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Featured 'You hath He quickened'

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by charity, Oct 29, 2020.

  1. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    'And you hath He quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
    Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world,
    according to the prince of the power of the air,
    the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
    Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh,
    fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind;
    and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.'

    (Ephesians 2:1-3)

    'This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord,
    that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk,
    in the vanity of their mind,
    Having the understanding darkened,
    being alienated from the life of God
    through the ignorance that is in them,
    because of the blindness of their heart: ... '

    (Ephesians 4:17-18)

    Hello there,

    These two passages of Scripture among others have been convicting me, and causing me to take stock. For during this year of shutdowns, when we have been confined to our homes because of the Corona virus, I have been spending more time watching television drama series, films and documentaries. Reading works of fiction, as well as the knitting and crochet which I enjoy doing in my spare time.

    The desires of the flesh and of the mind, do not consist only of the gross lust of the flesh which are obvious and easy to identify, but the more refined and subtle lusts which come under the heading of the vanity of the mind. There are those who make a distinction between classical music, the opera, and such artistic accomplishments, from those pursuits such as rock music that it is deemed pander to the grosser lusts of the flesh, which excite, and bring into the mind thoughts which can lead to actions which are inappropriate for the believer in the Lord Jesus Christ. Also in regard to classical writings and works of fiction.

    I would appreciate your thoughts regarding these two scriptures and your understanding as to what is 'the vanity of the mind', and 'the desires of the flesh and of the mind' that we are to avoid, as those who have been awakened to the truth that is in Christ Jesus.

    Our lives are so short, and the word of God so rich and full, that if we were to spend the time we have in applying our mind to it's study, we would not plumb the entirety of it's depths. Are we wasting our precious time on things that will not profit us?

    Thank you
    Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
    Our Lord and Head.
    Chris
     
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  2. Not me

    Not me Well-Known Member

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    My thoughts would be, anything that self does is sin... Whether that be an outward religious or secular work... Scripture says whatever is not of faith is sin... You mentioned you were getting convicted in this and that area... This is where our obedience lies... In listening to this still small voice...Sometimes God allows this or that in life up to a point, then He puts His finger on something and begins to work in that area...

    For the outward doing matters only to the point of who’s doing the doing, that is, Christ or self...

    This is where the peace of Christ in our hearts enters in and we are to listen in what it says...

    Hope it encourages...

    Be blessed as He grows more of Himself in you...

    A fellow believer, Not me
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2020
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  3. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    You don't always have to be dead and full of sin to stray either.
    The sensations or stimulations of the mind.
    I literally sat up watching the protesters every night for hours, my eyes glued wondering what would happen next.
    How low could they go? How they had no care for their behavior, and I watched and watched for over 120 nights.
    And during the day it was politics, the "dirty laundry" who said what, who did what?
    It's like I found myself glued to a neverending soap opera.

    That's twice you said glued.
    I see that.. must mean something,

    Where was I?
    The desires of the mind.

    The quickening.. grow up, come away from childish things, come forth quickly.
    May have better definitions in the bible but that's what I hear.
    Move along. You better hurry up your going to miss the train.

    So your mind likes to hang on the merry go round. Taking in all the sights and shock and awes.
    It's like a virus really. Because when you see it, then you start to feel emotions, anger, disgust,
    all those things that eventually end up killing or what's the word.. quenching the holy spirit God put in you.
    So we are told to put away those childish things and get off the merry go round, cause ther's work to do.
    We need to go home and study for the exam.
    Because when the last bell rings and school days are over, your going to be graded.

    And it won't look good when the record shows you been playing hookey all semester.

    That's what I'm thinking Chris,
    Walking in the light of the Lord
    HUGS
     
  4. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    @Not me That passage in Ephesians 2 is indeed very searching...
     
  5. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    @Ziggy Philippians 4.8 is a really good antidote... :)

    "Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things."
     
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  6. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honorable, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
     
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  7. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    I liked it so much, it was worth repeating :)
     
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  8. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    It shouldn't be difficult to figure out, because The Holy Spirit will give us a 'hint' when we're into something we shouldn't be doing, or watching. I wasn't baptized until I turned 40, and I noticed a difference in my spirit as things on TV I watched afterwards, compared to programing I used to watch. Lot of programs I used to watch now bring out an 'evil' feeling sense inside, almost as if The Holy Spirit is sitting there with me watching too, and is turned off by it. It's like Game of Thrones or The Walking Dead everyone at work has been talking about; I tried to watch some of it, but no, my spirit inside felt the 'evil' in it, and I turned it off. I believe if we go ahead and program ourself to watch such things, The Holy Spirit will not be as active in us.
     
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  9. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    @Ziggy It's so good to quote - and memorize - Scripture... :)

    "Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee." (Psalm 119.11)
     
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  10. Base12

    Base12 Well-Known Member

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    Are we talking posting selfies and eating too many Bon-Bons, or are you looking for something deeper?

    Those verses you referenced have a far more significant meaning to me since I take the Bible more literally than most.
     
  11. Not me

    Not me Well-Known Member

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    @farouk, blessings as we learn Christ...:). Not me

    If you wouldn’t mind me saying so, well put forth... Evidence of Christ being alive in you..

    Blessing a fellow believer, Not me
     
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  12. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    It's all those numbers and remembering what book, I just can't seem to do it.
    I've tried. I know the common ones like John 3:16.. (you following me John?)
    But I hear the words just come flying out of the bible from all directions,
    sometimes multiple directions at the same time.
    And if I tried to memorize every verse and every chapter, there be no more room left to think.

    I know that sounds kind of flippant, and I'm not trying to be.
    It's just, If I never have a Book in fron tof me, I don't need to worry, cause most the words are in my head,
    or my heart.. seems those words run through the whole body don't it?
    It's all in your head.. or my heart is so full...

    Some people are better at this and some at that. And while I try really hard to even get the books straight,
    it's a real challenge trying to remember a chapter, let alone a verse.

    Someone once said I analyze things.. Maybe in this case the details of where to find the words, don't matter so much as knowing the words themselves. If someone asks me, where you find that, I just say read the Bible, it's in there.. like stone soup :D

    HUGS
     
  13. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    @Ziggy A concordance or a search engine can help, too...
     
  14. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    Hey sister!

    Here was something interesting to wake up to; a genuine question about scripture!

    Let's start with Ephesians 4:17-18. Verses 15 and 16 actually key you off to what he is talking about because of something Paul wrote to the Colossians.

    15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love. 17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, 18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: 19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. 20 But ye have not so learned Christ; 21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind (Ephesians 4:15-23)

    Now, he speaks here in verse 16 of the whole body growing up into the Head who is Christ, and he uses the exact same analogy in Colossians 2:19, a letter written at the same time:

    8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the principles of the world, and not after Christ... 18 Let no man rob you of your reward in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, investigating into those things which he has seen, being vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 And not holding fast the Head, from whom the whole body, being supplied and conjoined together through its joints and ligaments, grows with the growth of God. (Colossians 2:8, 18-19).

    Here Paul is talking about religious heretics trusting in their own theological ideas that arise from their own minds instead of from Christ and His body, hence the words, "vainly puffed up in his fleshly mind, not holding fast the Head."

    So the analogy is used in the same way in Ephesians 4:16, and that means that the phrase "the vanity of their minds" in Ephesians 4:17 is talking about the same thing: Vain religious thinking, instead of hearing the word of the Lord and applying it to their lives. This is why it devolves into sexual sins by verse 19. The Gentiles allowed for sexual sins in their religious and moral thinking, teaching that it was acceptable for a man to use prostitutes and even practice homosexuality.

    The wording in Ephesians 2:1-3 likely refers to the same thing. Let me quote the passage again:

    1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. (Ephesians 2:1-3).

    The Gentiles (especially the Greeks) had a propensity for priding themselves on their wisdom, as Paul mentions in 1 Corinthians 1:22. They believed in the power of great philosophers to solve the world's problems. So Paul is here repeating the teaching he gave the Colossians as well; that you can trust in the vanity of your mind to figure out the solutions to the world's problems, or you can trust Christ and listen to what He has to say about what will solve everything.

    As for mentally-stimulating music (which I strongly advocate, and favor much more genres like progressive rock), that would be a separate discussion divorced from these passages, since I don't think either really applies. But maybe you have a related question.

    I would just say in general that the Lord favors a mentally active mind. He just doesn't favor us trusting in it at the expense of receiving our thinking from Him first and foremost, which is what the Greeks were doing (1 Corinthians 2:6).

    God bless, and thanks for giving me something to get my mind going first thing in the morning : )
    Hidden
     
  15. Base12

    Base12 Well-Known Member

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    Let us summarize what our *HINT* "Past Lives" *HINT* were like...
    • Dead in trespasses and sins
    • Ye walked according to the course of this world
    • Children of disobedience
    • Were by nature the children of wrath
    • Having the understanding darkened
    • Being alienated from the life of God
    • Blindness of their heart
    Since I take those verses literally, you can see where I'm coming from. You visited my other thread, so you know what I believe is Biblical.

    Dead means dead... no pulse... in the Grave, etc. etc. We were once DEAD.

    We were Children of Disobedience...

    1 Peter 3:20
    "Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water."


    A Child of Disobedience has zero chance of being saved... ever. It is a permanent sentence.

    That was us in a previous life. We were preached to in Prison...

    1 Peter 3:19
    "By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;"


    And yet, we were Born Again... literally... physically... the whole kit and kaboodle...

    1 Peter 3:18
    "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:"


    There's that word again... 'Quickened'... meaning, to come back from being dead... literally.

    Ephesians 2:1
    "And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins"


    Anyhow. That is how I see the context of the verses you reference. Those walking according to the 'course of this world' are pre-destined to go to Hell. No Salvation possible.
     
  16. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    Still thinking on this, so let me add what I think the Lord was actually warning about that are among the most dangerous things to put our minds on instead of the word: Money matters, the anxieties of this life, and worldly pursuits.

    The first He warned about right here:

    22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light. 23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness! 24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. 25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment? 26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they? 27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature? 28 And why take ye thought for raiment? (Matthew 6:22-28)

    In other words, we cannot stay focused on and give our minds to two different things during this life. If it is on money, it cannot and will not be on God.

    Then there's the Parable of the Sower:

    13 And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables? 14 The sower sows the word. 15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan comes immediately, and takes away the word that was sown in their hearts. 16 And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness; 17 And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution arises for the word's sake, immediately they are offended. 18 And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word, 19 And the anxieties of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the desires for other things entering in, choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. (Mark 4:13-19)

    This is where the anxieties of the world, and pursuing worldly pleasures and entertainments, do in fact come in. So you could make a case with the last one that if one's desires are so wrapped up in worldly entertainments, that could be a problem.

    For me, music is something I can listen to and still focus on God and His word and minister. I am listening to some music, and rather complex music, right now in fact, but it doesn't hinder me any in writing out these posts. In fact it sort of keeps me company. Now, things like reading fiction, that would in fact compete with the things of God and meditation upon His word, because you cannot do both at the same time. I suppose the same might go for pursuing a musical talent at the expense of time spent pursuing the things of God as well. But this is why I set aside music. I have enough talent to play on almost any worship team anywhere if I applied myself, including the high-powered black worship teams where you have to be really good on bass. But despite owning a house full of music equipment, I never pick instruments up unless I am teaching music or called to help a church somewhere.

    Maybe the latter hits a little closer to home as far as the point you were making.

    God bless, and thanks again for the interesting thread.
     
  17. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    Charity-

    Eph 2: 1-3
    [1] And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
    [2] Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
    [3] Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

    Eph 4: 17-18
    [17] This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
    [18] Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

    It is speaking of the Natural nature of man ...
    Thinking with the Mind,
    Considering according to the Thoughts of the Mind,
    Doing things according to the Thoughts of the
    Mind....

    IS What A Natural man DOES.

    Conversely...A CONVERTED man...
    (Saved soul & Quickened spirit & Baptized with the Indwelling Spirit of God)

    IS a man WITH the Power of God WITHIN...
    the man...

    TO "superseded" otherwise, HAS the Power, TO MAKE...
    The Natural Thoughts OF the MIND...
    BE subjected TO, sub-servant TO...

    The Thinking, Consideration, Doings...
    "OF the THOUGHTS OF the Heart" Over
    "The Thoughts OF the Mind".

    (The text is about the historical aspect of man's nature, natural Logical Mind.
    •A "Gentile" being the specimen of a natural man in this case. (with neither God or Jesus Christ).
    •Compared to a "saint"...in this case, A Jew, in belief in God, obedient to God, via the Law...(and a man's power to obey the law...observed fails repeatedly)
    •And the introduction of Jesus Christ to the Jew (who has belief IN God...whom Also chooses to have Belief IN Jesus Christ...receives Gods internal Power...that gives them the Power of Absolute Eternal Faithfulness...without the Law)

    This was First Offered to the Jews.
    Then All of Israel.
    (After Jesus returned to Heaven...After the Apostles died off...the Jews/Israel pretty much all reverted back To the Law, and following, believing in Jesus Christ fell by the wayside)
    The OFFERING was extended to the Gentiles,
    (Primarily to provoke Jews/Israel to jealousy, that they might return and take their place as the Teachers in Service To God ... )
    Rom 11:11 "They didn't"!

    (That ^ also leads into highlights of the ORDER in the Great Tribulation in Revelations)

    Glory to God,
    Taken
     
  18. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't call your observing the nonsense "straying".

    God observes all the nonsense that goes on in this world.

    The disgust, anger, stomach churning at what you observe...is from the thoughts of your Heart being saddened.

    Which, first off, reveals the righteousness IN your Heart.

    All the nonsense, has NOT affected your Heart, "strayed" your heart...TO condone, join in, participate in the nonsense.

    The observing- oddly enough, IS revealing...THE DIVISION...
    God Established...
    Jesus reiterated...

    Luke 12:
    [51] Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

    Inasmuch as we can Observe the Division...
    So also does God.
    Jesus' return coming, is NOT to divide, but rather To Separate the Divided Unto Him, From the Divided, withOUT Him.

    Those With Christ ... observe the DIVISION with "a sadden heart"...and observe as a Sign...
    The INCREASING of this Dividing Against God, Knowing "the time shall be soon", He comes to Separate...and that ^..."soon" is the "comfort" of a saddened heart.

    Glory to God,
    Taken
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2020
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  19. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    'And you hath He quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
    Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world,
    according to the prince of the power of the air,
    the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
    Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh,
    fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind;
    and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.'

    (Ephesians 2:1-3)

    'This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord,
    that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk,
    in the vanity of their mind,
    Having the understanding darkened,
    being alienated from the life of God
    through the ignorance that is in them,
    because of the blindness of their heart: ... '

    (Ephesians 4:17-18)

    @Not me, @Ziggy, @farouk, @Davy,
    @Base12, @Hidden In Him, @Taken

    Hello there,

    Thank you all for your responses to my question. I am grateful that you took up the challenge and applied your mind to these two verses in order to respond, thank you to those who shared personal testimony too. I wanted to respond to each one, but I realise that time will not allow for that at the moment, but please know that I have read each one, and am indeed grateful for all the thoughts you have expressed.

    * The Lord has mercifully pulled me up short and made me look at my preoccupations, at those things that are occupying my mind, and are in effect feeding the flesh to the detriment of the spirit within. Empty (or vain) things, the products of other peoples minds, minds which are not intent on making the truth of God, in Christ Jesus, known, but on holding the mind captive and securing the affections. Cleverly written and produced programming by producers and directors which seek to hold the mind of the viewer to come back and back again each week to continue to the next installment of the drama unfolding. The enemy of our souls using any means to keep the mind and heart enthralled, so that their minds do not dwell upon their need of a Saviour, or seek the fulfillment that only God, in Christ, can give.

    * These things fulfill the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and while we are feeding them we are strengthening their hold upon the flesh and giving them the ascendancy. Friendship with the world is indeed enmity against God, isn't it? Satan is the god of this world, he seeks worship, and would keep the mind and heart of all men centred on anything but their need of God.

    * He would seek to impoverish the believers life in the spirit, by means of these empty activities, so that their growth in grace and truth and in the knowledge of God is diminished, and their witness blighted.

    Thank you
    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
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