Your Thoughts: 1 Thessalonians 2:1-9

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Hidden In Him

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Greetings in Christ Jesus.

In a previous study, I talked about how manifestations of the supernatural power of God and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit were described by Paul as "assurances" that the gospel of God was true. Now he would go on to list reasons why his own personal conduct as an apostle was likewise providing the Thessalonians with similar assurances. Among them were his continued faithfulness to preach the gospel even when suffering affliction for it, God being the true source behind his message and doctrine (not men), his not seeking glory, money or power over others, his habit of being genuine and caring with them rather than being dictatorial, and his lifestyle of working to pay his own way by supporting himself, so as not to be a financial burden to them.

I'll cite the passage below for those wishing to read it, but the questions are as follows:

1. Which of the following assurances (to new believers) do you feel are most important and why? (Note: After Charity's response, I'm changing the question to which do you feel might be the next most important, LoL. The first is too obvious now. :rolleyes: )

- Manifestations of God's power, such as healings, exorcisms, accurate words of knowledge or prophecies, etc.
- The outpouring of the Holy Spirit
- Christians leading a life of self-sacrifice, as demonstrated by preaching the truth even when suffering affliction for it
- Preaching messages and doctrine that are truly given by God, not men
- Ministers not seeking to attain glory, money or power over others, but who instead bear their own souls, and are caring and genuine
- Ministers who work to pay their own way, so as not to be a burden to those they minister to

2. How do you feel the modern church is currently doing in regard to providing any or all of the above?

I have my answers, but will wait to give them. If anyone has any other thoughts on how this passage speaks to them, feel free to share, and thanks in advance for contributing.
Hidden In Him

Passage:
For our good news did not come to you in word only, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit, and in great assurance, even as you know what type of men we were among you for your sakes… For you yourselves know, brothers, that the entrance we made unto you was not in vain, but having been treated abusively and made to suffer at Philippi beforehand, we were [nevertheless] bold in our God to speak the gospel of God to you amid great adversity, as you know. For our exhortation did not arise from error, nor [spiritual] uncleanness, nor deceitfulness, but as we have been approved by God to be entrusted with the gospel so we speak, not as being acceptable unto men but God, the One proving our hearts. For at no time did we come [to you] with a word of flattery, as you know, nor with any pretext of covetousness, God is our witness, nor did we seek glory from men - not from you or from others - [despite] having the power to be heavy-handed as apostles of Christ. But we were gentle in your midst, as a nursemaid cherishing her own children. Thus, longing for you, we were pleased to have imparted to you not only the gospel of God but our own souls as well, for you became dear unto us. For you remember, brothers, our labor and toil. We proclaimed the gospel of God to you while working night and day, so as not to be a burden to any of you. (1 Thessalonians 1:5, 2:1-9)

Previous Bible Study:
Your Thoughts: 1 Thessalonians 1:5-10

@marks, @charity, @Mayflower, @CharismaticLady, @amadeus, @Backlit, @Ronald Nolette, @Ferris Bueller, @Randy Kluth, @Heart2Soul, @Devin Wintch, @Pearl, @Jay Ross, @keithr, @CadyandZoe, @TLHKAJ, @Behold, @2nd Timothy Group, @mailmandan, @atpollard, @VictoryinJesus, @Nancy.
 
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marks

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For our good news did not come to you in word only, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit, and in great assurance, even as you know what type of men we were among you for your sakes… For you yourselves know, brothers, that the entrance we made unto you was not in vain, but having been treated abusively and made to suffer at Philippi beforehand, we were [nevertheless] bold in our God to speak the gospel of God to you amid great adversity, as you know. For our exhortation did not arise from error, nor [spiritual] uncleanness, nor deceitfulness, but as we have been approved by God to be entrusted with the gospel so we speak, not as being acceptable unto men but God, the One proving our hearts. For at no time did we come [to you] with a word of flattery, as you know, nor with any pretext of covetousness, God is our witness, nor did we seek glory from men - not from you or from others - [despite] having the power to be heavy-handed as apostles of Christ. But we were gentle in your midst, as a nursemaid cherishing her own children. Thus, longing for you, we were pleased to have imparted to you not only the gospel of God but our own souls as well, for you became dear unto us. For you remember, brothers, our labor and toil. We proclaimed the gospel of God to you while working night and day, so as not to be a burden to any of you. (1 Thessalonians 1:5, 2:1-9)

These are what I see stated:

but also in power and in the Holy Spirit, and in great assurance, even as you know what type of men we were among you for your sakes…

The witness of their lives.

but having been treated abusively and made to suffer at Philippi beforehand, we were [nevertheless] bold in our God to speak the gospel of God to you amid great adversity, as you know

Preaching even in spite of adversity.

we have been approved by God to be entrusted with the gospel so we speak

Speaking accurately.

But we were gentle in your midst, as a nursemaid cherishing her own children.

Gentle and caring.

For you remember, brothers, our labor and toil. We proclaimed the gospel of God to you while working night and day, so as not to be a burden to any of you.

Giving and not taking.

Not in word only, but in power, and in the Holy Spirit, and in great assurance.

In Paul's elaboration on this point, he doesn't name miracles, or healings, or speakings in tongues, or any of these things, what he names are the personal qualities he exhibited.

Much love!
 

marks

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2. How do you feel the modern church is currently doing in regard to providing any or all of the above?
I don't comment on "the modern church", but we do need to examine ourselves.

Much love!
 

Hidden In Him

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In Paul's elaboration on this point, he doesn't name miracles, or healings, or speakings in tongues, or any of these things, what he names are the personal qualities he exhibited.

Hi marks.

On this, we were covering that more in the previous study, but there's a link provided in the OP if you'd like to go back to it. I was hoping to get more into uses of the word "power," and how often it referred to supernatural manifestations such as the ones you are describing in the gospels, Acts, and the epistles. But we should probably deal with that discussion there rather than here.
I don't comment on "the modern church", but we do need to examine ourselves.

Much love!

Why?

Thanks or the response, and hope you are having a blessed day!
 

marks

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I was hoping to get more into uses of the word "power," and how often it referred to supernatural manifestations

I realize that. I was limiting my comments to what I saw in this passage itself, which, I noticed, parallels what you saw too.

:)

As for commenting on the "modern church", what exactly is that? My church? Your church? My perceptions of what I read online about other churches? The true church? The visible church? Christendom? I find I have direct knowledge in very few instances, and the rest is about stereotypes and rumor, and whatever else.

Much love!
 
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Hidden In Him

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As for commenting on the "modern church", what exactly is that? My church? Your church? My perceptions of what I read online about other churches? The true church? The visible church? Christendom? I find I have direct knowledge in very few instances, and the rest is about stereotypes and rumor, and whatever else.

Well there's a good question. :) I suppose I would use the word Christendom, speaking of typical mainline and/or trending Christianity. But anyone who wants to comment on their own church or denomination is welcome to. I do think there are a lot of stereotypes and rumor, but then we on the forums have usually been around quite a bit as well, so there is speaking from experience in many instances also.

Maybe that's the only truly reliable way to go these days.
 

charity

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Greetings in Christ Jesus.

In a previous study, I talked about how manifestations of the supernatural power of God and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit were described by Paul as "assurances" that the gospel of God was true. Now he would go on to list reasons why his own personal conduct as an apostle was likewise providing the Thessalonians with similar assurances. Among them were his continued faithfulness to preach the gospel even when suffering affliction for it, God being the true source behind his message and doctrine (not men), his not seeking glory, money or power over others, his habit of being genuine and caring with them rather than being dictatorial, and his lifestyle of working to pay his own way by supporting himself, so as not to be a financial burden to them.

I'll cite the passage below for those wishing to read it, but the questions are as follows:

1. Which of the following assurances (to new believers) do you feel are most important and why?

- Manifestations of God's power, such as healings, exorcisms, accurate words of knowledge or prophecies, etc.
- The outpouring of the Holy Spirit
- Christians leading a life of self-sacrifice, as demonstrated by preaching the truth even when suffering affliction for it
- Preaching messages and doctrine that are truly given by God, not men
- Ministers not seeking to attain glory, money or power over others, but who instead bear their own souls, and are caring and genuine
- Ministers who work to pay their own way, so as not to be a burden to those they minister to

2. How do you feel the modern church is currently doing in regard to providing any or all of the above?

I have my answers, but will wait to give them. If anyone has any other thoughts on how this passage speaks to them, feel free to share, and thanks in advance for contributing.
Hidden In Him

Passage:
For our good news did not come to you in word only, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit, and in great assurance, even as you know what type of men we were among you for your sakes… For you yourselves know, brothers, that the entrance we made unto you was not in vain, but having been treated abusively and made to suffer at Philippi beforehand, we were [nevertheless] bold in our God to speak the gospel of God to you amid great adversity, as you know. For our exhortation did not arise from error, nor [spiritual] uncleanness, nor deceitfulness, but as we have been approved by God to be entrusted with the gospel so we speak, not as being acceptable unto men but God, the One proving our hearts. For at no time did we come [to you] with a word of flattery, as you know, nor with any pretext of covetousness, God is our witness, nor did we seek glory from men - not from you or from others - [despite] having the power to be heavy-handed as apostles of Christ. But we were gentle in your midst, as a nursemaid cherishing her own children. Thus, longing for you, we were pleased to have imparted to you not only the gospel of God but our own souls as well, for you became dear unto us. For you remember, brothers, our labor and toil. We proclaimed the gospel of God to you while working night and day, so as not to be a burden to any of you. (1 Thessalonians 1:5, 2:1-9)

Previous Bible Study:
Your Thoughts: 1 Thessalonians 1:5-10

@marks, @charity, @Mayflower, @CharismaticLady, @amadeus, @Backlit, @Ronald Nolette, @Ferris Bueller, @Randy Kluth, @Heart2Soul, @Devin Wintch, @Pearl, @Jay Ross, @keithr, @CadyandZoe, @TLHKAJ, @Behold, @2nd Timothy Group, @mailmandan, @atpollard, @VictoryinJesus, @Nancy
.
Hello @Hidden In Him,

You ask two questions:-
1. Which of the following assurances (to new believers) do you feel are most important and why?
2. How do you feel the modern church is currently doing in regard to providing any or all of the above?

- I am sorry, but I have no answer to the second question, for I do not move in Christian circles, so have no means of knowing.
- In answer to the first question: I believe it was the faithful ministration of the gospel of God, which secured the Thessalonian believers: because it is 'the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth' (Romans 1:16). The witness borne by Paul and his fellow-workers in adversity, and their faithfulness under trial would have endeared them to the Thessalonian believers: and been a source of inspiration, and assurance to them; but ultimately it is the word of God that bears fruit in any individual believer, and it is the Holy Spirit who strengthens their faith, and secures them in the love of God by the ministration of His Word.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 

Hidden In Him

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- I am sorry, but I have no answer to the second question, for I do not move in Christian circles, so have no means of knowing.

Really... How come? I would have taken you for a staunch church goer if anyone had asked me.
- In answer to the first question: I believe it was the faithful ministration of the gospel of God, which secured the Thessalonian believers: because it is 'the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth' (Romans 1:16). The witness borne by Paul and his fellow-workers in adversity, and their faithfulness under trial would have endeared them to the Thessalonian believers: and been a source of inspiration, and assurance to them; but ultimately it is the word of God that bears fruit in any individual believer, and it is the Holy Spirit who strengthens their faith, and secures them in the love of God by the ministration of His Word.

I like this answer. Mine was going to be manifestations and outpourings, but actually now that I think about it more, both end up being a detriment if the true gospel is not what is being preached (not that any of them are unimportant, but it has to be the true word that's preached, or all else will support a lie).
 
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charity

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@Hidden In Him said:-
charity said:-
I am sorry, but I have no answer to the second question, (2. How do you feel the modern church is currently doing in regard to providing any or all of the above?) for I do not move in Christian circles, so have no means of knowing.
Really... How come? I would have taken you for a staunch church goer if anyone had asked me.
Hello there,

I believe it was the Lord who brought me out of the denominations, though it was I who left of course. This took place when I was in my thirties. The Lord has provided fellowship in ones and twos since then. My personal study had caused me to question certain aspects of the doctrine taught in the pulpit, and rather than cause strife I chose to leave.

My Bible study continued with the help of study literature and audio teaching provided by an organisation which I found trustworthy, and the Lord has kept me close and taught me. Praise His Holy Name!

I belong to 'The Church which is His Body, the fulness of Him that filleth all in all' (Ephesians 1:22-23), Christ is the Head of that body, and when He appears in glory, I, as part of that company will 'appear' with Him there. This is not an organisation, but an organism, by invisible joints and bands having nourishment ministered and increasing with the increase of God. It is rooted and grounded in the love of God and of Christ.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris
 

Hidden In Him

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I believe it was the Lord who brought me out of the denominations, though it was I who left of course. This took place when I was in my thirties. The Lord has provided fellowship in ones and twos since then. My personal study had caused me to question certain aspects of the doctrine taught in the pulpit, and rather than cause strife I chose to leave.

He brought me out in my thirties as well, and for the exact same reasons. I found it unwise to continue taking in teaching when so much of was turning out to be false, because unlearning it was harder than simply cutting it off at the source. Never regretted the decision.

I suppose this explains why you're one of the more astute Bible students on this forum. Even though we disagree some, I noticed actual discussion of the word of God is what interests you most.
I belong to 'The Church which is His Body, the fulness of Him that filleth all in all' (Ephesians 1:22-23), Christ is the Head of that body, and when He appears in glory, I, as part of that company will 'appear' with Him there. This is not an organisation, but an organism, by invisible joints and bands having nourishment ministered and increasing with the increase of God. It is rooted and grounded in the love of God and of Christ.

Amen.
 
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Grailhunter

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Greetings in Christ Jesus.

In a previous study, I talked about how manifestations of the supernatural power of God and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit were described by Paul as "assurances" that the gospel of God was true. Now he would go on to list reasons why his own personal conduct as an apostle was likewise providing the Thessalonians with similar assurances. Among them were his continued faithfulness to preach the gospel even when suffering affliction for it, God being the true source behind his message and doctrine (not men), his not seeking glory, money or power over others, his habit of being genuine and caring with them rather than being dictatorial, and his lifestyle of working to pay his own way by supporting himself, so as not to be a financial burden to them.

I'll cite the passage below for those wishing to read it, but the questions are as follows:

1. Which of the following assurances (to new believers) do you feel are most important and why? (Note: After Charity's response, I'm changing the question to which do you feel might be the next most important, LoL. The first is too obvious now. :rolleyes: )

- Manifestations of God's power, such as healings, exorcisms, accurate words of knowledge or prophecies, etc.
- The outpouring of the Holy Spirit
- Christians leading a life of self-sacrifice, as demonstrated by preaching the truth even when suffering affliction for it
- Preaching messages and doctrine that are truly given by God, not men
- Ministers not seeking to attain glory, money or power over others, but who instead bear their own souls, and are caring and genuine
- Ministers who work to pay their own way, so as not to be a burden to those they minister to

2. How do you feel the modern church is currently doing in regard to providing any or all of the above?

I have my answers, but will wait to give them. If anyone has any other thoughts on how this passage speaks to them, feel free to share, and thanks in advance for contributing.
Hidden In Him

Passage:
For our good news did not come to you in word only, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit, and in great assurance, even as you know what type of men we were among you for your sakes… For you yourselves know, brothers, that the entrance we made unto you was not in vain, but having been treated abusively and made to suffer at Philippi beforehand, we were [nevertheless] bold in our God to speak the gospel of God to you amid great adversity, as you know. For our exhortation did not arise from error, nor [spiritual] uncleanness, nor deceitfulness, but as we have been approved by God to be entrusted with the gospel so we speak, not as being acceptable unto men but God, the One proving our hearts. For at no time did we come [to you] with a word of flattery, as you know, nor with any pretext of covetousness, God is our witness, nor did we seek glory from men - not from you or from others - [despite] having the power to be heavy-handed as apostles of Christ. But we were gentle in your midst, as a nursemaid cherishing her own children. Thus, longing for you, we were pleased to have imparted to you not only the gospel of God but our own souls as well, for you became dear unto us. For you remember, brothers, our labor and toil. We proclaimed the gospel of God to you while working night and day, so as not to be a burden to any of you. (1 Thessalonians 1:5, 2:1-9)

Previous Bible Study:
Your Thoughts: 1 Thessalonians 1:5-10

@marks, @charity, @Mayflower, @CharismaticLady, @amadeus, @Backlit, @Ronald Nolette, @Ferris Bueller, @Randy Kluth, @Heart2Soul, @Devin Wintch, @Pearl, @Jay Ross, @keithr, @CadyandZoe, @TLHKAJ, @Behold, @2nd Timothy Group, @mailmandan, @atpollard, @VictoryinJesus, @Nancy.

Good thread. Deeply heart that you did not invite me....I will go eat worms later.
I will hold off on my response...Because I want to include some thoughts.
 
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Grailhunter

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Hi marks.

On this, we were covering that more in the previous study, but there's a link provided in the OP if you'd like to go back to it. I was hoping to get more into uses of the word "power," and how often it referred to supernatural manifestations such as the ones you are describing in the gospels, Acts, and the epistles. But we should probably deal with that discussion there rather than here.


Why?

Thanks or the response, and hope you are having a blessed day!

How many people here (on this international forum) do not go to church because they were somehow offended or let down by the church?
If we were to give an example to "new believers" using your choices....we may need a few other options.