Why Jesus did not come to save everyone

[John Zain]

Why everyone is not invited to salvation

In case you missed it, Paul spent 14 years in the desert places (see Acts) ...
being trained by the Lord in spiritual Truth before really hooking up with the church at Jerusalem.

He says that man has no excuse for not recognizing God: in nature, in the heavens, and in his conscience.
I.E. Man has no excuse for not seeing there is a Creator God, and for not wanting to follow and please Him.

He also says that natural man is at enmity with (an enemy of) God.

He also says that natural man who is perishing spiritually sees the message of the gospel as “foolishness”.
Now, just what does this have to do with any kind of free will? Does natural man choose to see it as foolishness?

Others have said that it takes a miracle for man to want to follow God vs. following his own fallen nature.

I know there are plenty of verses which say that man has a choice.
But, the Lord sees man's heart ... and He knows who He desires to save.
All of those “anyone”s who can believe the foolish gospel simply have been elected by God to believe.

All men are not created the same ... witness how Paul quotes Isaiah re: the potter and the clay.
Many verses tell us exactly the attributes of those whom the Lord desires to have with Him in heaven.
God saw Pharaoh's hardened heart and He knew what choices Pharaoh would make because of it,
so He merely hardened it further.

But, those who actually choose God ... have been given the ability, desire, etc. by the Lord.
Also, man appearing to have the freedom to choose warrants evangelists going to the 4 corners of the earth.
And the Lord Himself personally revealed to me the 2 reasons why He insists on the lost being evangelized:
(1) The elect must hear the gospel in order for them to respond to it. (Note: this is God's plan of salvation.)
(2) The non-elect must hear the gospel so they cannot complain at the Judgment that they never heard it.

Re (1): The illusion that man appears to be free to choose the gospel hides the ugly Truth (to us)
that it is God who chooses. Remember, Jesus said that He chose us and not the other way around.

But THE KEY to this whole deal is:
--- Man has a terribly-flawed human sin nature, which destines him to be separated from God.
--- God, therefore, owes no man anything, which is another ugly Truth (to us).
--- God has the authority to do whatever He damn well pleases. Sorry for putting it so bluntly.

All in all, to me, the evidence weighs quite heavily on the side of foreknowledge, predestination, election, etc.

 

[jiggyfly]

The scriptures declare that Jesus the lamb of God did indeed come to take away the sins of the world, to seek the lost, and reconcile/ restore all things back to God the Father.
Now I do agree with you on your post when applied only to this age, the age of ekklesia, but there are ages to come in which the scriptures declare that finally every knee will bow and tongue confess allegiance to God and all things rest in being reconciled with God.

 

[John Zain]

Now I do agree with you on your post when applied only to this age, the age of ekklesia,
but there are ages to come in which the scriptures declare that finally every knee will bow and tongue
confess allegiance to God and all things rest in being reconciled with God.

Thank you ...
but what does people in Hell acknowledging that Jesus is Lord, etc. have to do with this topic of election?

 

[jiggyfly]

Thank you ...
but what does people in Hell acknowledging that Jesus is Lord, etc. have to do with this topic of election?

That is my point, the elect in the NT only applies to the Ekklesia and is not inclusive of all that are reconciled to God.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I have taught this so often of late but here goes once more!

If a man will spend time in the study of the Word of God with Prayer he will learn, through the guidence of the Holy Spirit that there is a rule in Hermeneutics teaching that no verse nor group of verses can be understood without the light of all other scripture shinning on it.

The Bible is the same today as it was when Jesus taught from the Books He inspired men to write. This makes the New
Testament, inspired by te same, unchanging, God (Mal. 3:6a) the best Life Application Commentary ever written on the Bible! Our Bible today is the contenuous work of the LORD our God and has one continuous context from beginning to end. God created all men equal, for all are in Adam.

Election is a very important and oft misunderstoo9d doctrine because of the lack of Spirit led, prayerful, study. The two most popular positions, both, to some extent correct and to some extent wrong can both be corrected and reconciled to the truth. The truth, and both sides of this un-Spirit filled argument know the selected scriptures they use to make their vain arguments and some even know the ones they ignore to make their man-made, Satan filled arguments. If you are one of the loess educated, on either side, buy a hard copoy or download a free copy of the Nave´s Topical and please do the study on the topic. God has written the names in the Book of Life of every man and woman that will ever choose to follow Him because for God, there is no Time/Space Contiuum.

To elaborate, God is! There is no limit to the power of God and He is in the present, the past and the future... right now! Jesus came that every man and woman would have their debt owed to God paid. Universalism? God forbid! No, it is best illustrated by a man´s case in the state of Texas, in the fifties.

The man was and had been found guilty of murder and sentenced to death. His Law Team, against his wishes, had exhausted every appeal. Still, in spite of his wishes, the President of the US was patitioned for a full pardon. In the fifties the deaqth sentence, as today, was carried out in Huntsville. Before the date the Full Pardon was delivered but the man refused to accept it. After the case was reviewed by the US Supreme Court it was decided that the Pardon was not good if it was not received and accepted by the paroled. He was put to death, just as he wished. It is this same way with the Lost Man.

 

[jiggyfly]

I have taught this so often of late but here goes once more!

If a man will spend time in the study of the Word of God with Prayer he will learn, through the guidence of the Holy Spirit that there is a rule in Hermeneutics teaching that no verse nor group of verses can be understood without the light of all other scripture shinning on it.

The Bible is the same today as it was when Jesus taught from the Books He inspired men to write. This makes the New
Testament, inspired by te same, unchanging, God (Mal. 3:6a) the best Life Application Commentary ever written on the Bible! Our Bible today is the contenuous work of the LORD our God and has one continuous context from beginning to end. God created all men equal, for all are in Adam.

Election is a very important and oft misunderstoo9d doctrine because of the lack of Spirit led, prayerful, study. The two most popular positions, both, to some extent correct and to some extent wrong can both be corrected and reconciled to the truth. The truth, and both sides of this un-Spirit filled argument know the selected scriptures they use to make their vain arguments and some even know the ones they ignore to make their man-made, Satan filled arguments. If you are one of the loess educated, on either side, buy a hard copoy or download a free copy of the Nave´s Topical and please do the study on the topic. God has written the names in the Book of Life of every man and woman that will ever choose to follow Him because for God, there is no Time/Space Contiuum.

To elaborate, God is! There is no limit to the power of God and He is in the present, the past and the future... right now! Jesus came that every man and woman would have their debt owed to God paid. Universalism? God forbid! No, it is best illustrated by a man´s case in the state of Texas, in the fifties.

The man was and had been found guilty of murder and sentenced to death. His Law Team, against his wishes, had exhausted every appeal. Still, in spite of his wishes, the President of the US was patitioned for a full pardon. In the fifties the deaqth sentence, as today, was carried out in Huntsville. Before the date the Full Pardon was delivered but the man refused to accept it. After the case was reviewed by the US Supreme Court it was decided that the Pardon was not good if it was not received and accepted by the paroled. He was put to death, just as he wished. It is this same way with the Lost Man.

Can you define what the term "hermeneutics" means to you? You say "The Bible is the same today as it was when Jesus taught from the Books He inspired men to write.", which is not congruent with the history of the bible, unless of course you meant something different than how you posted it.

Ahhhh, do you believe that God's ways are subordinate to man's ways. No offense but the US Supreme court has no say so when it comes to who is reconciled.
The scriptures clearly tell us that all things have been reconciled back to God by Christ and that God has the patience to wait for everyone to accept what Christ has done so that in the end every knee shall bow and every tongue will confess allegiance to Him to God's glory.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Christ's sacrifice is sufficient to pay for the sins of all men. Legally all are forgiven, and will receive cleansing if they come to the light. Unfortunately for the ungodly they love darkeness more than light, and so their sins will remain with them forever. Imagine the horror when those banished to eternal darkness realize they were forgiven, but threw it away.

 

[John Zain]

I've heard all of the arguments against Calvinism, and used to believe them 100%.
Now, I'm having second thoughts.

However, the thread title obviously is 1/2 true (at least I got something right).
(1) The Triune God knew that Jesus' gospel wouldn't come even close to saving everyone.
So, He didn't come to save everyone, that's for sure.
(2) However, Jesus didn't come at all ... half of Him (the human part) didn't anyway.
Who came was the logos (the Word), the second Manifestation of the Trinity.
Should They be called "Persons"? I though all spirit beings are sexless.

But, if unconditional election is not true, what do we do with the verses?
Do we simply say that God knows everyone's hearts, so He elects whom He likes?
Or is there more to it than that?

Please don't lose any sleep over any of this.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I agree with everything you say except the title "Why everyone is not invited to salvation". God commands all men to repent. But I would clarify a point by saying God chooses whom he wills in order to glorify himself.