Are Mormons Christians? (Latter Day Saints)

[Jane_Doe22]

Drop your opinions on whether you think Mormons (Latter Day Saints) are Christian or not and why, please keep all debating friendly, thought it would be a fun topic to start and I'm a little in between on the topic and I'd like to hear Christian viewpoints on the matter as Mormons do believe they are Christians.

Actual "Mormon" here.

Yes, Christ is my Lord and Savior, and it is through faith in Him I am saved. Yes, I am 100% a Christian. The Biblical definition of a Christian is a disciple of Christ (Acts 11:26).

I totally acknowledge that other folks have different view points, like requiring someone to subscribe to non-Biblical statements (e.g. Creeds) to count as a "Christian" in their measuring. Frankly, them trying to gatekeep Christ that way doesn't phase me at all.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Can someone explain what Mormon's actually believe?

Ask an actual "Mormon", like myself. While other folks may be well-intended, when this isn't your faith, they are inventively going to get a lot wrong. Some other folks get it super super wrong.


Central tenant: Jesus Christ is the divine Son of God, and salvation comes through faith in Him. Real faith isn't a shallow "yeah I believe" and then continuing the exact same as before, but rather real faith is an entire transformation of yourself to Christ: a rebirth. I dedicate my whole heart, might, mind, and soul to Him. I'm not perfect- I fall down on my face a lot. But He is there as my King to pick me back up and empower me to try again & do better. I owe Him everything, He pulled me from the depths of depression, being the only one whom truly understood what I was going through, and showed me that He loved me, no matter how filthy I felt with all my scars. I love Him so much.

 

[amadeus]

I'm late to the party here (been offline), but happy to chime in!

Good to see you here. I could have answered superficially, but not being a Mormon, I was hoping you might show up to properly defend if you feel led to do so.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

There's a ton of false accusations here (there usually are in these discussions). Rather than go through every posts, I'm just going to go through the content and state the correct facts. I'll then respond to a few posts.

- Jesus Christ is my Savior and King, the very Son of God, and I'm going to scream that from the rooftops!
- Yes, I believe every single word of the Bible, which is God's words.
- I do not believe that God's words are just limited to what's in the Bible though, we have so much to learn! I do believe that there are also books of scripture, and that the cannon is still open: God does still speak to man. He does not change.
-

 

[Jane_Doe22]

The biggest doctrinal conflict Mormonism has with Christianity, is that both Our Heavenly Father as well as Jesus Christ, His only begotten Son, are both created beings that used to be regular human beings that have progressed over time to become a God of our planet, (the Father) and a Jesus is the next human from our planet to get to become a God of His own planet. Also, God the Father presently is not a Spirit, but is flesh and body, and was not Almighty God in eternity past. He had physical, bodily intercourse with Mary to sire the baby Jesus.

As Lorenzo Snow the 5th mormon prophet taught, “As man now is, God once was: As God now is, man may become.” This same teaching continues to modern day, repeated by the 15th Prophet Gordon Hinckley who died in 2008: “Well, as God is, man may become. We believe in eternal progression. Very strongly.”

^This isn't accurate.

Real story: LDS Christians believe that the Father and Son have always existed. The phrase "created being" isn't even part of the LDS Christian vernacular. Mary was a virgin. The Holy Spirit is a personage of spirit only. God the Son has a divine spirit in a (now) glorified body, and the Father is like Him.

The progressing over time part is also inaccurate, but requires more unpacking to go through as it involved deserting the way Creedal Christians define "human".

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Technically speaking tho, theologically, wasn't God man in the flesh as Jesus? When Christians typically believe the holy trinity is all one. I know its a banned discussion on here so I don't want to go into it, but couldnt that be the idea Catholics and Mormons are coming in at?

LDS Christians ("Mormons") believe that Jesus Christ is the 100% divine Son of God. Like Catholics and Protestants.

There are other folks on here (notably Jehovah Witnesses) that deny Christ's divinity.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I found that answer on this site Bible Questions Answered | GotQuestions.org so it may tell you more. But if not I'm certain that there must be other sites which point out the difference.

These sites are laughably inaccurate.

 

[marks]

These sites are laughably inaccurate.

Your own answers seem to be less than forthcoming. You've explained these things to me quite well, should you not explain it to everyone else?

LDS Christians ("Mormons") believe that Jesus Christ is the 100% divine Son of God. Like Catholics and Protestants.

Is your view of Jesus really like the Catholic and Protestant view of Jesus? It seems to me there is a significant difference, to say the least.

Much love!

 

[marks]

The Father, Son, and Spirit are all without beginning nor end.

How does this compare to other spirits, such as us? Were we created by Jesus? Do we have a beginning, or an end?

Much love!

 

[Jane_Doe22]

How does this compare to other spirits, such as us? Were we created by Jesus? Do we have a beginning, or an end?

Much love!

As I mentioned in post #65, LDS Christians view "man" differently than Creedal Christians. Creedal Christians believe that a newborn baby is <1 year old, a "created being". LDS Christians believe that the baby's body is <1 year old, but its spirit is infinitely old (always been). The phrase/idea "created being" simply isn't a part of LDS Christian theology.

Touching one last point: Christ did create the Earth, and hence did create that newborn's body.

 

[JohnDB]

Drop your opinions on whether you think Mormons (Latter Day Saints) are Christian or not and why, please keep all debating friendly, thought it would be a fun topic to start and I'm a little in between on the topic and I'd like to hear Christian viewpoints on the matter as Mormons do believe they are Christians.

The term Christ is the Greek translation of Messiah.
Christian is literally a "little Christ". A term mocking those who follow Jesus as disciples.

Mormons have nothing in common with Jesus except for an elevated sense of morality....that's the extent of the similarities.
Mormons do not have the same emphasis of giving of yourself as Christians do. (Although they have co-opted the name)

Mormons also have a goal of their own planet and being a god themselves one day after populating it with their progeny. Christians have no such goal.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

The term Christ is the Greek translation of Messiah.
Christian is literally a "little Christ". A term mocking those who follow Jesus as disciples.

Mormons have nothing in common with Jesus except for an elevated sense of morality....that's the extent of the similarities.
Mormons do not have the same emphasis of giving of yourself as Christians do. (Although they have co-opted the name)

Mormons also have a goal of their own planet and being a god themselves one day after populating it with their progeny. Christians have no such goal.

Actually I try every single day to be like Jesus Christ. He is my Lord & Savior, whom I love so so dearly and give everything I am and have to. Nothing here about my own self-elevation-- I naturally really suck.

 

[marks]

As I mentioned in post #65, LDS Christians view "man" differently than Creedal Christians. Creedal Christians believe that a newborn baby is <1 year old, a "created being". LDS Christians believe that the baby's body is <1 year old, but its spirit is infinitely old (always been). The phrase/idea "created being" simply isn't a part of LDS Christian theology.

Touching one last point: Christ did create the Earth, and hence did create that newborn's body.

So then all spirits, whether God or man, all have lived forever, and will live forever. Is there any difference between the spirit who is the Father, and the spirit who is Jesus, and a spirit who is a man?

Much love!

 

[Jane_Doe22]

So then all spirits, whether God or man, all have lived forever, and will live forever. Is there any difference between the spirit who is the Father, and the spirit who is Jesus, and a spirit who is a man?

Much love!

Going to state the obvious here: what makes the Father and Son God is not their age. Age shouldn't even be a part of this conversation and it really bothers me when Creedal so focus on it.


What makes Christ God is that He is perfect-- He is always perfectly loving, always perfectly diligent, never wavering, always 100% justice and merciful. etc. Versus I'm a sinner because I screw up-- I choose to be petty, prideful, lazy, and do a bunch of bad stuff. I go against God's perfect ways.

That's the difference. Not when someone's birthday was.

 

[JohnDB]

Actually I try every single day to be like Jesus Christ. He is my Lord & Savior, whom I love so so dearly and give everything I am and have to. Nothing here about my own self-elevation-- I naturally really suck.

I lived in the heart of Mormon country for many years until I could get out. And when I could....I did.

I'm not saying that Mormons are evil....far from it. Some are very moral and great to have in the community. But just like Christians...some are the leeches. (If only we could all get rid of these)

But you missed the nuance of what I was saying about the giving....And that's just where the philosophical/theological differences start.

Mormons are what many consider to be highly legalistic. They may be "liberal" in certain aspects that is not so common in evangelical churches....but overall I'd say they are every bit as legalistic as the 7th Day Adventists are if not more so.

And as far as Apologetics....that's where Mormons have the biggest issues is with one of their "History" books. The Rivers, coins, Landmarks, and cities have never been validated like the Bible has. No archeological record exists whatsoever.
And for any student of ancient literature....that's a MONUMENTAL sized problem. Especially when it comes to "new teachings" concerning lifestyle and how to worship.

I'm not here to debate....but from MY studies going very deep into scriptures...I'm not going to give Mormonism any leeway or faith. Trust but verify. I've seen ancient coins mentioned in scriptures. Seen sandal nails collected from roads...seen Jordan River and Sea of Galilee.

The test of any prophet is 100% accuracy...
Failing that means shunning the "prophet". So Joseph Smith gets shunned by me and his tales of Moroni.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I lived in the heart of Mormon country for many years until I could get out. And when I could....I did.

Utah is... unique. It's a place with a very unique culture, which is different than LDS Christian faith. The nearest thing it resembles is deep-South-Bible-Belt. I have mega problems with Utah culture and will never ever live there.

I'm not saying that Mormons are evil....far from it. Some are very moral and great to have in the community. But just like Christians...some are the leeches. (If only we could all get rid of these)

Sadly leeches exist in every batch of humans.

But you missed the nuance of what I was saying about the giving....And that's just where the philosophical/theological differences start.

Mormons are what many consider to be highly legalistic. They may be "liberal" in certain aspects that is not so common in evangelical churches....but overall I'd say they are every bit as legalistic as the 7th Day Adventists are if not more so.

And as far as Apologetics....that's where Mormons have the biggest issues is with one of their "History" books. The Rivers, coins, Landmarks, and cities have never been validated like the Bible has. No archeological record exists whatsoever.
And for any student of ancient literature....that's a MONUMENTAL sized problem. Especially when it comes to "new teachings" concerning lifestyle and how to worship.

I'm not here to debate....but from MY studies going very deep into scriptures...I'm not going to give Mormonism any leeway or faith. Trust but verify. I've seen ancient coins mentioned in scriptures. Seen sandal nails collected from roads...seen Jordan River and Sea of Galilee.

The test of any prophet is 100% accuracy...
Failing that means shunning the "prophet". So Joseph Smith gets shunned by me and his tales of Moroni.

Needless to say, I got some major disagreements here, but am also not interested in debate. And frankly, folks gatekeeping and saying "you're not Christian" doesn't alter my saving relationship with the Son of God.

 

[marks]

My question was,

Is there any difference between the spirit who is the Father, and the spirit who is Jesus, and a spirit who is a man?

What makes Christ God is that He is perfect-- He is always perfectly loving, always perfectly diligent, never wavering, always 100% justice and merciful. etc. Versus I'm a sinner because I screw up-- I choose to be petty, prideful, lazy, and do a bunch of bad stuff. I go against God's perfect ways.

That's the difference. Not when someone's birthday was.

So then the only difference between Jesus and man is how Jesus acts, not who or what Jesus is. Whether Jesus or Mark or anyone, whomever acts the most God-like is therefore God, not by any ontological reason, but by reason of good behavior.

And the "birthday" objection is irrelevant, because all spirits are eternal, whether we call them God or man.

Much love!

 

[Wrangler]

How does this compare to other spirits, such as us? Were we created by Jesus? Do we have a beginning, or an end?

Much love!

I sense you are setting up a trap with these questions, not asking to learn but as ammo to attack latter.

So then the only difference between Jesus and man is how Jesus acts, not who or what Jesus is. Whether Jesus or Mark or anyone, whomever acts the most God-like is therefore God, not by any ontological reason, but by reason of good behavior

The predictable "so."

 

[Jane_Doe22]

So then the only difference between Jesus and man is how Jesus acts, not who or what Jesus is. Whether Jesus or Mark or anyone, whomever acts the most God-like is therefore God, not by any ontological reason, but by reason of good behavior.

No.

For example: Christ (God) is infinitely loving. God is love. I am not- I get really angry and hateful, especially when folks wrong me.

And the "birthday" objection is irrelevant, because all spirits are eternal, whether we call them God or man.

I only bring that up because I have ran into a lot of Creedal Christians whom that birthdate (or lack thereof) is a big deal on they define "God". And if it wasn't a big deal to them, then we wouldn't have to talk about it and could instead just talk about His Goodness, Love, Mercy, Justice, etc.

 

[marks]

For example: Christ (God) is infinitely loving. God is love. I am not- I get really angry and hateful, especially when folks wrong me.

So Jesus is God because Jesus is infinitely loving, but not because Jesus is a different kind of spirit?

Much love!