as in a prison, so applicable to souls in a state of happiness; nor such a gracious manifestation so properly called preaching; and besides, not believers, but unbelievers, disobedient ones, are here spoken of; and though it is only said they were sometimes so, yet to what purpose should this former character be once mentioned of souls now in glory? but it would be tedious to reckon up the several different senses of this place; some referring it to such in Noah's time, to whom the Gospel was preached, and who repented; and though they suffered in their bodies, in the general deluge, yet their souls were saved; whereas the apostle calls them all, "the world of the ungodly", 2Pe_2:5 and others, to the eight souls that were shut up in the ark, as in a prison, and were saved; though these are manifestly distinguished in the text from the disobedient spirits.

The plain and easy sense of the words is, that Christ, by his Spirit, by which he was quickened, went in the ministry of Noah, the preacher of righteousness, and preached both by words and deeds, by the personal ministry of Noah, and by the building of the ark, to that generation who was then in being; and who being disobedient, and continuing so, a flood was brought upon them which destroyed them all; and whose spirits, or separate souls, were then in the prison of hell, so the Syriac version renders it, בשיול, "in hell", see Rev_20:7 when the Apostle Peter wrote this epistle; so that Christ neither went into this prison, nor preached in it, nor to spirits that were then in it when he preached, but to persons alive in the days of Noah, and who being disobedient, when they died, their separate souls were put into prison, and there they were when the apostle wrote: from whence we learn, that Christ was, that he existed in his divine nature before he was incarnate, he was before Abraham, he was in the days of Noah;

and that Christ also, under the Old Testament, acted the part of a Mediator, in his divine nature, and by his Spirit discharged that branch of it, his prophetic office, before he appeared in human nature; and that the Gospel was preached in those early times, as unto Abraham, so before him.
Gill

I think you will appreciate this information from Gill.

J.
 

CadyandZoe

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Jesus said He would be 3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth following His crucifixion in Matthew 12:40

For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth

But Jesus also said to the thief on the cross "today you will be with me in paradise" Luke 23:43

And Jesus said unto him,Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise

So this seems like a contradiction, doesn't it? Was He in two places at once? The heart of the earth, where Jesus went to preach to the spirits in captivity as per 1 Peter 3:19, is surely not paradise by any stretch of the imagination.

Acts 1:2-3 mentions that He had not yet ascended to heaven, but was with them for 40 days.

...until the day he was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen
After his suffering, he presented himself to them and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God


John 20:17 Jesus tells Mary not to cling to Him for He had not ascended yet.

Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God

Acts 1:9-11 describes precisely when Jesus ascends to heaven.

After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight
They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them.
Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”


Question: why did Jesus tell the thief on the cross that he would be with Him in paradise "today" when scripture clearly teaches that Jesus descended to the realm of the dead and then resurrected to spend 40 days with His disciples?

Answer: The best answer I can think of is simply that God views time differently than we do, I guess.

Can anyone resolve this seeming contradiction?
Paradise is the name of the place where Jesus was buried.
Jesus will remember the thief when he comes into his kingdom.
In the mean time, "today," he will join Jesus in the grave.
 

quietthinker

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There is to much arguing over punctuation marks. The KJV is accurate enough over the last 400 years for Preacher's preaching the Word of God for those hearing the Word to come to salvation before the Lord Jesus Christ. Those that are born from above on this forum know the Word is written in their heart correctly.
Out of interest, there were many translations before the KJV. There was Luthers translation and the Geneva Bible which incidentally the pilgrims took with them and used, to mention few. The song and dance re the KJV is a straw man......and do we forget that God can use rocks and donkeys when it serves his purposes?
 

Rockerduck

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Rockerduck,
You said Holy Spirit told you that 2023 would be what exactly?
Eliyahoo

Out of interest, there were many translations before the KJV. There was Luthers translation and the Geneva Bible which incidentally the pilgrims took with them and used, to mention few. The song and dance re the KJV is a straw man......and do we forget that God can use rocks and donkeys when it serves his purposes?
I didn't mention the previous bibles. I said the KJV has been around over 400 years. No straw man, the KJV has been saving people for over 400years, undeniable. Romans 10:17 - faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

So God has blessed the King James bible and used it and Jesus quoted from it correctly.