Apostle Paul Showed The Antichrist MUST Come First

[Truth7t7]

1 Peter 5:8
8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
KJV

Read your Bible much?

(Davy Quote Post #2)

"the Archangel Michael, will let the "man of sin" loose when Satan with his angels are cast out of the Heavenly dimension, down to earth in OUR earthly dimension, in plain sight."

 

[Davy]

No, I was talking about a strategy for trying to get people to focus on one central argument at a time--not prioritizing which argument is more important than another. And it has nothing to do with seminaries. We've lost the argument completely at this point.

Why can't you recognize what your "focus on one central argument at a time" idea is actually about? It poses a Biblical limitation strategy, clear and simple.

 

[Davy]

(Davy Quote Post #2)

"the Archangel Michael, will let the "man of sin" loose when Satan with his angels are cast out of the Heavenly dimension, down to earth in OUR earthly dimension, in plain sight."

That's right, the war in Heaven between Archangel Michael and his angels vs. Satan and his angels, is WHEN Satan and his angels will be cast OUT of the heavenly dimension, down to earth in OUR dimension...

Rev 12:7-12
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

That war has NOT... happened yet today. It is the timing of Daniel 12:1 at the end when Michael will "stand up", which is then immediately linked to a time of trouble on earth that has never been before, nor ever will be again.

Dan 12:1
12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
KJV

And that Rev.12:8 phrase, "... neither was their place found any more in heaven," is about the two different dimensions of existence, the heavenly vs. the earthly.

The idea of Satan influencing spiritually, like he did behind Peter, is still a working from the 'heavenly' sphere! That Rev.12:8 phrase means Satan and his angels cannot be in the heavenly dimension at all when that happens. And there is ONLY one other place they can go, into OUR earthly dimension, in plain sight.


It's obvious you still don't understand those two different dimensions of existence written of in God's Word, or you would have understood all this Scripture.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

That is NOT in the spiritual sense, that will happen LITERALLY as written there. If you don't understand how Satan and his angels can appear literally here on earth, in OUR earthly dimension, then it you means you REJECT all the Bible Scriptures that points to angels appearing to flesh man on earth, and even Christ appearing to Abraham in the Book of Genesis! And that kind of confusion by you can put what you may teach about Christ in jeopardy!

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
KJV

 

[Truth7t7]

That's right, the war in Heaven between Archangel Michael and his angels vs. Satan and his angels, is WHEN Satan and his angels will be cast OUT of the heavenly dimension, down to earth in OUR dimension...

That war has NOT... happened yet today.

Satan was cast to earth "Long Ago", Jesus Christ upon this earth in the flesh 2,000 years ago stated he watched Satan cast out of heaven "Past Tense", read it again and again

Luke 10:18KJV
18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

Jesus was tempted by Satan upon this earth, Satan doesn't have the keys to heaven going back and forth from God's heaven and this earth as you suggest

Mark 1:13KJV
13 And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Why can't you recognize what your "focus on one central argument at a time" idea is actually about? It poses a Biblical limitation strategy, clear and simple.

I don't recognize my statement as a "Biblical limitation strategy" because it isn't. You're apparently too judgmental to believe I mean what I say, that it's *not* any effort to limit your arguments. I plainly said I agreed with your main point, and wished you liberty on arguing any peripheral points, whether I agreed with them or not.

As I said, it is a very common strategy to ensure that a single strong argument comes across without distraction by shortening the argument to the strongest points. Those who wish not to hear your arguments latch on to peripheral subjects in order to distract away from the main points. Instead of arguing Postrib point #1, #2, and #3, the person, wishing to steer clear of these 3 strong arguments, will pick up on something inserted that is more controversial and off topic.

Those other more peripheral points can become the main point in another place. Then, they can have their own points #1, #2, and #3 that have to be answered unless they have a point #1 a, b, and c. And if point #1c is more problematic, your opponent will then focus on point #1c, and ignore the main, stronger points #1, #2, and #3.

I'm sorry I have to explain this in so much detail. I thought you would get it. But you didn't. Or, you just don't want to believe I actually agree with you on something without trying to tear you down on some minor points?

There's no sense going on with this! I thought your Postrib argument was outstanding and very difficult for anybody to refute. But then you extended the post to the point of losing some, and engaged in other arguments that I find disputable.

So I wished you had just made your main points, which were really strong, and keep your post shorter. Then you could deal with the other points in a separate post, so as to not lose some people who need to hear what you said.

 

[Douggg]

Satan was cast to earth "Long Ago", Jesus Christ upon this earth in the flesh 2,000 years ago stated he watched Satan cast out of heaven "Past Tense", read it again and again

The verse says "fall" from heaven, not "cast" from heaven.

Satan fell from heaven in that verse, Luke 10:18, because of the authority of Jesus over him , as the seventy disciples used Jesus's name as a spiritual force to cast out demons from people possessed. The demons are part of Satan's underlings, spirits, part of the enemy Satan's power, Luke 10:19.

Lightning is from clouds in the earth's atmosphere, indicating that Satan was not in heaven where God's Throne is, nor in the second heaven the cosmos at the time.

When Michael and his angels cast Satan and his angels down to earth from heaven, it referring to the cosmos, i.e. the universe with all the stars, i.e. the second heaven. The earth's atmosphere is the first heaven.

That their place will be found there in the cosmos no more will be because later in the sixth seal the cosmos with part like a scroll rolled up. And the world will look up to third heaven where God's Throne is.

 

[Davy]

Satan was cast to earth "Long Ago", Jesus Christ upon this earth in the flesh 2,000 years ago stated he watched Satan cast out of heaven "Past Tense", read it again and again

Luke 10:18KJV
18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

Jesus was tempted by Satan upon this earth, Satan doesn't have the keys to heaven going back and forth from God's heaven and this earth as you suggest

Mark 1:13KJV
13 And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.

Satan's original 'fall' was about his fall from being a covering cherub protecting God's Throne.

Satan has never... fallen out of the heavenly dimension. So, you've never read Job 1 or Job 2 where Satan appears before God's Throne IN HEAVEN?? Will you LIE, and claim that ain't Satan doing that?

Job 1:6-7
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

7 And the LORD said unto Satan, "Whence comest thou?" Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, "From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it."
KJV

AMAZING... that you have failed to understand that Job Scripture, which was AFTER Satan had already fallen

It reveals that you really do not understand much at all about that OTHER dimension of existence where God and all angels dwell, including Satan and his angels.

That Job Scripture explains just how Satan STILL TODAY is roaming about seeking whom he may devour, like Apostle Peter warned. Satan is NOT yet 'bound', as that won't happen until Jesus returns in our near future.

So yeah... Satan and his angels today are STILL working FROM that other dimension called the heavenly. If he and his angels were not, then it would mean their image and direct visual presence would have to have been manifested in our earthly dimension in plain sight SINCE the time of his original rebellion! You just aren't thinking with the brain God gave you.

 

[Davy]

I don't recognize my statement as a "Biblical limitation strategy" because it isn't. You're apparently too judgmental to believe I mean what I say, that it's *not* any effort to limit your arguments. I plainly said I agreed with your main point, and wished you liberty on arguing any peripheral points, whether I agreed with them or not.

Stick to God's Word as written, not going around in circles with ideas outside The Bible which try to limit understanding in His Word.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Satan's original 'fall' was about his fall from being a covering cherub protecting God's Throne.

False. A doctrine that Satan was a covering cherub protecting God's Throne is not found in Scripture because of an erroneous interpretation of Isaiah 14:12.

Satan has never... fallen out the heavenly dimension. So, you've never read Job 1 or Job 2 where Satan appears before God's Throne IN HEAVEN?? Will you LIE, and claim that ain't Satan doing that?

Job 1:6-7
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

7 And the LORD said unto Satan, "Whence comest thou?" Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, "From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it."
KJV

AMAZING... that you have failed to understand that Job Scripture, which was AFTER Satan had already fallen

Again it's a false interpretation with a vision of Satan walking among angels in heaven. That is NOT what God talked about.

This is a very widely held misconception by much of the church, mainly based on a misunderstanding of Old Testament Scriptures (like this one) and of Revelation chapter 12 referring to cast out angels. I do not believe that Satan was in Holy heaven with God, was commuting from heaven to earth, nor that he ever had come into God's third heaven. Nothing that offends is in the heaven where God dwells, the heaven in view here is the Kingdom of heaven on earth, where God's people dwell. There is no sin in heaven, no hypocrisy, no Liar, no evil in heaven, only praise, glory and worship.

The context of Scriptures is also very important, and the context of this passage is the gathering together of God's people for feasts, communion and offerings unto the Lord for sin.

Job 1:4-5

• "And his sons went and feasted in their houses, every one his day; and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them.
• And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually."

The context is God's people on earth, their days of feasting and Job's faithful sacrifice and offering for sin. And on one of these days, Satan was allowed to come in among them so that Job could be tried, a portrait for all of us.

Job 1:6

• "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them."

The sons of God in Scripture refer to believers (Genesis 6:1; John 1:12; Romans 8:14; 1 John 3:1) who are spiritual children/sons of the Father. not Angels as is often assumed. And most certainly not "fallen Angels."

Deuteronomy 14:1 "Ye are the children of the LORD your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead."

The word translated children is the exact same word translated sons, illustrating God's people are the spiritual sons of God.

Thus by allowing Scripture to interpret Scripture we see these sons of God refers to believers, God's spiritual children on earth, and it is they who come to present themselves before the Lord. The language of "present themselves before the LORD" is also confirming the illustration of their coming for the purpose of sacrifice, offering and forgiveness of sin of the Lord's congregation. It "is" the representation of the Lord's Heaven on earth. It is not an illustration of supernatural Angels or of Satan as a Angel presenting themselves in holy heaven in the presence of God. God says Satan was a Liar from the beginning, and no liar can enter God's Holy Heaven. Moses couldn't even stand before the glory of Holy God on the mountaintop, much less the epitome of evil and the father of lies come to stand where God dwells in all His glory. Allowing Scripture to interpret Scripture we see that the language of "presenting oneself"before God, or [yatsab], is the language of the congregation making obeisance, supplication, oblationand contrition. It doesn't refer to literally standing in Heaven physically facing God. e.g.:

Leviticus 14:11 "And the priest that maketh him clean shall present the man that is to be made clean, and those things, before the LORD, at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation:" 1st Samuel 10:19 "And ye have this day rejected your God, who himself saved you out of all your adversities and your tribulations; and ye have said unto him, Nay, but set a king over us. Now therefore present yourselves before the LORD by your tribes, and by your thousands." Deuteronomy 31:14 "And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thy days approach that thou must die: call Joshua, and present yourselves in the tabernacle of the congregation, that I may give him a charge. And Moses and Joshua went, and presented themselves in the tabernacle of the congregation." Jeremiah 36:7 "It may be they will present their supplication before the LORD, and will return every one from his evil way: for great is the anger and the fury that the LORD hath pronounced against this people."

That is HOW the congregation in the Old Testament presented themselves before the Lord, on earth, and it is not in a literal/physical heaven before God. In God's economy, heaven is often signifying the Lord's congregation "because" it is the Kingdom of heaven on earth. For Example, as we read of Christ the Kingdom of heaven suffered violence until John. It wasn't referring to literal heaven. Or when Michael and His angels fought in heaven, again, not literally angels fighting in God's holy heaven. Likewise, when it says Satan came among them, he is among the congregation!!! This often happens as you can just look at some of the people in God's congregation and the things that they are teaching? It's not hard to understand that Satan comes in as a wolf in sheep's clothing. Didn't the sons of God build a golden calf to worship after being delivered from Egypt? Was that not Satan among them? Satan works within man (Luke 22:3), and he comes among God's people and does his bidding in the body of man (John 13:27). This is mysterious or secretive only in the fact that so many professing believers cannot comprehend this most basic and fundamental truth. He comes preaching love, he comes preaching eccumemism, he comes preaching politics, he comes genealogy, He comes preaching lawlessness under the guise of grace and peace. The list is endless. Satan is revealed in the man of sin, or more to our vernacular, "the sinful man!" Ibn the spirit of his father, the Devil, he always comes in among the sons of God to try and bring them down, but it is really a trial of faith. Like Job, we should fear none of these things that we may suffer, be it tribulation, persecution or hate. If we are faithful unto death, we shall receive a crown of life better than anything this sinful world has to offer.

It reveals that you really do not understand much at all about that OTHER dimension of existence where God and all angels dwell, including Satan and his angels.

It is you who are being deceived with false teaching about exactly who Satan is, where he comes from, and what heaven he walks in.

That Job Scripture explains just how Satan STILL TODAY is roaming about seeking whom he may devour, like Apostle Peter warned.

Yes, as he walks among the sons of God (Belivers) in the New Testament congergation but he was restrained (bound) so that the church can be build.

Satan is NOT yet 'bound', as that won't happen until Jesus returns in our near future.

Satan was bound since the Cross until the building of the church is finished, then he is loosened to silence the testimony of Two Witnesses (Christian with gospel of peace) and it is happening now if you see the spiritual condition of churches today.

So yeah... Satan and his angels today are STILL working FROM that other dimension called the heavenly.

From "other dimension" and "heavenly"? LOL.

If he and his angels were not, then it would mean their image and direct visual presence would have to have been manifested in our earthly dimension in plain sight SINCE the time of his original rebellion! You just aren't thinking with the brain God gave you.

God did not give you the wisdom of Christ, unfortunately.

 

[TribulationSigns]

The verse says "fall" from heaven, not "cast" from heaven.

Again, what heaven is it that the Lord talked about here?

Satan fell from heaven in that verse, Luke 10:18, because of the authority of Jesus over him , as the seventy disciples used Jesus's name as a spiritual force to cast out demons from people possessed. The demons are part of Satan's underlings, spirits, part of the enemy Satan's power, Luke 10:19.

Heaven symbolizes the congregation of Israel on Earth. It was the fall of Old Testament congregation that the seventy men now have power to preach the gospel without resistance. A picture of Christians sent into the world with power with the Holy Spirit to the ends of the world BECAUSE Satan fell/restrained! Selah!

Lightning is from clouds in the earth's atmosphere, indicating that Satan was not in heaven where God's Throne is, nor in the second heaven the cosmos at the time.

Read the context!

Luke 10:16-18

• "He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.
• And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
• And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven."

Instead of being subject to the evil spirit within us, through the Living WORD they preached as its witness by the gospel, those spirits are now subject to us through the power we have in reigning (Revelation 5:10) together with Him as Kings and Priests unto God (Ephesians 2:5-6). These miracles showed Christ’s dominion over the demons (Luke 10:17) and also verified that the disciples were acting in His name and by His authority. This act was a show of God's magnificent salvation plan, just as ALL the other miracles Christ did illustrate.

When Michael and his angels cast Satan and his angels down to earth from heaven, it referring to the cosmos, i.e. the universe with all the stars, i.e. the second heaven. The earth's atmosphere is the first heaven.

You are watching too many Star Wars movies. No. it was not heaven where God is. The heaven is referring to the Kingdom of God ON EARTH where Israel was a representative! This is when Christ has cast Satan out of the fallen Old Testament congregation, and bound him, so He can rebuilt it where His New Testament congregation of Israel, the church, NOW REPRESENTS the kingdom of Heaven!

 

[Douggg]

Satan's original 'fall' was about his fall from being a covering cherub protecting God's Throne.

Davy, I agree with the timing. But I would not say "protecting God's Throne". There was not threat to God's Throne at that time. I think Satan was a leader of music in worshiping God, originally.

Ezekiel 28: 13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Davy, I agree with the timing. But I would not say "protecting God's Throne". There was not threat to God's Throne at that time. I think Satan was in a leader of music in worshiping God, originally.

Purely speculation.

 

[Truth7t7]

The verse says "fall" from heaven, not "cast" from heaven.

Satan fell from heaven in that verse, Luke 10:18, because of the authority of Jesus over him , as the seventy disciples used Jesus's name as a spiritual force to cast out demons from people possessed. The demons are part of Satan's underlings, spirits, part of the enemy Satan's power, Luke 10:19.

Lightning is from clouds in the earth's atmosphere, indicating that Satan was not in heaven where God's Throne is, nor in the second heaven the cosmos at the time.

When Michael and his angels cast Satan and his angels down to earth from heaven, it referring to the cosmos, i.e. the universe with all the stars, i.e. the second heaven. The earth's atmosphere is the first heaven.

That their place will be found there in the cosmos no more will be because later in the sixth seal the cosmos with part like a scroll rolled up. And the world will look up to third heaven where God's Throne is.

I Disagree, Satan was cast out of heaven long ago

 

[Douggg]

I Disagree, Satan was cast out of heaven long ago

Cast out of the third heaven long ago.

Ezekiel 28:16-19 is about Satan being cast down to earth in Revelation 12:7-9, during the middle part of the 7 years, when he will be exposed to the kings of the earth to literally see him.

17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

The question becomes exactly how is that going to happen ? Well, we read a little more in the next verse...

18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

What's that talking about ? Satan is not cast into the lake of fire until after the millennium is over. What it is talking about is that Satan will be indwelling the statue image of the beast-king, that everyone will be required to worship. Jesus when he returns and stands on the Mt. Olives is going to stare down that statue image, and it will go up in flames, and turned to ashes. And there will be Satan, exposed, for everyone to see. Including them, who will have been worshiping the statue image - astonished to find out who they had actually been worshiping.

19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

Satan is going to be terror for that time, times, half times that he will have left after being cast down to earth, having great wrath, Revelation 12:12. But that time comes to a end when Jesus returns and Satan is cast into the bottomless pit prison.

 

[Davy]

False. A doctrine that Satan was a covering cherub protecting God's Throne is not found in Scripture because of an erroneous interpretation of Isaiah 14:12.

You just LIED against God's Word by saying that above. Not only that, but you show you haven't even read the following, because it is NOT found in Isaiah 14...

Ezek 28:13-15
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
KJV

In Ezekiel 28, God uses the title of the flesh "king of Tyrus" as a symbolic title for Lucifer.

The flesh king of Tyrus never was... in God's Garden of Eden! But Satan was! And NO flesh man is a "cherub that covereth", for that is about a Heavenly order being. God shows there it was about Satan before he fell.

Now what Isaiah 14 reveals about Lucifer is how he coveted God's Throne, wanting to be GOD. God uses his own words to mock him.

Again it's a false interpretation with a vision of Satan walking among angels in heaven. That is NOT what God talked about.

Yeah it is about Satan having at one time been exalted in God's Eden as "a cherub that covereth" and then rebelled against God, and those who serve the devil today are the ones most interested in hiding that fact.

 

[Davy]

Again it's a false interpretation with a vision of Satan walking among angels in heaven. That is NOT what God talked about.

Satan HAS NO FLESH BODY, never has and never will. So of course his 'place' is behind a symbolic veil in the heavenly dimension, where ALSO the angels dwell.

All... Christians that I know well understand this. How is it that you do not, especially since it is well shown written in God's Word, like Job 1 & 2??

You sound like a Jew that only believes in the sky around the earth as heaven, which is actually part of the material creation of matter. That would make God Himself as being made up of material matter when Apostle John said "God is a Spirit"!

This is a very widely held misconception by much of the church, mainly based on a misunderstanding of Old Testament Scriptures (like this one) and of Revelation chapter 12 referring to cast out angels. I do not believe that Satan was in Holy heaven with God, was commuting from heaven to earth, nor that he ever had come into God's third heaven. Nothing that offends is in the heaven where God dwells, the heaven in view here is the Kingdom of heaven on earth, where God's people dwell. There is no sin in heaven, no hypocrisy, no Liar, no evil in heaven, only praise, glory and worship.

You are not being honest; just admit it, you don't really believe in that other dimension of existence made of Spirit called Heaven where God's Abode and the angels are, including Satan and his angels. Even what I underlined above reveals your faulty understanding on the matter. It's also thus obvious that you don't believe what Jesus showed in Luke 16 about the two places in the heavenly divided by a great fixed gulf that Lazarus and the rich man were taken to after they died.

The context of Scriptures is also very important, and the context of this passage is the gathering together of God's people for feasts, communion and offerings unto the Lord for sin.

Job 1:4-5

• "And his sons went and feasted in their houses, every one his day; and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them.
• And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually."

The context is God's people on earth, their days of feasting and Job's faithful sacrifice and offering for sin. And on one of these days, Satan was allowed to come in among them so that Job could be tried, a portrait for all of us.

The Job 1:6-12 verses are taking place in HEAVEN at God's Throne! And it's about a conversation between GOD and Satan!

Thus YOU LIED AGAINST THE CONTEXT... of that Job 1:6-12 Scripture!

And that is what YOU are, a LIAR.

 

[Davy]

Davy, I agree with the timing. But I would not say "protecting God's Throne". There was not threat to God's Throne at that time. I think Satan was a leader of music in worshiping God, originally.

You should study the blueprint God gave in Exodus through Moses on building the ark of the covenant. It has 2 covering cherubs on the top of it guarding The Mercy Seat which represents God's Throne.

Ex 25:17-20
17 And thou shalt make a mercy seat of pure gold: two cubits and a half shall be the length thereof, and a cubit and a half the breadth thereof.

18 And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat.

19 And make one cherub on the one end, and the other cherub on the other end: even of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubims on the two ends thereof.

20 And the cherubims shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces shall look one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubims be.
KJV

One of those two "cherubims" originally represented Lucifer before he rebelled.

Ezekiel 28: 13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

Ezek 28:13-15
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
KJV

So... NO... Satan was NOT just some simple leader of music, like the PAGANS teach. (That's where you got that idea; I've heard it before in their literature.)

Satan, or Lucifer in that time when God made him perfect in his ways, was that "anointed cherub that covereth", which means one of the cherubims guarding The Mercy Seat, i.e., God's Throne. Lucifer's sin, which was actually the very first sin ever, that caused his fall... was that he coveted that Mercy Seat (Throne) for himself, wanting to be GOD. This is what God reveals in the Isaiah 14 chapter that Lucifer did to fall.

 

[Davy]

Noting the key word, "revealed."

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition. - 2 Thessalonians 2:3

Revealed - apokalyptō - To take off the cover, i.e. disclose:—reveal.

Or.... Something that will happen very early in his rule.

By 'revealed' Paul simply means the guy shows up for all to see.

And Paul is addressing those in Christ that are 'supposed'... to realize that false one for who he is when he proclaims himself as God in the Jew's new 3rd stone temple they will build in today's Jerusalem, and he will exalt himself over all that is called God, or that is worshiped.

For those in Christ, it's easy to know when that false one comes, that he is a FAKE Christ. Per 1 Cor.15 on the "last trump", those in Christ still alive are to be changed at the twinkling of an eye to the "spiritual body" when Lord Jesus returns. So if we are still in flesh bodies when that "man of sin" is revealed, then it means that ain't Jesus! Easy.

 

[Davy]

The Revelation 12:7-10 Scripture is very easy... to know... that it is NOT about the time of old when Satan first fell.

Rev 12:7-10
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, "Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night."
KJV

After that war with Archangel Michael, Satan and his angel's "place" is no more found in Heaven. Verse 10 also reveals Satan and his angels are then no more ALLOWED IN HEAVEN to ACCUSE God's people at GOD's Throne!

What happened in Job 1 and Job 2, which was a time after Satan had already fell? Satan appeared before God's Throne with God asking him what he'd been up to. And then Satan ACCUSED Job in conversation with God about Job. "Ah... You've got such a hedge around Your servant Job, there's no way I can turn him, but remove Your protection and I'll show You old Job can be turned against You!", Satan pretty much said to God with accusing Job that he would become apostate without God's protection.

Well, the Revelation 12:7-10 event shows Satan being able to ACCUSE us at God's Throne will be no more allowed at that Rev.12:7-9 point of that future war in Heaven, and Satan and his are cast out... of the heavenly.

Thus it is IMPOSSIBLE to apply that Revelation 12:7-12 Scripture back to the time of Satan's original fall.

 

[Davy]

Cast out of the third heaven long ago.

Apostle Paul's idea of a "third heaven" in 2 Cor.12 isn't literally what most think.

There are not 3 Heavens. Genesis 1:1 points only to TWO, the sky atmosphere around the earth as one type of heaven, which points to our material dimension since the sky is made up of material matter also. But the place hidden behind a veil where God and the angels dwell as the other Heaven, is a dimension of Spirit and not material matter.

So what did Paul mean by "third heaven"? It is about the 3 world earth ages that Apostle Peter described in 2 Peter 3.

1. "the world that then was" = 1st world earth age that was just prior to its destruction. God destroyed that 1st world earth age using a flood of water over the whole earth (not Noah's flood) when Satan first rebelled. Genesis 1:1 in the beginning represents God's original PERFECT creation of that 1st world earth age, the creation then was NOT in a state of bondage to corruption. That was when Satan was perfect in his ways following God, until he rebelled in coveting God's Throne. So God ended that old world that was prior to Adam and Eve.

2. "the heavens and the earth, which are now" = today's 2nd world earth age started at Genesis 1:2 forward when God began refurbishing His creation for this 2nd world, and made it in an imperfect state, in bondage of corruption per Paul in Romans 8, ordained to eventually be destroyed by God's consuming fire.

3. "new heavens and a new earth" = God's future world to come with His Eternal Kingdom involving yet another newly refurbished creation. This begins with Christ future return, but will only be completed after Christ's future "thousand years" with all wickedness destroyed in the "lake of fire".


That 3rd world time, the future 3rd world earth age of God's future Kingdom, the "new heavens and a new earth" time, is what Apostle Paul was "caught up" to, and heard words not lawful to utter.