A Question for Jehovah's Witnesses

[The Learner]

The NT states that the Lord Jesus is the Creator of all things. For instance, the inspired author of Hebrews writes:

“But about the Son he says… ‘In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment. You will roll them up like a robe; like a garment they will be changed. But you remain the same, and your years will never end.’” Hebrews 1:8a, 10-12.

The author has the Father addressing the Son as the actual Creator of the cosmos. The inspired author applies to the Son an OT passage which refers to Yahweh’s work in creation:

“‘O my God,’ I say, ‘take me not hence in the midst of my days, thou whose years endure throughout all generations!’ Of old thou didst lay the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of thy hands. They will perish, but thou dost endure; they will all wear out like a garment. Thou changest them like raiment, and they pass away; but thou art the same, and thy years have no end.” Psalm 102:24-27 RSV.

Amazingly, the OT elsewhere states that Yahweh ALONE stretched out the heavens:

“He speaks to the sun and it does not shine; he seals off the light of the stars. He ALONE stretches out the heavens and treads on the waves of the sea.” Job 9:7-8 NIV.

For the author of Hebrews to write that the Son personally laid the foundations of the earth and that the heavens are the work of his hands means that the author truly believed that the Son was Yahweh God (yet not the Father), the very eternal Creator himself! Note for instance the following syllogism:

1. Yahweh God created the heavens with his own hands and he alone stretched them out.
2. The Son created the heavens with his own hands.
3. Therefore, the Son is Yahweh God.

Jehovah's Witness apologist Greg Stafford takes issue with this conclusion. In his book, Stafford tries to address the inspired writer’s application of Psalm 102:25-27 to the Son:

“… It will be shown that in 1 Corinthians 8:6 the apostle Paul makes a careful distinction between the ‘one God’ (the Father) as the one ‘out of [… ex (hereafter transliterated as ek)] whom all things are,’ and Jesus Christ as the one ‘through [di, a contraction of dia] whom’ all things came into being…

“Clearly, then, in context Hebrews 1:10-12 could not be teaching that Jesus is the Creator, for here, in the opening words to the Hebrews, it is clearly stated that God made all things ‘through’ His Son. Since Jesus’ role in creation has already been discussed (Heb. 1:3), it is not likely that in verses 10-12 the author would return to the same point he has explained earlier. It could be that these verses from Psalm 102 are appropriately applied to the Son of God in view of his being the preexistent Wisdom spoken of in Proverbs 8. There he is described as a ‘master worker’ alongside his Creator, Jehovah. (Pr 8:22-31) B. W. Bacon acknowledges, ‘The passage could be made to prove the doctrine that the Messiah is none other than the preexistent Wisdom of Prov 8, 22-31, “through whom” according to our author [the author of Hebrews], v.2, God “made the worlds.”’

“It would certainly be appropriate to refer to the heavens and the earth as ‘the work of Christ’s hands’ in a secondary sense in view of his being mediator of the creative acts of Jehovah God. Indeed, as the ‘master craftsman’ Jesus was very much involved in Jehovah’s works. (Pr 8:30, Jerusalem Bible) Still, there seems to be another reason why Paul applies verses 25-27 of the 102nd Psalm to God’s beloved Son.” (Stafford, pp. 171-174; emphasis added).

 

[The Learner]

Jesus is not the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is another name for the Father. The Father is the only true God (John 17:3), God is holy (1 Peter 1:16), and God is Spirit (John 4:24). Thus the father is holy Spirit. Same name for the same person, not an additional person.

Jesus is a human who, post resurrection, said he is not a spirit in Luke 24:39. Additionally, in Matthew 12:32 Jesus said that those who speak a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but not those who speak a word against the Spirit. Therefore, speaking a word against Jesus is not equal to speaking a word against the Spirit because they are not the same person.

Matthew 28:19
So go and make followers of all people in the world. Baptize them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Luke 10:21

Jesus Prays to the Father​

Then the Holy Spirit made Jesus feel very happy.

Luke 11:13
Even you who are bad know how to give good things to your children. So surely your heavenly Father knows how to give the Holy Spirit to the people who ask him.”

John 14:26
But the Helper will teach you everything and cause you to remember all that I told you. This Helper is the Holy Spirit that the Father will send in my name.

ME: a person is sent, not a force

Acts 2:33
Jesus was lifted up to heaven. Now he is with God, at God’s right side. The Father has given the Holy Spirit to him, as he promised. So Jesus has now poured out that Spirit. This is what you see and hear.

 

[The Learner]

VIII. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit Are Distinct Persons A. Matt. 28:19 1. "the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit": use of definite article before each personal noun indicates distinct persons unless explicitly stated otherwise; compare Rev. 1:17; 2:8, 26 2. The views that "Father" and "Son" are distinct persons but not the Holy Spirit, or that the Holy Spirit is not a person at all, or that all three are different offices or roles of one person, are impossible in view of the grammar (together with the fact that in Scripture a "spirit" is a person unless context shows otherwise). 3. Does s singular "name" prove that the three are one person? No; cf. Gen. 5:2; 11:14; 48:6; and esp. 48:16

4. "Name" need not be personal name, may be title: Isa. 9:6; Matt. 1:23. If a single personal name is sought, the name shared by all three persons is "Yahweh" or "Jehovah."

 

[The Learner]

F. Jesus is not the Holy Spirit 1. The Holy Spirit is "another Comforter": John 14:16; compare 1 John 2:1. 2. Jesus sent the Holy Spirit: John 15:26; 16:7. 3. The Holy Spirit exhibits humility in relation to, and seeks to glorify, Jesus (John 16:13-14). 4. The Son and the Holy Spirit are distinguished as two persons in Matt. 28:19. 5. The Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus: Luke 3:22. 6. Is Jesus the Holy Spirit? a. 2 Cor. 3:17: the Spirit is here called "Lord" in the sense of being Yahweh or God, not Jesus (cf. v. 16, citing Ex. 34:34; cf. v. 17 in the Revised English Bible); note Acts 28:25-27, cf. Isa. 6:8-10.
b. 1 Cor. 15:45: Jesus is "a life-giving Spirit," not in the sense that He is the Holy Spirit whom He sent at Pentecost, but in the sense that He is the glorified God-man; and as God He is Spirit by nature. All three persons of the Trinity are Spirit, though there are not three divine Spirits; and only one person is designated "the Holy Spirit." c. Rom. 8:27, 34: the fact that two persons intercede for us is consistent with the fact that we have two Advocates (John 14:16; Rom. 8:26; 1 John 2:1). d. John 14:18: Jesus here refers to His appearances to the disciples after the resurrection (compare 14:19), not to the coming of the Spirit. e. Jesus and the Holy Spirit are both involved in various activities: raising Jesus (John 2:19-19-22); Rom. 8:9-11), raising the dead (John 5:21; 6:39-40, 44, 54, Rom. 8:9-11), dwelling in the believer (John 14:16; 2 Cor. 13:5; Col. 1:27), interceding for the believer (Rom. 8:26; Heb. 7:25), sanctifying believers (Eph. 5:26; 1 Pet. 1:2), etc. These work prove that the two persons are both God, but not that Jesus is the Holy Spirit.

 

[The Learner]

G. The Father is not the Holy Spirit 1. The Father sent the Holy Spirit: John 14:15; 15:26. 2. The Holy Spirit intercedes with the Father for us: Rom. 8:26-27. 3. The Father and the Holy Spirit are distinguished as two persons in Matt. 28:19. 4. Is the Father the Holy Spirit? a. Matt. 1:18; Luke 1:35: It is argued that the Holy Spirit is the Father of the incarnate Son of God; this argument ignores the fact that the "conception" is not a product of physical union between a man and a woman! b. The Father and the Holy Spirit are both said to be active in various activities; the resurrection of Jesus (Gal. 1:1; Rom. 8:11), comforting Christians (2 Cor. 1:3-4; John 14:26), sanctifying Christians (Jude 1; 1 Pet. 1:2), etc. The most these facts prove is that the
two work together; they do not prove the two are
one person.

 

[The Learner]

Romans 8:26-27

Easy-to-Read Version

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26 Also, the Spirit helps us. We are very weak, but the Spirit helps us with our weakness. We don’t know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit himself speaks to God for us. He begs God for us, speaking to him with feelings too deep for words. 27 God already knows our deepest thoughts. And he understands what the Spirit is saying, because the Spirit speaks for his people in the way that agrees with what God wants.

AMPC
So too the [Holy] Spirit comes to our aid and bears us up in our weakness; for we do not know what prayer to offer nor how to offer it worthily as we ought, but the Spirit Himself goes to meet our supplication and pleads in our behalf with unspeakable yearnings and groanings too deep for utterance.
BRG
Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
CSB
In the same way the Spirit also helps us in our weakness, because we do not know what to pray for as we should, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with inexpressible groanings.
CEB
In the same way, the Spirit comes to help our weakness. We don’t know what we should pray, but the Spirit himself pleads our case with unexpressed groans.
CJB
Similarly, the Spirit helps us in our weakness; for we don’t know how to pray the way we should. But the Spirit himself pleads on our behalf with groanings too deep for words;
CEV
In certain ways we are weak, but the Spirit is here to help us. For example, when we don't know what to pray for, the Spirit prays for us in ways that cannot be put into words.

Acts 13:2

Easy-to-Read Version

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2 These men were all serving the Lord and fasting when the Holy Spirit said to them, “Appoint Barnabas and Saul to do a special work for me. They are the ones I have chosen to do it.”

Proof the Holy Spirit is a seperate person.

 

[The Learner]

The above group of posts proves beyond doubt that the Holdy Spirit is not the Father.

 

[The Learner]

Acts 4:24-27 is sola scripture. It has nothing to do with the watchtower.

Thanks for the advice, but no one has denied Jesus. Jesus being a servant of God does not diminish his status as God's servant.

Acts 4

Easy-to-Read Version

​

The Apostles and the Jewish High Council​

4 While Peter and John were speaking to the people, some Jewish leaders came up to them. There were some priests, the captain of the soldiers that guarded the Temple, and some Sadducees. 2 They were upset because of what Peter and John were teaching the people. By telling people about Jesus, the apostles were teaching that people will rise from death. 3 The Jewish leaders arrested Peter and John and put them in jail. It was already night, so they kept them in jail until the next day. 4 But many of the people who heard the apostles believed what they said. There were now about 5000 men in the group of believers.
5 The next day the Jewish rulers, the older Jewish leaders, and the teachers of the law met in Jerusalem. 6 Annas the high priest, Caiaphas, John, and Alexander were there. Everyone from the high priest’s family was there. 7 They made Peter and John stand before all the people. They asked them over and over, “How did you make this crippled man well? What power did you use? By whose authority did you do this?”
8 Then Peter was filled with the Holy Spirit and said to them, “Rulers of the people and you older leaders, 9 are you questioning us today about what we did to help this crippled man? Are you asking us what made him well? 10 We want all of you and all the people of Israel to know that this man was made well by the power of Jesus Christ from Nazareth. You nailed Jesus to a cross, but God raised him from death. This man was crippled, but he is now well. He is able to stand here before you because of the power of Jesus! 11 Jesus is
‘the stone[a] that you builders thought was not important.
But this stone has become the cornerstone.’
12 Jesus is the only one who can save people. His name is the only power in the world that has been given to save anyone. We must be saved through him!”
13 The Jewish leaders understood that Peter and John had no special training or education. But they also saw that they were not afraid to speak. So the leaders were amazed. They also realized that Peter and John had been with Jesus. 14 They saw the crippled man standing there beside the apostles. They saw that he was healed, so they could say nothing against the apostles.
15 The Jewish leaders told them to leave the council meeting. Then the leaders talked to each other about what they should do. 16 They said, “What shall we do with these men? Everyone in Jerusalem knows about the miracle they did as a sign from God. It’s too obvious. We can’t say it didn’t happen. 17 But we must make them afraid to talk to anyone again using that name.[b] Then this problem will not spread among the people.”
18 So the Jewish leaders called Peter and John in again. They told the apostles not to say anything or to teach anything in the name of Jesus. 19 But Peter and John answered them, “What do you think is right? What would God want? Should we obey you or God? 20 We cannot be quiet. We must tell people about what we have seen and heard.”
21-22 The Jewish leaders could not find a way to punish the apostles, because all the people were praising God for what had been done. This miracle was a sign from God. The man who was healed was more than 40 years old. So the Jewish leaders warned the apostles again and let them go free.

Peter and John Return to the Believers​

23 Peter and John left the meeting of Jewish leaders and went to their own group. They told the group everything that the leading priests and the older Jewish leaders had said to them. 24 When the believers heard this, they all prayed to God with one purpose. They said, “Master, you are the one who made the sky, the earth, the sea, and everything in the world. 25 Our ancestor David was your servant. With the help of the Holy Spirit he wrote these words:
‘Why are the nations shouting?
Why are the people planning such useless things?
26 ‘The kings of the earth prepare themselves to fight,
and the rulers all come together against the Lord and against his Messiah.’
27 That’s what actually happened when Herod, Pontius Pilate, the other nations, and the people of Israel all came together against Jesus here in Jerusalem. He is your holy Servant, the one you made to be the Messiah. 28 These people who came together against Jesus made your plan happen. It was done because of your power and your will. 29 And now, Lord, listen to what they are saying. They are trying to make us afraid. We are your servants. Help us to say what you want us to say without fear. 30 Help us to be brave by showing us your power. Make sick people well. Cause miraculous signs and wonders to happen by the authority[c] of Jesus, your holy servant.”
31 After the believers prayed, the place where they were meeting shook. They were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and they continued to speak God’s message without fear.

The Believers Share​

32 The whole group of believers was united in their thinking and in what they wanted. None of them said that the things they had were their own. Instead, they shared everything. 33 With great power the apostles were making it known to everyone that the Lord Jesus was raised from death. And God blessed all the believers very much. 34 None of them could say they needed anything. Everyone who owned fields or houses sold them. They brought the money they got 35 and gave it to the apostles. Then everyone was given whatever they needed.
36 One of the believers was named Joseph. The apostles called him Barnabas, a name that means “one who encourages others.” He was a Levite born in Cyprus. 37 Joseph sold a field he owned. He brought the money and gave it to the apostles.

Footnotes​

1. Acts 4:11 stone A picture or symbol meaning Jesus.
2. Acts 4:17 that name That is, Jesus’ name. The Jewish leaders avoided saying his name. See Lk. 15:2.
3. Acts 4:30 authority Literally, “name.”

 

[The Learner]

I don't think I need to post about false christs or another jesus

 

[The Learner]

If that were so . . . How does the Father send the Holy Spirit? Why does Jesus say that Himself, the Holy Spirit, and the Father would come live in His disciples? This is all over Scripture. Jesus is YHWH of the OT, the Creator God, and our God is Triune.

Much love!

I forget do JW's believe Jesus and the Holy Spirit lives in them?

 

[The Learner]

Jesus is the Name given to Emmanuel, being God With Us. This is YHWH of the OT, now 'Iesous of the NT. Emmanuel . . . God with Us.

Consider:

Philippians 2:5-8 KJV
5) Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6) Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7) But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8) And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Everything here shines out with the pre-existance of Jesus Christ.

"He made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Him the form of a servant." Let's look at these things with a clear mind. He took upon Himself the form of a servant. This means that He was there to take on that form, and before taking on that form . . . He wasn't in that form.

So what does this tell us?

That He was not in the form of a servant, therefore, He was in a different form. What could that form be? If not a servant, was He a rebel? A renegade? Hardly! If not a servant, if not a rebel, then Master? "Who, being in the form of God . . ."

John 13:13 KJV
Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.

"He humbled Himself." Meaning, before that, He was not humble. So then was He proud? Arrogant? Or Transcendent?

1 Corinthians 15:47 KJV
The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

Transcendent.

"And became obedient", I'm sure you are getting the idea by now. Meaning, before becoming obedient, Jesus was something other than obedient. What could that be? Disobedient? Or Sovereign?

Philippians 2:10 KJV
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Sovereign.

Again, all of these speak towards His pre-existance, as He became these things, taking on their forms, being made in the likeness of man. The Sovereign God, who was made in the likeness of man, becoming humble, obedient, a servant. Our Savior God.

Let's think about something else here.

Paul appropriated this passage from Isaiah:

Isaiah 45:23 KJV
I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

Spoken by YHWH, and Paul applies it to Jesus. Can you imagine if Jesus were not YHWH?? Can you imagine that Paul the Apostle would take a passage where God says,

Isaiah 45:20-24 KJV
20) Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god that cannot save.
21) Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
22) Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
23) I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
24) Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.

"Hey, it's ME! Only ME! No one else, just ME! I am God, I am Savior, only ME!! And it's to ME that every knee will bow!!"

And Paul says, "to Jesus".

It's like I'm telling you. Forget about all the arguments, these things are all so plainly stated. There's no way around it. Having discussed this with unbelievers for decades, I've only found one real argument against the Trinity, or against the deity of Jesus Christ, only one! It always always comes down to this: "But . . . 1 can't be 3, 3 can't be 1." And that's it! If you let go of that, then you can read all of these passages exactly as they are written, without the need to find some way that this particular place does not actually teach us the deity of Jesus Christ.

Here's one more:

John 8:58 KJV
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Here, Jesus is plainly saying, "before Abraham did exist, I do exist." Only someone who is outside of our time continuum can factually make that statement. But such a one, who lives in the eternal, can absolutely make that statement. Jesus, our Eternal God, created this space/time continuum, and is not bound by it's laws, being the Creator God.

Isaiah 44:6-8 KJV
6) Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
7) And who, as I, shall call, and shall declare it, and set it in order for me, since I appointed the ancient people? and the things that are coming, and shall come, let them shew unto them.
8) Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

No one but God Himself is able to tell the future things, even from the ancient past, and He offers this as proof of His deity. In fact this is why I became Christian, when I realized the Bible came from Outside. He said things no one could have known. The prophecies.

Before Abraham did exist, before his historical existence, Jesus does exist. Before Abraham did exist in the past, Jesus does exist in the present. That's a real mind-bender, except, there is in fact Someone of Whom this can be truthfully said. The Creator God.

I want you to notice something.

You are presenting to me arguments to convince me that what seems to be the clear and plain reading of various passages isn't valid.

I'm presenting to you arguments that what seems to be the clear and plain reading should be accepted as valid.

Much love!

Isaiah 7:14
But the Lord will still show you this sign: The young woman is pregnant and will give birth to a son. She will name him Immanuel.

Matthew 1:23
“The virgin will be pregnant and will give birth to a son. They will name him Immanuel.” (Immanuel means “God with us.”)

 

[The Learner]

So to review . . . God - YHWH - declared Himself the only God, and the only savior. Jesus was born, to save, and was called "God with us".

Seems crystal clear.

Much love!

1. Luke 1:47
   I am very happy because God is my Savior.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
2. Luke 1:69
   He has given us a powerful Saviorfrom the family of his servant David.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
3. Luke 2:11
   Today your Saviorwas born in David’s town. He is the Messiah, the Lord.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
4. Acts 5:31
   Jesus is the one God honored by giving him a place at his right side. He made him our Leader and Savior. God did this to give all the people of Israel the opportunity to change and turn to God to have their sins forgiven.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
5. Acts 7:35
   “This Moses was the one his people said they did not want. They said, ‘Did anyone say you could be our ruler and judge?’ But he is the one God sent to be a ruler and savior. God sent him with the help of an angel, the one Moses saw in the burning bush.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
6. Acts 13:23
   “As he promised, God has brought one of David’s descendants to Israel to be their Savior. That descendant is Jesus.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
7. Acts 13:27
   The Jews living in Jerusalem and their leaders did not realize that Jesus was the Savior. The words the prophets wrote about him were read every Sabbath day, but they did not understand. They condemned Jesus. When they did this, they made the words of the prophets come true.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

 

[The Learner]

1. Romans 11:26
   And that is how all Israel will be saved. The Scriptures say, “The Saviorwill come from Zion; he will take away all evil from the family of Jacob.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
2. Ephesians 5:23
   A husband is the head of his wife, just as Christ is the head of the church. Christ is the Saviorof the church, which is his body.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
3. Philippians 3:20
   But the government that rules us is in heaven. We are waiting for our Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, to come from there.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
4. 1 Timothy 1:1
   Greetings from Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus. I am an apostle by the command of God our Saviorand Christ Jesus our hope.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
5. 1 Timothy 2:3
   This is good and pleases God our Savior.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
6. 1 Timothy 4:10
   We hope in the living God, the Savior of all people. In particular, he is the Saviorof all those who believe in him. This is why we work and struggle.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

 

[The Learner]

1. 2 Timothy 1:10
   And now it has been shown to us in the coming of our SaviorChrist Jesus. He destroyed death and showed us the way to have life. Yes, through the Good News Jesus showed us the way to have life that cannot be destroyed.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
2. Titus 1:3
   At the right time, God let the world know about that life. He did this through the telling of the Good News message, and he trusted me with that work. I told people that message because God our Saviorcommanded me to.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
3. Titus 1:4
   To Titus, a true son to me in the faith we share together. Grace and peace to you from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
4. Titus 2:10
   they should not steal from them; and they should show their masters that they can be trusted. Then, in everything they do, they will show that the teaching of God our Savioris good.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
5. Titus 2:13
   We should live like that while we are waiting for the coming of our great God and SaviorJesus Christ. He is our great hope, and he will come with glory.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
6. Titus 3:4
   But then the kindness and love of God our Saviorwas made known.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
7. Titus 3:6
   God poured out to us that Holy Spirit fully through Jesus Christ our Savior.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

 

[The Learner]

1. Hebrews 2:10
   God—the one who made all things and for whose glory all things exist—wanted many people to be his children and share his glory. So he did what he needed to do. He made perfect the one who leads those people to salvation. He made Jesus a perfect Saviorthrough his suffering.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
2. 2 Peter 1:1
   Greetings from Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ. To all of you who share in the same valuable faith that we have. This faith was given to us because our God and SaviorJesus Christ always does what is good and right.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
3. 2 Peter 1:11
   And you will be given a very great welcome into the kingdom of our Lord and SaviorJesus Christ, a kingdom that never ends.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
4. 2 Peter 2:20
   People can be made free from the evil in the world. They can be made free by knowing our Lord and SaviorJesus Christ. But if they go back into those evil things and are controlled by them, then it is worse for them than it was before.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
5. 2 Peter 3:2
   I want you to remember the words that the holy prophets spoke in the past. And remember the command that our Lord and Saviorgave us. He gave us that command through your apostles.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

2 Peter 3:18-1 John 4:14
Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)

 

[The Learner]

It's just that you are taking "God is with us" literally. This phrase applies to many in the OT. No one thought it meant literally.

1. Isaiah 7:10
   

   Immanuel—God Is With Us​

   Then the Lord spoke to Ahaz again
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
2. Isaiah 8:10
   Make your plans for the fight. Your plans will be defeated. Give orders to your armies, but your orders will be useless, because God is with us!
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
3. Romans 8:31
   

   God’s Love in Christ Jesus​

   So what should we say about this? If God is for us, no one can stand against us. And God is with us.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

 

[The Learner]

Isaiah 8:10
Take counsel together, and it shall come to nought; speak the word, and it shall not stand: for God is with us.

I don't see the many people of God is with us.

 

[The Learner]

Its fact sir. Its fact Catholicism created the trinity in 381 at the council of Constantinople, ( its recorded history) when they added the holy spirit to a godhead of 3. Israel NEVER taught or served a trinity god. That means Jesus and every bible writer knew nothing of the true God being a trinity= another fact sir. You best recheck.

I already posted some church fathers who prove otherwise. Need I post many more?

Google trinity site:newadvent.org to see hundreds of quotes before Nicea.

 

[The Learner]

Isn't this a forbidden topic?

So, a verse that applies to the 2 kingdoms warring during the time of Isaiah and the future destruction of Judah and Israel (Isaiah 7:10-17) applies to 1st century as a good sign? This video makes the negative sign referred to crystal clear.

no volume on my computer and huh?

 

[The Learner]

That's why the Bible calls God Spirit. God doesn't a body and there aren't multiple person's who are God. John 4:24 says "God is Spirit" or if you would like to insist that God is A Spirit then we can work with that too. Well, the Bible defines God as a Spirit right? The means the Father is "A" Holy Spirit. Then someone think there is also another Holy Spirit. So now we have two Holy Spirits, but wait some say Jesus is also the Holy Spirit, now we have three. Then why does Jesus say the Holy Spirit is not someone who knows the Father or Son?

I would say Jesus isn't a Spirit. He was resurrected a man and then denied being a spirit in Luke 24:39. When he was taken to heaven, he was apparently a man with a body. There is no such record of Jesus losing his human body after this. Stephen saw Jesus "standing" at the right hand of God. Paul and Peter wrote about Jesus after he was taken to heaven and continued calling him a man. Please see 1 Timothy 2:5.


John and Peter laid hands and gave the Holy Spirit in Acts 8:17 without God's permission too.

I think all of these examples of "regular" people doing things that Jesus did are telling of who Jesus isn't.



John refers back to what was promise previously in the narrative of John. John 20:22 doesn't stand alone out of context of the rest of the chapter.

See, 3 says this:

34For the One whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit.

Jesus is the one God sent, yet God gives the Spirit. It's all by God's authority.


Where does the Bible say that?

The trinity is not three gods. 1^3