Without holiness, no one will see The Lord

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Pet

Member
Sep 13, 2020
57
87
18
Conwy
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United Kingdom
For many years, I have observed, among the majority of 'believers' that Christians can and will continue to sin after salvation.
A clear reading of The Lord Jesus' words, confirm that this is a lie.

The wages of sin is death. Adam and Eve died, and so will we, if we continue in sin.

I would like to ask people to pray for my own entire sanctification, so that I may enter through the narrow gate. As Jesus commanded
 

sheariah07

Member
Feb 2, 2023
80
69
18
Valenzuela
Faith
Christian
Country
Philippines
For many years, I have observed, among the majority of 'believers' that Christians can and will continue to sin after salvation.
A clear reading of The Lord Jesus' words, confirm that this is a lie.

The wages of sin is death. Adam and Eve died, and so will we, if we continue in sin.

I would like to ask people to pray for my own entire sanctification, so that I may enter through the narrow gate. As Jesus commanded
You are right, you can overcome sin by God's help alone. In this life, not in the life to come. Being dead to sin is not knowledge, it is an experience. Israel was given the commandments in the wilderness so they can put it into practice before entering the promised land, likewise to us, we cannot enter the promised land and then there live a righteous life.

Deuteronomy 6:18 KJV
And thou shalt do that which is right and good in the sight of the Lord : that it may be well with thee, and THAT THOU MAYEST GO IN AND POSSESS the good land which the Lord sware unto thy fathers,

If you have put to death your flesh, you have ceased from sinning. 1 Pet. 4:1 (again it is an experience, not just knowledge of the scripture)

When you die to yourself and put on Christ, it is no more you, the sinful man, that lives, but it's the life of Christ that you live. Did Jesus live a sinful life? No. When your old self is crucified, it is dead and cannot go down to the cross and commit sin again. It is dead. But the spirit is made alive by the Spirit of God.

It is the new covenant of God, “I will cleanse you from all your uncleanness and your idols and you shall be clean. I will cause you to obey my commandments.” Ezk. 36. It is the work of God. He said “I will” without our help. We experience this if we believe in our hearts that he can save us from committing sins.

Whosoever commits sin is a slave of sin. But if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed (not partially or sometimes free and sometimes failing). Jesus himself put the emphasis, indeed.

With men, it is impossible because when he fights his sin, he always fails and stumbles because he is in the flesh and is sold under sin, a slave. A slave cannot do anything but obey its master. Why do you keep failing and stumbling? You are chained by your master, sin.

But with God, all things are possible. When Jesus sets you free from your bondage with sin, you shall be free indeed, and you have now become a slave of righteousness where you can't help but obey righteousness and not sin.

Romans 6:18 KJV
Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

How come one say it is impossible to stop sinning here on earth? You cannot serve two masters. When you sin, you are a slave to sin and cannot call yourself a slave to rigteousness. No man can serve two masters. Christ cannot have fellowship with Belial.

So when you die to sin, sin will never revive and resurface and overcome you because you have been freed and you cannot obey sin because you are already a servant of righteousness. Your master won't allow you to disobey him.

Being dead to sin and born again is a painful process. It is an experience, not a thought or knowledge.

One can say, “I believe I'm saved because the bible tells me so,” and still be not saved because he only knows, but doesn't experience it.

You already believe it, ask Jesus to save you from your sins and he will. Ask him to do his will instead of yours, that's how he will save you from your sins. Because ourself is the sinful man, when his will is asked in exchange for our will, he will work in us whatever he pleases. He becomes our master.

You have to read the word for your sanctification.

Ephesians 5:26 KJV
That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

John 3:5 KJV
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

John 17:17 KJV
Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Psalm 119:9 KJV
Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word.

John 15:3 KJV
Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

Ephesians 5:27 KJV
That he might present it to himself a glorious church, NOT HAVING SPOT, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.


Psalm 19:7 KJV
The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

Ask him and he will do it. He will make you obey him all the days of your life. It is so very true. This is the true gospel, that Jesus can save us from committing sins, not just pay the penalty of it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lizbeth

Lizbeth

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2022
1,988
3,080
113
66
Ontario, Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
There is a difference, I believe, between inadvertent sins and willful sins. James wrote that "we offend in many ways all". But not when we are walking in the spirit as Paul wrote.
 

sheariah07

Member
Feb 2, 2023
80
69
18
Valenzuela
Faith
Christian
Country
Philippines
There is a difference, I believe, between inadvertent sins and willful sins. James wrote that "we offend in many ways all". But not when we are walking in the spirit as Paul wrote.
Yes sister. A real born again Christian cannot commit wilful sins anymore. But what really is wilful sinning is what makes the difference. Some say wilful sinning is to happily commit a sin.

James 4:17 KJV
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Whatever we do that we know is not good, that is wilful sin.

If we know strife, fighting, lust, disrespect to parents, cursing, covetousness are bad and we do it, it is a wilful sin because we know they're bad.

Inadvertent sins are sins we're not aware of. But strife, anger, wrath, lust, all these things cannot be inadvertent because we know they're wrong and to do these things proves one is still carnal and not spiritual.

Also, one cannot sometimes walk in the flesh and sometimes walk in the spirit. The carnal mind is enmity against God and ends with death. A spiritual man cannot sin anymore because God's seed remains in him. He cannot lose self control, keep record of wrongs, feel hatred, gossip. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, vice versa. No man can serve two masters and both walk in the flesh and spirit. Christ cannot have fellowship with Belial.
 

Lizbeth

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2022
1,988
3,080
113
66
Ontario, Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
I think willful sin implies deliberate as well as knowing...? Someone can lose their temper, knowing that it is sin, nevertheless they forgot themselves for a moment and blew their top...it wasn't deliberate. There is grace for that if the person repents. It doesn't necessarily mean the whole tree is bad. If you have control over yourself and knowingly sin anyhow, that is another category...that is what I'd call willful, and if someone keeps on sinning that way they are in danger....no more sacrifice for that. And if losing temper and being nasty is a whole way of life for that person, without any care or remorse, then we might have reason to question the tree. Also there are sins committed without the person even being aware....we are usually the last to know our faults.

Whatsoever is not of faith is sin. Even the "good" that we do can be sin. Sin is more than just what we do or don't do, it is an overall condition or state that our flesh is in. As Paul wrote, " In me (that is in my flesh) dwells no good thing". Anything we do that proceeds from "self" (flesh) is sin really, even if it is not strictly "bad". Because it falls short and is not of faith, ie, spirit. We need the grace of our Lord every second of every day.
 

dev553344

Well-Known Member
Jul 14, 2020
14,237
16,640
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It is thru the atonement that God's holy spirit can be with us. And you are right, he cannot look upon sin, so when we sin he is not with us, but does tell us in the moment not to sin, so he is still there.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pet

sheariah07

Member
Feb 2, 2023
80
69
18
Valenzuela
Faith
Christian
Country
Philippines
I think willful sin implies deliberate as well as knowing...? Someone can lose their temper, knowing that it is sin, nevertheless they forgot themselves for a moment and blew their top...it wasn't deliberate. There is grace for that if the person repents. It doesn't necessarily mean the whole tree is bad. If you have control over yourself and knowingly sin anyhow, that is another category...that is what I'd call willful, and if someone keeps on sinning that way they are in danger....no more sacrifice for that. And if losing temper and being nasty is a whole way of life for that person, without any care or remorse, then we might have reason to question the tree. Also there are sins committed without the person even being aware....we are usually the last to know our faults.

Whatsoever is not of faith is sin. Even the "good" that we do can be sin. Sin is more than just what we do or don't do, it is an overall condition or state that our flesh is in. As Paul wrote, " In me (that is in my flesh) dwells no good thing". Anything we do that proceeds from "self" (flesh) is sin really, even if it is not strictly "bad". Because it falls short and is not of faith, ie, spirit. We need the grace of our Lord every second of every day.
Yes sister, deliberate and knowing. But someone losing their temper knowing that it is sin is wilful sinning because he knows that he has to deny himself and carry his cross and not "murder."

Proverbs 30:14 KJV
There is a generation, whose teeth are as swords, and their jaw teeth as knives, to devour the poor from off the earth, and the needy from among men.

Whoever does not deny himself and carry his cross and lose his life on earth cannot be Jesus' disciple.

Losing temper is not the fruit of the Holy Spirit but the work of the flesh (carnal).

Galatians 5:19-24 AMP
Now the practices of the sinful nature are clearly evident: they are sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality (total irresponsibility, lack of self-control), [20] idolatry, sorcery, hostility, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions [that promote heresies], [21] envy, drunkenness, riotous behavior, and other things like these. I warn you beforehand, just as I did previously, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

[22] But the fruit of the Spirit [the result of His presence within us] is love [unselfish concern for others], joy, [inner] peace, patience [not the ability to wait, but how we act while waiting], kindness, goodness, faithfulness, [23] gentleness, self-control. Against such things there is no law.

1 Corinthians 3:3 KJV
For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

Romans 8:6-8 KJV
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. [7] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. [8] So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

James 3:11,14-17 KJV
Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter? [14] But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth. [15] This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish. [16] For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work. [17] But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

Losing temper over and over again at different times is someone who "keeps on sinning." Also, the Lord said to obey (not sin) is better than sacrifice (repent/being sorry)

1 Samuel 15:22 KJV
And Samuel said, Hath the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the Lord ? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

Whatsoever is not of faith is sin. Even the "good" that we do can be sin. Sin is more than just what we do or don't do, it is an overall condition or state that our flesh is in. As Paul wrote, " In me (that is in my flesh) dwells no good thing". Anything we do that proceeds from "self" (flesh) is sin really, even if it is not strictly "bad". Because it falls short and is not of faith, ie, spirit. We need the grace of our Lord every second of every day.

Paul wrote Romans 7 describing the time when he was carnal (in the flesh) (that also brings the fruit of losing temper, work of the flesh) He keeps on sinning although he doesn't want to. He was in bondage to sin. As you said, anything we do that proceeds from "self" (flesh) is sin even if it is not strictly "bad". But that means that we are not yet spiritual if the self (flesh) still lives. But Paul became Spiritual in Romans 8.

1 Peter 4:1 KJV
Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

Romans 8:1 KJV
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

One cannot both walk carnally and spiritually at the same time. To be carnally minded (flesh) is death. That's why we have to deny ourselves daily, die to self, including losing temper, so that the life of Christ would manifest. If we fail one time, then we are judged under the law and therefore bring us under the law.

James 2:10-11 KJV
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. (and those who walk in the Spirit has fulfilled the whole law by not causing anyone to stumble)

For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

Only those who have ceased from sinning are exempted from the law. Like our justice system here on earth, if you don't murder, you cannot be judged as a murderer. But if you do murder, then you will pay the price under the law.

Whoever walks in the Spirit has already put to death the flesh. The flesh is dead, it cannot revive and commit sin again.

1 John 3:9 KJV
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

In short, whoever is born of the Spirit cannot lose temper anymore because that is not the fruit of the Spirit but the work of flesh. He has overcome sin and is more than a conqueror, the law has no power over it because with the law is the knowledge of sin.