Are Mormons Christians? (Latter Day Saints)

[Jane_Doe22]

So Jesus is God because Jesus is infinitely loving, but not because Jesus is a different kind of spirit?

Much love!

I'm going to very direct here: I have met Creedal Christians whom really don't care God being infinitely Loving, Good, Just, Merciful, etc. Doesn't matter to them. Instead to them "God" is all about ontological "species" differences and about humans just ontological suck. Nothing about them being sinner because they choose to sin, they are just intrinsically terrible.

While I totally acknowledge that these folks are still Christians, to me, this theology....really misses a lot--- like you can't skip the centrality of God is love. Nor is God defined by humans being terrible.



Marks, you keep ignoring God being infinitely Loving, Just, Merciful, etc. Do you have any ontological stuff you require a person to recite/believe before you will acknowledge that they do love Christ & are a Christian?

 

[marks]

Instead to them "God" is all about ontological "species" differences and about humans just ontological suck. Nothing about them being sinner because they choose to sin, they are just intrinsically terrible.

So there is no difference between the one we call God and the one we call man, except that the one we call God makes better choices.

This is what I'm hoping others will understand about Mormonism.

That there is a group of spirits, all the same, all eternal. That one of them is most God-like, whom we call God. And one is least God-like, whom we call Satan. And a whole bunch of us in between. No different than "God", no different than "Satan", only, making better or worse choices.

In the Christian belief, we hold God to be infinitely transcendent over all others, He being creator not of things but also all others beside Himself. In the Morman belief, there is no "Creator God" in reference to other spirits (angels, people), as all spirits have always existed and always will exist.

Can these two belief systems truly be the same? It doesn't seem so to me.

Much love!

 

[Jane_Doe22]

So there is no difference between the one we call God and the one we call man, except that the one we call God makes better choices.

Actually, I have listed the difference several times. You are attempting misrepresenting me rather than address real beliefs.

Now please answer my point blank question: Marks, you keep ignoring God being infinitely Loving, Just, Merciful, etc. Are these truly nothing to you? Do require a list of ontological stuff you require a person to recite/believe before you will acknowledge that they do love Christ & are a Christian?

 

[MatthewG]

Drop your opinions on whether you think Mormons (Latter Day Saints) are Christian or not and why, please keep all debating friendly, thought it would be a fun topic to start and I'm a little in between on the topic and I'd like to hear Christian viewpoints on the matter as Mormons do believe they are Christians.

As far I have been aware. Anyone who believes that Yeshua is the one whom God risen him up from the dead, from the heart, regardless…

If they believe God is a man, or Jesus is brothers with Satan… those doctrines are not as important as the death, burial, and resurrection…

There is no new life with no resurrection. And it comes down to, if a person being faithful, in the heart is changed to desire to love God, and to love others, despite the notions of the flesh, and abiding by the Holy Spirit and Spirit of Christ, walking in the spirit.

Not any other doctrines in my opinion matter, especially if it regards anything that deals “you must do this or that to be right with God,” it’s always faith in Jesus, and because of his righteousness make people have peace with Yahweh, whom adopts those who look to him and his Son…

Anyone who deems people non Christians… and they are part of Jehovah Witness or Mormonism, while they can misinform and mislead. They still teach what Paul called the Gospel… which is the power of God unto salvation, through newness of life by dying with Yeshua, burying the old life with him in the grave, and then rising with Yeshua, in being adopted as Gods child…



Misinformed doctrines or misleading doctrines such as you must pay your tithing, you must be at church Wednesday and Sunday, otherwise God is angry with you is a manipulative tactic to get you to fear…

 

[marks]

You are attempting misrepresenting me rather than address real beliefs.

Have I stated something you don't consider to be true?

Now please answer my point blank question: Marks, you keep ignoring God being infinitely Loving, Just, Merciful, etc. Are these truly nothing to you? Do require a list of ontological stuff you require a person to recite/believe before you will acknowledge that they do love Christ & are a Christian?

You are deflecting from my question to you, and I'm not going along with that deflection, I'm continuing to ask you the same question that you seem to not want to answer.

God is infinitely loving, just, merciful, all these things, being fully transcendant over man. Not just a "better spirit", but an entirely transcendant and unique Spirit. Not like men, or angels. God created man, not just their bodies, but their spirits also, while being Himself uncreated.

Is it not true that in Mormon belief, God, Satan, men, angels, are all the same kind of spirit? That "God" is the absolute best of us, and "Satan" is the worst of us, but we are all the same otherwise? You are who I learned this from, won't you be as clear with the others here as you were with me?

Much love!

 

[TheOneHeLoves]

The problem is "Christian" has taken a different definition over time. today most believe a Christian is someone who believes in Jesus of the Bible. But the problem is what they believe and answer to the question "who is Jesus?" will tell you if they are a follower of Christ Jesus.

Is Christ Jesus the one and only Son of God, fully God and full man at the same time, the word made flesh, the perfect sinless one who took the penalty for sin once and for all who will believe in Him, THE WAY, TRUTH AND LIVE, .... I hope you get my point.

Demons believe in God and know Jesus is the Holy one of God yet they don't surrender to Him.

Being a Christian has lost its meaning. Rather be a follower of Christ Jesus.

Mormons and Catholics have incorporated Jesus in their cults but it is about your works and what you will get out of it. There is no fear of God, there is no teaching of dying to self and living for God, there is traditions and self seeking agendas.

I actually think that mormons and catholics are worse than atheists.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Have I stated something you don't consider to be true?

Yes.

Marks, for me the difference between God and a sinner such as myself is that God is infinitely loving, just, merififul, etc, versus I sin, be petty, etc. That is the difference. Yet you keep trying to insulate that there's no difference or that the difference I listed don't matter. This is false. For example: the fact that God is love matters infinitely. Every time you ignore this fact is a huge deal.

You seem to require "Christians" to add a believe a bunch of ontological based differences ("God" is this and "man" is that), going beyond even what the Creeds say. That's why I'm asking specifically about what you believe so that I may address those specific points.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

The problem is "Christian" has taken a different definition over time. today most believe a Christian is someone who believes in Jesus of the Bible. But the problem is what they believe and answer to the question "who is Jesus?" will tell you if they are a follower of Christ Jesus.

Is Christ Jesus the one and only Son of God, fully God and full man at the same time, the word made flesh, the perfect sinless one who took the penalty for sin once and for all who will believe in Him, THE WAY, TRUTH AND LIVE, .... I hope you get my point.

Demons believe in God and know Jesus is the Holy one of God yet they don't surrender to Him.

Being a Christian has lost its meaning. Rather be a follower of Christ Jesus.

Mormons and Catholics have incorporated Jesus in their cults but it is about your works and what you will get out of it. There is no fear of God, there is no teaching of dying to self and living for God, there is traditions and self seeking agendas.

I actually think that mormons and catholics are worse than atheists.

Actual "Mormon" here: if you want to hear about about I love & respect God, please feel free to ask. He is my King and salvation comes only through faith in Him. I ain't working my way to Heaven, though I do try to follow Him out of love (John 14:15).

 

[marks]

Marks, for me the difference between God and a sinner such as myself is that God is infinitely loving, just, merififul, etc, versus I sin, be petty, etc. That is the difference. Yet you keep trying to insulate that there's no difference or that the difference I listed don't matter. This is false. For example: the fact that God is love matters infinitely. Every time you ignore this fact is a huge deal.

I'm not ignoring anything here, but I am asking a specific question which you seem to not want to address.

As I'm understanding what you are saying, ontologically we are all the same, God, man, devil, while qualitatively we are different. God and I, we are the same kind of spirit, both of us having always existed, eternal, only, He loves more than I do, or than anyone else, therefore, He is God and I'm not. But not because He and I are different kinds of beings. Rather that He acts better, loves better.

Is this true or false?

That God is love, this is no insignificant matter. But neither is whether or not God is the same kind of being as is man, and angel, and devil. For me, and I daresay, for Christianity, God is the Creator, Who created all other spirits, and who remains completely transcendant over all other spirits, as is the Creator over His creation.

These are two irreconcileable positions, and cannot as a point of fact be describing the same "God".

Much love!

 

[Jane_Doe22]

As I'm understanding what you are saying, ontologically we are all the same, God, man, devil, while qualitatively we are different. God and I, we are the same kind of spirit, both of us having always existed, eternal, only, He loves more than I do, or than anyone else, therefore, He is God and I'm not. But not because He and I are different kinds of beings. Rather that He acts better, loves better.

Is this true or false?

For me, and I daresay, for Christianity, God is the Creator, Who created all other spirits, and who remains completely transcendant over all other spirits, as is the Creator over His creation.

These are two irreconcileable positions, and cannot as a point of fact be describing the same "God".

Much love!

Marks, you are acting like you the fact that God is infinitely loving doesn't mean squat.

 

[Cassandra]

Mormons believe God has a wife. Why in the world would He need a wife, and where does the Bible speak of it.? NOWHERE.
Blasphemy.

 

[MatthewG]

@TheOneHeLoves,

Hey, I seen your sad reaction at the previous post, Are Mormons Christians? (Latter Day Saints).

The problem is "Christian" has taken a different definition over time. today most believe a Christian is someone who believes in Jesus of the Bible. But the problem is what they believe and answer to the question "who is Jesus?" will tell you if they are a follower of Christ Jesus.

Is Christ Jesus the one and only Son of God, fully God and full man at the same time, the word made flesh, the perfect sinless one who took the penalty for sin once and for all who will believe in Him, THE WAY, TRUTH AND LIVE, .... I hope you get my point.

Demons believe in God and know Jesus is the Holy one of God yet they don't surrender to Him.

Being a Christian has lost its meaning. Rather be a follower of Christ Jesus.

Mormons and Catholics have incorporated Jesus in their cults but it is about your works and what you will get out of it. There is no fear of God, there is no teaching of dying to self and living for God, there is traditions and self seeking agendas.

I actually think that mormons and catholics are worse than atheists.

I think that it is a sad thing. To think Mormons and Catholicss are worst than atheists. Does God love you more than “those people” just because you decide to choose having faith in the Lord Yeshua, whom was risen again?

Organizations of course doesn’t save human beings. What does ? The Gospel of Jesus. The one whom makes people right with Yahweh, despite any… disposition…

Being a murderer, a predator of children, necrophila, murderer of others in the mind, jealousy which leads towards harming others, hatred that can cause a bitter heart…

Sins have been taken away. A person who has a changed heart - towards Yahweh in faith - by his spirit, who have done some bad things in their own flesh, are able to have new life which is spiritual.

And that is why I can say…

There are people who are heart filled believers in the Gospel… be it catholic, Mormon, Jehovah witness…

And there is no way of telling how much the spirit of Christ is in an atheist or a Muslim, or the Jehovah witness or the catholic, or the murderer who once was a hired to kill people as a mercenary , or the person who ended up being born with mental illness and ended up sexual assaulting children, or women who take advantage of young men at school for their own pleasure… who have made a choice to repent (change their mind,) of the previous lifestyle…

Like when Paul put people to death and was changed…

There certain is a lot to think about here in my opinion, contrary to the same old rhetorical claims as though people must know everything in the Bible in order to be made right with God… I never seen that written in the scripture however Jesus does say, that eternal life is founded in knowing the true God, and he wanted people to come to know his Father and himself, Jesus, growing in knowledge of them…

Some people can’t read… so how they gonna understand unless you go verse by verse and then suggest to them to think for themselves about what they hear.

 

[marks]

Marks, you are acting like you the fact that God is infinitely loving doesn't mean squat.

Not so! But you are fully ignoring the point I'm making here.

A single unique being who creates all other beings is not the same "sort" of being as one being who is among many of the same kind of beings, even though distinguished from among the others by certain qualities this being possesses.

That God is loving, this is because He is God, and that is His nature. This is not the same as, "The most loving of us we call 'God'."

God who is creator of all, including all other beings, is not the same as "one who is distinguished from among others of the same kind, none of whom were created."

I maintain these views are not compatible with each other.

Much love!

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Not so! But you are fully ignoring the point I'm making here.

A single unique being who creates all other beings is not the same "sort" of being as one being who is among many of the same kind of beings, even though distinguished from among the others by certain qualities this being possesses.

That God is loving, this is because He is God, and that is His nature. This is not the same as, "The most loving of us we call 'God'."

God who is creator of all, including all other beings, is not the same as "one who is distinguished from among others of the same kind, none of whom were created."

I maintain these views are not compatible with each other.

Much love!

I am out of patience for this.

In my eyes, you keep ignoring the important qualities that make God whom He is: infinitely loving, just, merciful, etc. These are not just how a person "acts" (as you phrase things), but defining characteristics of whom a person is- God is love. Infinite love, not just the "the most". This love is core, very way of being, everything. At every turn you downplay this and keep dismissing it of little importance.

Instead your focus is on special ontology: God is God because He doesn't have a birthday and you do (that second part is critical- God's definition depends on human's definition). And because LDS Christians don't focus on ontology / different views on some points means you decide "Mormons aren't Christian". Seemingly because entrance at the Silvery Gates depends on a person to ace an ontological theology test.

 

[Aunty Jane]

you are acting like you the fact that God is infinitely loving doesn't mean squat.

Are you implying that God’s love is above his justice? Is God going to infinitely forgive those who portray him as the very opposite of what his chosen nation was taught to believe about him? Those who so often were on the receiving end of his anger at their departures from the words and commands of his prophets and his written commands……or as the being his son came to earth to explain to us……he being the image and exact representation of his God and Father? (Col 1:15-17; John 1:18)

When Christ comes as God’s appointed judge, is he going to excuse our failure to comply with the Bible’s explanation of God and his Christ over the words of a self proclaimed prophet?
What will Jesus say to those who claim him as their “Lord” but who fail to comply with his teachings?

John 7:21-23 (ESV)
”Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and drive out demons in your name and perform many miracles in your name?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers.’“

This covers a whole lot of self-proclaimed “Christians”, and there is no indication that these are aware of their status from God’s viewpoint.…only their own.
If John was told to warn us about adding to or subtracting from God’s word, then where is the license to do so? (Rev 22:18-19)

In actual fact there is only one “true Christian faith”…those whom Jesus classifies as “wheat” when he comes to separate us out into the “saved” and “unsaved” “Christians”……

Calling yourself a “Christian” therefore, does not make you one in the eyes of God or his son….which is why all of us need to examine what we believe?…..and more importantly why we believe it……who told us that what we believe is true? And have we proven it to ourselves by careful study of the scriptures, rather than accepting what sounds right, but clearly isn’t, from what that scripture is telling us?

Time is running out…..our decisions will determine our eternal future.

 

[Jack]

Ask an actual "Mormon", like myself. While other folks may be well-intended, when this isn't your faith, they are inventively going to get a lot wrong. Some other folks get it super super wrong.


Central tenant: Jesus Christ is the divine Son of God, and salvation comes through faith in Him. Real faith isn't a shallow "yeah I believe" and then continuing the exact same as before, but rather real faith is an entire transformation of yourself to Christ: a rebirth. I dedicate my whole heart, might, mind, and soul to Him. I'm not perfect- I fall down on my face a lot. But He is there as my King to pick me back up and empower me to try again & do better. I owe Him everything, He pulled me from the depths of depression, being the only one whom truly understood what I was going through, and showed me that He loved me, no matter how filthy I felt with all my scars. I love Him so much.

What's the differences between Mormons and JW's?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

What's the differences between Mormons and JW's?

Pretty much everything is different between those two faiths.

LDS Christians celebrate Jesus as the Son of God, JW deny His divinity and say He’s an angel. LDS Christians and a very hope-filled faith and acknowledge your Protestant/Catholic/whatever relationship with Christ and that you are also a Christian. JW view all non-JW as doomed false believers and are extremely focused on that threat. LDS Christian celebrate family of all kind on this life and being together in the next. JW shun ex members. Etc.

 

[Jack]

Pretty much everything is different between those two faiths.

LDS Christians celebrate Jesus as the Son of God, JW deny His divinity and say He’s an angel. LDS Christians and a very hope-filled faith and acknowledge your Protestant/Catholic/whatever relationship with Christ and that you are also a Christian. JW view all non-JW as doomed false believers and are extremely focused on that threat. LDS Christian celebrate family of all kind on this life and being together in the next. JW shun ex members. Etc.

Thank you!!!

 

[Jack]

Pretty much everything is different between those two faiths.

LDS Christians celebrate Jesus as the Son of God, JW deny His divinity and say He’s an angel. LDS Christians and a very hope-filled faith and acknowledge your Protestant/Catholic/whatever relationship with Christ and that you are also a Christian. JW view all non-JW as doomed false believers and are extremely focused on that threat. LDS Christian celebrate family of all kind on this life and being together in the next. JW shun ex members. Etc.

If you think of more please fill us in. You're very helpful.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

If you think of more please fill us in. You're very helpful.

Literally name any theological or social subject, and it’s different between these two faiths.