Wine or Juice at Last Supper
- Thread starter Acolyte
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I've used water, coca cola, and various other drinks at least a hundred times.
If we have a recovering alcoholic with us....grape juice. Otherwise wine! 
I mean, wine not?
I mean, wine not?I always said Jesus turned water into wine. Teetotalers turn it into grape juice.
Jesus was careful to speak of "the fruit of the vine", and "the cup", not "wine". Also some of the words translated as "wine" in the Bible can mean unfermented grape juice. Furthermore Bible wines were quite different from what we see around us, and were frequently mingled with water.
Since Passover excluded yeast, and was followed by the Feast of Unleavened Bread (for which all yeast was to be purged from households), unfermented grape juice would be representative of the sinless blood of Christ, just as unleavened bread would be representative of His sinless body.
Paul compares leaven to malice and wickedness, and tells Christians to purge out this *old leaven*.
1 CORINTHIANS 5
6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
8 Therefore let us keep the feast, [THE LORD'S SUPPER] not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
Hidden In Him
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I think it's kinda tough to make a case that they were using pure grape juice in NT times, Acolyte. They were apparently referring to wine most of the time, such as in Mark 2:22, where the Lord said, "And no man puts new wine into old wineskins, else the new wine bursts the wineskins and the wine is spilled, and the wineskins will be ruined. But new wine must be put into new wineskins." Grape juice also ferments over time, but the fact that the fermenting process is clearly being referred to here and yet without any condemnation suggests our Lord had no problem with drinking wine, so long as it was not to excess.
I agree with the others, though, that you can really use either. It's symbolic. What is much more important is that the congregation fully understands what communion represents; that by partaking of the Lord together they are one body with each other, and should regard each other as members of the same spiritual body.
Helen
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I think we read WAY too much into this. Other than Water, Wine from grapes, possibly Juice from various berries, and Milk, what other drinks did they have in Biblical times? I don't think even tea was ever mentioned.
China and India were a long way off. And the British Empire was a long way down the road.
This is my thinking.. It seems contrary to use wine.. maybe I think too much. (which wasn't always the case) Also not that familiar with wine-making process, does juice turn to wine without yeast or just bad juice...
There was nothing new or different brought into that yearly meal that all Jews partook of to be of some special importance to a coming death. The food and drink items were what every Jewish family had placed on their tables for ages. Jesus simply used what He had on hand to illustrate His conversation.
Grape skins have wild yeast on them that will, in time, ferment the grape juice. Depending on the particular blend of yeast on your grapes, you may get complete fermentation, or the yeast may have low alcohol tolerance and the fermentation will halt before all the sugars have been consumed. Yeast contribute to the flavour profile of the wine, and unquantified yeast will produce unpredictable results.
Answered my own question, but its still yeast, added or wild.
Answered my own question, but its still yeast, added or wild.
It doesn't matter the specifics of what it is: the point is to remember Christ and His sacrifice. Getting lost in the details beverage composition is not the point.
For the bread: sure. It's kind of hard to drink a donut.
Not exactly. The Lord's Supper was originally the Passover meal, and the original Passover did not mention what was to be drunk with that meal:
And they shall eat the flesh [of the lamb] in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it. (Exod 12:8).
The Jews introduced four cups of wine into their Passover observance, but in the narrative of the first Lord's Supper there is no mention of four cups. Just the one cup. And since leaven was excluded from the Passover meal, it would be odd to have fermented wine in the cup. Jesus mentioned "the fruit of the vine" and that is exactly the phrase used in the Jewish Haggadah in connection with the Passover: Blessed are You, Lord, our God, King of the universe, who creates the fruit of the vine.
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This is so true. Except for those people who are certain Jesus only came to take us out from under one set of laws, to then place a whole new set upon us.
Thanks all. The yeast thing bothered me, also the fact that wine is mentioned so often and so obviously missing in these verses. I didn't know if it was man's tradition, I still don't.
I get somewhat amused when people say the details aren't important, when most of you take every verse (for lack of a better analogy), down to the lowest common denominator. ie: translation, word origin, etc.
Much appreciation for your reponses and sharing your knowedge. @Enoch111 special thank you for validating my question.
Blessings
I get somewhat amused when people say the details aren't important, when most of you take every verse (for lack of a better analogy), down to the lowest common denominator. ie: translation, word origin, etc.
Much appreciation for your reponses and sharing your knowedge. @Enoch111 special thank you for validating my question.
Blessings
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Helen
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It's good having you here.
That was a good question.
We used to use grape juice ( in case there were any alcoholic in the church) ...but we switched to wine after hearing a word about wine.
But that was over 40 years ago.
I am one of the "it is just a symbol" people...I do not think God sits with His note book and checks of the "right and wrong" of everything..
( He does not eat from the tree of mixture, tree of the knowledge of good and evil) He is a God of Life!
I heard a missionary speaking when I was still back in England decades ago...but I have never forgotten it.
He said they found a tribe deep in Africa that were ready to receive the Good News of the Gospel.
He soon found out why. ( and since then I heard many , many similar stories from others)
As they were traveling into the bush they stopped and camped.
They had a meeting and used a banana for the bread, and water for the wine. They had their service and broke the banana and sipped and passed the 'water'.
This tribe leader told them that his men were all around them, they had killed other white-man missionaries...they were going to kill these too. But as they prepared to attack they watched them do this with the banana and water. They could tell that they were doing it to the Great God. And, what stopped them attacking was , around the small white man missionaries were very big , tall , strong armed men standing around them in a circle.
So no..."what" we use is not important to God. God is a God of the heart.
It is not really about the liquids in the cup...
It is about what agreeing to drinking from the cup means...
INDIGNATION...you can expect from the world, BECAUSE you Believe in thee Lord God.
The Great Tribulation IS Gods Promised Revenge, His vengeance, upon those of the World who poured out their vengeance on People who Believe.
Glory to God,
Merry Christmas,
Taken
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