James Was Not Talking about Faith in Jesus Christ for Salvation

Episkopos said:

You would have to do a non biased study on righteousness. You will find only a very few verses that condemn human righteousness...and that is because it is being trusted in as something that covers a person...which it does not.

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The thing with human righteousness . . . it falls short. All have sinned and fallen short of God's glory, and doing good things doesn't erase the death of having sinned. The walking dead with their Human righteousness, it does not save. Only by blood is sin removed. Only by blood.

And human righteousness does not reconcile a dead man to God. God accepted such - then Jesus came, and the point was moot. Salvation is through Christ. Do you spurn Christ proclaiming the goodness of your works? Do you debase His work, that is has to be supported by your own? Jesus gets you partway, but you pick up the slack?

We are to live holy lives serving the Lord.

I love to ask people, what does justification mean to you? And how reconciled to God are we?

Scriptural answers are best.

Much love!

Christ4Me said:

@Ernest T. Bass

James 2:1My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

The fact that he is still addressing them as brethren proves they are still saved but yet in need to repent of respecting people over others which the church was doing in mistreating and disrespecting the poor believers just because they were poor.

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"What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone."

The warning/admonishment is becoming lost by having a faith void of obedience to God. Then James proceeds to use Abraham and Rahab as examples of an justification by having an obedient faith. "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only" but some do not want to see that by works a man is justified for it does not fit their particular theological bias.

Christ4Me said:

Amen. No need for a

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So . . . how do you answer the question, your own words, what is justification?

Romans 6:7 YLT
7) for he who hath died hath been set free from the sin.

Literally reading, the one having died has been justified away from sin. What does that mean?

Much love!

marks said:

I'll bite.

How are works that save not meritorious? That sound's like a contradiction to me.

Much love!

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Because they are Gods works not mans.

The confusion is caused by not understanding that the Bible teaches different kinds of works in the scriptures.

Does Gods work save us? Colossians 2:12, Yes.
Then to say the gospel is faith and no works is unbiblical.
We know we are saved by the works of God.

We must do works in His gospel.
But not works of man, Ephesians 2:8-9.

No works of any kind is what you are teaching.
This doctrine of belief only is leaving out God.
For God saves us through His works.

We are saved when God works His saving power through us,
Acts 10:35
But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness(works of God) is accepted by Him.

We must repent to be saved as an example, Acts 3:19,
Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord

This repentance is a work of God just as belief in Jesus is a work of God, John 6:28-29.
Why?
Because God authorized faith and repentance.
Man did not add faith and repentance to Jesus' gospel as a requirement to be saved.
God authored faith, repentance, baptism etc, as prerequisites in His Gospel.
This is why when we obey Gods commandments like repentance, we are working the works of God.
And only these kind of works save us, Acts 10:35, works righteousness i.e. commandments of God.
Not works of men, Ephesians 2:8-9.

Eternally Grateful said:

there is no such thing as faith alone

So your faith only remark is false and has no merit

A work of merit is a work done to merit a reward, Wage or something in return.

You preach we must do works to merit salvation.

So you preach works of merit. No matter how you try to spin it.

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14 - What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
17 - Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
20 - But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
24 - Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

According to James there IS such a thing as faith alone for in v14 faith alone is "that" kind of faith that cannot save being void of obedient works.

And you continue to avoid the truth by calling obedience a work of merit.

"2:20 "But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?"

"But are you willing to recognize" -Inferring the previous truths had been clear, plain and simple to understand. James conclusion is so clear that he calls upon all who disagree with him to abandon their foolishness and admit the obvious.

"you foolish fellow" -literally an empty-headed fellow. The person who would even attempt to argue that mere belief can save a person is lacking reason and the truth. Notice that James doesn't say, "Let's agree to disagree" or "your point is just as valid as mine".

"that faith without works is useless?" -Draper gives a good illustration when he says, "If I tell my wife I love her and never go home or provide her with any of the necessities, do you think she would believe me?…..We have created a entire culture of Christianity in America where we say we believe things that we are not practicing" (p. 90). But the real tragic thing is that there are people in this country who would argue that they love their mate or their mate loves them, even when they are treating each other in a horrible manner. There are a good number of people who would disagree with Draper's above point. James calls such people "foolish" and "empty-headed".
Dunagan's Commentary (my emp)

James uses the demons as example of faith only and no works,
James 2:19
You believe there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe(faith alone) and tremble.
Faith alone exists but only in the negative in scripture, James 2:24.

Titus said:

Because they are Gods works not mans.

The confusion is caused by not understanding that the Bible teaches different kinds of works in the scriptures.

Does Gods work save us? Colossians 2:12, Yes.
Then to say the gospel is faith and no works is unbiblical.
We know we are saved by the works of God.

We must do works in His gospel.
But not works of man, Ephesians 2:8-9.

No works of any kind is what you are teaching.
This doctrine of belief only is leaving out God.
For God saves us through His works.

We are saved when God works His saving power through us,
Acts 10:35
But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness(works of God) is accepted by Him.

We must repent to be saved as an example, Acts 3:19,
Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord

This repentance is a work of God just as belief in Jesus is a work of God, John 6:28-29.
Why?
Because God authorized faith and repentance.
Man did not add faith and repentance to Jesus' gospel as a requirement to be saved.
God authored faith, repentance, baptism etc, as prerequisites in His Gospel.
This is why when we obey Gods commandments like repentance, we are working the works of God.
And only these kind of works save us, Acts 10:35, works righteousness i.e. commandments of God.
Not works of men, Ephesians 2:8-9.

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Interesting point of view. I've never heard this before. If I'm understanding you rightly. Let's see . . .

God does works through us, and those works that God does through us are meritorious to our salvation. Do I understand correctly?

Much love!

Titus said:

Because they are Gods works not mans.

The confusion is caused by not understanding that the Bible teaches different kinds of works in the scriptures.

Does Gods work save us? Colossians 2:12, Yes.
Then to say the gospel is faith and no works is unbiblical.
We know we are saved by the works of God.

We must do works in His gospel.
But not works of man, Ephesians 2:8-9.

No works of any kind is what you are teaching.
This doctrine of belief only is leaving out God.
For God saves us through His works.

We are saved when God works His saving power through us,
Acts 10:35
But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness(works of God) is accepted by Him.

We must repent to be saved as an example, Acts 3:19,
Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord

This repentance is a work of God just as belief in Jesus is a work of God, John 6:28-29.
Why?
Because God authorized faith and repentance.
Man did not add faith and repentance to Jesus' gospel as a requirement to be saved.
God authored faith, repentance, baptism etc, as prerequisites in His Gospel.
This is why when we obey Gods commandments like repentance, we are working the works of God.
And only these kind of works save us, Acts 10:35, works righteousness i.e. commandments of God.
Not works of men, Ephesians 2:8-9.

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Romans 10:3
"For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God."

The faith onlyist tries to lump all works together as if all works are the same, hence they try and call obedience to God's commands a work of merit to then turn attack obedience as a work of merit. But from Romans 10:3 it is plain to see all works are not the same. Those Jews were lost for doing the wrong KIND of work, they were lost for going about to establish their OWN righteousness instead of obeying GOD'S righteousness which would have saved them. There is a refusal on the faith onlyist part to see the difference between one doing his OWN righteousness and one doing GOD'S righteousness. So they try and call doing GOD'S righteousness a work of merit trying to equate obedience to God the same thing as one doing his OWN righteousness.

Titus said:

More misrepresentation by you and Danthemailman.

I teach we are not saved by meritorious works salvation.

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You can add the word meritorious in front of the word works all you want.

You still preach salvation by works

Hence @mailmandan and myself are not misrepresenting you. We are correct in the fact you do teach works.

I do believe we are saved by working the works of God, John 6:28-29.
This is the same kind of works James teaches justifies, saves us, James 2:24.

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The works of John 6 and the works James talk about are not the same

Jesus said it is the work of God. Not our works.

James speaks of our works.

So no, I did not contradict.

Did James contradict himself when he said works of faith justify?

I am teaching the same.

Faith with obedient works, save.

Not what you said I said,
i.e. "but we must do works of men to merit salvation".
You are gulity of twisting my words.

The kinds of works that save makes all the difference in what I am teaching.

Since there are different kinds of works in the Bible.
I am not contradicting myself by teaching works save but not meritorious works as you wrongly accuse me of teaching.

Do we do works of man to be saved? No, Ephesians 2:8-9.
Do we work the works of God to be saved, John 6:28-29, Yes.
Then they said to Him, "What may we do, that we may work the works of God?"
Jesus answered and said to them, This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.

Even your false gospel of belief only and no works has a work of God. Faith in Jesus Christ.
Yet you contradict your own gospel by saying there are no works in salvation.

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You teach we must be baptized in water (a work) to be saved.

Hence you teach salvation by works,

I do not contradict myself. because the bible says we are saved by faith not works, period

But those who are saved WILL do works.

The issue here is you preach works of merit. which is false (titus 3: 5, Eph 2: 8-9 and romans 4) I preach works of gratitude and love of one who is saved by grace not works (eph 2: 10)

Ernest T. Bass said:

14 - What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
17 - Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
20 - But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
24 - Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

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James said they CLAIM they have faith, He never said he had faith. so your wrong

According to James there IS such a thing as faith alone for in v14 faith alone is "that" kind of faith that cannot save being void of obedient works.

And you continue to avoid the truth by calling obedience a work of merit.

"2:20 "But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?"

"But are you willing to recognize" -Inferring the previous truths had been clear, plain and simple to understand. James conclusion is so clear that he calls upon all who disagree with him to abandon their foolishness and admit the obvious.

"you foolish fellow" -literally an empty-headed fellow. The person who would even attempt to argue that mere belief can save a person is lacking reason and the truth. Notice that James doesn't say, "Let's agree to disagree" or "your point is just as valid as mine".

"that faith without works is useless?" -Draper gives a good illustration when he says, "If I tell my wife I love her and never go home or provide her with any of the necessities, do you think she would believe me?…..We have created a entire culture of Christianity in America where we say we believe things that we are not practicing" (p. 90). But the real tragic thing is that there are people in this country who would argue that they love their mate or their mate loves them, even when they are treating each other in a horrible manner. There are a good number of people who would disagree with Draper's above point. James calls such people "foolish" and "empty-headed".
Dunagan's Commentary (my emp)

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James equaled their claimed faith to two things

1. It was mere belief ( you believe there is one god you do well even domons believe)
2. It was dead.

A dead faith is no faith at all. It is not living. It never had life. thats WHY there were not works.

marks said:

Interesting point of view. I've never heard this before. If I'm understanding you rightly. Let's see . . .

God does works through us, and those works that God does through us are meritorious to our salvation. Do I understand correctly?

Much love!

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No, no earning anything in salvation period.
Danthemailman likes to use straw man arguments by misrepresenting what I believe and teach.
He makes the mistake that most all sola fide followers make.
Grouping all works of every kind as meritorious before salvation.
Then magically changing there meanings after one is saved, Ephesians 2:10, tells us we are created for good works.

Here is the problem with the no works to be saved doctrine.

If all works of every kind are meritorious before salvation
.
Then to be consistent in that reasoning,
All works of every kind after salvation must be meritorious.

Therefore if christians do good works, Ephesians 2:10,
This is meriting salvation also, because those exact good works before salvation are meritorious according to the faith alone and no works of any kind salvationists.

Titus said:

No, no earning anything in salvation period.
Danthemailman likes to use straw man arguments by misrepresenting what I believe and teach.
He makes the mistake that most all sola fide followers make.
Grouping all works of every kind as meritorious before salvation.
Then magically changing there meanings after one is saved, Ephesians 2:10, tells us we are created for good works.

Here is the problem with the no works to be saved doctrine.

If all works of every kind are meritorious before salvation
.
Then to be consistent in that reasoning,
All works of every kind after salvation must be meritorious.

Therefore if christians do good works, Ephesians 2:10,
This is meriting salvation also, because those exact good works before salvation are meritorious according to the faith alone and no works of any kind salvationists.

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As I've been reading your posts, truthfully, I'm having a hard time seeing past what seem to me to be contradictions. Can you simplify what you are saying?

I believe we are saved by being reborn from God, moved from Adam's humanity to Christ's humanity, being created anew the spirit child of God. As such, we go on to live changed lives, living out our new nature to greater and greater degrees.

That "living out our new nature" is us doing the works of faith that James speaks of.

You?

Much love!

Titus said:

Therefore if christians do good works, Ephesians 2:10,
This is meriting salvation also, because those exact good works before salvation are meritorious according to the faith alone and no works of any kind salvationists.

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OK, maybe it just clicked in. I don't think meritorious is the right word there, I'd say indicative.

Much love!

Titus said:

James uses the demons as example of faith only and no works,
James 2:19
You believe there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe(faith alone) and tremble.
Faith alone exists but only in the negative in scripture, James 2:24.

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You still don’t get it. In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3) Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works are evidences for, or against a man being in a state of righteousness. For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. (Matthew 12:34)

God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.."The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." That is the "sense" in which God was "justified,." He was shown to be righteous.

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."

Titus said:

James uses the demons as example of faith only and no works,
James 2:19
You believe there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe(faith alone) and tremble.
Faith alone exists but only in the negative in scripture, James 2:24.

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here is the issue

Demons believe there is one god.

They had NO FAITH in that one god. Thats why they are demons and no longer angels.

If they had FAITH in that one God. they never would have followed the adversary of that one God (satan)

Belief can be faith

But not all belief is faith.

That was the point James was saying.

If you trust someone (say you trust someone) and NEVER do what they ask. DO you really trust them?

No. You have no trust, your trust is dead.

marks said:

The thing with human righteousness . . . it falls short. All have sinned and fallen short of God's glory, and doing good things doesn't erase the death of having sinned. The walking dead with their Human righteousness, it does not save. Only by blood is sin removed. Only by blood.

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Of course human righteousness falls short. No one is saying otherwise. Windows are used in houses. But you can't make a house entirely of windows. But a house without windows is more like a prison than a house. So windows are desirable. Only a convict would argue against the importance of windows. So the accusation of human righteousness replacing God's righteousness is a strawman argument at best. God USES human righteousness..He loves it and builds on it. Otherwise we would not be redeemable.

The denial of human righteousness makes a person call good evil and evil good. That is the issue. The Old Testament is meant as instruction in righteousness. (See 1 Tim) It is only when someone tries to justify themselves that self-righteousness is present. God doesn't condemn the meek and humble. They actually inherit the earth. They are deemed righteous by God if not modern neo-evangelicals.

First: Human righteousness is to work with the added covering of God's righteousness. Human righteousness is an "uncovered righteouness" meaning that there is the weakness of the flesh to consider and a temptation to "cover-up" one's sinfulness with schemes that are not connected to God and His Spirit. God calls this "adding sin to sin." (Is 30:1)

Why is this important to understand? Because many believers unwittingly try to cover their own sins by their beliefs.

Which leads to point # 2: Only by LIFE is sin overcome. Death does not overcome death. Life overcomes death.

Point #3: If death is what is relied upon for forgiveness, that creates a religion of death. This is what we see stemming from the modern gospel. People assume their sins are covered by their beliefs...which is trying to cover one's own sins by a method other than the life of Christ...therefore adding sin to sin. Unless the life of the Spirit COVERS the walk...in victory over sin, all claims to purity in Christ just adds another layer of sin...or iniquity.

marks said:

And human righteousness does not reconcile a dead man to God. God accepted such - then Jesus came, and the point was moot. Salvation is through Christ. Do you spurn Christ proclaiming the goodness of your works? Do you debase His work, that is has to be supported by your own? Jesus gets you partway, but you pick up the slack?

We are to live holy lives serving the Lord.

I love to ask people, what does justification mean to you? And how reconciled to God are we?

Scriptural answers are best.

Much love!

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Don't you think I already know the scheme that is being preached in the pulpits of the fallen established institutions? Ideology doesn't save anyone. It leads to assumptions and presumptions that will be uncovered on judgment day.

We are created for good works...and works prepared in advance. This should not cause panic among those who are afraid to lift a finger for righteousness' sake for fear it will spoil their salvation scheme.

But God loves righteousness. He covers the righteous with His own so that they are empowered to walk as Jesus walked. Notice that Jesus didn't come to call the righteous to repentance. The doctrine of devils is to insist that Jesus spoke tongue-in-cheek and actually meant the "self" righteous. The irony here is that in believing that you actually do become self-righteous. How many claim to be forgiven even for sins they are about to commit? What a scheme!

There is a difference between an ideological bent and a scriptural teaching. If you actually checked what I write against the bible you would see that I use verses that no assuming and presuming believer would go near. But you can't avoid most of the scriptures and still call it truth.

Titus said:

James asks the question if faith alone without works of obedience can save us? James 2:14.

Another contradiction.

Saved by faith without works(obedience) you said.
But then you say "but faith is never alone" (without works).

Your definition of saving faith contradicts itself Sir.

If true saving faith is never alone as you admitted.
Then we cannot also be saved by a faith that has no obedience or belief only as James taught,
James 2:24
You see then that a man is justified by works(obedience) and NOT by faith only(faith with no works).

You teach the definition of true trusting faith has works.
Then you contradict your definition of true trusting faith by saying it has no works.

This is double talk.

James does not contradict his definition of true saving Biblical faith.

James teaches faith that saves always obeys God.
James explains faith without works(faith alone) is dead!
As dead as a corpse with no soul,
James 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

For anyone to claim we are saved by a faith with no works.
Is to claim we are saved by a dead faith according to James!

A dead faith can save no one.

True genuine trusting saving faith, has works of obedience according to James,
James 2:24.

James teaches the only kind of faith that justifies is a living working faith.
Faith alone ie faith without works is a dead faith that cannot justify according to James.

For our faith to save us. We must be justified by or obedient works, James 2:24.
Only God justifies us. No one can be saved before we are justified.

James 2:24
You see then that a man is justified by works(obedience to Gods commandments) and not by faith only(faith with no obedience to God).

Romans 8:30
Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

Conclusion: James and Paul taught God justifies us when our faith is not without obedience (dead faith)
But when we have a living, obedient faith( faith that obeys God ), James 2:24.

This is true, trusting, living faith before and after salvation.
No double talk.
There is only one acceptable faith that saves.
It is not faith alone(dead faith)
But a living working obedient faith, James 2:24 ;
Galatians 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.
1Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.
Matthew 12:50
For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and My sister and mother.

True saving faith is never without obedience(dead faith), James 2:19
True saving faith is a faith that obeys God, Galatians 5:6 ; James 2:24 ; Matthew 12:50

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Titus said:

James asks the question if faith alone without works of obedience can save us? James 2:14.

Another contradiction.

Saved by faith without works(obedience) you said.
But then you say "but faith is never alone" (without works).

Your definition of saving faith contradicts itself Sir.

If true saving faith is never alone as you admitted.
Then we cannot also be saved by a faith that has no obedience or belief only as James taught,
James 2:24
You see then that a man is justified by works(obedience) and NOT by faith only(faith with no works).

You teach the definition of true trusting faith has works.
Then you contradict your definition of true trusting faith by saying it has no works.

This is double talk.

James does not contradict his definition of true saving Biblical faith.

James teaches faith that saves always obeys God.
James explains faith without works(faith alone) is dead!
As dead as a corpse with no soul,
James 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

For anyone to claim we are saved by a faith with no works.
Is to claim we are saved by a dead faith according to James!

A dead faith can save no one.

True genuine trusting saving faith, has works of obedience according to James,
James 2:24.

James teaches the only kind of faith that justifies is a living working faith.
Faith alone ie faith without works is a dead faith that cannot justify according to James.

For our faith to save us. We must be justified by or obedient works, James 2:24.
Only God justifies us. No one can be saved before we are justified.

James 2:24
You see then that a man is justified by works(obedience to Gods commandments) and not by faith only(faith with no obedience to God).

Romans 8:30
Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

Conclusion: James and Paul taught God justifies us when our faith is not without obedience (dead faith)
But when we have a living, obedient faith( faith that obeys God ), James 2:24.

This is true, trusting, living faith before and after salvation.
No double talk.
There is only one acceptable faith that saves.
It is not faith alone(dead faith)
But a living working obedient faith, James 2:24 ;
Galatians 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.
1Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.
Matthew 12:50
For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and My sister and mother.

True saving faith is never without obedience(dead faith), James 2:19
True saving faith is a faith that obeys God, Galatians 5:6 ; James 2:24 ; Matthew 12:50

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Sadly, you are still confused.

I hesitate to interrupt so ENTRENCHED a discussion, but when the Reformers (15th Century-ish) coined the "battle cry" of Sola Fide (Faith Alone), it was just that ... a war cry or a chant ... intended to convey a more comprehensive and important (as in people were willing to DIE over this) point that JUSTIFICATION was accomplished by God through our Faith without the NECESSITY for the Church Sacraments to Justify us.

It is part of a "holy trinity" of Solas:
Sola Fide: (Faith Alone) without any Church Sacraments (baptism) is required for JUSTIFICATION.
Sola Gratia: (Grace Alone) without and merit in us that deserves SALVATION.
Solus Christus: (Christ Alone) was sufficient to forgive our sins and grant us eternal life, without the need for Priestly Confession or Last Rights (etc.).

What sets THESE Solas apart from the other two, is that these address the difference between a monergistic "God saves people" and a synergistic "People and God are partners in the salvation process".

• If human baptism is ESSENTIAL for God to save, then men and God cooperate in justification (no Sola Fide, no Sola Gratia, no Sola Cristus).
• If human baptism is NOT ESSENTIAL for God to save, then God saves and saved men respond with obedience (Sola Fide, Sola Gratia, Sola Cristus).
• If confession to a Priest is ESSENTIAL for God to forgive sin, then men and God cooperate in salvation (no Sola Fide, no Sola Gratia, no Sola Cristus).
• If confession to a Priest is NOT ESSENTIAL for God to forgive sin, then God saves and saved men respond with obedience (Sola Fide, Sola Gratia, Sola Cristus).
• If Church Sacraments are ESSENTIAL for eternal life, then men and God cooperate in glorification (no Sola Fide, no Sola Gratia, no Sola Cristus).
• If Church Sacraments are NOT ESSENTIAL for eternal life, then God glorifies men (Sola Fide, Sola Gratia, Sola Cristus).

We have lost the original meaning of the battle cry that men died for; now we argue over foolish parodies of the truth (like O.S.A.S. = reprobate Christianity).

We would do well to spend more time with the last two Solas: Sola Scriptura (Scripture Alone) = stop paying so much attention to what PEOPLE say and place more faith in what the BIBLE says; Soli Deo Gloria (to the glory of God alone) = the TRUTH always points to Christ and places the Glory at the feet of God ... we should strive to do likewise.

marks said:

OK, maybe it just clicked in. I don't think meritorious is the right word there, I'd say indicative.

Much love!

Click to expand...

Yes I can simplify the gospel unto salvation in a Biblical, scripturally accurate way.
First, James point in James 2:19 is faith with no works is an example of faith alone.
James is condemning faith and no works as dead, without worth.
Just read the very next verse in context.

James 2:19-20
You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe and tremble.
But do you want to know O foolish man, that faith without works(faith alone) is dead

I know you did not mention James 2:19.

Anyone can claim James supports the faith and no obedience to God salvation.
James is clear that only those who want to believe in faith only cannot see.
According to James you are foolish if you think faith without works is not dead.


Now, all I have to do is show you one example of someone who got saved by the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Then you will see that faith and obedience is what saves us.
Not faith without obedience.

Let's look at the conversion of Paul.

First Paul believed but was not forgiven of his sins nor did he receive Holy Spirit baptism when he first believed in Jesus.

Acts 9:4
Then he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?

5 And he said, Who are You, Lord? Then the Lord Jesus said, I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. It is hard for you to kick against the goads.

6 So he, trembling and astonished said, "Lord, what do you want me to do?"
Then the Lord said to him, Arise and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.

Now does that sound like Paul was saved the moment he believed?
Was Paul told by Jesus he must do something?

Verse 9
And he was three days without sight, and nethier ate nor drank.

Now, three days are going to pass since Paul has come to faith and in these 3 days Paul will have his sins washed away. Not when he had faith alone. God commands Ananias to go preach the gospel to him.

Verse 17
And Ananias went His way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, Brother Saul(Jews called each other brother) the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.

18 Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was baptized.

Now did the apostle Paul get Holy Spirit baptism the moment he believed as faith onlyist teach?

No, he got Holy Spirit baptized three days later after he believed in Christ!

When was Paul's sins forgiven?
The moment he believed only?

Or when he heard the gospel preached by Ananias and was baptized for the forgiveness of his sins? Mark 16:15-16 ; Acts 2:38 ; Acts 9:18.

Let's have Paul answer that question,
Paul tells when his sins were washed away by doing something.
That something he did is a work of God!

Acts 22:16
And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Faith and obedience to Jesus' gospel is what saved Paul.
Not when he had faith alone on the road to Damascus.

Paul worked the works of God to be saved, John 6:28-29.
He did not get his sins removed when he believed Acts 9:6
But when he believed and obeyed Jesus' commandments, Acts 9:18 ; Acts 22:16.

Paul did works of obedience.
Paul did not merit his salvation because of his obedient faith.

Titus said:

First, James point in James 2:19 is faith with no works is an example of faith alone.
James is condemning faith and no works as dead, without worth.
Just read the very next verse in context.

James 2:19-20
You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe and tremble.
But do you want to know O foolish man, that faith without works(faith alone) is dead

Click to expand...

You are talking about two different things, but as if they were the same.

Faith alone.

James teaches us that faith, if it doesn't have works, isn't a saving faith. So he is saying that saving faith isn't devoid of works.

Saving faith alone saves us. We cannot say it's saving faith if there are no subsequent works, just the same, saving faith alone saves us. Well, when we have a real faith, Jesus saves us.

You are taking James' comments on faith without works, or faith alone, as if it defined true and saving faith, and speaking of the two without distinction, yet they are distinct, hence James' mention that even devils believe.

Much love!