Hi Guys, As you know God has led me to revise my timeline and He is slowly revealing a little bit here and there. Some of this has already in been said in the Timeline Questions post but to make my life easier, I will repeat it here.
We know another day of judgment is coming according to
Rev. 20: 7-9 - “And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."
Apparently, no one believes there are any other prophecies in the bible concerning this time but I believe that some of the prophecies normally considered to be post-trib timing may instead be of this time as I believe the situations will be very similar.
What we don't know is how long satan will be allowed to deceive the nations. It could be hundreds of years. I've always considered Ez.38 to be a prophecy of this time. I never really considered that there may be other prophecies concerning this time, some that we always assumed to be end of the 70th week timing until recently.
One of those things I don’t understand is why those who defend the chronology of passages such as Ez. 37-48, would then turn around and reject the apparent chronology of parts of Zech. just because it doesn’t jibe with their viewpoint. Previously, in Zech. 12 we have both the physical and spiritual “salvation” of Judah. I think we all can agree that this is Armageddon/ beginning of the millennium timing. Zech. 13 continues that timing and reveals that the righteous remnant will consist of 1/3 of Israel.
There is one passage in particular that God showed me. It's Zech 14. (words in parenthesis are mine)
Zech. 14:1-21- “Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. (the day of the Lord, imo, goes from the 7th seal rapture/resurrection all the way through the GWTJ)
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
(now go back and read Rev. 20:8. I think the rest of vs. 2 just expands and adds detail to Rev. 20:8)
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
( It makes sense to me that when this phrase is used it is speaking of Armageddon as history, so in a way, as is frequently true, history is repeating itself. When reading this I don't get the "sense" that the prophet is referencing a recent event within the future time being spoken of but one of long ago, about a thousand years or so.)
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. (Here people erroneously think it is speaking of His second advent when, imo, it is not.)
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: (Many folks also believe, and I was one of them, that this part of the verse coincides with Rev. 12:14, but I no longer believe it does.)
and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
(the word “come” is key to understanding this chapter. In the NT the word “parousia” means His arrival, if this verse was trying to depict the same thing it would have used the word, “athah” but instead the word, “bow” is used which has several meanings such as abide, depart, go and enter. So what I believe this verse is saying is that “the Lord will accompany the saints into Azal, as a shepherd, while God is bringing fire down upon the nations that came against Jerusalem“.)
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
(Compare this with Rev. 21:23 - “And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.” Imo, this is when the NJ comes down.)
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
(Compare this with Rev. 22:1-2 - “And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.”
Nothing in scripture implies that the NJ ever settles upon the earth thus a waterfall could be used to bring the water from the throne to the earth.
9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
(This verse just shows what the judgment of God in Rev. 20:9 looks like. This “devouring fire“ is not world wide but is concentrated just on those armies that are coming against Jerusalem)
13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult
(a time of confusion and uproar) from the Lord shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.
14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem;
( there will still be some enemies in the countryside throughout Israel, which will be quite large at that time.) and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance. (Obviously, the Lord doesn’t burn off all the “works of men” as some believe or there would be nothing left to gather)
15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
( Now this (vss. 16-19) is always assumed to be talking about the millennium, but why? We have the destruction of the Rev. 20:9 armies and we have the GWTJ of the dead who didn’t make it in the first resurrection. That leaves, most likely, billions of people unaccounted for. Anything we may speculate as to their fate isn’t really worth debating about but is just something best kept in our own minds.)
20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, Holiness Unto The Lord; and the pots in the Lord's house shall be like the bowls before the altar.
21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the Lord of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the Lord of host.”
In my mind, I’ve always thought that once the GWTJ occurred and the NJ comes down there would be no more “humanity”. All humanity would either be in heaven or hell but scripture never actually says this.
Zech. 14:16 - 19 seems to correspond with Rev. 21:24, 26 - “And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it… 26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.”
and Rev. 22:15 - “For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” ( I don’t believe this is a picture of hell. I believe it is just saying there will be unrighteous people left upon the earth,)
as well as, Is. 66:22-24 - “For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord. 24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.”
I am not saying that this is the way it is. I’m just saying there are viable, alternative theories that should be considered when studying prophetic scriptures. If we believe that Dan. 12:4 includes prophetic knowledge, how will it ever increase if we never look beyond the accepted viewpoints that we all have.
We know another day of judgment is coming according to
Rev. 20: 7-9 - “And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."
Apparently, no one believes there are any other prophecies in the bible concerning this time but I believe that some of the prophecies normally considered to be post-trib timing may instead be of this time as I believe the situations will be very similar.
What we don't know is how long satan will be allowed to deceive the nations. It could be hundreds of years. I've always considered Ez.38 to be a prophecy of this time. I never really considered that there may be other prophecies concerning this time, some that we always assumed to be end of the 70th week timing until recently.
One of those things I don’t understand is why those who defend the chronology of passages such as Ez. 37-48, would then turn around and reject the apparent chronology of parts of Zech. just because it doesn’t jibe with their viewpoint. Previously, in Zech. 12 we have both the physical and spiritual “salvation” of Judah. I think we all can agree that this is Armageddon/ beginning of the millennium timing. Zech. 13 continues that timing and reveals that the righteous remnant will consist of 1/3 of Israel.
There is one passage in particular that God showed me. It's Zech 14. (words in parenthesis are mine)
Zech. 14:1-21- “Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. (the day of the Lord, imo, goes from the 7th seal rapture/resurrection all the way through the GWTJ)
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
(now go back and read Rev. 20:8. I think the rest of vs. 2 just expands and adds detail to Rev. 20:8)
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
( It makes sense to me that when this phrase is used it is speaking of Armageddon as history, so in a way, as is frequently true, history is repeating itself. When reading this I don't get the "sense" that the prophet is referencing a recent event within the future time being spoken of but one of long ago, about a thousand years or so.)
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. (Here people erroneously think it is speaking of His second advent when, imo, it is not.)
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: (Many folks also believe, and I was one of them, that this part of the verse coincides with Rev. 12:14, but I no longer believe it does.)
and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
(the word “come” is key to understanding this chapter. In the NT the word “parousia” means His arrival, if this verse was trying to depict the same thing it would have used the word, “athah” but instead the word, “bow” is used which has several meanings such as abide, depart, go and enter. So what I believe this verse is saying is that “the Lord will accompany the saints into Azal, as a shepherd, while God is bringing fire down upon the nations that came against Jerusalem“.)
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
(Compare this with Rev. 21:23 - “And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.” Imo, this is when the NJ comes down.)
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
(Compare this with Rev. 22:1-2 - “And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.”
Nothing in scripture implies that the NJ ever settles upon the earth thus a waterfall could be used to bring the water from the throne to the earth.
9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
(This verse just shows what the judgment of God in Rev. 20:9 looks like. This “devouring fire“ is not world wide but is concentrated just on those armies that are coming against Jerusalem)
13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult
(a time of confusion and uproar) from the Lord shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.
14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem;
( there will still be some enemies in the countryside throughout Israel, which will be quite large at that time.) and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance. (Obviously, the Lord doesn’t burn off all the “works of men” as some believe or there would be nothing left to gather)
15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
( Now this (vss. 16-19) is always assumed to be talking about the millennium, but why? We have the destruction of the Rev. 20:9 armies and we have the GWTJ of the dead who didn’t make it in the first resurrection. That leaves, most likely, billions of people unaccounted for. Anything we may speculate as to their fate isn’t really worth debating about but is just something best kept in our own minds.)
20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, Holiness Unto The Lord; and the pots in the Lord's house shall be like the bowls before the altar.
21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the Lord of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the Lord of host.”
In my mind, I’ve always thought that once the GWTJ occurred and the NJ comes down there would be no more “humanity”. All humanity would either be in heaven or hell but scripture never actually says this.
Zech. 14:16 - 19 seems to correspond with Rev. 21:24, 26 - “And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it… 26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.”
and Rev. 22:15 - “For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” ( I don’t believe this is a picture of hell. I believe it is just saying there will be unrighteous people left upon the earth,)
as well as, Is. 66:22-24 - “For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord. 24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.”
I am not saying that this is the way it is. I’m just saying there are viable, alternative theories that should be considered when studying prophetic scriptures. If we believe that Dan. 12:4 includes prophetic knowledge, how will it ever increase if we never look beyond the accepted viewpoints that we all have.
