A Question for Jehovah's Witnesses

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Runningman

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from Adam Clarke's Commentary...
Who is the image of the invisible God - The counterpart of God Almighty, and if the image of the invisible God, consequently nothing that appeared in him could be that image; for if it could be visible in the Son, it could also be visible in the Father; but if the Father be invisible, consequently his image in the Son must be invisible also. This is that form of God of which he divested himself; the ineffable glory in which he not only did not appear, as to its splendor and accompaniments, but concealed also its essential nature; that inaccessible light which no man, no created being, can possibly see. This was that Divine nature, the fullness of the Godhead bodily, which dwelt in him.
The first-born of every creature - I suppose this phrase to mean the same as that, Phi 2:9 : God hath given him a name which is above every name; he is as man at the head of all the creation of God; nor can he with any propriety be considered as a creature, having himself created all things, and existed before any thing was made. If it be said that God created him first, and that he, by a delegated power from God, created all things, this is most flatly contradicted by the apostle’s reasoning in the 16th and 17th verses. As the Jews term Jehovah becoro shel olam, the first-born of all the world, or of all the creation, to signify his having created or produced all things; (see Wolfius in loc.) so Christ is here termed, and the words which follow in the 16th and 17th verses are the proof of this. The phraseology is Jewish; and as they apply it to the supreme Being merely to denote his eternal pre-existence, and to point him out as the cause of all things; it is most evident that St. Paul uses it in the same way, and illustrates his meaning in the following words, which would be absolutely absurd if we could suppose that by the former he intended to convey any idea of the inferiority of Jesus Christ (Clarke).

from Jamieson, Fausset, Brown...
Col 1:15 - They who have experienced in themselves "redemption" (Col 1:14), know Christ in the glorious character here described, as above the highest angels to whom the false teachers (Col 2:18) taught worship was to be paid. Paul describes Him: (1) in relation to God and creation (Col 1:15-17); (2) in relation to the Church (Col 1:18-20). As the former regards Him as the Creator (Col 1:15-16) and the Sustainer (Col 1:17) of the natural world; so the latter, as the source and stay of the new moral creation.
image--exact likeness and perfect Representative. Adam was made "in the image of God" (Gen 1:27). But Christ, the second Adam, perfectly reflected visibly "the invisible God" (1Ti 1:17), whose glories the first Adam only in part represented. "Image" (eicon) involves "likeness" (homoiosis); but "likeness" does not involve "image." "Image" always supposes a prototype, which it not merely resembles, but from which it is drawn: the exact counterpart, as the reflection of the sun in the water: the child the living image of the parent. "Likeness" implies mere resemblance, not the exact counterpart and derivation as "image" expresses; hence it is nowhere applied to the Son, while "image" is here, compare 1Co 11:7 [TRENCH]. (Joh 1:18; Joh 14:9; 2Co 4:4; 1Ti 3:16; Heb 1:3). Even before His incarnation He was the image of the invisible God, as the Word (Joh_1:1-3) by whom God created the worlds, and by whom God appeared to the patriarchs. Thus His essential character as always "the image of God," (1) before the incarnation, (2) in the days of His flesh, and (3) now in His glorified state, is, I think, contemplated here by the verb "is."
first-born of every creature-- (Heb 1:6), "the first-begotten": "begotten of His Father before all worlds" [Nicene Creed]. Priority and superlative dignity is implied (Psa 89:27). English Version might seem to favor Arianism, as if Christ were a creature. Translate, "Begotten (literally, 'born') before every creature," as the context shows, which gives the reason why He is so designated. "For," &c. (Col 1:16-17) [TRENCH]. This expression is understood by ORIGEN (so far is the Greek from favoring Socinian or Arian views) as declaring the Godhead of Christ, and is used by Him as a phrase to mark that Godhead, in contrast with His manhood [Book 2, sec. Against Celsus] (JFB).​
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The Father is never called the image of God or the exact representation of God. The easiest way to say someone is God is to just come right out and say it, which is something Paul avoiding saying about Jesus on many occasions.

In the beginning, did God create or did the image of God create? Do we pray and worship to an image of God or do we pray to and worship God?
 
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Jack

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Same thing applies to regular Christians.

Ephesians 3
19of the love of Christ, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.
So you created ALL THINGS as Col says Jesus did? Did someone call you "My Lord and my God" as Thomas did Jesus?
 
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Jack

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No one is predestined.
Have you never read the Christian Bible?

Romans 8:29-30
29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
All can choose to obey and repent, Few do though.--John 3:16-
Yes I remember you saying Jesus is ONLY with JW's!
 
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rebuilder 454

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Do you know that you have to speculate who ‘us/our’ refers to?
Not when the word says WHO it is.
You are hopelessly duped.
All cults stumble in the main pillar of Christianity.
The deity of Jesus.
He receives worship due to him.
The Father calls him.God.
You deny Him.
Therefore the Father denies you.
That cult animal carried you into the desert and died....left you there.

Watchtowers took a shotgun to the barn emptied it from 2 ft away and missed the barn.
Salvation is through the God man Jesus.
Impossible to screw that up...literally impossible.

And yet you managed to do just that.
 
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Runningman

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So you created ALL THINGS as Col says Jesus did? Did someone call you "My Lord and my God" as Thomas did Jesus?
Neither Jesus nor I created all things. That's the point I am making

One was not supposed to get the wrong idea that a human being like Jesus created all things. I am sure Paul did not intend for any person to think that.

As Paul pointed out in Colossians 1:15, Jesus isn't the invisible God and Jesus was created. Going forward in this passage, the "all things" refers to the framework for the church in heaven and earth, but not literally all things. Jesus being the creator is demonstrably false using Scripture. The Father, also known as YHWH, is the sole creator. Genesis 2:4-7, Isaiah 44:24, Acts 4:24-27, Acts 17:24,25, etc.

Colossians 1:15 proves Jesus isn't the invisible God and then verses 18-20 prove that the context is about the creation of the church and that the "all things" Jesus accomplished in heaven and earth happened after he was born, when he died, by his blood on the cross.

Colossians 1
20and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through the blood of His cross.

side note: Ephesians 2:11-18 is a parallel to Colossians 1:15-20.
 
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rebuilder 454

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The Father is never called the image of God or the exact representation of God. The easiest way to say someone is God is to just come right out and say it, which is something Paul avoiding saying about Jesus on many occasions.

In the beginning, did God create or did the image of God create? Do we pray and worship to an image of God or do we pray to and worship God?
Nobody with any knowledge says the Father and Jesus are the same person.
Jesus deity
Father deity
Both deity
Both one.
One God.
Always has been one God.
Always Has been more than one person.
Impossible to miss.
But you did.
 
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Runningman

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Nobody with any knowledge says the Father and Jesus are the same person.
Jesus deity
Father deity
Both deity
Both one.
One God.
Always has been one God.
Always Has been more than one person.
Impossible to miss.
But you did.
Good morning, care you provide any evidence for your claims? Thanks.
 
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Behold

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Nobody with any knowledge says the Father and Jesus are the same person.
Jesus deity
Father deity
Both deity
Both one.
One God.
Always has been one God.
Always Has been more than one person.
Impossible to miss.
But you did.

Father God is : "God is a Spirit", and "Christ is THAT Spirit".

Only GOD can give the Holy Spirit, and God gave HIM in Gen 2:7, and Jesus the God-Man, gave HIM in John 20:22 and Acts 2:38
 

rebuilder 454

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No, the error is that they cannot see that God as the Word Created all things, and then that Word became flesh about 4000 years later.

They can not understand perfection in simplicity.View attachment 45084
They speculate in who the "us" and "our image," is in genesis.
They say it can not be Jesus.
They lie about it, because John 1 testifies 100% against them.
If it is not Gods Son in the "our "and "us", then it is a created being alongside God doing the creating.
Or if they say Jesus has no deity (face palm) then they also are ALSO saying a created being was with God CREATING all things.

But it gets worse. Heb 1 declares Jesus is NOT AN ANGEL.
So the only way we can honestly unpack it is that Jesus is the second person with God.and also God. 2 persons. 2 deities.
And watchtowers refuse to worship the one worthy of worship.
They deny Jesus.

SMH.
 

rebuilder 454

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Good morning, care you provide any evidence for your claims? Thanks.
You mean for the hundredth time????
The deity of Jesus is a no brainer.
A babe in Christ can read heb1 and John 1.
Only God can resurrect himself as the word declares.
Thomas worshipped Him
That fledgeling believer can rest in the written word.
Only cults stumble.
 
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rebuilder 454

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In most of the Septuagint and New Testament, arche is translated as a beginning point. The odds aren’t in your favor. Revelation 3:14 is compatible with scripture about Jesus being created. He’s a human after all. Decades later they kept calling him a man after he was resurrected and taken to heaven.

Many years after the fact, John wrote Revelation and Paul wrote this:

1 Timothy 2
5For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
The early church struggled over the God head.

Heaven won the debate.
We now have the bible.
The one you refute
 

Runningman

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You mean for the hundredth time????
The deity of Jesus is a no brainer.
A babe in Christ can read heb1 and John 1.
Only God can resurrect himself ad TGE word declares.
Thomas worshipped Him
That fledgeling believer can rest in the written word.
Only cults stumble.
The early church struggled over the God head.

Heaven won the debate.
We now have the bible.
The one you refute
I see you are providing your opinion, but not seeing any scripture. I ask because I have already read the Bible and can't find what you're saying. Thanks.
 

Runningman

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Father God is : "God is a Spirit", and "Christ is THAT Spirit".

Only GOD can give the Holy Spirit, and God gave HIM in Gen 2:7, and Jesus the God-Man, gave HIM in John 20:22 and Acts 2:38
That's correct and Jesus had to ask God to do that.

John 14
16And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Advocate to be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot receive Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you do know Him, for He abides with you and will be in you.

John 17
9I ask on their behalf. I do not ask on behalf of the world, but on behalf of those You have given Me; for they are Yours.
 

Rella ~ I am a woman

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I see you are providing your opinion, but not seeing any scripture. I ask because I have already read the Bible and can't find what you're saying. Thanks.
What ois it that you cannot understand about John 1:1AND 1:14

Lists are shortened due toi size.

PICK YOUR TRANSLATION OF CHOICE
John 1:1
New International Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

New Living Translation
In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.

English Standard Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Berean Standard Bible
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Berean Literal Bible
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

King James Bible
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

New King James Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

New American Standard Bible
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

NASB 1995
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

NASB 1977
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Legacy Standard Bible
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Amplified Bible
In the beginning [before all time] was the Word (Christ), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God Himself.

Christian Standard Bible
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

American Standard Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
In the origin The Word had been existing and That Word had been existing with God and That Word was himself God.

Contemporary English Version
In the beginning was the one who is called the Word. The Word was with God and was truly God.

Douay-Rheims Bible
IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

English Revised Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Good News Translation
In the beginning the Word already existed; the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

International Standard Version
In the beginning, the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Literal Standard Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God;

Majority Standard Bible
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.




Add


OR JOHN 1:14

New International Version
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

New Living Translation
So the Word became human and made his home among us. He was full of unfailing love and faithfulness. And we have seen his glory, the glory of the Father’s one and only Son.

English Standard Version
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Berean Standard Bible
The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us. We have seen His glory, the glory of the one and only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Berean Literal Bible
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. And we beheld His glory, a glory as of an only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

King James Bible
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

New King James Version
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

New American Standard Bible
And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us; and we saw His glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

NASB 1995
And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

NASB 1977
And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Legacy Standard Bible
And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Amplified Bible
And the Word (Christ) became flesh, and lived among us; and we [actually] saw His glory, glory as belongs to the [One and] only begotten Son of the Father, [the Son who is truly unique, the only One of His kind, who is] full of grace and truth (absolutely free of deception).

Christian Standard Bible
The Word became flesh and dwelt among us. We observed his glory, the glory as the one and only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
The Word became flesh and took up residence among us. We observed His glory, the glory as the One and Only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

American Standard Version
And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And The Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of The Only Begotten of The Father, full of grace and truth.

Contemporary English Version
The Word became a human being and lived here with us. We saw his true glory, the glory of the only Son of the Father. From him the complete gifts of undeserved grace and truth have come down to us.

Douay-Rheims Bible
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

English Revised Version
And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
The Word became human and lived among us. We saw his glory. It was the glory that the Father shares with his only Son, a glory full of kindness and truth.

Good News Translation
The Word became a human being and, full of grace and truth, lived among us. We saw his glory, the glory which he received as the Father's only Son.

International Standard Version
The Word became flesh and lived among us. We gazed on his glory, the kind of glory that belongs to the Father's unique Son, who is full of grace and truth.

Literal Standard Version
And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of [the] only begotten of [the] Father, full of grace and truth.

Majority Standard Bible
The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us. We have seen His glory, the glory of the one and only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.









 

Runningman

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(John 14)....This happened in Acts 2.

Whereas, John 20:22, is before Acts 2, and Jesus gave the 11 apostle The Holy Spirit.
I mean, the Bible doesn't record every time they had to scratch their head or clear their throat. We know it happened even if it wasn't written about. Jesus made a precedent about the Advocate being something he needed to ask God to send. Since Jesus made a precedent out of this, it follows, at least from my perspective, that when Jesus wanted this he would needed to ask God.

John 16
23In that day you will no longer ask Me anything. Truly, truly, I tell you, whatever you ask the Father in My name, He will give you.
 
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Runningman

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What ois it that you cannot understand about John 1:1AND 1:14

Lists are shortened due toi size.

PICK YOUR TRANSLATION OF CHOICE
John 1:1
New International Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

New Living Translation
In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.

English Standard Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Berean Standard Bible
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Berean Literal Bible
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

King James Bible
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

New King James Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

New American Standard Bible
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

NASB 1995
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

NASB 1977
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Legacy Standard Bible
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Amplified Bible
In the beginning [before all time] was the Word (Christ), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God Himself.

Christian Standard Bible
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

American Standard Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
In the origin The Word had been existing and That Word had been existing with God and That Word was himself God.

Contemporary English Version
In the beginning was the one who is called the Word. The Word was with God and was truly God.

Douay-Rheims Bible
IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

English Revised Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Good News Translation
In the beginning the Word already existed; the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

International Standard Version
In the beginning, the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Literal Standard Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God;

Majority Standard Bible
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.




Add


OR JOHN 1:14

New International Version
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

New Living Translation
So the Word became human and made his home among us. He was full of unfailing love and faithfulness. And we have seen his glory, the glory of the Father’s one and only Son.

English Standard Version
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Berean Standard Bible
The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us. We have seen His glory, the glory of the one and only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Berean Literal Bible
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. And we beheld His glory, a glory as of an only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

King James Bible
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

New King James Version
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

New American Standard Bible
And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us; and we saw His glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

NASB 1995
And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

NASB 1977
And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Legacy Standard Bible
And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Amplified Bible
And the Word (Christ) became flesh, and lived among us; and we [actually] saw His glory, glory as belongs to the [One and] only begotten Son of the Father, [the Son who is truly unique, the only One of His kind, who is] full of grace and truth (absolutely free of deception).

Christian Standard Bible
The Word became flesh and dwelt among us. We observed his glory, the glory as the one and only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
The Word became flesh and took up residence among us. We observed His glory, the glory as the One and Only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

American Standard Version
And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And The Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of The Only Begotten of The Father, full of grace and truth.

Contemporary English Version
The Word became a human being and lived here with us. We saw his true glory, the glory of the only Son of the Father. From him the complete gifts of undeserved grace and truth have come down to us.

Douay-Rheims Bible
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

English Revised Version
And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
The Word became human and lived among us. We saw his glory. It was the glory that the Father shares with his only Son, a glory full of kindness and truth.

Good News Translation
The Word became a human being and, full of grace and truth, lived among us. We saw his glory, the glory which he received as the Father's only Son.

International Standard Version
The Word became flesh and lived among us. We gazed on his glory, the kind of glory that belongs to the Father's unique Son, who is full of grace and truth.

Literal Standard Version
And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of [the] only begotten of [the] Father, full of grace and truth.

Majority Standard Bible
The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us. We have seen His glory, the glory of the one and only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.







Amen!

What about them though? What do you think they mean?
 
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Behold

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We know it happened even if it wasn't written about.

It didn't "happen" in Acts 2.

So, you have the " water baptism for JEWS, that the OT.. which is John the Baptist's "repent and be baptized"....

And you have the beginning of the Acts of the Apostles....

So, in Acts 2, Peter the Jew, talking to Jews during Pentecost, says..."repent and be water baptized".. and he didnt do that, then, and neither did those in the upper room.

Later, when Paul showed up.....years later, and presented the True Gospel to the Body of Christ as "MY GOSPEL" as Paul defined it 3x in the NT... we have the GOSPEL that Jesus gave to PAUL.
Its the one that WE use, preach, teach.

Its Paul's Gospel...Its "the Gospel of the GRACE of GOD".. and that is.. "The preaching of the CROSS... is the POWER OF GOD, unto SALVATION for everyone who BELIEVES"..

And that is not ...."""everyone who God causes to Believe"""" as LYING CALVINISM, teaches as a man made "doctrine of Devils'....... Hebrews 13:9
 
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Runningman

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It didn't "happen" in Acts 2.

So, you have the " water baptism for JEWS, that the OT.. which is John the Baptist's "repent and be baptized"....

And you have the beginning of the Acts of the Apostles....

So, in Acts 2, Peter the Jew, talking to Jews during Pentecost, says..."repent and be water baptized".. and he didnt do that, then, and neither did those in the upper room.
Sure. In Acts 1, Jesus referred to that as the gift the Father promised. It came from the Father, not Jesus.

Acts 1
4And while they were gathered together, He commanded them: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift the Father promised, which you have heard Me discuss. 5For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”

Later, when Paul showed up.....years later, and presented the True Gospel to the Body of Christ as "MY GOSPEL" as Paul defined it 3x in the NT... we have the GOSPEL that Jesus gave to PAUL.
Its the one that WE use, preach, teach.

Its Paul's Gospel...Its "the Gospel of the GRACE of GOD".. and that is.. "The preaching of the CROSS... is the POWER OF GOD, unto SALVATION for everyone who BELIEVES"..

And that is not ...."""everyone who God causes to Believe"""" as LYING CALVINISM, teaches as a man made "doctrine of Devils'....... Hebrews 13:9
Paul was still preaching the gospel and water baptizing in Acts to people who didn't receive the Holy Spirit upon becoming believers. Often the Biblical examples are the laying on of hands or water baptism. Acts 19:1-5.