A Question for Jehovah's Witnesses

[Wrangler]

But we're not Jewish, so we can't be Jehovah's Witnesses.

This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. First, we can be witnesses to MANY things.

Secondly, we were made in the image, not of Christ, but of God. Ergo, we are inherently witnesses to Jesus' God. The only question is, will we be a good witness for Jehovah or a bad witness for Jehovah?

Third, we were chosen (or elected) by Jehovah to be saved through his Messiah.

Fourth, there is a God-given order to things and this is the order. Supposing otherwise, is a violation of the 1st Commandment.

 

[Jack]

Well, the same could be said of anyone. Christianity is so divided on perspective that one person's heretic is another person's saint across the board.

I don't know of any organization that attacks the Christian Bible like JW's!

 

[Jack]

That is not what @Keiw said.

Let's see if Keiw denies that Jesus was JW.

One thing I've noticed among trinitarians is the abuse of capitalization. Capitization implies proper nouns. The word "god" is not a proper noun. The proper noun to refer to our Creator is Jehovah. It is in the same way as the POTUS is not "Man." The proper noun that applies to the president of the United States is Joe Biden.

@Keiw's used a lowercase letter letter for the action that Jesus performed and continues to perform; he is a witness to his God, Jehovah. Succinctly, Jesus is a Jehovah witness. This is the precise meaning of Rev 1:5.

@Keiw was NOT suggesting Jesus is a member in good standing of an organization that came about 18 centuries after his death that was a proper noun, abbreviated JW. I think you know kthis.

Regarding the notion of rejecting everlasting fire. I've never heard a JW reject this. Perhaps you are wrong about this, as you seem to be wrong about a great many things?

JW's believe in the everlasting fire that Jesus warned us about? That's the first time I've heard of that.

 

[Wrangler]

Jesus is God the Creator.

Colossians 1:16
16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers.

It's so funny how you completely disregard 7 proofs from 2 verses, then base your entire theology on a bad translation taken out of context.
All new creations were in Christ. "By" Christ is a bad translation.

15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation,
16because in connection with him all things were created in heaven and on earth, the visible and the invisible—whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him,
17and he is before all things, and in him all things are held together.
18And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning, the firstborn from among the dead, so that he would come to have first place in everything.
19For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell,

 

[Runningman]

I don't know of any organization that attacks the Christian Bible like JW's!

Well, the same can be said of any group/publisher who interprets/translates the Bible to fit their sincere beliefs about what it's saying.

May I have an example of the abuse you're referring to please.

 

[Jack]

It's so funny how you completely disregard 7 proofs from 2 verses, then base your entire theology on a bad translation taken out of context.
All new creations were in Christ. "By" Christ is a bad translation.

15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation,
16because in connection with him all things were created in heaven and on earth, the visible and the invisible—whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him,
17and he is before all things, and in him all things are held together.
18And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning, the firstborn from among the dead, so that he would come to have first place in everything.
19For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell,

All English Bibles teach that Jesus is God. Even the JW bible. Are they all "bad translations"?

 

[Jack]

Well, the same can be said of any group/publisher who interprets/translates the Bible to fit their sincere beliefs about what it's saying.

May I have an example of the abuse you're referring to please.

Not true at all! JW's twist nearly every verse in the Bible to change the meaning!

 

[Wrangler]

All English Bibles teach that Jesus is God. Even the JW bible. Are they all "bad translations"?

What you are saying is demonstrably untrue. I showed an English translation that is ‘in Jesus’ not ‘by Jesus.’ And most are that way.

 

[Wrangler]

May I have an example of the abuse you're referring to please.

Not true at all! JW's twist nearly every verse in the Bible to change the meaning!

Jack don’t need no specific examples. Sweeping generalities is sufficient for the indoctrinated. JW’s are guilty by accusation! How many times do you have to be told?

 

[Runningman]

Not true at all! JW's twist nearly every verse in the Bible to change the meaning!

The NWT isn't bad. I didn't like it many years ago because people kept telling me not to read it. I wondered what they were so afraid of. After studying the Bible for many years since then, I realized that the campaign to keep people from taking an honest look at the JWs was just propaganda.

So unless you have any specific examples of something that has been twisted for me to investigate then that's just your opinion.

 

[Keiw]

Michael is an angel. God COMMANDED His angels to worship Jesus. All the diff in the world. Michael worships Jesus.

No God did not command that. He commanded them to do obeisance to his appointed king. Altered translations to mislead has worship.

 

[Keiw]

That is not what @Keiw said.

One thing I've noticed among trinitarians is the abuse of capitalization. Capitization implies proper nouns. The word "god" is not a proper noun. The proper noun to refer to our Creator is Jehovah. It is in the same way as the POTUS is not "Man." The proper noun that applies to the president of the United States is Joe Biden.

@Keiw's used a lowercase letter letter for the action that Jesus performed and continues to perform; he is a witness to his God, Jehovah. Succinctly, Jesus is a Jehovah witness. This is the precise meaning of Rev 1:5.

@Keiw was NOT suggesting Jesus is a member in good standing of an organization that came about 18 centuries after his death that was a proper noun, abbreviated JW. I think you know this.

Regarding the notion of rejecting everlasting fire. I've never heard a JW reject this. Perhaps you are wrong about this, as you seem to be wrong about a great many things?

There is no literal eternal suffering, it is symbolism.
He cant help being wrong, its the altered translations that mislead that causes it. They believe the errors over Jesus.

 

[Berean]

Third, we were chosen (or elected) by Jehovah to be saved through his Messiah.

So, you're of the "anointed"?

 

[Jack]

What you are saying is demonstrably untrue. I showed an English translation that is ‘in Jesus’ not ‘by Jesus.’ And most are that way.

Then why does Michael WORSHIP Jesus? Heb 1 Let all God's angels WORSHIP Him!

 

[Jack]

Jack don’t need no specific examples. Sweeping generalities is sufficient for the indoctrinated. JW’s are guilty by accusation! How many times do you have to be told?

JW's are guilty by attacking the Christian Bible like Satan.

 

[Jack]

The NWT isn't bad. I didn't like it many years ago because people kept telling me not to read it. I wondered what they were so afraid of. After studying the Bible for many years since then, I realized that the campaign to keep people from taking an honest look at the JWs was just propaganda.

So unless you have any specific examples of something that has been twisted for me to investigate then that's just your opinion.

Easy!
Revelation 1:17-18
17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Jesus is God!

 

[Jack]

No God did not command that. He commanded them to do obeisance to his appointed king. Altered translations to mislead has worship.

I quoted YOUR JW bible. NWT 1970 Heb 1 Let all God's angels WORSHIP him! Michael is an angel who worships Jesus!

 

[Runningman]

Easy!
Revelation 1:17-18
17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Jesus is God!

The Bible says God is immortal (1 Tim 1:17, 6:16) yet in what you quoted Jesus said he was dead. That would, in turn, based on that alone, mean that Jesus wasn't immortal and isn't God because immortal means someone can't die, ever.

How does that expose a twisting of the scripture by JWs? The NWT says basically the same thing as the version you quoted.

 

[Jack]

The Bible says God is immortal (1 Tim 1:17, 6:16) yet in what you quoted Jesus said he was dead. That would, in turn, based on that alone, mean that Jesus wasn't immortal and isn't God because immortal means someone can't die, ever.

How does that expose a twisting of the scripture by JWs? The NWT says basically the same thing as the version you quoted.

NWT 1970 Heb 1 Let all God's angels WORSHIP him! Michael is an angel who worships Jesus! Jesus is God!

 

[Runningman]

No God did not command that. He commanded them to do obeisance to his appointed king. Altered translations to mislead has worship.

I would also add that the kind of bowing down to that God ordered His angels to give to the Son was for the glory of the Father (Philippians 2:10,11) but the kind of worship that Jesus taught Christians to give was of the order of "spirit and truth" to the Father only in John 4:23,24.

So true Biblical worship actually has very little, if anything, to do with prostration. True worship is offering our bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God, which is our spiritual service of worship. We do not be conform to this world, but are being transformed by the renewing of our mind.