Why did you start believing?

[InquisitiveAgnostic]

This is by far the most important question to be posed to any theist.

More important than "Why do you believe?" because it can't be answered honestly without falling into the circular faith argument of "I believe because I have faith". Faith must first start from something.

It is infinitely more personal and revealing than the question of "What do you believe?" as this can generally be answered by reading a book, usually with a few personal amendments that vary from indivual to individual.

So why did you start believing?

 

[FearNot]

You know, actually I have to say that there were TWO times in my life when I could say "this is when I started to believe". The first time when I was real young and for the first time decided to honestly deal with the question of the existance of God. Much of my chilhood was spent playing ball and hanging out with friends, but one day, close to around 12 or 13, I decided to address this issue head on. After thinking about it for a while, I decided that I believed that there was no God. Later in life, I took up the subject again, and after spending some time investigating the claims of Christianity, I came to believe that there was a God, and that he was the god of the bible.
I know it's quite popular among non-believers to say that "you can't choose to believe", but that's simply not true. I know because I made the choice BOTH ways. In the end, you "can't put God in a test tube". You have to weigh the evidence presented to you one way or the other and decide which line of evidence is more believable. As I have often told others, the most convincing evidence (to me) showing that the Christian story was true was the sheer massive amount of prophecies describing the coming messiah that was fulfilled by Jesus of Nazareth. The odds are simply astronomical that one man could have fulfilled so many!!

 

[Angelina]

I know it's quite popular among non-believers to say that "you can't choose to believe", but that's simply not true. I know because I made the choice BOTH ways. In the end, you "can't put God in a test tube". You have to weigh the evidence presented to you one way or the other and decide which line of evidence is more believable.

Amen! well said FN!

Why did you start believing

...and good question AI

This is one of the many reasons why I believe there is a God!
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/13640-why-do-you-love-god/?p=105767

Be blessed!!!

 

[Raeneske]

This is by far the most important question to be posed to any theist.

More important than "Why do you believe?" because it can't be answered honestly without falling into the circular faith argument of "I believe because I have faith". Faith must first start from something.

It is infinitely more personal and revealing than the question of "What do you believe?" as this can generally be answered by reading a book, usually with a few personal amendments that vary from indivual to individual.

So why did you start believing?

Honestly I'm not quite sure. I know I struggled when I was younger, and even began to disbelieve in the possibility of there being a God. I remember however searching frantically when I was younger, and almost giving up, as I read up on evolution. I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer but I know two things which are not possible, which are supported by evolution - even the origins.

1) How does nothing explode?
2) How can RNA "spontaneously" generate?

As I call them, "poof theories". Not for disrespect, but the fact that they are based of immediate "poofing" of something into existance - without the help of God. That's ridiculous, considering how complex everything around us is, more complex than anything we have invented - And we have come "pretty far". Nothing pops into place, so complete without having a design. The chances of all this happening are astronomically minute (anything with 1 x 10^50 power stands no chance of happening, mathmatically, no matter the amount of time given), yet the chances of all this are above 1 x 10^50.

I guess I started believing, when I started searching. It also confused me that all the prophecy which I have found has come true within the Bible, and in the World (real prophecy, a lot of churches, or maybe all, connected to the WCC preach false prophecy (no offense to any church part of that, I however think it would be wise to realize, and analyze the fact that all the World Christian Churches are coming together... and no one sees a problem with the mass collection of Christians like that...) and it would be unwise to listen to a lot of theories, because there are gaping holes which blow the mind), everything that was predicted came true. Kind of sends a red flag up, and makes you rethink things.

Hope this helps!

 

[Proverbs Dove]

I came to the start of my journey as a seeker and continue as such, years ago when I hit rock bottom. Not those horror stories we read about regarding the dear alcoholic or drug user that felt lost and then found the light. Rather, everything in my life that seemed to be sure and a matter of fact suddenly one afternoon turned transparent. As if someone had pulled back a gorgeous insulated custom made drapery and all that was there to see afterward was a very pale sheer panel.

It helped me to suddenly and with an almost physical impact, realize that all this wasn't truly all that mattered.
So I began to peruse the family Bibles in our library. And then I started to notice little things would occur, or people would say something that had a ring like unto a keyword relating to that former sheer curtain realization moment. As if all these spiritual themes markers were being dropped in to my attention through varying sources so as to lead me to realize one consistent message when putting them altogether like unto pieces to a puzzle.

And I've been journaling and following those puzzle pieces ever since. Noticing as I go that there is one gigantic picture slowly evolving due to experiences,choices, more and more themes finding their way to my attention from various sources, all relating to either that aforementioned message or hinting at a new one.
It's fascinating actually. It's like hearing now and then these musical notes. And paying attention and recalling the former notes, I'm starting to get in tune with the whole song that's accompanying the background of my life.

It's great to feel so small in a great big infinite alive sentient universe called, my life. And to know at the same time that my little self is vital to making it all work out perfectly. It helps me to appreciate everyone I meet as I realize they are vital parts in the big picture too. So we're all here as souls living this human experience.

It puts the concepts of church, religion, doctrine, into perspective. We are the Angels in this part of God's plan and, even though there is much chaos in the world as we know it, this part of his Heaven as well.

I love God's family. And each and every one of us is related as such I think. No strangers in this world. Just opportunity to get reacquainted.

 

[THE Gypsy]

This is by far the most important question to be posed to any theist.

More important than "Why do you believe?" because it can't be answered honestly without falling into the circular faith argument of "I believe because I have faith". Faith must first start from something.

It is infinitely more personal and revealing than the question of "What do you believe?" as this can generally be answered by reading a book, usually with a few personal amendments that vary from indivual to individual.

So why did you start believing?

Readers Digest Version...

I started out...after one of those horror story childhoods...evolving into an agnostic. From there I jumped into witchcraft...with both feet. After several years and half a dozen close calls with the grim reaper, I found myself in the living room of a Believer that had been delivered out of a similar set of circumstances. After hours of discussion, he asked me if I wanted to pray. I said yes, and there in the middle of the floor, sobbing like a fewl, I asked Jesus to help me clear up the crap in my life. I have STAYED a Believer, not because everything is always perfect but because I have seen enough evidence of God in my life to confirm his existence.



BTW...what made you settle on agnosticism?

 

[Questor]

This is by far the most important question to be posed to any theist.

More important than "Why do you believe?" because it can't be answered honestly without falling into the circular faith argument of "I believe because I have faith". Faith must first start from something.

It is infinitely more personal and revealing than the question of "What do you believe?" as this can generally be answered by reading a book, usually with a few personal amendments that vary from indivual to individual.

So why did you start believing?

I started believing in 'God' at my first visit at the age of 7 to a Sunday School lesson that a neighbor took me to. I was told with authority by the teacher that I must believe in 'God', or I would go to hell. To accompany that teaching, the lady giving the class had a full color chalkboard sized picture of hell, and what it would be like. I was also told I had to be perfect. I believed her.

8 years later I was baptised into a church, but somehow wound up in the occult...strange how the Adversary is able to get us out of our churches, and into his right after Baptism.

7 years after that, I began searching everything about any religion, heard the word in detailed deep teaching for the next thirty-five years. I studied, I read, I debated doctrine online. Then I realised that everything I had been taught was someone else's idea or testimony, and I asked Yeshua what to believe.

He took me into straight reason, and asked me if I wanted there to be any 'God'.

I said yes.

Yeshua then asked if there were no 'God', would I still want one?

I said yes.

Yeshua asked me what kind of 'God' I wanted.

I said Yeshua, which is YHVH incarnate in human flesh, dying for my sins as my redemptive offering, and giving me His righteousness as a gift instead of the sins of mine, and the world, that were laid on Him.

Obviously, Yeshua was just as happy with that conclusion as I was (And if was no light decision though I speak lightly of it).

Belief, trust in Yeshua, is a choice. Some people are more clear in that knowledge, that's all.

We were both fine with that, and still are.

I hope you will consider such simple and devastating questions.



Q

 

[Dan57]

Prophecy, it was a convincing factor that helped me to believe. Prophecy presented evidence that the bible was true and not just a bunch of concocted ancient fairy tales.

 

[InquisitiveAgnostic]

Readers Digest Version...

I started out...after one of those horror story childhoods...evolving into an agnostic. From there I jumped into witchcraft...with both feet. After several years and half a dozen close calls with the grim reaper, I found myself in the living room of a Believer that had been delivered out of a similar set of circumstances. After hours of discussion, he asked me if I wanted to pray. I said yes, and there in the middle of the floor, sobbing like a fewl, I asked Jesus to help me clear up the crap in my life. I have STAYED a Believer, not because everything is always perfect but because I have seen enough evidence of God in my life to confirm his existence.



BTW...what made you settle on agnosticism?

To be technical I'm an agnostic atheist; which just means I don't believe there is a God, but I don't discount the idea that there could be.

I haven't always been agnostic, I was raised as a casual Christian (basic christian beliefs but without the exposure to church) A have a few great uncles who were pastors and one who was actually a Dean at a theological college.

When I was young the bible made perfect sense, then as I got older and I began questioning things, I noticed a lot of hypocrasy and error in the teachings.

One example is Noah's ark, which from a Fundamentalist standpoint could never fit ALL species and variations of species on a boat of it's given dimensions. Not to mention the food needed to sustain them for over a year. Along with many oversights that would have been permissable to an ancient culture but is now known to be false.

If taken from a more flexible standpoint that they are stories to be interpreted; than that obviously shows the books are not the word of God, just man-made stories. In which case, why believe any of it?

Then there is also the matter of scientific discovery 'debunking' biblical ideas. Unlike 2000 years ago, we know where lightning comes from, rain, how to cross breed animals and plants, the rotation of the planets, the chemical make-up of our atmosphere. Even the stages of pregnancy and conception.

Whereas nothing has ever been re-attributed to God.

Scientific Hypotheses (assumptions) and Theories (Proven assumptions) are under -constant- testing and re-evaluation to come to the most right answer we can discover. While a religion can only thrive with a lack of honest testing and skepticism.

When it comes right down to it I would rather live a life experiencing the world and trying my best to better it than to cling to a set of pre-medieval rituals and beliefs designed to keep oneself subserviant.

Just to make it clear. I would prefer if there was a God who was personally interested in my welfare and could offer me an afterlife instead of blank oblivion. I just don't see the evidence to support such a deity.

1) How does nothing explode?
2) How can RNA "spontaneously" generate?

1) Where the Big Bang came from and what caused it, there are a few hypotheses... no one knows for a certainty. We might find out eventually, we might not. In my personal life if has no bearing lol. The fact that it's impossible to know right now is the only reason I continue to classify myself as an Agnostic

2) As for RNA 'poofing' into existence. It's believed that the combination of electrical storms, volcanic activity and abundance of water created Amino acids and other products of very basic life.

That hypothesis is supported by the 'Miller-Urey' experiment conducted in the 1950's

It has since been re-tested over the years and the conclusions have been the same.

Source:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller%E2%80%93Urey_experiment

 

[Raeneske]

To be technical I'm an agnostic atheist; which just means I don't believe there is a God, but I don't discount the idea that there could be.

I haven't always been agnostic, I was raised as a casual Christian (basic christian beliefs but without the exposure to church) A have a few great uncles who were pastors and one who was actually a Dean at a theological college.

When I was young the bible made perfect sense, then as I got older and I began questioning things, I noticed a lot of hypocrasy and error in the teachings.

One example is Noah's ark, which from a Fundamentalist standpoint could never fit ALL species and variations of species on a boat of it's given dimensions. Not to mention the food needed to sustain them for over a year. Along with many oversights that would have been permissable to an ancient culture but is now known to be false.

If taken from a more flexible standpoint that they are stories to be interpreted; than that obviously shows the books are not the word of God, just man-made stories. In which case, why believe any of it?

Then there is also the matter of scientific discovery 'debunking' biblical ideas. Unlike 2000 years ago, we know where lightning comes from, rain, how to cross breed animals and plants, the rotation of the planets, the chemical make-up of our atmosphere. Even the stages of pregnancy and conception.

Whereas nothing has ever been re-attributed to God.

Scientific Hypotheses (assumptions) and Theories (Proven assumptions) are under -constant- testing and re-evaluation to come to the most right answer we can discover. While a religion can only thrive with a lack of honest testing and skepticism.

When it comes right down to it I would rather live a life experiencing the world and trying my best to better it than to cling to a set of pre-medieval rituals and beliefs designed to keep oneself subserviant.

Just to make it clear. I would prefer if there was a God who was personally interested in my welfare and could offer me an afterlife instead of blank oblivion. I just don't see the evidence to support such a deity.



1) Where the Big Bang came from and what caused it, there are a few hypotheses... no one knows for a certainty. We might find out eventually, we might not. In my personal life if has no bearing lol. The fact that it's impossible to know right now is the only reason I continue to classify myself as an Agnostic

2) As for RNA 'poofing' into existence. It's believed that the combination of electrical storms, volcanic activity and abundance of water created Amino acids and other products of very basic life.

That hypothesis is supported by the 'Miller-Urey' experiment conducted in the 1950's

It has since been re-tested over the years and the conclusions have been the same.

Source:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller%E2%80%93Urey_experiment

Correct, there are hypotheses about the big bang. But it all more or less constitutes the same thing. At one time, there was nothing, and for reasons yet identified, nothing exploded, and here we are.

As for RNA, - Water, Volcanos, and lightning created life? All those things, lightning we know to be very destructive and molten lava, destructive, all came together with water, to form life's first perfect building block? No offense to you, please don't take any , but lava and water, and electrical storms would be far from giving birth to the perfect building block of life.

Spontaneous explosions, and spontaneous life coming into existance - with the ability to replicate itself, and all the building blocks are in place, and neccesary to exist. Sorry man, i'm not buying it.

 

[Dan57]

One example is Noah's ark, which from a Fundamentalist standpoint could never fit ALL species and variations of species on a boat of it's given dimensions. Not to mention the food needed to sustain them for over a year. Along with many oversights that would have been permissable to an ancient culture but is now known to be false.

If taken from a more flexible standpoint that they are stories to be interpreted; than that obviously shows the books are not the word of God, just man-made stories. In which case, why believe any of it?

I personally don't believe Noah's flood was worldwide, but a regional flood which affected all the earth relating to Noah's people, those of the adamic seedline. It was a huge deluge, but the entire world was not submerged in water. Therefore, Noah did not collect every animal known, but only those indigenous to the area flooded.

"The word "earth" used in these passages of Genesis is the Hebrew word "erets" (Strong's O.T. #776). Erets does not actually carry any connotation of a global, spherical planet in its translation. While it has been translated as "earth" many times, it is also translated "country" 140 times, "land" 1,476 times, and "ground" 96 times in the Old Testament. In the various references to erets it can be shown it is most often used to infer a limited land area rather than the entire planet." http://www.orange-street-church.org/text/noah-flood.htm#2

"Egyptian chronology proves that no Deluge covered that land. As Genesis 7:20 tells us that the waters stood sixty feet above the mountain tops, and some of the mountains are over six miles in height, the waters of the Flood would have covered Egypt six miles deep. There is not enough water or moisture in existence on all the earth to accomplish that. When Genesis, therefore, speaks of the Flood covering the earth, it means that part of the earth in which the Adamites lived who sinned against God." http://www.depodio.com/noah.htm

 

[IanLC]

I started believing because this gospel was foolish yet so powerfully true and real to me. The passion of the saved people I saw the lives that they lived, the wonders of God they spoke about and the preaching of the gospel drew me. It had to be something about this Jesus if so many of these people had such a joy and love for Him despite there circumstances. I was drawn to the faith by Him it was just simply He (Jesus) that drew me through the testimonies and lives of His people (saved people) and the preaching of the gospel that drew me.

 

[THE Gypsy]

To be technical I'm an agnostic atheist; which just means I don't believe there is a God, but I don't discount the idea that there could be.

That seems a bit contradictory to me. If you don't believe there IS a god, haven't you already discounted the idea of one?

One example is Noah's ark, which from a Fundamentalist standpoint could never fit ALL species and variations of species on a boat of it's given dimensions. Not to mention the food needed to sustain them for over a year. Along with many oversights that would have been permissable to an ancient culture but is now known to be false.

If taken from a more flexible standpoint that they are stories to be interpreted; than that obviously shows the books are not the word of God, just man-made stories. In which case, why believe any of it?

I have to admit that is one of the tertiary issues I plan to ask the Maker when I get there.

Another issue for me is the Job thingy. I have a real problem with that whole episode.

Then there is also the matter of scientific discovery 'debunking' biblical ideas. Unlike 2000 years ago, we know where lightning comes from, rain, how to cross breed animals and plants, the rotation of the planets, the chemical make-up of our atmosphere. Even the stages of pregnancy and conception.

Whereas nothing has ever been re-attributed to God.

Scientific Hypotheses (assumptions) and Theories (Proven assumptions) are under -constant- testing and re-evaluation to come to the most right answer we can discover.

I don't want to get into a scientific debate because bottom line...both concepts (science and creation) can basically boil down to theory. There is no absolute, positive proof of either.

.

While a religion can only thrive with a lack of honest testing and skepticism.

I myself, as well as many Believers I know, have indeed put religion to "honest testing" and have walked away realizing it is not about religion...it's about a relationship.

When it comes right down to it I would rather live a life experiencing the world and trying my best to better it than to cling to a set of pre-medieval rituals and beliefs designed to keep oneself subserviant.

While its a nobel thing to work for the betterment of this world, a higher aspiration and I believe attainable goal is to willingly participate in the authors plan.

Having said that...I wish more Christians had a portion of that commitment.

Just to make it clear. I would prefer if there was a God who was personally interested in my welfare and could offer me an afterlife instead of blank oblivion. I just don't see the evidence to support such a deity.

“Have we ever got into the way of letting God work, or are we so amazingly important that we really wonder in our nerves and ways what the Almighty does before we are up in the morning!” ~ Oswald Chambers Bio at utmost.org

That said...When we read the Scriptures, He seems to be pretty focused on us after all and gives us many years to get prepared for the next dimension of our soul...if we are interested.

 

[InquisitiveAgnostic]

I'm only going to comment on the first port you made, Gypsy, as I don't want to derail the point of the thread.

Agnostic is just "I don't believe, but there could be"

it's covered in another recent thread of mine http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/17170-a-useful-chart-for-classifying-belief/

I would fall under Agnostic Atheist

 

[Selene]

For me, it was the living testimonies of the martyrs and saints. For example, Mother Theresa took a vow of poverty and dedicated her life to serving the poor, knowing full well that even her efforts will not eliminate poverty. The miracle is not that she dedicated her life to serving the poor....it was the fact that she enjoyed doing what she did despite that she gained no salary from it. I have known many people with salary who find no joy in what they do. Father Damian was another inspiration. He dedicated his life to the lepers and even died of leprosy. They found joy in what they did even Father Damian who chose to administer to the lepers.

 

[Jan 1111]

Why/when did I first believe?? I can’t remember a time that I didn’t. From the time I was a small child I believed. I would call it a gut intuition/connection. I also was raised in a family of believers that went to church on a regular basis where I learned about God.


Later on in my twenties my belief became more of a logical thing by understanding the expanse of the universe and complexity of life. I couldn’t deny God’s existence. Just look at the world around you. Look within your immediate view - people, animals, trees, etc. Then look up at the night sky and see the stars. God’s evidence is all around. It doesn’t make logical sense that atoms/molecules accidentally came together and formed life. This universe is way to complex to have happened by accident. I believe that there is a loving God that created it all and is in control.

I know some people that are atheistic or agnostic. They are wonderful people. I think what it comes down to with people that are atheistic or agnostic is the way their brains/minds process things. Some people are great at math, others music. Some may be good at both. We all have things that we understand easily. I think that some just don’t grasp the concept of God. I believe that God loves them just as much as believers and wants a relationship with them.

 

[FearNot]

To be technical I'm an agnostic atheist; which just means I don't believe there is a God, but I don't discount the idea that there could be.

Wouldn't you say that your proclamation that you "don't believe there is a God" is essentially the same as saying that "you believe there is no God"? Please don't sidetrack into referring to other gods...I'm just talking about the Christian god here.

 

[rstrats]

FearNot,

re: "I know it's quite popular among non-believers to say that 'you can't choose to believe', but that's simply not true."

　

Perhaps you can help me, then. I have never been able to consciously CHOOSE any of the beliefs that I have, and I would like to be able to do that. Since you seem to imply that you can consciously choose to believe things I wonder if you might demonstrate that ability?. Perhaps you could use something like leprechauns to demonstrate your ability and technique. According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, leprechauns are "fairies peculiar to Ireland, who appear in the form of an old man of minute stature, wearing a cocked hat and a leather apron" and who store away their gold in a pot at the end of a rainbow, and If ever captured have to grant three wishes to the person who captures them. So, assuming that you don't already have a belief in them, how about right now, while you are reading this, CHOOSE to believe - be convinced without a doubt - that they exist. Now that you believe in leprechauns, my question is, how did you do it? How did you make the instantaneous transition from lack of belief to belief?

 

[biggandyy]

When I was confronted with the irrefutable logical conclusion there MUST be a "god" (some one wholey other than our universe) it was an easy course to find the claims of the Bible and their basic truthfulness.

 

[Lux Veritatis]

When I was confronted with the irrefutable logical conclusion there MUST be a "god" (some one wholey other than our universe) it was an easy course to find the claims of the Bible and their basic truthfulness.

How did you reach this irrefutable logical conclusion?