Why DO Most Christians Believe Death is a Separation as Opposed to Cessation of Life?

[Truth OT]

I have also read the texts below that assert that the hope of mankind ever since Adam sinned has been to overcome the wages of sin and the scriptures tell us that the wage is death. Jesus conquering death made it a reality that Adam's descendants could be raised from the grave and from the curse of sin and death.
Let me again reiterate:

From what I read in the scriptures, Heaven was mentioned as a reward very sparingly and in fact not until Jesus in the NT brought it up in reference to the Kingdom. It seems like the heavenly promise was made by Jesus to a select group as opposed to all believers of all time. The hope of the righteous that Jesus made possible according to how I currently understand scripture is not Heaven, but rather LIFE.

(Jn 10:10b).... I came that they may have life, and may have it abundantly.

(Jn 5:39-40).. "You search the Scriptures, because you suppose that in them you will find the Life of the Ages; and it is those scriptures that yield testimony concerning me; and yet you are unwilling to come to me that you may have Life.

(Jn 6:68)..."Master," replied Simon Peter, "to whom shall we go? Your teachings tell us of the Life of the Ages.

(Jn 11:25)..."I am the Resurrection and the Life," said Jesus; "he who believes in me, even if he has died, he shall live;

(Rom 6:21-23)...What fruit had ye then in those things of which ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. But now that you have been set free from the tyranny of Sin, and have become the bondservants of God, you have your reward in being made holy, and you have the Life of the Ages as the final result. For the wages paid by Sin are death; but God's free gift is the Life of the Ages bestowed upon us in Christ Jesus our Lord.

(1 Jn 2:24-25) .... As for you, let the teaching which you have received from the very beginning continue in your hearts. If that teaching does continue in your hearts, you also will continue to be in union with the Son and with the Father. And this is the promise which He Himself has given us--the Life of the Ages.

 

[Truman]

I can assure you, that I believe, as sure as I'm talking to you, that the Holy God, Master of the universe, has revealed Himself to me.
My first memory was the instant I came into being. In front of me was a ball of extremely bright light. All around it was dark.
On my second birthday, I recall thinking that this was my first memory, as I had always remembered it throughout my first two years. Why I remember this? Good question. I have met one other person who had the same experience.
My father was an atheist socialist. So when I was nagged into going to church when I was 14, my opinion of Jesus was that He was the Christmas baby and had something to do with the Easter bunny.
As I sat there in church, a guy read to me out of the bible. "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, so that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but receive everlasting life."
I instantly saw somewhere else. There was a curtain about two feet in front of me. A hand, holding a sword, thrust out of the curtain and plunged the sword into my gut. I instantly knew that what was just read to me was true. Then I was again sitting in the church.
I could write pages about supernatural experiences I've had since with God. One being the time I had a rare reaction to a medication, where I died in emergency when my heart stopped. As they were filling out my time of death, my heart started beating again.
Years later, I had a memory of standing on a street in what I believe was the New Jerusalem, looking into Jesus' eyes. I believe it was from that time. It was wonderful. So, yeah, I know this life is not the end, rather, it is just the beginning.
If you'd like my advice, it would be to ask God, that's if He's real, to reveal Himself to you.

 

[GaryAnderson]

I have also read the texts below that assert that the hope of mankind ever since Adam sinned has been to overcome the wages of sin and the scriptures tell us that the wage is death. Jesus conquering death made it a reality that Adam's descendants could be raised from the grave and from the curse of sin and death.
Let me again reiterate:

From what I read in the scriptures, Heaven was mentioned as a reward very sparingly and in fact not until Jesus in the NT brought it up in reference to the Kingdom. It seems like the heavenly promise was made by Jesus to a select group as opposed to all believers of all time. The hope of the righteous that Jesus made possible according to how I currently understand scripture is not Heaven, but rather LIFE.

(Jn 10:10b).... I came that they may have life, and may have it abundantly.

(Jn 5:39-40).. "You search the Scriptures, because you suppose that in them you will find the Life of the Ages; and it is those scriptures that yield testimony concerning me; and yet you are unwilling to come to me that you may have Life.

(Jn 6:68)..."Master," replied Simon Peter, "to whom shall we go? Your teachings tell us of the Life of the Ages.

(Jn 11:25)..."I am the Resurrection and the Life," said Jesus; "he who believes in me, even if he has died, he shall live;

(Rom 6:21-23)...What fruit had ye then in those things of which ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. But now that you have been set free from the tyranny of Sin, and have become the bondservants of God, you have your reward in being made holy, and you have the Life of the Ages as the final result. For the wages paid by Sin are death; but God's free gift is the Life of the Ages bestowed upon us in Christ Jesus our Lord.

(1 Jn 2:24-25) .... As for you, let the teaching which you have received from the very beginning continue in your hearts. If that teaching does continue in your hearts, you also will continue to be in union with the Son and with the Father. And this is the promise which He Himself has given us--the Life of the Ages.

I’m probably one of the few here who’s not going to give you a biblical answer because I know that the Bible is irrelevant to an atheist but before I attempt to answer this I’d like to ask you a question.
What do you believe about the soul and the existence of an afterlife?

 

[Truth OT]

What do you believe about the soul and the existence of an afterlife?

I believe we are living souls as opposed to us having a soul. When we die, we cease living. I don't see evidence for an afterlife and I do not believe in ghosts.

I’m probably one of the few here who’s not going to give you a biblical answer because I know that the Bible is irrelevant to an atheist

Actually for this sake of this discussion, the Bible and what it teaches is the focus. That's why my initial post is littered with scriptures.

 

[GaryAnderson]

Ok so in this case some of the evidence that you’re looking for is a guy named Robert Bigelow. He’s a millionaire who studies the paranormal. He has lost his wife and son so that’s been his motivation for investigating this field. He has put the time, work and money. His conclusion is that something exists and is aware after death.
There’s also the big pile of testimonies of NDEs, with Pamela Reynolds being the best “evidence” for life after death but many atheists shrug those off as hallucinations.

As far as the Bible goes, we will all be resurrected on the second coming of Christ.

 

[Truth OT]

As far as the Bible goes, we will all be resurrected on the second coming of Christ.

I think we agree to an extent here, yay! From all I've read, the Bible seems to consistently advocate the notion of resurrection where dead people are brought back to life again to be either rewarded with lasting life or punished with a 2nd death from which there is no resurrection.

 

[OzSpen]

I have also read the texts below that assert that the hope of mankind ever since Adam sinned has been to overcome the wages of sin and the scriptures tell us that the wage is death. Jesus conquering death made it a reality that Adam's descendants could be raised from the grave and from the curse of sin and death.
Let me again reiterate:

From what I read in the scriptures, Heaven was mentioned as a reward very sparingly and in fact not until Jesus in the NT brought it up in reference to the Kingdom. It seems like the heavenly promise was made by Jesus to a select group as opposed to all believers of all time. The hope of the righteous that Jesus made possible according to how I currently understand scripture is not Heaven, but rather LIFE.

(Jn 10:10b).... I came that they may have life, and may have it abundantly.

(Jn 5:39-40).. "You search the Scriptures, because you suppose that in them you will find the Life of the Ages; and it is those scriptures that yield testimony concerning me; and yet you are unwilling to come to me that you may have Life.

(Jn 6:68)..."Master," replied Simon Peter, "to whom shall we go? Your teachings tell us of the Life of the Ages.

(Jn 11:25)..."I am the Resurrection and the Life," said Jesus; "he who believes in me, even if he has died, he shall live;

(Rom 6:21-23)...What fruit had ye then in those things of which ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. But now that you have been set free from the tyranny of Sin, and have become the bondservants of God, you have your reward in being made holy, and you have the Life of the Ages as the final result. For the wages paid by Sin are death; but God's free gift is the Life of the Ages bestowed upon us in Christ Jesus our Lord.

(1 Jn 2:24-25) .... As for you, let the teaching which you have received from the very beginning continue in your hearts. If that teaching does continue in your hearts, you also will continue to be in union with the Son and with the Father. And this is the promise which He Himself has given us--the Life of the Ages.

TruthOT,

Are you an agnostic, atheist or something else?

Oz

 

[marks]

Why DO Most Christians Believe Death is a Separation as Opposed to Cessation of Life?

Because we believe the teaching of the Bible, and the Bible tells us that life goes on after physical death.

Matthew 22:31-32 YLT
31) 'And concerning the rising again of the dead, did ye not read that which was spoken to you by God, saying,
32) I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not a God of dead men, but of living.'

Jesus was answering some of the people who did not believe in the resurrection. In this New Testament passage, Jesus affirms the teaching of life that survives physical death in the Old Testament.

For myself, I believe God gives abundant life in the time now, but also that this life is everlasting.

According the the Bible, we are here because we've descended as a part of Humanity. And this humanity dies. Jesus came to make us a part of a new humanity, one which derives it's life not from the physical creation, as does the original humanity, but from His very Self. Jesus is eternal, so we who find our life in Him will live with Him everlasting.

Much love!

 

[Taken]

Why DO Most Christians Believe Death is a Separation as Opposed to Cessation of Life?
OP^

God “creates” individual Things.
God “makes” The Individual Things Alive”

God “gives” every Seed it’s own kind of Body.
A mankind of thing that reproduces will reproduce a man-kind of thing From it’s seed.

A mans seed fertilizes a females seed.
A man-kind of thing begins forming, Dependent on the females “life” which is the females Blood.

As the dependent forming life is separated from the female that thing (body) is given independent Life from from Gods breath.
Meaning...
That Thing (Body) is independently alive dependent on it own Blood (bodily) life.

All bodily (blood) life IS sentenced TO Die.

All “souls” (given) a body, vis Gods Breath, are not sentenced to Die.

Living Souls, entered into a body, Depart a body as the Body is Dying.

The dead body will begin decaying, Returning to dust of the earth from whence it came. (To wait for judgement)

The living soul...separated from the body...will go to a place God has prepared.

If the living soul WAS “With” God at the time the body died....The living soul will be escorted by angels to Heaven, Gods Throne. (To wait for judgement)

If the living soul WAS “Without /Against” God at the time the Body died...The living soul is Separated from God and sent to hell (to wait for judgement)

Living souls departed out of dead bodies, whether in heaven in comfort with God or in hell in discomfort without God...are
Fully alive functioning, seeing, hearing, tasting, speaking, emotional feeling Active Senses, (without their body and blood life), fully aware of their surroundings, of comfort or discomfort.

That is the Crux of Two life’s In a earthly man. Bodily blood Life and soul Life.

Man also has another life in him...called a “spirit of man”.
The “spirit of man” IS a mans Truth IN his Heart. (Thoughts)
- the mind of man is continually changing as the man learns new knowledge, thinks this, thinks that, agrees with this, disagrees with that, logically concludes what to believe on any given day, And change on any given day what he believes is true.

Whereas the hearts thoughts remain more constant in its truth, the mind wavers.

God offered mankind a Way For mankind to Know “Gods Truth.”
That IS a phenomenal mystery to a mans mind to comprehend. Yet step by step, bit by bit, little by little, over the course of history of mankind’s creation we have the advantage in these days to learn The knowledge of Gods truth ...
*And individually Accept His Truth “OR” Reject Gods Truth.

An individual man Obviously can NOT Accept what he does Not know.
Hearing / Reading / Verifying IS How an individual man Learns Gods TRUTH.

THEN...is an individual prepared to MAKE a (heartful Confession) Of Belief OF Gods TRUTH... or Rejection.

A individual who makes a True Heartful Confession of Belief IN Gods TRUTH...becomes the Recipent OF Gods Seed.

Gods Seed, “rebirths” the mans natural spirit (Truth), to Gods “born again” supernatural “forever living” Spiritual Truth of God.

That man IS advantaged to once and forever have the Spirit of God With the mans spirit.

When such a “born again” mans body dies...his forever living spirit departs his dying body and goes to the place God prepared...unto Gods hand IN heaven, to wait for judgement day.

And? The man without a “born again spirit” ? His natural Truth in his heart Naturally dies with his natural body.

*All body’s shall die.
*All living souls are still living, in living body’s, (some with and some without God), out of living body’s (some with and some without God,) those souls out of living body’s without God (are “called Dead” to Because they are Separated From God.)
*natural spirits (Not born again) die with the body.

*Gods offering of Salvation is to save a mans soul.
*Gods offering of Conversion is to rebirth a man spirit to everlasting life.
*God Promise is to Raise Up all dead Body’s, Judge them according to the Evidence...
*”Make” ...saved souls & born again spirts “Body’s” (glorified)...Perfect, void of all corruption...forever alive reunited with its saved soul & born again spirit & forever with (and able to SEE) God.

*all unsaved souls, natural spirits, natural body’s shall be ... (depending on “works” they Did while alive in their Body)...
Life in their soul returned to God and their lifeless soul and body Destroyed by fire...forever separated from God...and unaware.
•That ^ will apply to an individual man who willingly rejected Gods Truth.
or
Life remains in their soul, and cast into Utter Darkness, forever Separated from God...and fully aware.advocated,
•That ^ will apply to an individual man who willingly rejected Gods Truth AND advocated, taught, promoted, convinced, other men To Reject Gods Truth.

•The Whole of a man “body, soul, spirit”...Is the WHOLE Matter at hand.
•Gods offering...is to “make” a willing man Wholly Spiritual everlasting life With God In peace, comfort, joy... accomplished BY His Power...or an alternative of mans Whole Separation from from God forever...destroyed and unaware or soul life remains and in utter darkness and forever aware of his separation without God.

God is Just.
Every man will receive according to that mans own Truth.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

I think we agree to an extent here, yay! From all I've read, the Bible seems to consistently advocate the notion of resurrection where dead people are brought back to life again to be either rewarded with lasting life or punished with a 2nd death from which there is no resurrection.

not sure how you reconcile this with the op

 

[Cassandra]

I think we agree to an extent here, yay! From all I've read, the Bible seems to consistently advocate the notion of resurrection where dead people are brought back to life again to be either rewarded with lasting life or punished with a 2nd death from which there is no resurrection.

That is what it says to me too.

Makes me look at John 3:16 differently. "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
Looks like there is a condition on living eternally.
And My Bible says 1Tim 6:15-16
15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

And there are verses that talk about the dead not knowing anything, and they have no more portion in anything on earth.

Ecc 9:5-6 and 10 "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest."

They don't even praise God.
Ps 115:17 "The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence"

Makes me wonder what the ghosts that people see are?

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

It seems like the heavenly promise was made by Jesus to a select group as opposed to all believers of all time.

To all who believe in Christ goes the promise of Heaven which is the domain of God. Jesus said He is the LIFE and we are in Christ, thus the life exists in His spiritual realm.
Visions, dreams and visitations to heaven are life changing and nothing short of wonderful. Most everyone who has experienced heaven do not want to come back. Visually, from what I've gathered, it is very much like earth without the defects and evil. It is perfect. We see beautiful, picturesque samples of nature on earth and
are in awe. But as we look closer and closer we start to see flaws. From a distance it looks beautiful though.
I remember my first visit to Maui. I thought it was as close to Paradise as could be. I have been to Bora Bora too - awesome as well.
GOD gives us a taste of what heaven is on earth, though it is never perfect. Heaven is though. We can even see or even marry the most beautiful woman ... and hopefully she is that way on the inside too. But we all know she isn't perfect. No one is and so we all travel through life yearning for this perfection in everything: a perfect mate, perfect job, home, kids, health, food, etc. Sometimes we experience perfection here and there ... well perfect enough ... as good as it gets.
God gives us this desire in our hearts for a perfect world, perfect people, perfect relationships and some of us get close to that, but usually have to take the good with the bad and try to be content. We know it is temporary _ this physical realm _ so we all live with hope and faith and patiently wait for eternal perfection to come. Actually I feel like I have lived my life and am ready to go now. But that is up to God. He apparently has more for me to do. But when it is my time, my spirit will separate from my body/flesh and I will enter into the spiritual realm to be with all my loved ones who have passed and the LORD and all new loved ones. Imagine everyone you meet you love like you loved your mom or brother.
I can go into the nature of the soul in depth if you are interested. There is more to you than you see in the mirror.
There are many fascinating stories of people dying on the operating table or in an accident and then many minutes later being revived to tell of their experiences floating above their bodies, seeing light and being drawn to it. Jesus also said He is the LIGHT.
One book I read was fascinating "Heaven Is For Real". A little 4 year old boy, Carlton Burpo, visits heaven and comes back with stories that could not have been made up by him. They made a movie from the book - check it out.

 

[post]

Why DO Most Christians Believe Death is a Separation as Opposed to Cessation of Life?

because we understand that our existence and personhood cannot be explained solely through physical means.
therefore we are not under the delusion that our existence ceases when the body returns to dust.
we know we are more than a piece of flesh with some random electro-chemical processes.

i take it you're using a faulty definition of "life" eh?
but you mentioned John 11:25-26. take a closer look at what He says there. the one believing in Him will never die; even if they die, they will live.
He's not contradicting Himself. He's dumbing it down for your sake, so you can grasp it. there are two definitions of 'die' in this saying - yours, and God's. the stupid blind human definition, and the right definition.
because i believe Him, i will never die ((God's definition, which is correct)).
even if i die ((the idiotic blind humanistic monism definition, which is wrong)), i will live.

 

[Truth OT]

Why DO Most Christians Believe Death is a Separation as Opposed to Cessation of Life?

Because we believe the teaching of the Bible, and the Bible tells us that life goes on after physical death.

Matthew 22:31-32 YLT
31) 'And concerning the rising again of the dead, did ye not read that which was spoken to you by God, saying,
32) I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not a God of dead men, but of living.'

Jesus was answering some of the people who did not believe in the resurrection. In this New Testament passage, Jesus affirms the teaching of life that survives physical death in the Old Testament.

It appears that you are conflating the concept of a resurrection with life continuing after death when the 2 are far from one and the same. It seems that in scripture, the dead remain dead UNTIL they are raise BACK to life in a resurrection. While they are dead, they're actually NOT living.

 

[Truth OT]

Living Souls, entered into a body, Depart a body as the Body is Dying.

The scriptural support for this is sorely lacking. Instead, the scriptures say that man became a living soul, not that man has a living soul that comes into him.

not sure how you reconcile this with the op

Where's the issue?

To all who believe in Christ goes the promise of Heaven which is the domain of God. Jesus said He is the LIFE and we are in Christ, thus the life exists in His spiritual realm.

And this POV is backed in scripture, where?

because we understand that our existence and personhood cannot be explained solely through physical means.
therefore we are not under the delusion that our existence ceases when the body returns to dust.
we know we are more than a piece of flesh with some random electro-chemical processes.

You are seemingly projecting your beliefs into an explanation of what you want the scriptures to say. But do the scriptures ACTUALLY support such a stance? Me thinks not. Actually, we do NOT understand how our existence and personhood can be definitively and 100% accurately explained yet. Saying we do is at best a wishful reach and more likely just a flat out lie.

 

[bbyrd009]

Where's the issue?

The hope of the righteous that Jesus made possible according to how I currently understand scripture is not Heaven, but rather LIFE

I think we agree to an extent here, yay! From all I've read, the Bible seems to consistently advocate the notion of resurrection where dead people are brought back to life again to be either rewarded with lasting life or punished with a 2nd death from which there is no resurrection.

 

[post]

You are seemingly projecting your beliefs into an explanation of what you want the scriptures to say. But do the scriptures ACTUALLY support such a stance? Me thinks not. Actually, we do NOT understand how our existence and personhood can be definitively and 100% accurately explained yet. Saying we do is at best a wishful reach and more likely just a flat out lie.

oh cool, you're afraid. good.


refresher:
i answered the thread title like this --

because we understand that our existence and personhood cannot be explained solely through physical means.
therefore we are not under the delusion that our existence ceases when the body returns to dust.
we know we are more than a piece of flesh with some random electro-chemical processes.

and you left out the rest of what i said:

i take it you're using a faulty definition of "life" eh?
but you mentioned John 11:25-26. take a closer look at what He says there. the one believing in Him will never die; even if they die, they will live.
He's not contradicting Himself. He's dumbing it down for your sake, so you can grasp it. there are two definitions of 'die' in this saying - yours, and God's. the stupid blind human definition, and the right definition.
because i believe Him, i will never die ((God's definition, which is correct)).
even if i die ((the idiotic blind humanistic monism definition, which is wrong)), i will live.

pretending i hadn't said it.
so you replied asking 'do the scriptures really support such a stance'

what stance?
substance dualism.
vs your stance: humanistic evolutionary monism.

so you hid the meaning of your question, ignoring 2/3 of my post, taking the chance that this forum in general & in particular, i myself, won't understand what you are actually replying to. which is pretty insulting, to say the least: i wrote the dang post.

your question is this: does the Bible actually support substance dualism?
to which your reply is pitifully & wickedly willful ignorance: you said no; you stated it's a boldfaced lie to say the Bible supports substance dualism.

what is substance dualism? that man is not merely a physical being. that man also has a spiritual/soul component.
and you think the Bible does not support that?? you go on record with such nonsense??

good sir, the evidence is clear:
either my post went sailing over your head and you are not yet capable of having the conversation you started, or you are one pure idiot with no comprehension of scripture whatsoever.

 

[post]

And this POV is backed in scripture, where?

elementary.

John 14:6 + John 8:23

 

[post]

The scriptural support for this is sorely lacking. Instead, the scriptures say that man became a living soul, not that man has a living soul that comes into him.

God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life
(Genesis 2:7)

the breath of life
(Genesis 6:17)

the breath of life
(Genesis 7:15)

the breath of life
(Genesis 7:22)

in Whose hand is the soul of every living thing,
the breath of all mankind
(Job 12:10)

the breath of The Almighty
(Job 33:4)

by the breath of God
(Job 37:10)

they have all one breath
(Ecclesiastes 3:19)

He that giveth breath
(Isaiah 42:5)​

in Hebrew the word for 'breath' is the same as 'spirit' and 'wind'
in Greek the word for 'breath' is the same as 'spirit' and 'wind'

He breathed on them
(John 20:22)

He giveth to all breath and life
(Acts 17:25)

the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life
(Romans 8:6)

​

 

[Aunty Jane]

Makes me wonder what the ghosts that people see are?

The reason why God forbade contact with the spirit world is because these “ghosts” are demons who can masquerade as the spirits of the dead. Spirit mediums are those who have the “gift” of being able to communicate with these demonic spirits. If you read Deuteronomy 18:9-12, it outlines those practices that were common for the Canaanite inhabitants of the Promised Land but forbidden to God’s people.

“When you enter the land the Lord your God is giving you, be very careful not to imitate the detestable customs of the nations living there. For example, never sacrifice your son or daughter as a burnt offering. And do not let your people practice fortune-telling, or use sorcery, or interpret omens, or engage in witchcraft, or cast spells, or function as mediums or psychics, or call forth the spirits of the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the Lord. It is because the other nations have done these detestable things that the Lord your God will drive them out ahead of you.” (NLT)

If they were really spirits of your dead loved ones, then why would God forbid us to speak with them?