Work of Jesus and Our work

[amadeus]

Jesus work:
“Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.” John 4:34

“ But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.” John 5:17

“Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.” John 6:29

“I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.” John 17:4

Our work:

“As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.” John 17:18

“Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.” John 8:12

“Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth.

While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.” John 12:35-36

“I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.

As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.” John 9:4-5

“And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.” John 17:11

“Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.

Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.” Matt 5:14-16

 

[Robert Gwin]

Jesus work:
“Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.” John 4:34

“ But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.” John 5:17

“Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.” John 6:29

“I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.” John 17:4

Our work:

“As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.” John 17:18

“Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.” John 8:12

“Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth.

While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.” John 12:35-36

“I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.

As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.” John 9:4-5

“And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.” John 17:11

“Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.

Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.” Matt 5:14-16

Jesus stated: (Luke 4:43, 44) . . .“I must also declare the good news of the Kingdom of God to other cities, because for this I was sent.”

He sent us: (Luke 9:60) . . .you go and declare abroad the Kingdom of God.”
(Matthew 10:7) . . .As you go, preach, saying: ‘The Kingdom of the heavens has drawn near.. . .
(Matthew 28:19, 20) . . .Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion . . .

That is our assignment sir. It is that good news of the Kingdom that we are to declare.

 

[amadeus]

Jesus stated: (Luke 4:43, 44) . . .“I must also declare the good news of the Kingdom of God to other cities, because for this I was sent.”

He sent us: (Luke 9:60) . . .you go and declare abroad the Kingdom of God.”
(Matthew 10:7) . . .As you go, preach, saying: ‘The Kingdom of the heavens has drawn near.. . .
(Matthew 28:19, 20) . . .Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion . . .

That is our assignment sir. It is that good news of the Kingdom that we are to declare.

While we have time and Light we must go and do as we are led by the Spirit of God:

"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." Rom 8:14

 

[Robert Gwin]

While we have time and Light we must go and do as we are led by the Spirit of God:

"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." Rom 8:14

That is kind of a deceptive verse Amadeus, as those who were called to be holy ones Rom 1:7 are later revealed to be 144k. It is generally unknown that the letters were written to them, and not to the great crowd of other sheep. Jn 10:16 When one knows that, it really helps in understanding sir.

 

[amadeus]

That is kind of a deceptive verse Amadeus, as those who were called to be holy ones Rom 1:7 are later revealed to be 144k. It is generally unknown that the letters were written to them, and not to the great crowd of other sheep. Jn 10:16 When one knows that, it really helps in understanding sir.

To me is does not appear to be deceptive although many men are deceived because they have failed to love truth.

"And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:" II Thess 2:10-11

I know Jesus, who is the Truth and I love him in spite of not knowing all there is to know about him. Who does? Some may imply or infer that they do [know all about Jesus], but considering that Apostle Paul, who under God's anointing wrote most of the NT, include himself among those who saw through a glass darkly the things of God, I wonder about people who effectively elevate themselves that way.

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12

Are we His sheep hearing His voice? If we are not, will we not know who we are to follow? Those led by the Spirit should be His sheep hearing His voice, it seems to me. I have heard His voice, and I am certain that other have as well among people that I have known, but I try to be careful with regard to judging others based on incomplete information. God knows their hearts, and sometimes He has shared things with me about them... but many times He has not.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

While we have time and Light we must go and do as we are led by the Spirit of God:

"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." Rom 8:14

I wouldn’t bet my life on it; meaning I’m not absolute on this but it is only a thought. Consider what it is to prophesy? it may not seem to go with your thread but maybe it does in: while you have the light walk in it. Lest darkness come upon you. Then the verse “what I tell you in darkness, speak you in the light”. When He says to the edification of the body …can you think of any more edifying or edification of the body of Christ than: what he tells His body in darkness, they speak forth in the Light. To be clear and to not dance around it: I’m beginning to think “to prophesy” is to speak those things He tells us in darkness in the Light: being conviction and then bringing those wrongs unto the Light for “reproof” and the destruction of those wrongs …and this is what edifies His body. That what is done in secret and is hidden be hidden no more but “while you have Light, walk in it.” How much more edification of the body of Christ is there, then unlike Adam and Eve who shrunk back into the darkness at the whisper of the enemy that God is not good…God knowing what they had already done in secret, desires mercy and not sacrifice. How much more edification of the body of Christ than to prophesy those hidden things (of the heart) kept in darkness by bringing all that is hidden unto the Light for reproof? That hearts be cleansed by the Light of Christ.


the edifying of His body being brought out unto the Light, and not walking in darkness: Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
What Light if not God desire mercy and not sacrifice? What Light if not; to Light the way what is hidden in darkness and in secret will be revealed by the Light. For nothing covered Will not be uncovered. And nothing hidden in secret will not be revealed.


Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.” Matt 5:14-16

John 3:19-21 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. [20] For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. [21] But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.

Significant to me is this verse with: do you Light a candle and then hide it where men can’t see it(wouldn’t it smoother the Light and that Light go out?): or do you set it on a candlestick so it gives Light unto all that are in the house?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Isaiah 30:9-10 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the Lord : [10] Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:

Jeremiah 14:14 Then the Lord said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.

Jeremiah 23:16-17 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the Lord. [17] They say still unto them that despise me, (they say to those who hate the Light and neither come unto the Light that their deeds my be reproved by the Light); The Lord hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil (darkness)shall come upon you.


Jeremiah 27:10 For they prophesy a lie unto you, to remove you far from your land; and that I should drive you out, and ye should perish.

Ezekiel 34:1-4 And the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, [2] Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God unto the shepherds; Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks? [3] Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe you with the wool, ye kill them that are fed: but ye feed not the flock. [4] The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up that which was broken, neither have ye brought again that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force and with cruelty have ye ruled them.

1 Thessalonians 5:19-22 Quench not the Spirit. [20] Despise not prophesyings. [21] Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. [22] Abstain from all appearance of evil. Matthew 23:27-28 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. [28] Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.


More and more I’m questioning if: to the edification of the body of Christ; if there is anything more edifying of His body than the bringing out what is in darkness unto the Light for reproof. Yet Jeremiah 5:31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Work of Jesus and Our work:

Consider James 4:7-10 (our work) Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. [8] Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. (Our work) Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. [9](our work) Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. (The work of Jesus) 10] Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and (the work of Jesus) he shall lift you up.


But then again: can any submit unto God without the work of Jesus? Can any draw nigh unto God; Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded…without the work of Jesus? Can any Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. Without the work of Jesus?
2 Corinthians 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

can any work repentance to salvation not to be repented of: without the work of Jesus? Where without the work of Jesus leading the way to (Life): the sorrow of the world works death.

Can any be circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, the operation of God; without the work of Jesus? Colossians 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

 

[amadeus]

I wouldn’t bet my life on it; meaning I’m not absolute on this but it is only a thought. Consider what it is to prophesy?

Yes, to prophesy does not only mean to predict the future. It certainly can include that, but anyone who is given God's Word to speak and speaks it... as I see it, is prophesying. When are given His Word to share, and we do share as He intends for us to do, are we not doing His work?

it may not seem to go with your thread but maybe it does in: while you have the light walk in it. Lest darkness come upon you. Then the verse “what I tell you in darkness, speak you in the light”. When He says to the edification of the body …can you think of any more edifying or edification of the body of Christ than: what he tells His body in darkness, they speak forth in the Light.

Is the Light not the Spirit of God we are to follow? The Light lightens for us our next step so that we can take that step in God's will rather than stumbling and falling in our own darkness. People not really following the Spirit [the Light] fall over their own feet sometimes being deluded in their swollen head efforts to lead themselves along God's pathway:

"O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." Jerem 10:23

"Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.
And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so.
And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?" Acts 19:13-15

To be clear and to not dance around it: I’m beginning to think “to prophesy” is to speak those things He tells us in darkness in the Light: being conviction and then bringing those wrongs unto the Light for “reproof” and the destruction of those wrongs …and this is what edifies His body. That what is done in secret and is hidden be hidden no more but “while you have Light, walk in it.”

Yes, within us still is the old man who strives ever to regain that dominion he had before we met Jesus... and new man who wins every battle when he is really given the lead. Back when we had only the old man [prior to rebirth] we did things a certain way, and quite often it was very contrary to God's Way.

That old man of us still wants to travel that way along those learned pathways... Our own head using its own brain power and what it learned before meeting Jesus still wants to travel that road. What then does it mean to yield to the Holy Spirit? What does it mean to quench the Holy Spirit within us?

"For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace." Rom 8:6

"Quench not the Spirit." I Thess 5:19

How much more edification of the body of Christ is there, then unlike Adam and Eve who shrunk back into the darkness at the whisper of the enemy that God is not good…God knowing what they had already done in secret, desires mercy and not sacrifice. How much more edification of the body of Christ than to prophesy those hidden things (of the heart) kept in darkness by bringing all that is hidden unto the Light for reproof? That hearts be cleansed by the Light of Christ.

"He must increase, but I must decrease" John 3:30

That is speaking for you and me of our growth. The dark places within us, the places of the old man are the ones that must decrease. When they are emptied and clean, they need to be refilled with things of and by God. Consider this man stopped when he was clean:

"When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation." Matt 12:43-45

We cannot remain empty! When the filth is cleaned out the space needs to be filled up with good and clean things of God.

the edifying of His body being brought out unto the Light, and not walking in darkness: Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
What Light if not God desire mercy and not sacrifice? What Light if not; to Light the way what is hidden in darkness and in secret will be revealed by the Light. For nothing covered Will not be uncovered. And nothing hidden in secret will not be revealed.

When the Light comes on, we are able to see where the dirt is before us and in us. In the darkness it was invisible to us. We did not recognize or see some of our own dirt. In order to remove the dirt... thus working on God's work in us, He provides the Light to see what needs to be worked on as well as the good things to replace that dirt.

Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.” Matt 5:14-16

John 3:19-21 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. [20] For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. [21] But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

That men love their old ways of darkness is why many never repent at all. However some want to have their cake and eat it too, so they repent but want to give as little as possible of the things their old man enjoys.

"Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded." James 4:8

"I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth." Rev 3:15-16

 

[amadeus]

Significant to me is this verse with: do you Light a candle and then hide it where men can’t see it(wouldn’t it smoother the Light and that Light go out?): or do you set it on a candlestick so it gives Light unto all that are in the house?

Smothering the Light is effectively quenching the Spirit of God in us so that we are blind again like we were before we received the Spirit.

 

[amadeus]

Work of Jesus and Our work:

Consider James 4:7-10 (our work) Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. [8] Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. (Our work) Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. [9](our work) Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. (The work of Jesus) 10] Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and (the work of Jesus) he shall lift you up.


But then again: can any submit unto God without the work of Jesus? Can any draw nigh unto God; Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded…without the work of Jesus? Can any Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. Without the work of Jesus?
2 Corinthians 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

can any work repentance to salvation not to be repented of: without the work of Jesus? Where without the work of Jesus leading the way to (Life): the sorrow of the world works death.

Can any be circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, the operation of God; without the work of Jesus? Colossians 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Jesus opened the way making effective work in us possible. The light in each person at natural birth...

"That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world." John 1:9

...makes it possible to move toward the Light in order to receive Light to approach God more closely. The power to do the work needed within each of us or on behalf of someone else as God might direct is in the Holy Spirit within us... this is the Light, the greater Light, received when a person is born again or from above.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Jesus opened the way making effective work in us possible. The light in each person at natural birth...

"That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world." John 1:9

I have questions concerning John 1:7-13 which I’m struggling with what are the questions. “The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. [8] He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. [9] That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. [10] He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. [11] He came unto his own, and his own received him not. [12] But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: [13] Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

It seems the witness is “he was not that light” but came to bear witness of that Light. The true Light…for instance where Christ said this doctrine is not my doctrine, but His who sent me. That true Light that lights everyone that comes into the world being the witness “He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.”

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: [13] Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

I guess the question being was power given to that born of the flesh, of the Will of man …then wouldn’t all born of the flesh receive the power to becomes the sons of God? Instead of: But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: [13] Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

...makes it possible to move toward the Light in order to receive Light to approach God more closely. The power to do the work needed within each of us or on behalf of someone else as God might direct is in the Holy Spirit within us... this is the Light, the greater Light, received when a person is born again or from above.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I have questions concerning John 1:7-13 which I’m struggling with what are the questions. “The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. [8] He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. [9] That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. [10] He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. [11] He came unto his own, and his own received him not. [12] But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: [13] Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

It seems the witness is “he was not that light” but came to bear witness of that Light. The true Light…for instance where Christ said this doctrine is not my doctrine, but His who sent me. That true Light that lights everyone that comes into the world being the witness “He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.”

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: [13] Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

I guess the question being was power given to that born of the flesh, of the Will of man …then wouldn’t all born of the flesh receive the power to becomes the sons of God? Instead of: But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: [13] Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Please don’t misunderstand me …For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

seems to say the truth is there? Buried? Hidden under a bushel? “Who hold the truth in unrighteousness” what is a bushel?
BUSHEL boosh'-el (modios): A dry measure containing about a peck, but as it is used in the New Testament (Matthew 5:15 Mark 4:21 Luke 11:33) it does not refer to capacity but is used only to indicate a covering to conceal the light. —that covering to conceal the light? For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness,(to smoother, quench the Light, the Spirit of God) having not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

Romans 1:16-21 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation (to become the sons of God?) to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. [17] For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. [18] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; [19] Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. [20] For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: [21] Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

 

[amadeus]

I have questions concerning John 1:7-13 which I’m struggling with what are the questions. “The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. [8] He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

John the Baptist was like the moon as compared to the sun. It is the Baptist compared to Jesus. It is the OT compared to the NT.

The moon, the OT, gives forth only reflected Light which came from the sun, the NT.

Believers in the OT, such as David, shepherd boy and king of Israel was like the Baptist in the sense that he received truth from God but still was not Jesus. As inspired by God, David wrote much of it down [a large part of the Book of Psalms]... yet, reading his personal history, we see his many failures.

Yet in spite of those failures, what God inspired David to write still inspires us today. Can we see past the shadow to the Reality? The Reality is Jesus, but sometimes we can understand via David, the rough, fallible shadow, more easily than via Jesus, because we are often still too carnal in places as David was still too carnal in places.

We want to become like Jesus, rather than like David for Jesus is the perfect example, but sometimes looking at the fallible David is closer to looking at ourselves to help us understand what is wrong and what is needed. We have taken a mis-step or we may have stumbled then as David did and seeing how it was handled gain some understanding. Jesus mis-stepped and never stumbled and sometimes his steps are so perfect we cannot even even see much less understand them.

We can, with His help, get there, but our flesh is not dead and it blocks or muddies our understanding... David's life with all of its errors may help us understand our own errors so as to approach and understand Jesus' Life. Jesus is the goal, but how well do we see Him? David is closer to what we see in the mirror.

[9] That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

This is everybody born to woman which may be then all of us. This not talking of being born again. [That comes later.] This little glimmer of Light from afar is how God may draw us to His Son:

"And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father." John 6:65

Then God gives each of us [while still otherwise completely in the flesh] an opportunity to approach more closely. To actually do so then we...

We can repent.
We can be filled with the Holy Ghost.
We can follow the lead of the Holy Ghost.
We can become like Him. At this point the Light is not a glimmer in the distance... but rather:

"Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound." Isaiah 30:26

"And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof." Rev 21:23

[10] He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

We, the old man of us, were made by him, and unspoiled in the form of Adam and Eve before they disobeyed God. We as their offspring are similarly spoiled/ruined/dead being deaf and blind to anything but that initial glimmer until and if we approach God more closely. Being spoiled/ruined/dead we did not know God at all... but there was that attractive glimmer of Light in the distance. To move toward it or not. Our choice!

[11] He came unto his own, and his own received him not. [12] But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: [13] Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

In those few verses we see the Door [the way to the Tree of Life as per Gen. 3:24] opened by Jesus and the power given by the baptism of the Holy Ghost... that is the being born from above or of God.

God made then a Way where there had been no way since Adam and Eve disobeyed...

It seems the witness is “he was not that light” but came to bear witness of that Light. The true Light…for instance where Christ said this doctrine is not my doctrine, but His who sent me. That true Light that lights everyone that comes into the world being the witness “He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.”

The Baptist is the witness, reflected Light like the moon rather than the Reality or Light which is Jesus.

I guess the question being was power given to that born of the flesh, of the Will of man …then wouldn’t all born of the flesh receive the power to becomes the sons of God? Instead of: But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: [13] Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Those born of woman being able to see that glimmer must pursue the glimmer. Consider what Moses needed to do when he saw the bush.

"And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.
And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.
And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground." Exodus 3:2-5

Turn to it,
Hear God's call,
Answer God's call,
Prepare yourself as God requires...


And then what saith it?

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." I John 3:2

 

[VictoryinJesus]

John the Baptist was like the moon as compared to the sun. It is the Baptist compared to Jesus. It is the OT compared to the NT.

The moon, the OT, gives forth only reflected Light which came from the sun, the NT.

Believers in the OT, such as David, shepherd boy and king of Israel was like the Baptist in the sense that received truth from God but still was not Jesus. As inspired by God, David wrote much of it down [a large part of the Book of Psalms]... yet, reading his personal history, we see his many failures.

Yet in spite of those failures, what God inspired David to write man still inspires us today. Can we see past the shadow to the Reality? The Reality is Jesus, but sometimes we can understand via David, the rough, fallible shadow, more easily than via Jesus, because we are often still too carnal in places as David was still too carnal in places.

We want to become like Jesus, rather than like David for Jesus is the perfect example, but sometimes looking at the fallible David is closer to looking at ourselves to help us understand what is wrong and what is needed. We have taken a mis-step or we may have stumbled then as David did and seeing how it was handles gain some understanding. Jesus mis-stepped and never stumbled sometimes his steps are so perfect we cannot even even see much less understand them. We can get there, but our flesh is not dead and it blocks or muddies our understanding... David's life with all of its errors may help us understand our own errors so as to approach and understand Jesus' Life. Jesus is the goal, but how well do we see Him? David is closer to what we see in the mirror.

All you’ve shared above makes me think of:
James 1:20-25 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God. [21] Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. [22] But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. [23] For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: [24] For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. [25] But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.


For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: [24] For he beholdeth himself, and goes his way, and straightway forgets what manner of man he was.
Consider deceiving themselves “goes his way, forgetting what manner of man he was” possibly becoming puffed up and vain…why? If not forgetting what manner he was…makes me think about what you shared about the burning bush and his looking away to see why it wasn’t consumed…


considering also which here is John 1:12-13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: [13] Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

…he beholds his natural face in a glass: beholding himself, he goeth his way, and straightway forgets what manner of man he was. deceiving your own selves. For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer…

or Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

@amadeus , I’m sorry I added some after you read, I think.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

"And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.
And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.
And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground." Exodus 3:2-5

Turn to it,
Hear God's call,
Answer God's call,
Prepare yourself as God requires...

thank you! That is encouraging Amadeus!
James 1:24-25 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way,


and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.


and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.

And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.
And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.

25] But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.


Not in no way meaning anything about Moses only what you said
Turn to it,
Hear God's call,
Answer God's call,
Prepare yourself as God requires...

with “But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, …”
he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.

 

[amadeus]

@amadeus , I’m sorry I added some after you read, I think.

That's OK. I do it all of the time as I will fix typos and just unclear writing on my part. Just so we are ultimately communicating. That does matter. Give God the glory!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

That's OK. I do it all of the time as I will fix typos and just unclear writing on my part. Just so we are ultimately communicating. That does matter. Give God the glory!

I went back to edit because I do that a lot and I wanted to be clear. I used to think that man beholding his natural face, that goes his way and forgets what manner of man he was. As a good thing. For instance I’ll remember their sins no more. But now with the reference to deceiving themselves…I question if remembering what manner of man he was, is what keeps him from exalting himself and deceiving himself which then causes hatred and being lifted up against his brothers. Does that make sense? Example did Paul forget what he had done to Stephen? If like Moses, Saul looked into the bush burning with Fire …Saul may have looked away to go his way and forget what manner of man he was. Instead did Paul continue therein …”Saul, Saul why persecute thou Me?” “Who are you Lord?” seeing Stephen and His death which he had consented to and kept the garments of those who stoned Stephen, why was the burning bush not consumed by the presence of the Fire?