Ye Are Saved BY Grace...

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Jordan

Active Member
Apr 6, 2007
4,875
6
38
Ephesians 2:8-9 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.FOLKS, listen to this scriptures. People who accept Christ as Saviour are saved by grace through faith.If I say that speaking in tongue is a requirement, how then can it be saved by grace if we add works to our faith above our Lord Jesus Christ?The answer is you can't.Comment if you want to as I feel the need to point out this TRUTH to people who doesn't know this.Love you guys, Jag.Lovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.
 

Wise Haven

New Member
Sep 26, 2007
174
0
0
60
Dear SJI know you are right because this has been said to me before....many times by Christians I trust.I do not want to boast of being saved by my own hand but does this mean I have to relinquish responsibility to Christ to achieve salvation? If this is the case It means I have not sought salvation but merely accepted that it is granted by faith alone. It seems an easy option which goes against the grain as far as my cultural upbringing is concerned.I am probably making salvation harder than it should be.:pray:With regards speaking in tongues - could you elaborate please as I am not entirely sure of your meaning.
smile.gif
Blessings and love WH
 

TallMan

New Member
Jul 20, 2007
391
2
0
58
(thesuperjag;20789)
Ephesians 2:8-9 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.FOLKS, listen to this scriptures. People who accept Christ as Saviour are saved by grace through faith.If I say that speaking in tongue is a requirement, how then can it be saved by grace if we add works to our faith above our Lord Jesus Christ?The answer is you can't.. . .
You obviously don't know the grace you speak of.It is the life of God, what Jesus was "full of" (John 1:14-16)- the works and nature of God!You only have it once you have received God's Spirit:-"I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications" (Zech. 12:10)Sure enough:-"they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance . . Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. . .. the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call." (Acts 2:4, 33, 39)The Ephesians also knew this (Acts 19:1-6).Without this grace you are still spiritually trapped and blind, you are still "in the flesh" not having the grace of God.
 

Jordan

Active Member
Apr 6, 2007
4,875
6
38
I Corinthians 12:28-30 - And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?That being said. God does not give everyone the same gift. Stop trying to make speaking in tongue superior to the others.Lovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.
 

TallMan

New Member
Jul 20, 2007
391
2
0
58
(thesuperjag;20793)
I Corinthians 12:28-30 - And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?That being said. God does not give everyone the same gift. Stop trying to make speaking in tongue superior to the others..
When you take a text out of context you are left with a conThe context of those verse you fished out is that since chapter 11 Paul has been speaking about what should happen in meetings .. "the gift of tongues" like "gifts" of wisdom, knowledge faith etc (read 12:8-12) is the public use "one" at a time, of what ALL have for private use .. unless you believe that only one/some christians have wisdom, knowledge & faith .. . do you Jag??The corinthians were all speaking in tongues when they meet, so Paul reasons with them that just as not all are apostles, prophets etc so why are they all presuming to speak in tongues "in the church".
 

Wise Haven

New Member
Sep 26, 2007
174
0
0
60
Hey guys this is getting a little heated!Calm down - Lets put this back into persepective - The questionable aspect from the first post (as far as I am concerned) is the meaning of "speaking in tongue" or tongues. And what relevance does this have to the previous verse.
 

Jordan

Active Member
Apr 6, 2007
4,875
6
38
Acts 2:1-11 - And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.Lovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.
 

TallMan

New Member
Jul 20, 2007
391
2
0
58
Jag - I answered your comment, you havn't answered my question to you (post #5), please do so.
 

Jordan

Active Member
Apr 6, 2007
4,875
6
38
What I can see Tallman, is twisting scriptures. It's true that people in Acts 19:1-6 spake in tongues. But those tongues are languages to be understood, not tongues that doesn't understand, for it is written in I Corinthians 14I Corinthians 14:1-40 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine? And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped? For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle? So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air. There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification. Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me. Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church. Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest? For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified. I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue. Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad? But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth. How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying. If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace. For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted. And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant. Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. Let all things be done decently and in order.You see, these gift of tongues from God must need to be used correctly. If it is used incorrectly, then it is from Satan. The foreign tongues needs to be understood to edify the church, not to be not able to understand.Lovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.
 

Jordan

Active Member
Apr 6, 2007
4,875
6
38
I don't need a tongue to know wisdom, knowledge, and faith. Oh wait, I speak in an English tongue and you can understand it.I repeat not everyone will get this gift. and I repeat it needs to be used correctly, not incorrectly.Lovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.
 

Nova

New Member
Sep 20, 2007
137
2
0
65
Pretty much everything about salvation is a gift. God leads us to Him. He inspires the awareness that causes us to see our need. He gives us the faith to reach our & take the salvation offered. Our real contribution, is choosing to see our selves as we truely are. Which is lost, needy & unable to measure up. And worse, that we frequently desire not to measure up. Because we like sin better than goodness. In other words, we are sinful both by nature & by choice. Then after seeing ourselves, throw ourselves on God's grace & mercy, and take the salvation offer thru Jesus.The Holy Spirit is the seal between us & God. Anyone who is a Christian has the Holy Spirit living inside them. Works follow salvation. They are a result of our changed natures.
 

Christina

New Member
Apr 10, 2006
10,885
101
0
15
(TallMan;20792)
You obviously don't know the grace you speak of.It is the life of God, what Jesus was "full of" (John 1:14-16)- the works and nature of God!You only have it once you have received God's Spirit:-"I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications" (Zech. 12:10)Sure enough:-"they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance . . Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. . .. the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call." (Acts 2:4, 33, 39)The Ephesians also knew this (Acts 19:1-6).Without this grace you are still spiritually trapped and blind, you are still "in the flesh" not having the grace of God.
Tallman you are the one taking thing out of contextthese verse are about the Miracle of Penecost The Holy tongue of God 2And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. 6Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. 7And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? 8And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?This is Not your gibberish language there is no such thing as an "unknown" tongue that is an added word by men we have been through this before WE ARE SAVED BY GRACE OUR WORKS ARE OUR ROBES CLOTHES YOU WILL WEAR IN THE MILLIUEM You break Gods word by speaking tongues (gibberish in church ) 1Cr 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that [by my voice] I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an [unknown] tongue. (language)1Cr 14:27 If any man speak in an [unknown] tongue, [let it be] by two, or at the most [by] three, and [that] by course; and let one interpret. 1Cr 14:28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. Speaking gibberish in church is evidence of nothing Interpreting/understanding (prophesying) is the evidence of the Holly spirit not speaking any gibberish Prochey straight from God understood by all languages present is this tongue of Penticost (NOT gibberish that no one understands) The true Holy spirit is preceed by the Rushing sound of Gods Wind(breath and fills the entire building and everyone can understand)
 

TallMan

New Member
Jul 20, 2007
391
2
0
58
(kriss;20811)
Tallman you are the one taking thing out of contextthese verse are about the Miracle of Penecost The Holy tongue of God
Nonsense!Zech. 12:10 is clearly a prophecy of what began to happen at Pentecost, you have simply ignored the scripture I referred to!I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.- They were convicted of their sin of piercing the Messiah.Repentance allowed them to receive the grace of God, which is the Life that comes through having the Spirit of Christ within.Until you receive THE SAME, you are under the law of sin and death, you are a spiritually blind natural man trying and failing to perceive a life that you have never received!!People become temples of the living God, Jesus commented "my house shall be called a house of prayer", sure enough you pray in tongues when you becme his house "supplications" is prayer.* * * * * The disciples, and all people that speak in tongues speak words that are unknown to them. At Pentecost, bi-lingual jews of many nations were able to recognise real languages, the same has happened since, we have had visitors from Africa who recognised a gift of tongues in our meeting as being an old african dialect - but we still had to explain salvation to these people using learned language (English).Further proof that tongues is speaking to God not preaching to men is the fact that people spoke in tongues in Acts 10:44-46, interrupting Peter while he was trying to preach to them - who were they speaking in tongues to?Similarly in Acts 19:5-6 in the middle of nowhere.All speak in tongues when they receive God's Spirit, the main use is personal prayer, there is also a secondary use in meetings as a sign to non-christians, "the gift of tongues", 2 or 3 people only ("not all"), each followed by interpretation. A true church will have these things, they are "the commandments of the Lord" (1 Cor. 14:37).This happens where I worship, and is a true and effective sign to visitors that God is among us, as Paul said:-"my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God" (1 Cor. 2:4-5)Kriss, what happens where you worship ?I note you also didn't answer the question I keep referring to in message #5.
 

Nova

New Member
Sep 20, 2007
137
2
0
65
Let's look at the passage in Acts & those in 1Cor separately for a minute. On the Day of Pentecost, the Holy Spirit fell on the disciples. They spoke in tongues (unknown to themselves), but understood by the listeners. A parallel (in reverse) of what happened with confusing the language of man after the tower of Babel. Each listener understood the words spoken in their own language, because the Holy Spirit empowered the words of the disciples to be discerned.Overall, I think this was a one time event in the past. But if I ever found myself, in a land where English isn't spoken. It would be a useful gift to have. And God may yet, have need that this reoccurs in the future.Moving forward to the passages in 1Cor. Paul (under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit) penned all these verses. In 1Cor 12, he mentions the various gifts. And it is clear that not every Christian has the same gifts. Although we have the same Holy Spirit. The particular gifts given to each person vary. And Paul says, that of the gifts, speaking in tongues is the lesser, unless an interpreter is present.My hunch is that Paul mentioned the verses in 1Cor 14, because church services were turning into a circus. The emphasis being "speaking in tongues" should be orderly & edifying. It is better to speak the Word plainly, than use tongues & require interpretation.
 

Jordan

Active Member
Apr 6, 2007
4,875
6
38
Exactly Nova, Tallman is just trying to make that gift as a requirement needs to be needed to get the "Holy Ghost" to be saved. The "speaking in tongue" requirement is not of God, but of the Devil.I repeat, God will not give everybody the same gift. And that's final.Lovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.
 

Nova

New Member
Sep 20, 2007
137
2
0
65
(thesuperjag;20837)
Exactly Nova, Tallman is just trying to make that gift as a requirement needs to be needed to get the "Holy Ghost" to be saved. The "speaking in tongue" requirement is not of God, but of the Devil.I repeat, God will not give everybody the same gift. And that's final.Lovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.
Each Christian is indwelled with the Holy Spirit upon the moment of their salvation. "Speaking in tongues" is just one of a variety of gifts given by the Holy Spirit. Those truly blessed with the gift of "speaking in tongues" aren't of the devil. Because it is a legitimate gift of the Spirit. Although, I have frequently heard people speaking in tongues, where I have a strong check in my spirit, that it isn't of God. And more along the lines, that they are seeking to draw attention to themselves.
 

Nova

New Member
Sep 20, 2007
137
2
0
65
(Nova;20835)
On the Day of Pentecost, the Holy Spirit fell on the disciples. They spoke in tongues (unknown to themselves), but understood by the listeners. A parallel (in reverse) of what happened with confusing the language of man after the tower of Babel. Each listener understood the words spoken in their own language, because the Holy Spirit empowered the words of the disciples to be discerned.Overall, I think this was a one time event in the past. But if I ever found myself, in a land where English isn't spoken. It would be a useful gift to have. And God may yet, have need that this reoccurs in the future.
After typing this, I felt moved that it will reoccur in the future. My hunch is that the 2 witnesses in Revelation will be understood by any listener (in their own language.) This is not expressly said in scripture, it is just a feeling I have.
 

Christina

New Member
Apr 10, 2006
10,885
101
0
15
(Nova;20838)
Each Christian is indwelled with the Holy Spirit upon the moment of their salvation. "Speaking in tongues" is just one of a variety of gifts given by the Holy Spirit. Those truly blessed with the gift of "speaking in tongues" aren't of the devil. Because it is a legitimate gift of the Spirit. Although, I have frequently heard people speaking in tongues, where I have a strong check in my spirit, that it isn't of God. And more along the lines, that they are seeking to draw attention to themselves.
Speaking in tongues is only for teaching and prophesizing and self edifying gibberish is nothingand you are told only to do it in your own private prayers. UNLESS YOU HAVE an interpeter and that is what scripture says about it keep quite in Church. If you read the rest of 1cor. it will tell you that. IF there is no interpeter/understanding there is No EVidence of the holy spirit present
 

Jordan

Active Member
Apr 6, 2007
4,875
6
38
:amen: AND :blessyou:Good answer KrissLovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.