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Why didnt the Protestant Reformation unite.

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Hobie, Apr 10, 2019.

  1. Hobie

    Hobie Member

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    Its amazing how many truths Martin Luther struggled over and it even kept the Reformation from uniting into one church. Martin Luther continued to hold to many ideas he got as a priest including Transubstantiation, that the bread and the wine used in the sacrament of the Eucharist become, not merely as by a sign or a figure, but also in actual reality the body and blood of Christ. The leading Protestant reformers Martin Luther and Ulrich Zwingli clashed over this at meeting with many leaders of the reformers in Germany in order to develop a unified Protestant theology. Luther, actually because of the differences, refused initially to acknowledge Zwingli and his followers as Christians, imagine that.

    The two prominent reformers, Luther and Zwingli, found a consensus on fourteen points, but they kept differing on the last one pertaining to the Eucharist. On this issue they parted without having reached an agreement. Luther did a great work in shining to others the light which God had permitted to shine upon him, yet the work of unveiling the understanding of the scriptures fell prey to disunity. Why?
     
  2. Dave L

    Dave L Guest

    They never fully recovered from Catholicism. I think the 1600s English Baptists came the closest to completing the Reformation.
     
  3. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

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    The reformation is continuing today but in such a way as to bring together in one all the truths that the individual reformers rediscovered but disagreed on. Plus the one aspect of reform that all the reformers had no real light on and which the Papacy is most at odds with...the law of God.
     
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  4. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    You actually wanted to say, ...the Fourth Commandment?
     
  5. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    Why didn't the Protestant Reformation unite?

    Because if it united there today would be no Protestants or Protestant churches but all like the Lutherans would have gone Roman Catholic again, and that would have been against Divine Providence.
     
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  6. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

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    Obviously it must be included...unless one reasons and uses human wisdom to pretend it has been replaced or that God has removed His blessing from the 7th day.
     
  7. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    Proverbs 16:9
    "A man’s heart plans his way, But the Lord directs his steps."

    Many look at disunity as anything but direction from God...but that is not how God actually works. Just ask Paul when you see him, if his parting with Barnabas did not have its benefits to the gospel being preached by a path they otherwise would not have taken. His strength is made perfect in weakness. Are we not also created even with one leg opposing the other by strength, one seemingly pushing backward, the end result of which is forward motion?

    Disunity is not the problem...it's the solution.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2019
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  8. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    The reformation brought about the novel idea that one is saved by holding to one form of doctrine over another. A doctrinal salvation. Of course this is all man-made...a construct of a competitive mind that says...."I'm right and you're wrong." Can any kind of unity come from that? Apart from Babylon I mean....

    The reformation also brought in the idea of private interpretations. Since there are so many doctrinal possibilities, religious speculators have started franchises that cover certain doctrinal ingredients and marketed these as truth. So today there is a choice of thousands of different man-made versions of the truth. There's always a new blend or new presentation meant to get people in the pews...or couches.

    The one thing that is common to all of these is that they seek to appeal to the selfish nature of people who want to "get saved."
     
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  9. APAK

    APAK Well-Known Member

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    The key doctrine and theme in the entire Bible is all about personal salvation, never such a thing as false Catholic or Reformation/Protestant institutional or club-sanctioned salvation of yesterday and today.

    (Php 2:8) And being perceived as a normal man, he humbled himself, becoming obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
    (Php 2:9) Wherefore God highly exalted him, and gave to him the name which is above every name-
    (Php 2:10) that in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the earth,
    (Php 2:11) and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
    (Php 2:12) So then, my beloved, even as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
    (Php 2:13) For it is God who works in you, both to will and to work, for His good pleasure.

    Paul had it right of course..

    Blessings,

    APAK
     
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  10. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    True Christian, spiritual unity works out at a local church level when believers collectively practise Acts 2.41-41. And even before interpersonal fellowship among Christians comes fellowship with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ (1 John 1.3).

    The idea that ecclesiastical management should somehow impose a uniform organization upon all professing Christians is frankly ghastly and sinister. Someone has written, Unity without truth is a conspiracy.
     
  11. Preacher4Truth

    Preacher4Truth Well-Known Member

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    The above is untrue and shows you just do not understand what you're speaking of. Now, wonder how 1 Timothy 4:16 fits in here? :)
     
  12. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

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    I think the above offers a somewhat truncated perspective, as if all the lies, errors and superstition that dominated the European landscape for the previous 1000 years from which the holy Spirit, through those reformers, was wrenching the people free from, was of no consequence. Truth in the form of theological doctrine had been trampled into the dust and cast to the wind by decades of religious perversion and we cannot expect that the reformers, who had been taught and inculcated by those lies within the very institution they had been brought up to revere and love, to all suddenly come to a united 'eureka' moment and all agree on what constituted true Biblical doctrine. So sure, there was always going to be the 'human element' that inhibited growth and obscured revelation, but let us not cast off what was accomplished by those courageous men of God just because they didn't get it all right, nor should we minimise their hugely positive effect on the religious landscape simply because their followers got bogged down in disputes and sectarian squabbling. After all, wasn't that what they had been taught to do? Banish, hunt down, excommunicate, ostracise, torture, and kill all who disagreed with the status quo? God gave them grace, and I think we ought to as well.
    What the world has been given and what we witness today in the world's churches may not be doctrinally perfect, but it is potential and opportunity...freedom...which in medieval Europe was a very rare commodity. We have a plethora of Bibles available, and regardless of the version we favour, God is able to guide people to Himself through those inspired pages which in the dark ages was near nigh impossible. People in those days of servitude to religious bigotry and prejudice, depended on blind priests and prelates for guidance, and they all together fell into the ditch.
    Those reformers dragged people out of that ditch by their courage and determination to stand up to the hatred and vindictiveness of Rome, showing the people that the Bible and the Bible only was the only standard of faith and practice that needed to be observed. Thus Protestantism grew and flourished, and but for the concerted efforts of the Jesuits within the context of the counter reformation, the Papacy would have bled and died.
    It is not time now to abandon those principles which the reformers rediscovered, but to gather them together and place them in their true light. No, we are not saved by doctrine, and that is not I believe what the reformers were suggesting. They were rediscovering truths that had lain buried for 1000 years, and those truths, not as separate sectarian pet beliefs, but truths united as a whole in leading people to the Holy of Holies, were leading people to Christ, Who then became the peoples' salvation. It is not through the union of churches that we come to Christ, but through the union of those truths that the Papacy had opposed and distorted and hidden, which when brought to the light, led people away from superstition, to the light of the gospel, and the way to salvation.
     
  13. quietthinker

    quietthinker Well-Known Member

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    very well said brakelite, very well!
     
  14. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to share this on my Facebook page with a note saying, 'Perhaps going too far?' Truth remains, Truth brings about Unity in The Truth, Jesus Christ... "ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES".
     
  15. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    You wanted to say, The key doctrine and theme in the entire Bible is all about _MY - APAK's true_ personal salvation _DOCTRINE_ never such a thing as false Catholic or Reformation/Protestant institutional salvation.

    Fact is all authors of the NT including Jesus the Author of our salvation, even when in the Singular address the BODY of Christ's Own in effect, never 'personally' but rather 'institutionally' in the PLURAL, and actually in most cases, speak to and of the BODY of Christ's Own as the Ekklesia, the CHURCH of God-- PLURAL, i.e., collectively and not individually or 'personally'.
     
  16. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    There is in the Bible no personal salvation which does not end in the completion of salvation in the Church of Christ.
     
  17. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    There’s no ‘individual salvation’ protagonist who is not a Seventh Day Sabbath OF THE LORD antagonist. Not one. But who almost certainly will be a Sunday sacredness propogandist. Any and all.
     
  18. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    Please tell me, for me please, What you say God's <blessing (of) the 7th day> is?
     
  19. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

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    Revelation
     
  20. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    Of what?
     
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