Why I believe in the rapture.

[David H.]

There are a lot of Questions when the rapture will take place, But the main reason i believe there will be a rapture is that this is how God has acted in the past.

The righteous chosen ones have never been allowed to see the wrath of God.
Noah was sealed in an ark, Lot and His family were told not to look back. Israel and their families were protected by the passover blood, and we as the church are made righteous by the blood of the lamb of God will be protected.

Whether this rapture is as they show in movies or some other form of protection I do not think Scripture is clear, but I do know the church, the saints will not witness the Wrath of God.... The wrath of Satan and the wrath of the lamb are two different things all together.

National Israel on the other hand will witness the wrath of God, and drink of the cup of the wrath of God till they are drunk and then be spared.

 

[Keraz]

Why I reject the rapture theory:

The belief and teaching that all humans have natural immortality via an immortal soul can be traced back thousands of years. We can see from history that nations like Egypt and Babylon taught their people about an immortal soul in every human, that continued to live, to think and to experience life, after the body had died. Depending on the nation and on their spiritual theology they had, would come various teachings about where and under what conditions this immortal soul would experience after the death of the physical body. Some nations would bury the dead body in graves with all kinds of things for the departed to take with them and to use to enjoy in the afterlife.

Different nations may have had different places where the departed soul would live when it left the dead body, but to put it in simple language, the immortal soul was in a "heaven" of some sort. They even had gloomy underworlds for those not thought to have done enough good in their physical lives to warrant the prize of "heaven."

All this should start to sound somewhat familiar with certain teaching and beliefs of many Christian churches and organizations. Many have heard the "hell-fire and brimstone" sermons preached loud and vigorously by a Christian minister or Camp-meeting tent revivalist. Such preaching of course includes telling you that if you "give your heart to the Lord" and turn from sin, you can "go to heaven" and live in bliss, doing...well they are not sure, maybe singing and strumming on a harp?

Just about all Christians today believe they shall "get to heaven" one day. They firmly believe that going to heaven is one of the basic rewards of being Christian. To think, and to teach

otherwise, to them, is pretty close to being a nutty and strange heretic. They are convinced the Bible shows and tells us that going to heaven is the automatic reward of the children of God. And most believe that going to heaven takes place when the physical body stops breathing and dies. Yet this common and prevailing theological view was not the common view or teaching of the early New Testament Church of God.

The early NT church did not teach or believe in going to heaven at death, for those faithful Christians. Church history shows that it was only through the teachings of people like Clement of Alexandria, Origen, and others that most professing Christians gradually came to adopt the belief of the immortal soul, and going immediately "somewhere" after the death of the body. Many were coming into the popular church of the Roman Empire, founded in Rome, who already held to Hellenistic philosophy, Egyptian mythology, and Babylonian Mystery religions, with an after death life of some sort as the foundation of it all. They did not want to give up this teaching and belief, just as they did not want to abandon many other false teachings and practices. So, to accommodate them the large popular church took many of these old pagan beliefs and re-clothed them with Christian garments. Hence, as the millenniums came and went today's doctrines of the immortal soul as taught together with an ever burning hell fire for the wicked, a purgatory for those who may not have sinned unto eternal torment, and can possibly yet be granted heaven and a heaven where God is, for the righteous. All this came to be church doctrines.

Most Christians believe they will at some point "get to heaven" where God is dwelling. Some do not believe you go to heaven at death, but that death is a sleep until the resurrection, then when Jesus returns to raise the righteous dead, all go back with Him to heaven for a thousand years, until the new earth comes into being. Others believe that Christ returns to "rapture" His Church away from the terrible tribulation then taking place on the earth, and that they spent either 7 years or 3 1/2 years in heaven, before returning again with Christ to set up the Kingdom of God on earth for a thousand years.

Whatever the various beliefs of certain religious sects and denominations is on this matter, just about all of them teach and believe that the good Christian will someday, for some period of time "go to heaven" where the Father lives and dwells in the heavenly Jerusalem.

IF WE SHALL GO TO HEAVEN ONE DAY....

And if this is a fundamental plain teaching of the Bible, then surely we should be able to find many verses all over the Bible saying things such as: "When we get to heaven," "When we see each other in heaven," "They are up there in heaven with God," "We shall go to heaven at Christ's return," "We shall be in heaven where God is one day." BUT VERSES LIKE THIS CANNOT BE FOUND IN THE BIBLE!

BUT, what we do read in the Bible is the Words of Jesus: No man goes to heaven, except the One who came from there. John 3:13 Where I go, you cannot come. John 7:34 Your home is in this world, Mine is not. John 8:23 I do not pray, Father, that You take them out of this world.... John 17:15

So the truth is, the idea of a 'rapture to heaven', is a straight out Satanic lie; one of his most successful ones, that will cause many unprepared Christians to fall on the Day of trial. 1 Peter 4:12, 1 Corinthians 3:13-15


Most Christians think that heaven is our destination and preachers tout it from the pulpit. Why then didn't the people of the Bible use such language? Could it be that they knew that going off to heaven where God the Father now dwells was NEVER promised to any earthy mortal person?

The word "heaven" is used 570 times in the Bible. "Heavenly" appears 23 times and "heavens" is used 121 times. Surely, somewhere, in all those uses we can find a statement: "When we are in heaven" or "We are going to go to heaven" or maybe "He has gone to God in heaven." If you take a Bible concordance you can find all the verses where "heaven," "heavenly," and heavens" are used throughout the Bible. Look them up! See if you can find a verse that says, "We shall go to heaven," "Heaven is our eternal abode," "They are up in heaven" or any plain statement about Christians or children of God going to be with God in heaven for ANY length of time. You have over 500 places where "heaven" is used. Try to find any verse that tells us clearly we shall someday, sometime, go to live where God the Father dwells.

There are THREE heavens mentioned in the Bible. 1) The heaven [atmosphere] where the birds fly. 2) the heaven [space] where the planets and stars are. 3) The heaven [spiritual] where God's throne is, where God is now.

I knew a man in Christ.... caught up to the THIRD heaven....He was caught up into Paradise, and heard unspeakable words....2 Cor. 12:2-4 The third heaven is where God dwells!


KINGDOM OF HEAVEN ?

Some will say, "Well Christ talked about our being in the Kingdom of heaven. Surely that proves we shall 'go to heaven'. If it does, then some shall be in heaven while others are not. Matthew 5:3-5. Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the Kingdom of heaven....blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. The Kingdom OF heaven is the Kingdom that BELONGS to heaven. It is owned and operated by heaven. the Kingdom that BELONGS to God, not the Kingdom inside God. The Gospels according to Mark and Luke use "Kingdom OF God"


OUR REWARD IS IN HEAVEN

Is not our reward to go to heaven? Are there not some verses that say something to that effect? Here they are: Rejoice, and be exceeding glad; for great is your reward in heaven.... Matthew 5:12 Do not display your religion before others, if you do you will have no reward from your Father in heaven. Matthew 6:1 But lay up for yourselves treasure in heaven.....Luke 6:23 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled…reserved in heaven for you. 1 Peter 1:4

Now, let's be honest. Do the above verses say: "Our reward is to get to heaven" or "When we get to heaven we shall be given our reward." Do these verses say: "Our reserved inheritance is to get to heaven to be with God" ? No, they do not! Truly, Christians will receive rewards and we are to inherit eternal life, but when? Eternal life comes at the resurrection. Read 1 Cor.15; Rev.2:10; 2 Tim.4:8 Our rewards are to be given to us by Christ at His return. And, behold, I come quickly, and MY REWARD IS WITH ME, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Rev. 22:12 Our rewards and inheritance are reserved in heaven. They come down out of heaven with Christ at his return.


NAMED TO GO TO HEAVEN?

Are not Christians named and written down in a book to go to heaven? ….but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven Luke 10:20 To the general assembly and church of

the firstborn, which are written in heaven....Heb. 12:23

Do these verses say, "Because you will go to heaven" or "The church of the firstborn will one day get to heaven" ? No! Our names (God knows who are His) are written down in the book of

life, the book of life being in heaven. But we receive life eternal after the Great White Throne Judgement, when the Book of Life is opened. Revelation 20:11-15

 

[Keraz]

OUR HOPE....TO GO TO HEAVEN?

For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof you heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel. Col.1:5 What is the hope for Christians? Paul answers in

another letter he wrote: But if there be NO RESURRECTION of the dead, then Christ is not risen. And if Christ is not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.....then they which are also fallen asleep in Christ are PERISHED....For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man on his own order: Christ the firstfruits: AFTERWARDS they that are Christ's AT HIS COMING. 1 Cor. 15: 13-23

Our HOPE is Christ, who has been raised from the dead and is now in heaven, waiting to be sent back to this earth when He shall reing as King for 1000 years.

Colossians 1:5 does NOT say, "Our hope is to get to heaven." Or "The church's hope is to be with Christ in heaven." It says: our HOPE is kept in heaven. That hope is Christ and His Return. Philippians 3:20 Christian believers are citizens of heaven and from heaven we can expect our Deliverer to come: The Lord Jesus Christ.

Notice! This Kingdom is in heaven that we are citizens of. If we be Christ's, we belong to His family. We are brothers of His, we are part of God's family, His children, and so of His government, kingdom, which is at present in heaven. Not that we are in heaven, for the reality is: we live on earth, but the Kingdom, where our citizenship is; that we now belong to, is in heaven.


NO MAN HAS EVER GONE TO HEAVEN

Here is a plain and easy to understand verse: And NO MAN has ASCENDED up to heaven, except for He that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. John 3:13 BELIEVE what Christ said, He should know. He was in heaven with the Father from the beginning, and He did not see any human ever come from earth up to heaven. It’s indisputable, Enoch could not have gone to the third heaven, neither did Moses, nor did Elijah. All humans who have ever lived, or will live, up to the Return of Jesus and are not still alive when Jesus comes, will sleep in death. They will be in the grave, and the martyrs, those killed for their faith, Revelation 20:4, wait to hear the voice of the Son of man, to rise from the dead in a resurrection. Then, for a thousand years they shall reign with Christ on His throne over this earth, as they establish the Kingdom of God on earth. Revelation 20:4

At the end of the thousand years comes the new heavens and the new earth. Then the heavenly Jerusalem together with God the Father will come from heaven to this new earth, which will then become the dwelling place of the throne of the universe for all Eternity.


What we can say is that we, the children of God, will one day be in heaven.....yes.....when heaven comes to earth. Revelation 21:1-4 But what we cannot say is that any human will be taken up to heaven to avoid the wrath to come. The Lord promises protection to all these who place their trust in Him and this may be a profound spiritual experience. Nahum 1:1-8, Isaiah 43:2, +

Ref: Keith Hunt

 

[GISMYS_7]

Why I reject the rapture theory:

The belief and teaching that all humans have natural immortality via an immortal soul can be traced back thousands of years. We can see from history that nations like Egypt and Babylon taught their people about an immortal soul in every human, that continued to live, to think and to experience life, after the body had died. Depending on the nation and on their spiritual theology they had, would come various teachings about where and under what conditions this immortal soul would experience after the death of the physical body. Some nations would bury the dead body in graves with all kinds of things for the departed to take with them and to use to enjoy in the afterlife.

Different nations may have had different places where the departed soul would live when it left the dead body, but to put it in simple language, the immortal soul was in a "heaven" of some sort. They even had gloomy underworlds for those not thought to have done enough good in their physical lives to warrant the prize of "heaven."

All this should start to sound somewhat familiar with certain teaching and beliefs of many Christian churches and organizations. Many have heard the "hell-fire and brimstone" sermons preached loud and vigorously by a Christian minister or Camp-meeting tent revivalist. Such preaching of course includes telling you that if you "give your heart to the Lord" and turn from sin, you can "go to heaven" and live in bliss, doing...well they are not sure, maybe singing and strumming on a harp?

Just about all Christians today believe they shall "get to heaven" one day. They firmly believe that going to heaven is one of the basic rewards of being Christian. To think, and to teach

otherwise, to them, is pretty close to being a nutty and strange heretic. They are convinced the Bible shows and tells us that going to heaven is the automatic reward of the children of God. And most believe that going to heaven takes place when the physical body stops breathing and dies. Yet this common and prevailing theological view was not the common view or teaching of the early New Testament Church of God.

The early NT church did not teach or believe in going to heaven at death, for those faithful Christians. Church history shows that it was only through the teachings of people like Clement of Alexandria, Origen, and others that most professing Christians gradually came to adopt the belief of the immortal soul, and going immediately "somewhere" after the death of the body. Many were coming into the popular church of the Roman Empire, founded in Rome, who already held to Hellenistic philosophy, Egyptian mythology, and Babylonian Mystery religions, with an after death life of some sort as the foundation of it all. They did not want to give up this teaching and belief, just as they did not want to abandon many other false teachings and practices. So, to accommodate them the large popular church took many of these old pagan beliefs and re-clothed them with Christian garments. Hence, as the millenniums came and went today's doctrines of the immortal soul as taught together with an ever burning hell fire for the wicked, a purgatory for those who may not have sinned unto eternal torment, and can possibly yet be granted heaven and a heaven where God is, for the righteous. All this came to be church doctrines.

Most Christians believe they will at some point "get to heaven" where God is dwelling. Some do not believe you go to heaven at death, but that death is a sleep until the resurrection, then when Jesus returns to raise the righteous dead, all go back with Him to heaven for a thousand years, until the new earth comes into being. Others believe that Christ returns to "rapture" His Church away from the terrible tribulation then taking place on the earth, and that they spent either 7 years or 3 1/2 years in heaven, before returning again with Christ to set up the Kingdom of God on earth for a thousand years.

Whatever the various beliefs of certain religious sects and denominations is on this matter, just about all of them teach and believe that the good Christian will someday, for some period of time "go to heaven" where the Father lives and dwells in the heavenly Jerusalem.

IF WE SHALL GO TO HEAVEN ONE DAY....

And if this is a fundamental plain teaching of the Bible, then surely we should be able to find many verses all over the Bible saying things such as: "When we get to heaven," "When we see each other in heaven," "They are up there in heaven with God," "We shall go to heaven at Christ's return," "We shall be in heaven where God is one day." BUT VERSES LIKE THIS CANNOT BE FOUND IN THE BIBLE!

BUT, what we do read in the Bible is the Words of Jesus: No man goes to heaven, except the One who came from there. John 3:13 Where I go, you cannot come. John 7:34 Your home is in this world, Mine is not. John 8:23 I do not pray, Father, that You take them out of this world.... John 17:15

So the truth is, the idea of a 'rapture to heaven', is a straight out Satanic lie; one of his most successful ones, that will cause many unprepared Christians to fall on the Day of trial. 1 Peter 4:12, 1 Corinthians 3:13-15


Most Christians think that heaven is our destination and preachers tout it from the pulpit. Why then didn't the people of the Bible use such language? Could it be that they knew that going off to heaven where God the Father now dwells was NEVER promised to any earthy mortal person?

The word "heaven" is used 570 times in the Bible. "Heavenly" appears 23 times and "heavens" is used 121 times. Surely, somewhere, in all those uses we can find a statement: "When we are in heaven" or "We are going to go to heaven" or maybe "He has gone to God in heaven." If you take a Bible concordance you can find all the verses where "heaven," "heavenly," and heavens" are used throughout the Bible. Look them up! See if you can find a verse that says, "We shall go to heaven," "Heaven is our eternal abode," "They are up in heaven" or any plain statement about Christians or children of God going to be with God in heaven for ANY length of time. You have over 500 places where "heaven" is used. Try to find any verse that tells us clearly we shall someday, sometime, go to live where God the Father dwells.

There are THREE heavens mentioned in the Bible. 1) The heaven [atmosphere] where the birds fly. 2) the heaven [space] where the planets and stars are. 3) The heaven [spiritual] where God's throne is, where God is now.

I knew a man in Christ.... caught up to the THIRD heaven....He was caught up into Paradise, and heard unspeakable words....2 Cor. 12:2-4 The third heaven is where God dwells!


KINGDOM OF HEAVEN ?

Some will say, "Well Christ talked about our being in the Kingdom of heaven. Surely that proves we shall 'go to heaven'. If it does, then some shall be in heaven while others are not. Matthew 5:3-5. Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the Kingdom of heaven....blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. The Kingdom OF heaven is the Kingdom that BELONGS to heaven. It is owned and operated by heaven. the Kingdom that BELONGS to God, not the Kingdom inside God. The Gospels according to Mark and Luke use "Kingdom OF God"


OUR REWARD IS IN HEAVEN

Is not our reward to go to heaven? Are there not some verses that say something to that effect? Here they are: Rejoice, and be exceeding glad; for great is your reward in heaven.... Matthew 5:12 Do not display your religion before others, if you do you will have no reward from your Father in heaven. Matthew 6:1 But lay up for yourselves treasure in heaven.....Luke 6:23 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled…reserved in heaven for you. 1 Peter 1:4

Now, let's be honest. Do the above verses say: "Our reward is to get to heaven" or "When we get to heaven we shall be given our reward." Do these verses say: "Our reserved inheritance is to get to heaven to be with God" ? No, they do not! Truly, Christians will receive rewards and we are to inherit eternal life, but when? Eternal life comes at the resurrection. Read 1 Cor.15; Rev.2:10; 2 Tim.4:8 Our rewards are to be given to us by Christ at His return. And, behold, I come quickly, and MY REWARD IS WITH ME, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Rev. 22:12 Our rewards and inheritance are reserved in heaven. They come down out of heaven with Christ at his return.


NAMED TO GO TO HEAVEN?

Are not Christians named and written down in a book to go to heaven? ….but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven Luke 10:20 To the general assembly and church of

the firstborn, which are written in heaven....Heb. 12:23

Do these verses say, "Because you will go to heaven" or "The church of the firstborn will one day get to heaven" ? No! Our names (God knows who are His) are written down in the book of

life, the book of life being in heaven. But we receive life eternal after the Great White Throne Judgement, when the Book of Life is opened. Revelation 20:11-15

Rapture rejectors will be left behind. Jesus says He will rapture only those that are looking for Him.
Hebrews 9:28 Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to""" those who are waiting for him""".

 

[GISMYS_7]

Rapture rejectors will be left behind. Jesus says He will rapture only those that are looking for Him.
Hebrews 9:28 Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to""" those who are waiting for him""".

Thessalonians 4:13-18
Believers Who Have Died
13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be """caught up""" together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

 

[David H.]

@Keraz please explain the following in light of what you posted.

Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. (John 14:1-3)

Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. (John 17:24)

Also, Martyrs and soul sleep?

What about those Martyrs whose souls are under the alter crying out to God "How long O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth" if the dead are in a state of "soul sleep"? (Revelation 6:10) where is this Alter located?

Paul clearly lays this sort of theory to bed in the following:

Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. (1 Corinthians 15:12-19)

 

[Keraz]

Rapture rejectors will be left behind.

Yay! I'm so happy. I will be able to do what the Lord really wants His people to do on earth. Matthew 5:4-16, John 15:27
Eternal harp practice for you, Gismys!

@Keraz please explain the following in light of what you posted.

John 14:1-3;
The word "mansions" sends the imagination of the modern reader fluttering. Yes, the idea of a large palatial home in Heaven sounds wonderful, but that is not at all what is being promised here. In Christ's time the word "mansion" was used to mean a tent. Like the ones the Roman military would use when they were marching as they moved from place to place. A very small, easy to carry dwelling place. A tarp with a stick really. Not very grand. A "mansion" actually became a unit of measurement based on how far the army could march before they set up this tent at night.

In the time of the translation of the KJV a mansion had come to mean an apartment house. A house with many dwelling places in it. Thinking that they recognized the message being conferred here, that the Father's house has many dwelling places in it, like an apartment house, they interpretatively translated mone to mansions. But really they just butchered the text to now read as if to say "The Father's House" (an apartment house with many rooms) contains many mansions (apartment houses with many rooms).
A mansion as referring to a large palatial single family house is a fairly modern definition. This is classic example of how meanings have changed over the last 400 years. We should ignore ‘mansions’ and substitute the word 'rooms' in vs 2. Then read the rest of the chapter soberly to understand what Jesus is saying. He does a long Q & A on what was said in vs 1- 3 in the rest of the chapter. We don't have to interpret what he says, he plainly tells us the interpretation.

Those found worthy will inhabit those rooms in the new Jerusalem; AFTER the Millennium. Revelation 21:1-7

What about those Martyrs whose souls are under the alter crying out to God "How long O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth" if the dead are in a state of "soul sleep"? (Revelation 6:10) where is this Alter located?

Altar, not alter!
In heaven, as stated in Revelation 19:1. They are dead people and it is only their souls, their spiritual entity, is kept in that place of honor. God does allow them to cry out at times, but it isn't until Jesus Returns that those killed during the final 42 months before the Return, will be the ones who will be brought back to life. Revelation 20:4.
The rest await the GWT Judgment, after the Millennium. Then; they will all be conferred with Eternal life.
ALL the dead are in 'soul sleep' and know nothing. Eccl 9:5-6, Isaiah 38:9-20

In 1 Corinthians 15:12-19, Paul does not say when the resurrection will happen. We get that information from Revelation 20:11-15
AFTER the Millennium!

 

[GISMYS_7]

LOL I don't think God will have His family living in heaven in a single wide mobil home but if that is what you expect and want maybe so.

 

[David H.]

In 1 Corinthians 15:12-19, Paul does not say when the resurrection will happen. We get that information from Revelation 20:11-15
AFTER the Millennium!

If the resurrection of the saints does not occur until after the millennium then whois it that will rule and reign with Christ a thousand years? (Revelation 20:1-6) The great white throne Judgment is the second resurrection, and you do not want to be a part of this for this is the resurrection of damnation (John 5:29) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. (Revelation 20:6)

You have here conferred what your mind thinks, and what is a teaching of man regarding these things I ask now what is it that the holy Spirit is teaching those who read these things? For He will give you the understanding of the Mysteries of Scripture that man can postulate with his mind the meaning of, arriving at all manner of conclusions. Ultimately these things are mysteries even to the carnal mind of man which is unable to fully grasp them, but the Holy Spirit will reveal the truth to you. when we die, does our soul "go to heaven" to be with the Lord where he is as was his request in the high priestly prayer or some sort of soulsleep where they are held until the resurrection? The resurrection is a bodily thing not just a soulish resurrection. We who are alive and remain are transformed and given new bodies. Just like Jesus Himself our tombs and graves will be empty. The soul itself upon death goes to heaven to await the resurrection of the body when Jesus comes to rule and reign.

 

[Keraz]

If the resurrection of the saints does not occur until after the millennium then whois it that will rule and reign with Christ a thousand years?

It will be living Christians who will be with Jesus in the Millennium. Rev 5:9-10
Also the GT martyrs, as Rev 20:4 says.

Revelation 20:5 very plainly states that the rest of the dead must wait for the GWT Judgment; AFTER the Millennium.

LOL I don't think God will have His family living in heaven in a single wide mobil home but if that is what you expect and want maybe so.

As at no time do we Christians go to live in heaven, your nonsense reply is useless.
After the Millennium, the New Jerusalem will come to the earth. That will be the home of the righteous. Revelation 21 to 22

 

[GISMYS_7]

The evil God rejectors will be raised after the millennium and judged and cast into the lake of fire!Revelation 20:5 very plainly states that the rest of the dead must wait for the GWT Judgment; AFTER the Millennium.

 

[Truth7t7]

It will be living Christians who will be with Jesus in the Millennium. Rev 5:9-10
Also the GT martyrs, as Rev 20:4 says.

Revelation 20:1-6 Isnt A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Dont Be Deceived

Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[Keraz]

Revelation 20:1-6 Isnt A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Dont Be Deceived

The the right place for the Amill theory; is in the round bin!
Your own quote of Revelation 20, proves it. The idea that we are already in the Millennium, is disproved by the nearly 2000 years of this age.

 

[David H.]

It will be living Christians who will be with Jesus in the Millennium. Rev 5:9-10
Also the GT martyrs, as Rev 20:4 says.

Revelation 20:5 very plainly states that the rest of the dead must wait for the GWT Judgment; AFTER the Millennium.

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. (Revelation 20:6)

For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. (1 Corinthians 15:23)

All You are doing is denying the resurrection of the dead at Christ's coming, Thus denying the testimony of scripture. the first resurrection is the resurrection of life, the second is the resurrection of Damnation as per John 5:29.....

25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
John 5:25-29

Simply put, the first resurrection is the resurrection of life, which results in eternal life, the second resurrection is the resurrection of Damnation which leads to the GWTJ and the Second death. (Revelation 20:14)

 

[Truth7t7]

The the right place for the Amill theory; is in the round bin!
Your own quote of Revelation 20, proves it. The idea that we are already in the Millennium, is disproved by the nearly 2000 years of this age.

When Jesus Christ Returns It Will Be (The End) Not The Start Of A Millennial Kingdom On Earth

As scripture clearly teaches below in 1 Corinthinas 15:23-24 , when Jesus Christ returns then comes (The End)

Many disregard (Then Cometh The End) as they desire to see a mortal Millennial Kingdom on earth, after the coming of Jesus Christ

afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. "Then Cometh The End" not a Millennial Kingdom on this earth as many falsely claim

(Then Cometh The End)

(Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory)

1 Corinthians 15:21-26 & 51-54KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

[Keraz]

Simply put, the first resurrection is the resurrection of life, which results in eternal life, the second resurrection is the resurrection of Damnation which leads to the GWTJ and the Second death. (Revelation 20:14)

Simply wrong.
The First Resurrection was Jesus, When He Returns from heaven, He will bring the souls of the Trib martyrs with Him. They will be brought back to life.
The rest of the dead await the GWT Judgment, after the Millennium. Revelation 20:5-15

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Here is where you go right off the rails.
When does Jesus get final and total control? AFTER the last attack, as described in Revelation 20:7-10
THEN; all the people who have ever lived will be raised to stand before God on His Great White Throne.

 

[solway]

There are a lot of Questions when the rapture will take place, But the main reason i believe there will be a rapture is that this is how God has acted in the past.
...............
...............
National Israel on the other hand will witness the wrath of God, and drink of the cup of the wrath of God till they are drunk and then be spared.

(Humanity is not Entitled to a Sign or a Vision, beyond the "Rotting of the Body")

Valid - Noah and his Family, and the Animals, a Picture of the Rapture ***** Gospel's Tables, not completely disadvantaged with God, in a "dead flesh accusation"
Invalid - Job (book of job)....however, Job's Family was unclean and filthy...Humanity at that time was filthy, God did nothing more then Rot their Bodies away.

Valid - Ezekiel ... and the Temple of his Day, God used as a Picture of the Rapture
Invalid - Jeremiah ... the Temple Fell to Babylon, and God did nothing but Rot their bodies away.

Humanity
1. Suicide Pleasure - The Theory of God with Humanity serves two purposes largely, its a mechanism to use someone for pleasure or payment of sin.............and a mechanism to dehumanize, cause suffering and death, for pleasure, comfort, or advantage.
2. Glory Murder - "Dispensation" is when God uses one mechanism or another to pass down spiritual blessing...........with humanity, it desires to use "murder" only as its dispensation, but in reality, its cut off spiritually from sensitivity in its own sin, and gradually dies and rots away accordingly.............this is turncoated into an average livespan so its very seductive.

Valid - The New Testament, Jesus was a Picture of a Rapture, the Rising Dead, and the Clouds and People in the Clouds
Invalid - Revelation, God's Angels are SILENT, and Satan is given the Rotting of the Body

(Unfortunately - Those unclean genetic lines, are grouped at earth energy centers, and in considerable numbers ........... we'll just have to keep watch, but we expect to see them run with rabies from those areas, and fester somewhere else temporarily................in reality, don't expect the value of a jewish life to mean anything if they are striken considerably as a people, jerusalem will fall quickly, considering that environment of sin there, when they try to run away they will all be killed, this is, not uncommon and has happened before)

(Another Unfortunate - God doesn't respond to humanity directly, in a cyclical capacity, especially with a sign or a vision............God's timetable of reaction is finished already.............things are set into motion, but nothing else has to happen................understanding that humanity is going to die, and it has about 40 years left...........let me make this clear about what is important.............work hard, enjoy yourself, find a good hobby, play civil rights, be an idiot.............because.............humanity as a whole is not considered a whole person, its mentally ill, spiritually ill, there is a big divide between the people god's saves and the rest of humanity.................not a divide measured in intelligence, opportunity, economy...........a divide according to god's mercies afforded to individuals only)

 

[David H.]

The First Resurrection was Jesus, When He Returns from heaven, He will bring the souls of the Trib martyrs with Him. They will be brought back to life.

FALSE.
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Jesus is the firstfruits of the first resurrection, this resurrection is ongoing until Jesus comes again, when those souls will receive their heavenly bodies, and rule and reign with Christ a thousand years. That is why "THEY" are blessed.

But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. (1 Corinthians 15:23)

 

[Enoch111]

afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. "Then Cometh The End" not a Millennial Kingdom on this earth as many falsely claim

Since the Millennium is clearly revealed in Revelation 20, you are the one who is FALSELY CLAIMING that there is no Millennium. Therefore you have identified yourself as a false teacher by denying what the Bible affirms.

BEWARE OF FALSE TEACHERS IS WHAT CHRISTIANS ARE WARNED ABOUT.

​

 

[CharismaticLady]

There are a lot of Questions when the rapture will take place, But the main reason i believe there will be a rapture is that this is how God has acted in the past.

The righteous chosen ones have never been allowed to see the wrath of God.
Noah was sealed in an ark, Lot and His family were told not to look back. Israel and their families were protected by the passover blood, and we as the church are made righteous by the blood of the lamb of God will be protected.

Whether this rapture is as they show in movies or some other form of protection I do not think Scripture is clear, but I do know the church, the saints will not witness the Wrath of God.... The wrath of Satan and the wrath of the lamb are two different things all together.

National Israel on the other hand will witness the wrath of God, and drink of the cup of the wrath of God till they are drunk and then be spared.

Sorry but you are confusing tribulation with wrath. Not the same thing. Read the letters to the seven churches in Revelation chapters two and three. These are church ages and the last four are the start of denominations. Thyatira is the RCC and Orthodox. The last four overlap each other and go to the second coming. When you read them you will see that some of them still need to overcome and repent. That is what the Great Tribulation is for, (if living), and also for the salvation of all Israel when their partial blindness is removed.

James 1:2-4
My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience. But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing.