What triggers the Great Tribulation ?

[Douggg]

In Matthew 24:15-21, Jesus spoke about the Great Tribulation. Jesus tied it's beginning to when the abomination of desolation is seen standing in the holy place. And Jesus also referred to the prophet Daniel who spoke about it. Which is in Daniel 12:11-12.

In Revelation 13:14, the false prophet has a statue image made of the slain, come back to life, beast-king.

So WHAT TRIGGERS THE GREAT TRIBULATION ?

It will be the statue image of the beast-king "set up" on the temple mount, the holy place, out in the open where it can readily be seen. And them in Judea instructed by Jesus are to flee to the mountains when they see it... for then shall be great tribulation as the world has never seen, nor will even see again.

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

 

[Jay Ross]

In Matthew 24:15-21, Jesus spoke about the Great Tribulation. Jesus tied it's beginning to when the abomination of desolation is seen standing in the holy place. And Jesus also referred to the prophet Daniel who spoke about it. Which is in Daniel 12:11-12.

In Revelation 13:14, the false prophet has a statue image made of the slain, come back to life, beast-king.

So WHAT TRIGGERS THE GREAT TRIBULATION ?

It will be the statue image of the beast-king "set up" on the temple mount, the holy place, out in the open where it can readily be seen. And them in Judea instructed by Jesus are to flee to the mountains when they see it... for then shall be great tribulation as the world has never seen, nor will even see again.

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Douggg, does not the Great Tribulation begin shortly after the Bottomless pit is unlocked that allows Satan, the Beast and the False Prophet to rise up out of the Bottomless pit to do their worst to God's Saint.

 

[Douggg]

Douggg, does not the Great Tribulation begin shortly after the Bottomless pit is unlocked that allows Satan, the Beast and the False Prophet to rise up out of the Bottomless pit to do their worst to God's Saint.

"the Bottomless pit is unlocked that allows Satan, the Beast and the False Prophet to rise up out of the Bottomless pit"

The sole thing that triggers the Great Tribulation is the abomination of desolation set up and standing in the holy place.

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )

Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

 

[Dave Watchman]

In Matthew 24:15-21, Jesus spoke about the Great Tribulation. Jesus tied it's beginning to when the abomination of desolation is seen standing in the holy place. And Jesus also referred to the prophet Daniel who spoke about it. Which is in Daniel 12:11-12.

In Revelation 13:14, the false prophet has a statue image made of the slain, come back to life, beast-king.

So WHAT TRIGGERS THE GREAT TRIBULATION ?

It will be the statue image of the beast-king "set up" on the temple mount, the holy place, out in the open where it can readily be seen. And them in Judea instructed by Jesus are to flee to the mountains when they see it... for then shall be great tribulation as the world has never seen, nor will even see again.

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

It's already been triggered. We're nearing the tail end of it now. We're already deep into the vials. The frog like demons are already sent out to gather the kings of the earth for that great battle. By the same things you mentioned in your note. It's just that the "holy place" is not on the "temple mount" anymore. God has redefined some of the items of the NT eschatology.

Me and a couple guys had figured it out on the other forum in the summer of 2015. It was one of the most exciting times I had ever spent on a forum thread. I was up and down and walking the floor. We knew we were into something big. I can't even read that forum anymore, the new owner took over and destroyed the software. Lol. The old owner, I think his name was Brent, had that forum tuned up very well.

I still check in with Worthy. Because they have a couple three guys that are good with the Hebrew text. Like John Brey, he is a genius. And also Unsealed Forums. It looks like most have gone from there, but there was a pastors wife from Florida who is also a genius. She also figured out the dual sets of 70 weeks and had the very hard to find Knesset materials.

I wouldn't worry about it though. I continue to believe that the time to post the empirical is past. Most Christians now are like the men walking on the road to Emmaus. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. They're walking right next to Jesus, but just don't realize how close they are to sitting at the table with Him.

Peaceful Sabbath.

 

[Marty fox]

In Matthew 24:15-21, Jesus spoke about the Great Tribulation. Jesus tied it's beginning to when the abomination of desolation is seen standing in the holy place. And Jesus also referred to the prophet Daniel who spoke about it. Which is in Daniel 12:11-12.

In Revelation 13:14, the false prophet has a statue image made of the slain, come back to life, beast-king.

So WHAT TRIGGERS THE GREAT TRIBULATION ?

It will be the statue image of the beast-king "set up" on the temple mount, the holy place, out in the open where it can readily be seen. And them in Judea instructed by Jesus are to flee to the mountains when they see it... for then shall be great tribulation as the world has never seen, nor will even see again.

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

The death ofStephen

Acts 8
On that day a great persecution broke out against the church in Jerusalem, and all except the apostles were scatteredthroughout Judea and Samaria. 2 Godly men buried Stephen and mourned deeply for him. 3 But Saul began to destroy the church. Going from house to house, he dragged off both men and women and put them in prison.

 

[Earburner]

In Matthew 24:15-21, Jesus spoke about the Great Tribulation. Jesus tied it's beginning to when the abomination of desolation is seen standing in the holy place. And Jesus also referred to the prophet Daniel who spoke about it. Which is in Daniel 12:11-12.

In Revelation 13:14, the false prophet has a statue image made of the slain, come back to life, beast-king.

So WHAT TRIGGERS THE GREAT TRIBULATION ?

It will be the statue image of the beast-king "set up" on the temple mount, the holy place, out in the open where it can readily be seen. And them in Judea instructed by Jesus are to flee to the mountains when they see it... for then shall be great tribulation as the world has never seen, nor will even see again.

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

The "MoB" triggers" the end of God's Grace on earth.
Soon after WW3 (Rev. 9:13-21), the MoB will be manifested and then implemented throughout the whole world.

It will literally separate the goats from the sheep, to the very last living person on earth, whereby everyone who has received the "MoB", will remain in their sealed fate of being unrepentant towards God, refusing to have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, during this present Age of God's GRACE TOWARDS ALL PEOPLE.

 

[FaithWillDo]

In Matthew 24:15-21, Jesus spoke about the Great Tribulation. Jesus tied it's beginning to when the abomination of desolation is seen standing in the holy place. And Jesus also referred to the prophet Daniel who spoke about it. Which is in Daniel 12:11-12.

In Revelation 13:14, the false prophet has a statue image made of the slain, come back to life, beast-king.

So WHAT TRIGGERS THE GREAT TRIBULATION ?

It will be the statue image of the beast-king "set up" on the temple mount, the holy place, out in the open where it can readily be seen. And them in Judea instructed by Jesus are to flee to the mountains when they see it... for then shall be great tribulation as the world has never seen, nor will even see again.

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Dear Douggg,
Matthew chapter 24 teaches the pathway to salvation. The events that Christ describes are spiritual events which happen within a believer.

When the ends of ages come upon an Elect believer, they will be converted.

1Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened to them as types, and have been written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.

As for your question, the time of great tribulation begins for a believer when the spirit of anti-Christ indwells them. The indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ is when the Abomination of Desolation occurs in God's temple (the believer). Later, if the believer is one of the Elect, Christ will "come again" to them and pour out the Latter Rain of the Spirit (Spirit of Truth). Now with the Spirit of Truth within them, the believer's spiritual blindness will be healed and they will "see" the Abomination of Desolation that had previously occurred within them. When they see this sign of the times, judgment will fall on them and remove the spirit of anti-Christ and the Great Harlot (worsened carnal nature). Both will then be cast into the Lake of Fire for destruction.

Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field (one flesh/believer); the one (spirit of anti-Christ/man of sin) shall be taken, and the other left (Holy Spirit/child of God). 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one (Bondwoman/Great Harlot) shall be taken, and the other left (Free woman/new spiritual nature of the Holy Spirit).

After this judgment is complete, the believer will be converted and the ends of the ages will have come upon them.

Joe

 

[Zao is life]

In Matthew 24:15-21, Jesus spoke about the Great Tribulation. Jesus tied it's beginning to when the abomination of desolation is seen standing in the holy place. And Jesus also referred to the prophet Daniel who spoke about it. Which is in Daniel 12:11-12.

In Revelation 13:14, the false prophet has a statue image made of the slain, come back to life, beast-king.

So WHAT TRIGGERS THE GREAT TRIBULATION ?

It will be the statue image of the beast-king "set up" on the temple mount, the holy place, out in the open where it can readily be seen. And them in Judea instructed by Jesus are to flee to the mountains when they see it... for then shall be great tribulation as the world has never seen, nor will even see again.

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

The Biblical authors did not read what we wrote, nor interpret what we said. The Bible does not use our own personal choices of terminology.

The Bible's authors chose the words they would use in reference to the physical temple structure in Jerusalem, as well as in reference to the holy place or actual Tabernacle of God where the Spirit of God is present.

Christians can - and many do - ignore the Biblical terminology used by the authors of the Bible when they interpret the Bible the way they choose to, turning what is written about the assembled body of Christ and the assemblies of Christ, into a reference to something else.

However, the Bible does not use our terminology. It uses its own. We can either align our interpretation with Biblical terminology, or continue to misconstrue what is written.

EVERY reference to Jesus entering the temple in the gospels uses the word hieron (without exception). Jesus was not a priest according to Mosaic law and was not allowed into the holy place (naos). This is a clear indication that naos refers only to the holy place | actual sanctuary of God.

The New Testament makes a distinction between a made-with-human hands building (G2411 hieron) on one hand, and the (G3485 naos) sanctuary of God on the other hand, where God's Spirit dwells, and the last time that the New Testament uses the word naós in reference to the temple in Jerusalem, is in the verses in the Gospels which tell about the tearing of the veil between that holy place / holy of holies, which occurred when Jesus died on the cross (Matthew 27:51; Mark 15:38; Luke 23:45.).

After the verses talking about the tearing of the veil in the temple, the first time the word naos is used again, is in Acts:

Acts 7:48a
But, the Most High does not dwell in temples (Greek: naos) made with hands.

Acts 17:24
The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of Heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples (Greek naos) made with hands.

-- the church & the temple in heaven --
(word used: naós)

1 Corinthians 3:16-17 & 1 Corinthians 6:19; 2 Corinthians 6:16; Ephesians 2:21:21; 2 Thessalonians 2:4; Revelation 3:12; Revelation 7:15; Revelation 11:1-2; Revelation 11:19; Revelation 14:15 & Revelation 14:17; Revelation 15:5-6 & Revelation 15:8; Revelation 16:1 & Revelation 16:17; Revelation 21:22.

* Only once in the New Testament is naós NOT referring to the sanctuary of God: Acts 19:24. It's referring to a shrine of Diana.

Jesus said, "For where two or three are gathered together in My name, there I am in their midst." (Matthew 18:20).

When Paul wrote his letters to the churches at Corinth, Ephesus and Thessaloniki, he used the word hierón in reference to the temple in Jerusalem (which was still standing) - 1 Corinthians 9:13.

However Paul consistently used the word naós when speaking about the bodies of individual Christians, and the congregations of Christians as the tabernacle (temple) of God (1 Corinthians 3:16-17 & 1 Corinthians 6:19; 2 Corinthians 6:16; and Ephesians 2:21-22).

So IF he was referring to a physical, man-made structure in Jerusalem in 2 Thessalonians 2:4 when talking about the man of sin seating himself up in the sanctuary of God, then there is no reason why Paul would not use the word hierón - but he did not - Paul used the word naós in 2 Thessalonians 2:4.

The following are the only places in the New Testament where a reference is made to "the holy city":- Matthew 4:5; Matthew 27:53; then in the Revelation, and the "cities" mentioned in the Revelation are:-

1. "Babylon the Great".
2. The city "spiritually called Sodom and Egypt".
3. The cities of the nations which fell when the 7th bowl of wrath was poured out.
4. "New Jerusalem".

There are no verses in the Revelation where "Babylon the Great", or the city "spiritually called Sodom and Egypt", or the cities of the nations which fell when the 7th bowl of wrath was poured out, are called "the holy city", but the Revelation calls New Jerusalem "the holy city" three times:

Revelation 21:2; Revelation 21:10; and Revelation 22:19.

Revelation 11:2 is talking about the holy city. The temple that Revelation 11:1 is referring to is the naós - it uses the word naós for "temple". The other city referred to in Revelation chapter 11, is referred to as a city that is "spiritually called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified." (Revelation 11:8).

YOU HAVE THE WRONG TEMPLE, and so you misconstrue what we are told about the man of sin / son of perdition appearing in the Tabernacle of God, and out of the lawlessness in it.

 

[Jack]

"What triggers the Great Tribulation?"

SIN!

 

[Zao is life]

In Matthew 24:15-21, Jesus spoke about the Great Tribulation. Jesus tied it's beginning to when the abomination of desolation is seen standing in the holy place. And Jesus also referred to the prophet Daniel who spoke about it. Which is in Daniel 12:11-12.

Not only do you have the wrong temple, but you have the wrong people suffering the great tribulation.

THE BIBLE ON:-

1. Wrath.
2. Judgment.
3. Universal Judgment.
4. Persecution.
5. Tribulation.
6. Great Tribulation.

The Biblical authors did not read what we wrote, nor interpret what we said. The Bible does not use our own personal choices of terminology.

The biblical authors used their own terminology when they recorded what Jesus said about tribulation and great tribulation, or when the apostles wrote about the tribulation that the saints would experience in the world, choosing the words they would use in reference to this tribulation of the saints - and this includes the reference to the greatest period of tribulation that would ever be.

They also chose their own terminology when they spoke about the judgment / wrath of God that will come upon the world.

Christian Bible-teachers can - and many do - use their own terminology and ignore the Biblical terminology used by the authors of the Bible when they interpret the Bible the way they choose to, turning what is written about tribulation and great tribulation in the scriptures into a reference to the judgment / wrath of God that is to come upon the world.

However, the Bible does not use our terminology. It uses its own. We can either align our interpretation with Biblical terminology, or continue to misconstrue what is written.

PERSECUTION, TRIBULATION, & GREAT TRIBULATION​

Persecution of Jesus: John 5:16

Persecution of Christians: Matthew 5:10-12; John 15:20; Acts 22:4; Acts 26:11; 1 Corinthians 4:12; 1 Corinthians 15:9; 2 Corinthians 4:9; Galatians 1:13 & 23; Galatians 4:29; Galatians 5:11

Persecution of "the woman" who gave birth to the Messiah: Revelation 12:13

TRIBULATION OF NON-CHRISTIANS​

There are only two verses in the New Testament referring to tribulation experienced by non-Christians:-

1. Of all who do evil: Romans 2:9.
2. Of the world as repayment for bringing tribulation upon the saints: 2 Thessalonians 1:6.

TRIBULATION OF APOSTLES OR CHRISTIANS:- ​

Matthew 13:21 (Parallel: Mark 4:17); Matthew 24:9 & 29 (Parallel Mark 13:24); John 16:33; Acts 11:19; Acts 14:22; Acts 20:23; Romans 5:3; Romans 8:35; Romans 12:12; 2 Corinthians 1:4, 6 & 8; 2 Corinthians 2:4; 2 Corinthians 4:8; 2 Corinthians 4:17; 2 Corinthians 6:4; 2 Corinthians 7:4-5; 2 Corinthians 8:2; Ephesians 3:13; Philippians 1:16; Philippians 4:14; Colossians 1:24; 1 Thessalonians 1:6; 1 Thessalonians 3:3-4 & 7; 2 Thessalonians 1:4, 6-7; 2 Timothy 1:8; 2 Timothy 3:11; 2 Timothy 4:5; Hebrews 10:32-33; 1 Peter 5:9; Revelation 1:9; Revelation 2:9-10, 22; Revelation 7:14.

GREAT TRIBULATION
[Greek: mégas thlîpsis]​

Mentioned only three times in the New Testament:-

First mention: The Olivet Discourse: Matthew 24:21-22 (Parallel: Mark 13:19-20) *

"for then shall be mégas thlîpsis (great tribulation), such as has not been since the beginning of the world to this time; no, nor ever shall be.
And unless those days should be shortened, no flesh would be saved. But for the elect's sake, those days shall be shortened." (Also see Matthew 24:9).

"And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.
And then the sign of the Son of man shall appear in the heavens. And then all the tribes of the earth shall mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of the heaven with power and great glory.
And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other." (Matthew 24:29-31).

Third mention: Revelation 7:13-14:

Revelation 7:9-10, 13-15
9 After these things I looked, and lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, out of all nations and kindreds and people and tongues, stood before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palms in their hands.
And they cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God sitting on the throne, and to the Lamb.

And one of the elders answered, saying to me, Who are these who are arrayed in white robes, and from where do they come?

And I said to him, Sir, you know. And he said to me, These are the ones who came out of great tribulation [mégas thlîpsis] and have washed their robes, and have whitened them in the blood of the Lamb.

Therefore they are before the throne of God, and they serve Him day and night in His temple. And He sitting on the throne will dwell among them.

They will not hunger any more, nor thirst any more, nor will the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will feed them and will lead them to the fountains of living waters. And God will wipe away all tears from their eyes.

Second mention: Revelation 2:21: "Behold, I will cast her (Jezebel) into a bed, and them (those Christians) that commit adultery with her into mégas thlîpsis (great tribulation), except they repent of their deeds."

* Luke 21:23 uses the words great distress and wrath to describe what was to come upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem (not the word tribulation).

The Biblical authors only used the Greek words translating as wrath whenever talking about God's judgment / wrath that is to come upon the world. And when they spoke about tribulation and great tribulation, they were talking about what is to come upon the saints at the hand of an unbelieving world and in the last days, at the hand of the beast.

 

[Douggg]

Not only do you have the wrong temple, but you have the wrong people suffering the great tribulation.

THE BIBLE ON:-

1. Wrath.
2. Judgment.
3. Universal Judgment.
4. Persecution.
5. Tribulation.
6. Great Tribulation.

The Biblical authors did not read what we wrote, nor interpret what we said. The Bible does not use our own personal choices of terminology.

The biblical authors used their own terminology when they recorded what Jesus said about tribulation and great tribulation, or when the apostles wrote about the tribulation that the saints would experience in the world, choosing the words they would use in reference to this tribulation of the saints - and this includes the reference to the greatest period of tribulation that would ever be.

They also chose their own terminology when they spoke about the judgment / wrath of God that will come upon the world.

Christian Bible-teachers can - and many do - use their own terminology and ignore the Biblical terminology used by the authors of the Bible when they interpret the Bible the way they choose to, turning what is written about tribulation and great tribulation in the scriptures into a reference to the judgment / wrath of God that is to come upon the world.

However, the Bible does not use our terminology. It uses its own. We can either align our interpretation with Biblical terminology, or continue to misconstrue what is written.

PERSECUTION, TRIBULATION, & GREAT TRIBULATION​

Persecution of Jesus: John 5:16

Persecution of Christians: Matthew 5:10-12; John 15:20; Acts 22:4; Acts 26:11; 1 Corinthians 4:12; 1 Corinthians 15:9; 2 Corinthians 4:9; Galatians 1:13 & 23; Galatians 4:29; Galatians 5:11

Persecution of "the woman" who gave birth to the Messiah: Revelation 12:13

TRIBULATION OF NON-CHRISTIANS​

There are only two verses in the New Testament referring to tribulation experienced by non-Christians:-

1. Of all who do evil: Romans 2:9.
2. Of the world as repayment for bringing tribulation upon the saints: 2 Thessalonians 1:6.

TRIBULATION OF APOSTLES OR CHRISTIANS:- ​

Matthew 13:21 (Parallel: Mark 4:17); Matthew 24:9 & 29 (Parallel Mark 13:24); John 16:33; Acts 11:19; Acts 14:22; Acts 20:23; Romans 5:3; Romans 8:35; Romans 12:12; 2 Corinthians 1:4, 6 & 8; 2 Corinthians 2:4; 2 Corinthians 4:8; 2 Corinthians 4:17; 2 Corinthians 6:4; 2 Corinthians 7:4-5; 2 Corinthians 8:2; Ephesians 3:13; Philippians 1:16; Philippians 4:14; Colossians 1:24; 1 Thessalonians 1:6; 1 Thessalonians 3:3-4 & 7; 2 Thessalonians 1:4, 6-7; 2 Timothy 1:8; 2 Timothy 3:11; 2 Timothy 4:5; Hebrews 10:32-33; 1 Peter 5:9; Revelation 1:9; Revelation 2:9-10, 22; Revelation 7:14.

GREAT TRIBULATION
[Greek: mégas thlîpsis]​

Mentioned only three times in the New Testament:-

First mention: The Olivet Discourse: Matthew 24:21-22 (Parallel: Mark 13:19-20) *

"for then shall be mégas thlîpsis (great tribulation), such as has not been since the beginning of the world to this time; no, nor ever shall be.
And unless those days should be shortened, no flesh would be saved. But for the elect's sake, those days shall be shortened." (Also see Matthew 24:9).

"And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.
And then the sign of the Son of man shall appear in the heavens. And then all the tribes of the earth shall mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of the heaven with power and great glory.
And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other." (Matthew 24:29-31).

Third mention: Revelation 7:13-14:

Revelation 7:9-10, 13-15
9 After these things I looked, and lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, out of all nations and kindreds and people and tongues, stood before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palms in their hands.
And they cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God sitting on the throne, and to the Lamb.

And one of the elders answered, saying to me, Who are these who are arrayed in white robes, and from where do they come?

And I said to him, Sir, you know. And he said to me, These are the ones who came out of great tribulation [mégas thlîpsis] and have washed their robes, and have whitened them in the blood of the Lamb.

Therefore they are before the throne of God, and they serve Him day and night in His temple. And He sitting on the throne will dwell among them.

They will not hunger any more, nor thirst any more, nor will the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will feed them and will lead them to the fountains of living waters. And God will wipe away all tears from their eyes.

Second mention: Revelation 2:21: "Behold, I will cast her (Jezebel) into a bed, and them (those Christians) that commit adultery with her into mégas thlîpsis (great tribulation), except they repent of their deeds."

* Luke 21:23 uses the words great distress and wrath to describe what was to come upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem (not the word tribulation).

The Biblical authors only used the Greek words translating as wrath whenever talking about God's judgment / wrath that is to come upon the world. And when they spoke about tribulation and great tribulation, they were talking about what is to come upon the saints at the hand of an unbelieving world and in the last days, at the hand of the beast.

For them in Judaea, the action Jesus said to take when the abomination of desolation is standing in a holy place (the temple mount) is to flee to the mountains. That is not the action given for when tribulation in general comes to Christians. The great tribulation will be a unique unmatched event in the history of mankind.

Jesus said...
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand : )
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Then Jesus said....
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

 

[Zao is life]

For them in Judaea, the action Jesus said to take when the abomination of desolation is standing in a holy place (the temple mount) is to flee to the mountains. That is not the action given for when tribulation in general comes to Christians. The great tribulation will be a unique unmatched event in the history of mankind.

Jesus said...
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand : )
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Then Jesus said....
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

There is only one holy place. Daniel the prophet prophesied about the holy place that was defiled by Antiochus IV Ephiphanes, which was cleansed afterward because neither city nor temple were destroyed, unlike the city and temple in the days of the Romans legions circa 200 years later.

That one holy place ceased being the holy place when the veil in it was torn in two.

There still is only one holy place. And it's not a 'made-with-human-hands' temple, and never will be.

 

[Douggg]

There is only one holy place. Daniel the prophet prophesied about the holy place that was defiled by Antiochus IV Ephiphanes, which was cleansed afterward because neither city nor temple were destroyed, unlike the city and temple in the days of the Romans legions circa 200 years later.

That one holy place ceased being the holy place when the veil in it was torn in two.

There still is only one holy place. And it's not a 'made-with-human-hands' temple, and never will be.

The holy place where the abomination of desolation will be "set up", Daniel 12:11-12, will be the temple mount. That is where the beast, the false prophet, and Satan (concealed within the abomination of desolation statue image) will be when Jesus returns.

 

[Zao is life]

The holy place where the abomination of desolation will be "set up", Daniel 12:11-12, will be the temple mount. That is where the beast, the false prophet, and Satan (concealed within the abomination of desolation statue image) will be when Jesus returns.




View attachment 44824

The holy place where the abomination of desolation will be was "set up" by Antiochus IV Epiphanes, Daniel 12:11-12, is the type or forerunner of the New Testament Tabernacle where the abomination of desolation will be set up by the Antichrist, whose Biblical type is Antiochus IV Epiphanes who set up the abomination of desolation in the Old Testament Temple.

The coming war that will take place in the above valley will not be the same place where the man of sin / son of perdition has seated himself up.

 

[Douggg]

The holy place where the abomination of desolation will be was "set up" by Antiochus IV Epiphanes, Daniel 12:11-12, is the type or forerunner of the New Testament Tabernacle where the abomination of desolation will be set up by the Antichrist, whose Biblical type is Antiochus IV Epiphanes who set up the abomination of desolation in the Old Testament Temple.

Antiochus set up a statue image of Zeus in the temple - which is a fore shadowing of the time of the end abomination of desolation - except that the statue image that Antiochus set up did not have life to it, nor spoke.

The false prophet, not the beast-king (the former Antichrist), is the one who will have that statue image of the beast-king placed on the temple mount.

 

[Zao is life]

Antiochus set up a statue image of Zeus in the temple - which is a fore shadowing of the time of the end abomination of desolation - except that the statue image that Antiochus set up did not have life to it, nor spoke.

The false prophet, not the beast-king (the former Antichrist), is the one who will have that statue image of the beast-king placed on the temple mount.

The context of the passage in 2 Thessalonians 2 is apostasy in the church, not "of the Jews", and lawlessness in the church, not the lawlessness "of the Jews". The man of sin will come out of the midst of the lawlessness in the church - the Tabernacle of God on earth.

For the mystery of lawlessness is already working, only he is now holding back until it comes out of the midst. (Modern King James Version)

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except the apostasy comes first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
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For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work: only he who now restrains will restrain, until he come into being [gínomai] - out of the midst [ek mes'-os] (of the lawlessness) (translated into most English versions as "taken out of the way").

For the mystery of lawlessness is already working, only he is now holding back until it comes out of the midst. (Modern King James Version)

And then shall that lawless (one) [ánomos] be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming.

γίνομαι gínomai, ghin'-om-ahee
a prolongation and middle voice form of a primary verb;
to cause to be ("gen"-erate), i.e. (reflexively) to become (come into being), used with great latitude (literal, figurative, intensive, etc.):--arise, be assembled, be(-come, -fall, -have self), be brought (to pass), (be) come (to pass),

μέσος mésos, mes'-os
middle (as an adjective or (neuter) noun):--among, X before them, between, + forth, mid(-day, -night), midst, way.

ALL Christians who drop this onto the Jews and into a temple built by them in Jerusalem ignore THE CONTEXT of 2 Thessalonians 2 as well as the fact that Paul calls the temple that the man of sin will set himself up in, the naos - which not since the tearing of the veil has referred to any temple in Jerusalem, because that temple was no longer the holy place following the death and resurrection of Christ.
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Paul was writing about the apostasy and lawlessness that will take place in the church soon before the return of Christ giving rise to the man of sin / son of perdition in the Sanctuary of God, which he used the word naos to identify - the word he always used elsewhere to identify the church, rather than the word hieron - the word he used elsewhere to identify the temple in Jerusalem.

What you said above about the image of the beast is produced through sheer guess-work and conjecture. I really get amused and saddened all at the same time at the way so many Christians have guessed what the image of the beast is, believed their own guesses, and argue in favor of their own guesses against the contradictory guesses of others.​

Stick to 2 Thessalonians 2 and what Paul was saying in that passage. He was saying nothing about the Jews, Jewish apostasy, Jewish lawlessness, or a Jewish temple in Jerusalem.

 

[Stash]

So what is going to kick off the Great tribulation?
A tribulation that has never been seen before, or will ever be seen again

I would not read over those words

The great tribulation will be when the antichrist gets here

That is the tribulation of the antichrist, or the wrath as many expect

This is a great deception and something we’ve never seen before which would be the nice devil

Holy cow a nice devil that will promise you everything you want after he’s taken everything away from you

Since this is not happen ever in the history of the world, I kind of laugh when people point to 70AD

So what will kick off the great tribulation let’s get back to that question

The Bible says the deadly wound

 

[Douggg]

The context of the passage in 2 Thessalonians 2 is apostasy in the church, not "of the Jews", and lawlessness in the church, not the lawlessness "of the Jews". The man of sin will come out of the midst of the lawlessness in the church - the Tabernacle of God on earth.

I agree that the falling away in 2Thessalonians2:3 is about Christians falling away - falling away from believing that Jesus is the messiah. That will happen during the first part of the 7 years, when the Jews will be thinking the Antichrist is their long awaited messiah - dragging many Christians into the misperception.

But that belief will come to a crashing halt when the Antichrist in 2Thesslaonians2:4 commits the transgression of desolation act of going into the temple, sitting, claiming to have achieved God-hood - revealing himself as the man of sin, and not the messiah after all.

 

[Stash]

Our church teaches that the image of the beast is the Internet and your TV sets

The image will be able to speak

Since I look at everything as circumstantial evidence, it tends to make me believe this is accurate

So now Satan can get his message out to the whole world since he’s claiming he is God the whole world will be watching

HIS IMAGE

The two witnesses and the elect will have something to say about all this

 

[Zao is life]

So what will kick off the great tribulation let’s get back to that question

No one will ever be able to answer that question until he knows what "the great tribulation" IS, and I can guarantee you on the authority of Jesus the Messiah who used the expression repeatedly in this regard, that only he who has ears to hear will hear what the great tribulation IS.

Half of the Christian population of the world do not even know what the great tribulation is - but because of decades of false teaching in the churches, they all think they do.

Then [ Greek tote: At the time of (the end) ] they will deliver you up to tribulation (Greek: thlipsis) and will kill you. And you will be hated of all nations for My name's sake.

And because lawlessness shall abound, the love of many will become cold.

Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place (whoever reads, let him understand), then let those in Judea flee into the mountains.

For then shall be great tribulation (megas thlipsis), such as has not been since the beginning of the world to this time; no, nor ever shall be - and unless those days should be shortened, no flesh would be saved. But for the elect's sake, those days shall be shortened.

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"Abomination of Desolation" is a phrase from the Book of Daniel describing the pagan sacrifices with which the 2nd century BC Greek king Antiochus IV Epiphanes replaced the twice-daily offering in the Jewish temple, or alternatively the altar on which such offerings were made." (Abomination of desolation - Wikipedia)

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And immediately after the tribulation (thlipsis) of those days, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken, and then the sign of the Son of man shall appear in the heavens. And then all the tribes of the earth shall mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of the heaven with power and great glory. And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. -- excerpt from Matthew 24:9-31

The man of sin / son of perdition seated in the church (as head of the church, i.e of the temple of God, making himself God) = the abomination of desolation in the holy place.

It's type being the abomination placed in the temple by Antiochus IV Epiphanes, and the man of sin's type being Antiochus IV Epiphanes
- as prophesied by Daniel.

Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place (whoever reads, let him understand), then let those in Judea flee into the mountains.

For then shall be great tribulation (megas thlipsis), such as has not been since the beginning of the world to this time; no, nor ever shall be - and unless those days should be shortened, no flesh would be saved. But for the elect's sake, those days shall be shortened.

It does not mean the temple of 2 Thess.2:4 is "in Jerusalem", but it does tell us that the saints in Judea will be at the epicenter of what is coming.

Christian Bible-teachers can - and many do - use their own terminology, choosing to ignore the Biblical terminology used by the authors of the Bible when Bible-teachers and saints interpret the Bible the way they choose to,

turning what is written about tribulation and great tribulation in the scriptures into a reference to the judgment / wrath of God that is to come upon the world.

However, the Bible does not use our terminology. It uses its own. We can either align our interpretation with Biblical terminology, or continue to misconstrue what is written.

PERSECUTION, TRIBULATION, & GREAT TRIBULATION​

Persecution of Jesus: John 5:16

Persecution of Christians: Matthew 5:10-12; John 15:20; Acts 22:4; Acts 26:11; 1 Corinthians 4:12; 1 Corinthians 15:9; 2 Corinthians 4:9; Galatians 1:13 & 23; Galatians 4:29; Galatians 5:11

Persecution of "the woman" who gave birth to the Messiah: Revelation 12:13

TRIBULATION OF APOSTLES OR CHRISTIANS:- ​

Matthew 13:21 (Parallel: Mark 4:17); Matthew 24:9 & 29 (Parallel Mark 13:24); John 16:33; Acts 11:19; Acts 14:22; Acts 20:23; Romans 5:3; Romans 8:35; Romans 12:12; 2 Corinthians 1:4, 6 & 8; 2 Corinthians 2:4; 2 Corinthians 4:8; 2 Corinthians 4:17; 2 Corinthians 6:4; 2 Corinthians 7:4-5; 2 Corinthians 8:2; Ephesians 3:13; Philippians 1:16; Philippians 4:14; Colossians 1:24; 1 Thessalonians 1:6; 1 Thessalonians 3:3-4 & 7; 2 Thessalonians 1:4, 6-7; 2 Timothy 1:8; 2 Timothy 3:11; 2 Timothy 4:5; Hebrews 10:32-33; 1 Peter 5:9; Revelation 1:9; Revelation 2:9-10, 22; Revelation 7:14.

GREAT TRIBULATION
[Greek: mégas thlîpsis]​

Mentioned only three times in the New Testament:-

First mention: The Olivet Discourse: Matthew 24:21-22 (Parallel: Mark 13:19-20) *

* Luke 21:23 uses the words great distress and wrath to describe what was to come upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem (not the word tribulation).

Second mention: Revelation 2:21: "Behold, I will cast her (Jezebel) into a bed, and them (those Christians) that commit adultery with her into mégas thlîpsis (great tribulation), except they repent of their deeds."

Third mention: Revelation 7:13-14 - the saints who had come out from great tribulation seen in heaven.

TRIBULATION OF NON-CHRISTIANS​

There are only two verses in the New Testament referring to tribulation experienced by non-Christians:-

1. Of all who do evil: Romans 2:9.
2. Of the world as repayment for bringing tribulation upon the saints: 2 Thessalonians 1:6.