A Third Jewish Temple is Required

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Davy

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I've already shown you Hippolytus was NOT a Futurist! He was Historicist:

"The golden head of the image,” (Hippolytus) says, “is identical with the lioness, by which the Babylonians were represented ; the shoulders and the arms of silver are the same with the bear, by which the Persians and Medes are meant ; the belly and thighs of brass are the leopard, by which the Greeks who ruled from Alexander onwards are intended ; the legs of iron are the dreadful and terrible beast, by which the Romans who hold the empire now are meant ; the toes of clay and iron are the ten horns which are to be; the one other little horn springing up in their midst is the antichrist; the stone that smites the image and breaks it in pieces, and that filled the whole earth, is Christ, who comes from heaven and brings judgment on the world."
“Rejoice, blessed Daniel, thou hast not been in error ; all these things have come to pass” (p. 19). “Already the iron rules ; already it subdues and breaks all in pieces ; already it brings all the unwilling into subjection ; already we see these things ourselves. Now we glorify God, being instructed by thee.”
Hippolutus agreed with Irenaeus: "Latinos is the number 666, and it is a very probable (solution), this being the name of the last kingdom, for the LATINS are they who at present bear rule.
"Tell me, blessed John, apostle and disciple of the Lord, what didst thou see and hear concerning​
Babylon? Arise and speak, for it sent thee also into banishment.”​

Dave, you can pick your own opinions, but you can't pick your own facts. The ECFs including Hippolytus, saw Rome as the fourth beast and the ten toes/horns as the divisions of Rome among whom the Little Horn would rise.

How is that Phonyman777 even TRIES to apply a later seminary category movement like Historicism, to a 2nd century Church father (Hippolytus), when that Historicist movement did NOT YET EVEN EXIST IN the days of Hippolytus??

Which are we to heed, God's Truth in His Word, or seminary categories like Futurism, Preterism, or Historicism?

What I quoted from Hippolytus was his covering Bible Truth, NOT men's idiotic seminary categories. And that reveals just how far... those like Phonyman777 have strayed away from the simplicity of The Word of God.
 
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Phoneman777

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Brethren in Christ, don't pay attention to those like Phoneman777 who continually makes FALSE CLAIMS in attempts to attack one's credibility. Notice he doesn't offer ANY BIBLE SCRIPTURE against what I have shown from The Bible, simply because he knows he cannot... refute it.
Brethren, continue to observe Davy's refusal to answer the question. He knows God would NEVER refer to a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem as the "temple of God" because the sacrificed lambs offered therein would be a gigantic, national Jewish MIDDLE FINGER in the face of God - but he can't admit that because it undermines his entire position...

He also knows the NT repeatedly refers to the church as the "temple of God" and rightly so - because the church is "a building fitly framed together" which grows into God's temple...

He also knows that prophetic passages always incorporate symbolism, making "temple of God" symbolic (the church) and "man of sin" symbolic (the papacy) and the "he" who was restraining his rise symbolic (Pagan Rome)...

...but finding himself unable to deny the plausibility of the things written above, he resorts to ad hominem instead of answering the arguments.
 

Phoneman777

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Once again, Phoneman777 will NOT admit the Bible Scripture that I have pointed to in the Book of Daniel showing FIVE beasts, not 4...

1. "head of fine gold" -- Dan.2:32 (Babylon empire)
2. "his breast and his arms of silver" -- Dan.2:32 (Medo-Persia empire)
3. "his belly and his thighs of brass" -- Dan.2:32 (Alexander's Greece)
4. "His legs of iron" -- Dan.2:33 (Roman empire)
5. "his feet part of iron and part of clay" -- Dan.2:33 (all previous beast empires established TOGETHER... under a "one world government").

That is FIVE... pieces to that beast statue which Daniel was given by God to interpret for Nebuchadnezzar.
There's no need to consider anything Davy has written after this, which is why I erased it - because he is DEAD WRONG about a "fifth" empire.

Why?

Because Daniel plainly says the Ten Toes would be divided one from another, never referring to them as a "united kingdom" as the first four beasts were. Daniel said "they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men but they shall not cleave one to another just as iron does not mix with clay".

Yes, Greece was "divided" into four but all four were still part of the Macedonian Empire - unlike the Ten Toes - the Barbarian nations - which sacked Rome and carved it up into pieces, each taking a chunk for themselves. They then proceeded to war among themselves incessantly until finally they all got so sick of the fighting that they decided to appoint a spiritual - NOT SECULAR - leader to establish spiritual authority over them, which brought the fighting to an end.

So, don't fall for Davy's ridiculous "fifth empire" nonsense, which is a textbook example of the kind of hopelessly flawed hermeneutics that arise when trying to fit Jesuit ideas about a "future antichrist" into Bible prophecy ;)
 

Phoneman777

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It should be obvious that Phonyman777 refuses to even RECOGNIZE God's given prophecy through His servant David in Psalms 22 about Christ's crucifixion event!!! Even though Christ QUOTED the words of Psalms 22:1 upon His cross!!!

What does that show us about Phonyman777 and who he is following? Who does God's Word show that DENIES the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, which the crucifixion of Jesus Christ is exactly what the Psalms 22 Scripture is about?
Brethren, see how Davy continuously appeals to "event specific time prophecy" to justify inserting a "gap" into God's "numerically specific time prophecy" which are never found to have any "gaps" inserted?

See, "apples/oranges" hermeneutics is the only way to make Jesuit ideas fit because legitimate eschatological interpretation won't allow it.

The 70 Weeks lasted exactly 70 Weeks, just as the 120 years of Noah's preaching lasted 120 years, just as the 40 years desert wandering of Israel lasted 40 years, just as Israel's 70 years captivity lasted 70 years...are y'all starting to see a pattern here? The only "gaps" that exist aren't in any "numerically specific time prophecy" above or elsewhere - they exist only in the minds of Jesuit Futurists.
 

Phoneman777

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How is that Phonyman777 even TRIES to apply a later seminary category movement like Historicism, to a 2nd century Church father (Hippolytus), when that Historicist movement did NOT YET EVEN EXIST IN the days of Hippolytus??
Davy, it's not reasonable to expect the school of thought referred to as "Protestant Historicism" in the 16th century would be called "Protestant Historicism" in the early centuries - what matters is whether the same school of thought that existed in the 16th century is found taught in the early centuries - and the evidence provided by Hippolytus and company proves beyond the shadow of a doubt that it was, while your Jesuit Futurist nonsense is no where found taught anywhere prior to the Jesuits fabricating it, as well as Jesuit Preterism, to combat Protestant Historicism.
Which are to we to heed, God's Truth in His Word, or seminary categories like Futurism, Preterism, or Historicism?
Since Historicism and God's Truth are synonymous, better go with Historicism - the only eschatological school of thought that makes sense without the use of rubber bands, gaps, and blinders on the prophetic timeline
What I quoted from Hippolytus was his covering Bible Truth, NOT men's idiotic seminary categories. And that reveals just how far... those like Phonyman777 have strayed away from the simplicity of The Word of God.
Brethren, I showed Davy clearly from Hippolytus' own mouth that he believed and taught the same eschatological school of thought that came to be known later as "Protestant Historicism" centuries later, and anyone can refer to my post 117 to see this is exactly the case.
 
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Davy

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I showed the SCRIPTURE EVIDENCE about the FINAL beast kingdom on earth at the end when Jesus returns, and it involves the FIFTH PIECE OF THE BEAST STATUE, as written... in the Daniel 2 Chapter.

So why would Phonyman777 claim that Scripture is false? and that is what he is attacking. He thinks he is attacking me, but he is not, but is directly attacking the Daniel 2 Scripture...

Dan 2:34-35
34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

35 Then was the
iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
KJV


That's FIVE PIECES of the beast statue, ALL BROKEN TO PIECES TOGETHER! Just when have ALL five of those pieces representing beast kingdoms been TOGETHER at the SAME TIME?? Never in history, BUT... for the END of this world, just prior to Christ's future return, they ALL will be as ONE BEAST KINGDOM OVER ALL NATIONS AND PEOPLES.

It's about ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT by today's globalists who serve and worship Lucifer. They are preparing this world for Lucifer's coming first, and Jesus warned us about the false-Christ coming first.

Dan 2:41-45
41 And whereas thou sawest
the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.

42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.

43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay,
they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

Whoa!... what's that mingle idea there brethren in Christ??

Who is that "they" there? Do you realize that, "they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another", means an attempt to JOIN TWO DIFFERENT SEEDS TOGETHER?? If that were simply about the mixing of two different races then their seed would... cleave (Aramaic word means 'to stick' together.)

What did Lord Jesus warn us about the end; that it would be like the "days of Noe" (Noah)? What was going on in Noah's days per Genesis 6? The "sons of God" (angels) took WIVES of the daughters of Adam, and their offspring were the hybrid giants!



44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Wait just a minute... that is talking about the very end of this world when Christ comes and defeats ALL those "kingdoms", WHAT "kingdoms"? The very kingdoms that God revealed through His servant Daniel here in Daniel 2! Who all would that be? Well, what kingdom is represented by the beast piece of "gold", and then "silver", then "brass", then "iron", and finally by "part iron" mixed with "clay"?

It's about a ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT FOR THE END OF THIS WORLD, WHEN ALL... OF THOSE BEAST PIECES WILL BE MANIFEST OVER THE ENTIRE EARTH, TOGETHER, AS ONE FINAL BEAST KINGDOM! It's as simple as that, and THAT is what these Daniel 2 Scriptures are revealing!

45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.
KJV
 

Timtofly

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ANYONE WAITING FOR A FUTURE ANTICHRIST IS A JESUIT FUTURIST...ANYONE CLAIMING ANTICHRIST AROSE IN THE 1ST CENTURY IS A JESUIT PRETERIST.

I'm a PROTESTANT HISTORICIST and challenge any Jesuit Preterist or Jesuit Futurist to start at Daniel 2 with me and trace their steps to the exact point where they depart the Biblical prophetic timeline into satanic Jesuit lies - and you, like all other Jesuit sympathizers, refuse to step up to the challenge.
I did post a challenge, and you decided to stop the conversation:

Look, thanks, but I'd rather not discuss these issues with you, seeing that you're abandonment of what's plain and explicit can only lead to errors too extreme to even consider.

So it was you who decided not to defend your position. You are stuck in the past and have no future explanation to offer. Thus you falsely call me a Jesuit sympathizer, without even considering the points I made.

You have no interpretation of Revelation that is worth anything, and worse off than the Jesuits.
 

BlessedPeace

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They are building that third temple structure as we speak .

Figuratively,a third temple is something else.
 

Phoneman777

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I did post a challenge, and you decided to stop the conversation:
I said "start in Daniel 2" - would you like to do that now?
So it was you who decided not to defend your position. You are stuck in the past and have no future explanation to offer. Thus you falsely call me a Jesuit sympathizer, without even considering the points I made.

You have no interpretation of Revelation that is worth anything, and worse off than the Jesuits.
Wrong again. I'm more than happy to start in Daniel 2 and Babylon, and trace the kingdoms down to the point where you eschatological lightweights depart from the Biblical eschatological timeline and veer off into Jesuit lies.

Daniel 2:

Head of Gold = Babylon

Agree or disagree?
 

Davy

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They are building that third temple structure as we speak .

Figuratively,a third temple is something else.

No they haven't yet, IF you are referring to the Jew's 3rd stone temple in Jerusalem.

The Orthodox Jews in today's Jerusalem only have the materials ready to build it, along with the temple worship artifacts made. They even had some of those temple worship artifacts that have been made on display in Jerusalem.

The temple cornerstone has already been cut for decades now, and some of the Orthodox Jews already tried to enter the Temple Mount and put the cornerstone in place, but the Israeli police stopped them. (The U.N. controls Jerusalem's borders and the Temple Mount today, and have given the Temple Mount to the Arabs to govern.)

Passover animal sacrifices have already been done for years now by Orthodox Jews on a hill overlooking the Temple Mount.

So if you're Church system isn't teaching about these events that have been going on in Jerusalem for the past few decades, then your Church organization likely has been taken over by those in the U.N. that control the times for events in Jerusalem at the end of this world, like the future rebuilding of the Jew's 3rd temple, and the seven years covenant to be made by the Antichrist at the end, per the Book of Daniel.
 

Davy

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Figuratively,a third temple is something else.

The "temple of God" mentioned by Apostle Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2:4 that he said the "man of sin" will sit in, and exalt himself as GOD, and over all that is called GOD, or that is worshiped, is about a LITERAL STONE JEWISH TEMPLE IN JERUSALEM.

It is ignorance to interpret that "temple of God" as Christ's Spiritual Temple of The Spirit. That idea is a plant by false Jews.

The Orthodox Jews in today's Jerusalem have every intention of starting up their old covenant style worship again, which requires a Jewish temple and animal sacrifices. That has been a part of 'their' plan for the restoration of the nation of Israel in the holy land ever since the Romans in 70 A.D. destroyed Jerusalem and the 2nd temple.

The reason why the Orthodox unbelieving Jews have that plan to start up old covenant worship again, is because they do NOT recognize Jesus of Nazareth as The Messiah, The Christ. They are still waiting for the coming of Messiah. Thus they believe they are still ordained to do old covenant style worship by God. At least, that's what their Sanhedrin, formed up again many years ago, is telling them.

So those who refuse to recognize all that is way... behind in the prophetic times of Bible Scripture about the end of this world.
 

covenantee

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The "temple of God" mentioned by Apostle Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2:4 that he said the "man of sin" will sit in, and exalt himself as GOD, and over all that is called GOD, or that is worshiped, is about a LITERAL STONE JEWISH TEMPLE IN JERUSALEM.

It is ignorance to interpret that "temple of God" as Christ's Spiritual Temple of The Spirit. That idea is a plant by false Jews.

The Orthodox Jews in today's Jerusalem have every intention of starting up their old covenant style worship again, which requires a Jewish temple and animal sacrifices. That has been a part of 'their' plan for the restoration of the nation of Israel in the holy land ever since the Romans in 70 A.D. destroyed Jerusalem and the 2nd temple.

The reason why the Orthodox unbelieving Jews have that plan to start up old covenant worship again, is because they do NOT recognize Jesus of Nazareth as The Messiah, The Christ. They are still waiting for the coming of Messiah. Thus they believe they are still ordained to do old covenant style worship by God. At least, that's what their Sanhedrin, formed up again many years ago, is telling them.

So those who refuse to recognize all that is way... behind in the prophetic times of Bible Scripture about the end of this world.
For all deluded dispens.

I'm stocked up on popcorn. Next time will be quite a show.

Sozomen (ca. A.D.375-447)
"Ecclesiastical History"
Book V, Chapter XXII


Though the emperor [Julian the Apostate] hated and oppressed the Christians, he manifested benevolence and humanity towards the Jews. He wrote to the Jewish patriarchs and leaders, as well as to the people, requesting them to pray for him, and for the prosperity of the empire. In taking this step he was not actuated, I am convinced, by any respect for their religion; for he was aware that it is, so to speak, the mother of the Christian religion, and he knew that both religions rest upon the authority of the patriarchs and the prophets; but he thought to grieve the Christians by favoring the Jews, who are their most inveterate enemies. But perhaps he also calculated upon persuading the Jews to embrace paganism and sacrifices; for they were only acquainted with the mere letter of Scripture, and could not, like the Christians and a few of the wisest among the Hebrews, discern the hidden meaning.

Events proved that this was his real motive; for he sent for some of the chiefs of the race and exhorted them to return to the observance of the laws of Moses and the customs of their fathers. On their replying that because the temple in Jerusalem was overturned, it was neither lawful nor ancestral to do this in another place than the metropolis out of which they had been cast, he gave them public money, commanded them to rebuild the temple, and to practice the cult similar to that of their ancestors, by sacrificing after the ancient way. The Jews entered upon the undertaking, without reflecting that, according to the prediction of the holy prophets, it could not be accomplished. They sought for the most skillful artisans, collected materials, cleared the ground, and entered so earnestly upon the task, that even the women carried heaps of earth, and brought their necklaces and other female ornaments towards defraying the expense. The emperor, the other pagans, and all the Jews, regarded every other undertaking as secondary in importance to this. Although the pagans were not well-disposed towards the Jews, yet they assisted them in this enterprise, because they reckoned upon its ultimate success, and hoped by this means to falsify the prophecies of Christ. Besides this motive, the Jews themselves were impelled by the consideration that the time had arrived for rebuilding their temple. When they had removed the ruins of the former building, they dug up the ground and cleared away its foundation; it is said that on the following day when they were about to lay the first foundation, a great earthquake occurred, and by the violent agitation of the earth, stones were thrown up from the depths, by which those of the Jews who were engaged in the work were wounded, as likewise those who were merely looking on. The houses and public porticos, near the site of the temple, in which they had diverted themselves, were suddenly thrown down; many were caught thereby, some perished immediately, others were found half dead and mutilated of hands or legs, others were injured in other parts of the body. When God caused the earthquake to cease, the workmen who survived again returned to their task, partly because such was the edict of the emperor, and partly because they were themselves interested in the undertaking. Men often, in endeavoring to gratify their own passions, seek what is injurious to them, reject what would be truly advantageous, and are deluded-by the idea that nothing is really useful except what is agreeable to them. When once led astray by this error, they are no longer able to act in a manner conducive to their own interests, or to take warning by the calamities which are visited upon them.

The Jews, I believe, were just in this state; for, instead of regarding this unexpected earthquake as a manifest indication that God was opposed to the re-erection of their temple, they proceeded to recommence the work. But all parties relate, that they had scarcely returned to the undertaking, when fire burst suddenly from the foundations of the temple, and consumed several of the workmen.

This fact is fearlessly stated, and believed by all; the only discrepancy in the narrative is that some maintain that flame burst from the interior of the temple, as the workmen were striving to force an entrance, while others say that the fire proceeded directly from the earth. In whichever way the phenomenon might have occurred, it is equally wonderful. A more tangible and still more extraordinary prodigy ensued; suddenly the sign of the cross appeared spontaneously on the garments of the persons engaged in the undertaking. These crosses were disposed like stars, and appeared the work of art. Many were hence led to confess that Christ is God, and that the rebuilding of the temple was not pleasing to Him; others presented themselves in the church, were initiated, and besought Christ, with hymns and supplications, to pardon their transgression. If any one does not feel disposed to believe my narrative, let him go and be convinced by those who heard the facts I have related from the eyewitnesses of them, for they are still alive. Let him inquire, also, of the Jews and pagans who left the work in an incomplete state, or who, to speak more accurately, were able to commence it.
 
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covenantee

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The "temple of God" mentioned by Apostle Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2:4 that he said the "man of sin" will sit in, and exalt himself as GOD, and over all that is called GOD, or that is worshiped, is about a LITERAL STONE JEWISH TEMPLE IN JERUSALEM.

It is ignorance to interpret that "temple of God" as Christ's Spiritual Temple of The Spirit. That idea is a plant by false Jews.

The Orthodox Jews in today's Jerusalem have every intention of starting up their old covenant style worship again, which requires a Jewish temple and animal sacrifices. That has been a part of 'their' plan for the restoration of the nation of Israel in the holy land ever since the Romans in 70 A.D. destroyed Jerusalem and the 2nd temple.

The reason why the Orthodox unbelieving Jews have that plan to start up old covenant worship again, is because they do NOT recognize Jesus of Nazareth as The Messiah, The Christ. They are still waiting for the coming of Messiah. Thus they believe they are still ordained to do old covenant style worship by God. At least, that's what their Sanhedrin, formed up again many years ago, is telling them.

So those who refuse to recognize all that is way... behind in the prophetic times of Bible Scripture about the end of this world.
Paul doesn't agree with you that he was a false Jew. :laughing:

So much for your LITERAL STONE JEWISH TEMPLE IN JERUSALEM.

Paul's temples:

"naos" spiritual:

1 Corinthians 3:16
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Greek

1 Corinthians 3:17
If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Greek

1 Corinthians 6:19
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Greek

2 Corinthians 6:16
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Greek

Ephesians 2:21-22
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Greek
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

2 Thessalonians 2:4
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Greek

"eidóleion" physical:

1 Corinthians 8:10
For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Greek

"hieros/hieron" physical:

1 Corinthians 9:13
Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Greek
 

Davy

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For all deluded dispens.
I'm not a Dispensationalist. So go back to your SDA teachers and tell them they need to update that old hat.


I'm stocked up on popcorn. Next time will be quite a show.
That's probably what you do when you open up God's Word in reading also, eat popcorn like you're reading a movie script, not taking His Word seriously.

Sozomen (ca. A.D.375-447)
"Ecclesiastical History"
Book V, Chapter XXII

Sozomen was a Jewish lawyer in Byzantine and orginally from Gaza, converted to Christianity.

It figures you'd rather heed someone like 4th-5th century Sozomen instead of 2nd century Hippolytus who is described as being a disciple of Irenaeus, who was a disciple of Polycarp whom Irenaeus and Tertullian said Polycarp had been a disciple of Apostle John.
 

Davy

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Paul doesn't agree with you that he was a false Jew. :laughing:
I NEVER said that Apostle Paul was a false Jew, YOU LIAR.

You sound just like the crept in unawares into Christ's Church that Apostle Paul had to contend with in Galatians, i.e., the leftover Pharisee converts to Christ that were trying to force Gentiles to get flesh circumcised to be saved!

So much for your LITERAL STONE JEWISH TEMPLE IN JERUSALEM.
Not MY literal stone Jewish temple in Jerusalem for the END, but YOURS!

Otherwise, why would those like YOU be so angry at The Scripture, and me, for revealing it's about a standing Jewish stone temple in Jerusalem for the END being required to fulfill the "abomination of desolation" prophecy from the Book of Daniel that Jesus quoted for the END?

You can't just point a finger to any old thing and call that the "holy place" Jesus pointed to about the false-Messiah coming to place the "abomination of desolation" IDOL for the end of this world (Matthew 24:15).

Paul's temples:

"naos" spiritual:
....

ALL... of that has already been debunked, as that Greek word 'naos' is used ALSO for the idea of the LITERAL JEWISH STONE TEMPLE IN JERUSALEM'S HISTORY...


All below use Greek 'naos' (NT:3485), and refer to a LITERAL STONE TEMPLE:
Matt.23:16-35; Matt.27:5; Matt.27:51; Mark 15:38; Luke 1:9; Luke 1:21-22; Luke 23:45; John 2:20; Acts 7:48; Acts 17:24; 2 Cor.6:16; 2 Thess.2:4; Rev.11:1; Rev.11:2.
 

covenantee

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Sozomen was a Jewish lawyer in Byzantine and orginally from Gaza, converted to Christianity.
You think Sozomen was a Christian liar?
It figures you'd rather heed someone like 4th-5th century Sozomen instead of 2nd century Hippolytus
God destroyed the attempted temple rebuild in the 4th century. The 4th century was not the 2nd century. Were you aware of that?
 
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Timtofly

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I said "start in Daniel 2" - would you like to do that now?

Wrong again. I'm more than happy to start in Daniel 2 and Babylon, and trace the kingdoms down to the point where you eschatological lightweights depart from the Biblical eschatological timeline and veer off into Jesuit lies.

Daniel 2:

Head of Gold = Babylon

Agree or disagree?
Did I present too much in one post?

The 5 kingdoms in Daniel 2 are the five fallen heads of the dragon/sea beast/scarlet beast in Revelation.

Rome was the fourth kingdom and divided being the 2 legs of iron. Rome fell and was replaced by the ten toes.

The tens toes was the 5th Kingdom that ended at the Reformation. You can claim the ten toes were still part of the 4th kingdom all you want, but Rome was still divided after a certain point, and mixed in with what was the 5th kingdom, clay, as the toes were still part of the iron of the 4th kingdom, but Rome was not the 5th kingdom as the 5th kingdom was divided into 10 parts. The 6th kingdom has been in a state of mortal wound since the Reformation.

Daniel never covered the 6th kingdom. I don't know any who deny Babylon was the first kingdom. Nor that Medes and Persians were the second kingdom. Then Greece was the third kingdom that divided into 4 sections. No one denies Rome was the 4th Kingdom. The apostate church was not the 5th kingdom, even if people claim they made all the governmental decisions.

The ten horns in Revelation have nothing whatsoever to do with the ten toes or ten horns mentioned in Daniel.

"After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns."

These ten horns do not go past the ten toes historically. The ten horns is the 5th beast or kingdom, since Rome was the 4th beast kingdom. Rome was splintered and the part that lasted the longest was not even in Rome, but Constantinople, the eastern half of the empire. So the assumption is the 5th kingdom lasted from the 5th century until the Reformation. The Reformation is the end of all of Daniel's prophecy.

But Revelation picks up at the end of the 6th kingdom. All who drag Daniel into modern times are wrong, including the 2300 year interpretation. Daniel pointed out all would be over in 3500 years, but never said those beast kingdoms would be around for 2300 years nor 3500 years. If you subtract 500 from 2300, that would be 1800, but people got into trouble when they did that.

Historist tend to bury their heads in the proverbial sand of the Reformation.
 

covenantee

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You can't just point a finger to any old thing and call that the "holy place" Jesus pointed to about the false-Messiah coming to place the "abomination of desolation" IDOL for the end of this world (Matthew 24:15).
There's no "abomination of desolation" IDOL. The "abomination of desolation" was the Roman armies. Luke 21:20.

Unless you think that Luke was lying.
ALL... of that has already been debunked, as that Greek word 'naos' is used ALSO for the idea of the LITERAL JEWISH STONE TEMPLE IN JERUSALEM'S HISTORY...
Not by Paul. Notice I said "Paul's Temples". Were you aware of that?

Nah.
 
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Davy

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You think Sozomen was a Christian liar?
A Jewish lawyer from Gaza. What do lawyers do? And he was well studied in Greek philosophy too.

God destroyed the attempted temple rebuild in the 4th century. The 4th century was not the 2nd century. Were you aware of that?

So now you don't want to stay in Bible Scripture and instead want to play like a school kid and argue over history and commentaries and such? That shows again that you lack actual Bible understanding and study.
 

Davy

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There's no "abomination of desolation" IDOL. The "abomination of desolation" was the Roman armies. Luke 21:20.

:jest: That's hilarious!

Now you're even calling Jesus Christ a LIAR!

Matt 24:15
15 When ye therefore
shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
KJV

Dan 11:31
31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice,
and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
KJV

And by the way, according to the Jewish historian Josephus who lived circa 100 A.D., he said the Jewish temple in 70 A.D. BURNED DOWN before the Romans could get possession of it.

So NO idol abomination was setup in it by the Romans like the Daniel prophecy declares will happen, even by the previous event by Antiochus IV in 165 B.C. that did... place a LITERAL IDOL TO ZEUS in the 2nd Jewish temple back then!

And it's EASY... to know that Antiochus IV did not fulfill the "abomination of desolation" prophecy in 165 B.C., simply because about 200 years later... Jesus proclaimed the AoD for the end of this world in His Olivet discourse signs.


Unless you think that Luke was lying.

Not by Paul. Notice I said "Paul's Temples". Were you aware of that?

Nah.

I was wondering when you'd bring up the Luke 21 version of Christ's Olivet discourse. That's what you propagandists love to do with this, you claim the Luke 21 chapter, which does not mention the "abomination of desolation" event, while DENYING the Matt.24 and Mark 13 chapters which DO!

Your EYES have been closed, you cannot even READ the Scripture as written...

Matt 24:15-16
15 When ye therefore shall see
the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
KJV

Mark 13:14
14 But when ye shall see
the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
KJV

Luke 21:20-21
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
KJV


So WHERE is that "abomination of desolation" event mentioned in that above Luke 21 chapter? It is NOT there! What is... mentioned there instead??? Duh??

Jerusalem compassed with armies, and then the desolation is near. Then what timing does Jesus LINK with that?

Luke 21:22
22
For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
KJV

That desolation by those armies is NOT... the "abomination of desolation" event that happens 3.5 years BEFORE those armies SURROUND JERUSALEM! Have you not read the Revelation 16 events about the final 7th Vial about that day of vengeance??

Rev 16:15-17
15 Behold,
I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16
And He gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
KJV


Even with the Isaiah 61 Scripture which Jesus read at the start of His Ministry per Luke 4, He closed the Book before reading that part about the 'day of vengeance', simply because that day is about His future RETURN to fight that battle of Armageddon! those armies of Luke 21:20!!! How could you not know this?? O learned one that you try to claim?