Why The Law?

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Netchaplain

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Would it not serve to be unfair in sending souls into the battlefield short of informing them of how to identify the enemy? For the Christian, all opposition derives itself from three foundations of source; self (old self), Satan and society. I also believe this accounting is in the proper order of priority.

Yes, “the enemy within” (old man) is the greatest danger, for not only is it where accountability is incurred but I’m convinced the other two enemies must enter through this passage (old self or sinful nature) to reach the saint. Regardless of the evil which God reveals in and to the believer concerning the sinful nature, we must always be mindful that “the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound” (Rom 5:20). “That the offence might abound” or shows us to learn the depths of our sin source, in order to continue to learn the heights of God holiness. “Grace did much more abound” is where faith in Christ’s expiation is progressively tested, resulting only towards maturity.
[SIZE=14pt]Why The Law?[/SIZE]​
We might consider the question, “What is the proof of the law?” If God meant to give the inheritance by promise, why bring in the law? If you examine the dealings of God with His people in the early days, He promised them a blessing, and they took it without looking at themselves to see whether they deserved it or not. This unquestioning confidence is all very blessed; but it is not for a man’s good not to know what he is. It is of great moment that I should learn what my condition really is*.

Now the object of the law was to bring out the sinner’s true condition of soul; not at all to bring him into blessing, but to bring out the fearful ruin into which man had got by sin*. The law was not meant to be the rule of life; indeed, it is rather the rule of death (Gal 3:10 – NC). If a man had no such thing as sin, it might be the rule of life; but he being a sinner*, it is an absurd misnomer to call it the rule of life.

“Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgression” (Gal 3:19). It is not said, “because of sins.” God never would do anything to make one a sinner—but “it was added because of transgressions.” What’s the difference? Sin is in every child of Adam; sin was in man before the law, as much as after. When the whole world was corrupt—when all flesh became so violent that God was obliged to judge it by the flood, it is too clear that they were all sinners. After He gave the law to Israel, they were no longer merely sinners, but became transgressors (which would have been the same for any people, as evidenced by the world’s ways since Christ). Rebels against God’s authority, they became actual violators of His law*.

“Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners” (1Tim 1:9). Whoever was made righteous by the law? Is he an honest man who merely refrains from taking your watch for fear of being locked up? The only really honest person is he who has the fear of God before his eyes. The law has the effect of punishing those that break it, but it is not what makes a man honest even in a human sense, much less in the divine. Through the faith of Christ one becomes a new man, the possessor of a new life which is dependent and obedient, loving to do the will of the Father because He wishes it, and not merely through dread of going to hell*.

If you take the law as well as the Lord Jesus, you become at least half a Jew. Actually, you become a spiritual adulterer (Rom 7:1-4). We are called to look at the Lord Jesus, and Him only—He being the source of our life (Col 3:4; 2Cor 3:18). He is the one who creates, and fashions, and constitutes every particle of righteousness and life that the believer possess. So the apostle Paul prays that they might be more and more “filled with the fruits of righteousness.” The natural man would allow the need of the works of righteousness which are demanded by the law*; but he knows nothing of those “fruits of righteousness which are by Jesus Christ unto the glory and praise of God” (Phil 1:11). The law was the rule of death for the sinner; the Lord Jesus Christ is the rule of life for the saint.

“Wherefore then serveth the law?” The law “was added because of transgressions, till the seed (Christ) should come to whom the promise was made”* (Gal 3:19). God was pleased to use this platform negatively for a time (Acts 17:30 - NC); but now the Seed is come, and the platform is gone concerning the Christian—the believer has died to it*. It is all-important for convicting the sinner, the standard of what a sinful man ought to do for God. But it is neither the reflection of God nor the pattern for the saints; the Lord Jesus is both, and He only.

- Wm Kelly


Poster’s Notes:

*”learn what my condition really is”: It’s not for the believer to only be aware of the indwelling sin nature (old man) but to own up to it while the Spirit of God opposes it in us, which is in accordance to our “yielding to God” (Gal 5:17; Rom 6:13, 19); which nature was manifested even prior to the “transgression” (Gen 3:6; Rom 5:14; 1Tim 2:14).

It is interesting to note the consistency of Scripture by seeing how Genesis 3:6 and 1John 2:16 directly collate:
“The woman saw that the tree was good for food” / “the lust of the flesh.”
“It was pleasant to the eyes” / “the lust of the eyes.”
“A tree to be desired to make one wise” / “the pride of life.”

*”got by sin”: since the law reveals the offence, “the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression” (Rom 4:15). Learning the wrong incurs accountability, hence Christ’s statement, “If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin.” And, “If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin” (John 15:22, 24). I believe this is why many would rather not know the wrong they do, because “It would be better if they had never known the way to righteousness than to know it and then reject the command they were given to live a holy life” (2Pet 2:21 NLT).

*”being a sinner”: the value of a work consists not in the doing as much as it does within its intent (Heb 4:12; Mat 12:35). Therefore the new nature (new man) by the Spirit of God is what causes believers to bring forth works always with good intention, which is more significant than the outcome of the work, which may not necessarily be correct due to the effect of the old nature.

*”violators of His law”: God’s revelation to Israel (who were a type-representative of mankind) concerning their guilt was too show their need for Him, through revealing not only their condemnation but also redemption from it.

*”dread of going to hell”: though many initially seek God to avoid hell, which is a show of belief in God and in His Word concerning hell, they eventually learn that it is, “the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance” (Rom 2:4), and it is in His “goodness” that He teaches us His love! It’s obvious that those who do not seek God do not believe in hell, otherwise there would no doubt be a different outcome for most. One never stumbles onto truth, for it must be sought to be found (Mat 7:7), thus condemnation is “inexcusable” apart from Christ.

*”works of righteousness which are demanded by the law”: which are required by God, not to man but to Christ, which is manifest in His “propitiation,” and which can only be performed by One who is without a sin nature, thereby amplifying the strength of our faith in His atonement alone for receiving and retaining our salvation.

*”the believer has died to it”: how could one who was never under the law die to it? For the Gentile it refers to the moral law of God (Gen 2:16, 17), which all have always been under. The Gentiles were those “that are without law” e.g. Moses’ Law of God, but were never “without law to God” (1Cor 9:21) e.g. were always accountable to God for morality towards one another. Godliness traverses beyond morality, in that it is the conduct of man towards man, rather than conduct of man towards God.
 

Netchaplain

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I can under the reasons why people would think that the Eze/Jer prophecies would relate also to the Gentile believers, and I can understand why they relate solely to those of Israel blood posterity. I also realize the obscurity of Scriptures relating to this issue, but I believe God is gradually demonstrating His revelation in His Word concerning this very significant teaching.

I've been for a long time now attempting to biblically determine this issue without spiritualizing Israel to be the Church because I'm best convinced by Scripture confirmation, which for this issue supports mostly that the prophecies mentioned above are Jewish when taken as they read. I'll just share why my understanding is where it is by looking at a model that is apart from spiritualizing and that relates to the mandates of these prophecies.

"I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah." If this covenant included Gentiles there's no sensible reason why they are never mentioned concerning this final covenant with Israel. Plus the covenant Jesus revealed, which is in His "Blood" clearly includes every believer, as revealed in the Gospels. Christ's Blood covenant is not with Israel nor the Gentiles, but with the Father, which is another obscure teaching in Scripture but nonetheless true. If it were a covenant between Jesus and man I believe He would plainly state it just as the prior and future covenant is stated. Hence, this prophetic new covenant of Israel has yet to occur.

"Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers." Clear confirmation that their final covenant will be similar to the prior covenant, which include statues, ordinances and judgments, which are not related in the Blood covenant because it is not law-centric (Jer 31:33); and law (in the specific sense, i.e. ordinances etc,) and grace are separate systems (John 1:17).

Israel (those who believe in God, but not in Christ until they see Him when these prophecies will take place) will never cease to be a nation on this earth, nor in the new earth (Jer 31:36, 37). When these prophecies occur it will include at least most of the last surviving descendants of Israel.
 

heretoeternity

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Romans 2 it is not hearers of the law which are justified, but doers of the law....and in Romans "do we make void the law through faith? God forbid. We establish the law"
 

Netchaplain

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heretoeternity said:
Romans 2 it is not hearers of the law which are justified, but doers of the law....and in Romans "do we make void the law through faith? God forbid. We establish the law"
Hi HTE - Like your ID! I believe the law, esp. the Decalogue presents a portion of God's will, which Scripture teaches that if it is to be kept it must be perfectly, e.g. with a sinless nature. Hence the need for Christ's law-keeping, but not to impute righteousness from it but from Himself--His own righteousness--not that which is of the law, for "the law is not of faith" (Gal 3:12), and "The man that doeth them shall live in them," which is a hyperbolic expression that "if he could do them, he would live in them.

This answers to the reason why "a man is not justified by the works of the law" (Gal 2:16), because no person, even in Christian obedience to Christ in our new nature (because the old nature still abides, but no longer as a ruler), can perform this perfectly. But this is not expected of God of us and wishes that we desire to do His pleasure above all things (Phil 2:13).

This is the believer's manner of life, and Christ's life which is ours (Col 3:4), expiates our lives from the ongoing sinful nature ("old man"). Thus it is in desiring His will over all things, which desire He "works" in us, and not the weighty attempts to live a perfect life that God wills.
 

Netchaplain

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Concerning the Jer/Eze prophecies, they unavoidably refer solely to Patriarchal descendants and their offspring, e.g. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. I believe the intention of God's persistence with these, esp. concerning Israel is to confirm the permanency of His words to the world through His union with Abraham and the lineage of his blood posterity.

It's my conception that God's confirmation of an unbreakable union with believers is the most important issue concerning His Word to us and our conscientious eternal security in Him, and this is well demonstrated in His union with His people whom He first used to reach the world.

Of course among those whom He has called within the nation of the last Patriarch (Israel), He chose only those whom He knew would be believers to be the soul representation of His people until Christ!
 

H. Richard

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NetChaplian, keep up the good work for Jesus. It is refreshing to hear what you write. So many will not believe that salvation is a work of God and not of man.

Blessings
 

Netchaplain

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H. Richard said:
NetChaplian, keep up the good work for Jesus. It is refreshing to hear what you write. So many will not believe that salvation is a work of God and not of man.

Blessings
Thanks for the complementing encouragement! The Enemy needs not to work against those who are his (all unsaved), only those who aren't. God bless!
 

heretoeternity

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NetChaplain said:
Hi HTE - Like your ID! I believe the law, esp. the Decalogue presents a portion of God's will, which Scripture teaches that if it is to be kept it must be perfectly, e.g. with a sinless nature. Hence the need for Christ's law-keeping, but not to impute righteousness from it but from Himself--His own righteousness--not that which is of the law, for "the law is not of faith" (Gal 3:12), and "The man that doeth them shall live in them," which is a hyperbolic expression that "if he could do them, he would live in them.

This answers to the reason why "a man is not justified by the works of the law" (Gal 2:16), because no person, even in Christian obedience to Christ in our new nature (because the old nature still abides, but no longer as a ruler), can perform this perfectly. But this is not expected of God of us and wishes that we desire to do His pleasure above all things (Phil 2:13).

This is the believer's manner of life, and Christ's life which is ours (Col 3:4), expiates our lives from the ongoing sinful nature ("old man"). Thus it is in desiring His will over all things, which desire He "works" in us, and not the weighty attempts to live a perfect life that God wills.






So what you are saying is you cannot keep God's law the ten commandments? Why not? If you have the Holy Spirit dwelling in you, it should be no problem. As God said in Hebrews 8 and 10, I will write my commandments on their hearts and minds, and I will be their God, and they will be MY people.
 

mjrhealth

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So what you are saying is you cannot keep God's law the ten commandments? Why not? If you have the Holy Spirit dwelling in you, it should be no problem. As God said in Hebrews 8 and 10, I will write my commandments on their hearts and minds, and I will be their God, and they will be MY people.
Simply because those who are in Christ walk in Love as He did, and as God is Love. See those who walk in Love need no laws to do what it right, but those who do not know love, who do not walk in Him, need laws and rules to do what it rght,

Have you nor read

1Ti_1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,


Who are the righteousess,'

Eph 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
Eph 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Those who are in Christ

How many times must you go round the circle before you move on to better things. Is this all you know.
 

heretoeternity

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mjrhealth said:
Simply because those who are in Christ walk in Love as He did, and as God is Love. See those who walk in Love need no laws to do what it right, but those who do not know love, who do not walk in Him, need laws and rules to do what it rght,

Have you nor read

1Ti_1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,


Who are the righteousess,'

Eph 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
Eph 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Those who are in Christ

How many times must you go round the circle before you move on to better things. Is this all you know.














As Jesus said know the truth and it will make your free....you obviously do not recognize nor want to recognize the truth, even if it hits you between the eyes...satan has done a good job on you from his viewpoint........get ready to hear these words from Jesus in Matthew 7..depart from me I never knew you, you who practice lawlessness.....
 

mjrhealth

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As Jesus said know the truth and it will make your free....you obviously do not recognize nor want to recognize the truth, even if it hits you between the eyes...satan has done a good job on you from his viewpoint........get ready to hear these words from Jesus in Matthew 7..depart from me I never knew you, you who practice lawlessness.....
Hmm , well im free, are you not. Lets see what the bible says,

Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Rom 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

You know what that makes those who claim to be in Christ yet keep the law, it makes them "adulteres", for they claim to be His bride yet are with another man. So you see, by your own doing you have broken the law. Funny is it not, dont see any one laughing.
 

H. Richard

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heretoeternity said:
Hi HTE - Like your ID! I believe the law, esp. the Decalogue presents a portion of God's will, which Scripture teaches that if it is to be kept it must be perfectly, e.g. with a sinless nature. Hence the need for Christ's law-keeping, but not to impute righteousness from it but from Himself--His own righteousness--not that which is of the law, for "the law is not of faith" (Gal 3:12), and "The man that doeth them shall live in them," which is a hyperbolic expression that "if he could do them, he would live in them.

This answers to the reason why "a man is not justified by the works of the law" (Gal 2:16), because no person, even in Christian obedience to Christ in our new nature (because the old nature still abides, but no longer as a ruler), can perform this perfectly. But this is not expected of God of us and wishes that we desire to do His pleasure above all things (Phil 2:13).

This is the believer's manner of life, and Christ's life which is ours (Col 3:4), expiates our lives from the ongoing sinful nature ("old man"). Thus it is in desiring His will over all things, which desire He "works" in us, and not the weighty attempts to live a perfect life that God wills.






So what you are saying is you cannot keep God's law the ten commandments? Why not? If you have the Holy Spirit dwelling in you, it should be no problem. As God said in Hebrews 8 and 10, I will write my commandments on their hearts and minds, and I will be their God, and they will be MY people.
This is a promise that God made with His people, the Jews. It is a promise that when Jesus sets up His 1000 year kingdom the Jews in that kingdom will have the laws written in their hearts. This verse should never be used to include those under grace.

A lot has been said about God's will. Many make assumptions. But the truth is that it is the will of God that a person trusts in His Son's work on the cross. What is obvious to me is that a person living in sinful flesh will sin until that person dies.

Why don't people understand that God wants people to honor His Son. How do we do that, by claiming we can be sinless like Jesus and not break a commandment? The Jews, God's people could not keep the perfect laws of God but there are people on this forum that think they can. How does that glorify what Jesus did for us on the cross?

1 Cor 1:26-31 -- Glory Only in the Lord
26 For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.
27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty;
28 and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are,
29 that no flesh should glory in His presence.
30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God — and righteousness and sanctification and redemption —
31 that, as it is written, "He who glories, let him glory in the Lord."

NKJV

A child of God is righteous only because he/she has been covered by the righteousness of Jesus Christ. Let us give glory to God's Son, Jesus Christ.
 

Netchaplain

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Faith "establishes" the Law (Rom 3:31) by showing works (of the Law) are not needed for justification, but "works" (not of the Law but in general) are for manifesting justification. Faith and the Law are separate entities, for "The law is not of faith," but is only of "doing" (Gal 3:12); and justification (to render righteousness - Rom 3:26; 8:33) is never effected by works, for works can only justify (to manifest righteousness - Jam 2:24) faith.

Notice the two different usages in the words "justification" or "justify." The Greek sense for the first is to render or effect righteousness, as in Christianity, to "impute" righteousness. The latter sense is to manifest ("bear," not produce - John 15:8) righteousness, not effect it.

Hence the closeness and confusion in the usages between these two passages:
Romans 3:28: "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified (render) by faith without the deeds of the law

James 2:24: "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified (manifest) and not by faith only."

Greek proof-usages: https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=G1344&t=KJV


"Yet we know that a person is made right with God by faith in Jesus Christ, not by obeying the law. And we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we might be made right with God because of our faith in Christ, not because we have obeyed the law. For no one will ever be made right with God by obeying the law” (Gal 2:15 NLT).
 

heretoeternity

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NC you appear confused between the Mosaic law, the 613 sacrificial, circumcision, feast, food, festival etc laws which God gave to Moses to write down and give to the people...these ended at the cross as per acts 15 with the exception of the four mentioned.
God's law is separate all together, as God wrote these on stone himself and are the moral law which we are to follow..
Yes, we are saved by God's grace, and He forgives us our sins, but repentance away from sin should follow in other words obedience of God's law. As Jesus said in Matthew 19 to obtain eternal life "follow the commandments" and He goes on to describe them as the 10 commandments.
He, also in John 14 says "if you love me keep my Commandments"...and John in 1st John says "sin is trangression of God's law"....
and Jesus in Matthew 5 says "Heaven and earth will pass away but nothing will be changed in God's law will be changed until ALL is fulfilled..well Heaven and earth are still here, and obviously He has not returned so all is NOT fulfilled yet..
Bottom line NC and MJRH learn to differentiate between the Mosaic law and God's law, then you will understand what Paul and your other references you give are actually talking about..
'
 

FHII

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heretoeternity said:
NC you appear confused between the Mosaic law, the 613 sacrificial, circumcision, feast, food, festival etc laws which God gave to Moses to write down and give to the people...these ended at the cross as per acts 15 with the exception of the four mentioned.
God's law is separate all together, as God wrote these on stone himself and are the moral law which we are to follow..
Yes, we are saved by God's grace, and He forgives us our sins, but repentance away from sin should follow in other words obedience of God's law. As Jesus said in Matthew 19 to obtain eternal life "follow the commandments" and He goes on to describe them as the 10 commandments.
He, also in John 14 says "if you love me keep my Commandments"...and John in 1st John says "sin is trangression of God's law"....
and Jesus in Matthew 5 says "Heaven and earth will pass away but nothing will be changed in God's law will be changed until ALL is fulfilled..well Heaven and earth are still here, and obviously He has not returned so all is NOT fulfilled yet..
Bottom line NC and MJRH learn to differentiate between the Mosaic law and God's law, then you will understand what Paul and your other references you give are actually talking about..
'
I'd like you to read 2 Cor 3 and tell me more about the difference between God's law and the Law of Moses. The aren't different, but even so they are both done away with.

I fully admit there are similarities in the old and new covenant. But we aren't under the old. There is no difference between the law of god and moses.
 

mjrhealth

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There is no difference between the law of god and moses.
Thats because it is not Moses laws, they where the laws given to him by God to write down. Still Gods Law. As it says,

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
As this man does

Luk 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

That is why we dont serve the law, and this is why we have grace

Luk 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Luk 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Which one do you choose to be
 

mjrhealth

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heretoeternity said:
Where did you learn that? Seems satan has be doing a fine works in you to support him....good luck with that!
Satan seems to be always on your mind, any reason, Is not Jesus supoosed to be in your thoughts daily.
 

heretoeternity

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Hey if you think it is okay to steal, commit adultery, bear false witness etc thats you business, but it is not according to God's will...and as such is strictly from satan..you seems to love the demonic side of things..good luck with that philosophy!
 

mjrhealth

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Hey if you think it is okay to steal, commit adultery, bear false witness etc thats you business, but it is not according to God's will...and as such is strictly from satan..you seems to love the demonic side of things..good luck with that philosophy!
ARe you not the one jsaying that if you only had grace you would do such things. No one else is.

Act 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

Are you insisting on putting this stumbling block before the Lords people???