By Love Serve One Another

[APAK]

There are several things you said that I can contribute to your confusion and dismay. Here's one of them I chose off your post....

Really, you really said this...."Nothing says here that the righteousness of God is attributed to us...or that we don't retain our own behavioural responsibility."

• Romans 5:17: “For if, because of one man’s trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one Jesus Christ.” (ESV)

Do you need a new set of lenses to see the first part of your response does say it is not by us?

And then you said for this same particular verse, "...or that we don't retain our own behavioural responsibilty," really?! Get over yourself.

I'm sorry this scripture disappoints you. You know scripture is not intended to support all your ridiculous tenets or points and especially not in ONE verse.

Point to scripture that explicitly says we retain (all?. some etc?) of our behavioural responsibilty. And then what do you mean by 'behavioural responsibility' I don't think you really know do you?

//
I can pick apart any and every unscriptural idea of yours, and maybe you might know this already,,,,and it can go one, and on because you will not quit with your nonsense. Stubborn to the end. Never knowing the truth of the word already given to you.
//
Why don't you consider beginning anew, because I think you have yourself confused with your own ideas, and with scripture first. and not last. And to see if your theories stand the test of real faith and truth. Make a thread about it. Even better, I will be a co-author it and base it firmly on scripture and not your theories...fair enough?

 

[Adrift]

A most excellent product, and these numbers then lead to other numbers.......A really great gift idea mate....Bless you for it

You might like this, too.

 

[APAK]

You might like this, too.

View attachment 44661

I love it mate. I do not see we have to buy anything as if we needed to in the first place. And we do not owe anything either!

We have God and his Son to thank for their graces, for our salvation. We have be given faith to believe in the gospel of peace, of God, now we continue to press on, not stopping to admire this miracle that has occurred in our hearts. We place our faith and commitment into continual motion, continually executing the will of God, of spiritual works in Christ.

I pray for me and you, and others, that even though my faith is strong today, it may be even stronger as Paul's, in his last days, to see/experience my crossing over today, where Christ my salvation is there at my finish line to greet me. Well done...to all in Christ. amen

 

[Lizbeth]

Hogwash, and to show my unitarian nature and belief, we have this righteousness of God dwelling within us today. For real! And we sin with our own carnal righteousness, not from God.

However, we do have this perfect righteousness of God within us, by and from the spirit of Christ who dwells within us, Although we can never attain this perfect righteousness of God by our own means as it was necessary that we are imputed this same perfect righteousness. We are righteous as God because we have the real faith in Christ Yahshua who also justifies us to his Father.

Read your Bible and stop theorizing about an imaginary state of your own mind. With again some tabernacle you may have entered into as some sort of protective covering. like a covering of a husband over hos wife. Give me a break! And the same nonsense talk of we still have to enter into Christ when I'm already in Christ. I'm always ABIDING in Christ, as his spirit is transforming me, even now. It cannot be undone, and it's a work in progress. I hope someday you can say you are always abiding in Christ!

And we do not become righteous to the world. Maybe you do, not I. And this is not some work we do to be in eternal life today as in the elusive old Promised land that most Israelites did not believe that God already gave it to them. They lacked Christlike faith, and wanted to work themselves into and for it as you believe and want others to believe in a faith that is self-righteous and sin. Shame on you.

(2Co 5:21) He who knew no sin, he became a sin offering on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in him (JESUS - IN HIS SPIRIT).

And every genuine convert has already now become the righteousness of God dwelling within their own spirit as part of Christ's interwoven perfect spirit today. We are become more Christlike in conforming to his spirit.

Do you possess Christ's spirit within you Epi?

And good luck in your own wilderness walk to gain your own salvation as the Israelites also believed. It was a lost cause for them as I believe it is for you as well.

There again with the concept of the tabernacle Epi is being too literal.

And how can he separate God's righteousness from His spirit? His spirit is His nature (which is pure, righteous, holy, good etc) and it is within the child of God. We are one spirit with Him.

On the one hand we ARE where Jesus is, seated in heavenly places with Him, and on the other hand at the same time we "know the Way to where He is going" so we are also on our way there and are running the race, on the narrow way to get there. Go figure....this can only be perceived and understood by the Holy Spirit , not the carnal mind.. I'm sorry that Epi doesn't get it.

 

[amigo de christo]

Wow!

Talk about mixed postings with bits of good to be found if one has time and searches carefully and a whole lot of accusations. God help me and all of us!

"Oh, I am right", saith one and another in direct opposition also saith, "I am right".and all seem to be saying, "My way or the highway... is the way it must be"!

Where is the Holy Spirit in all of this?

I had thought to add some my own thoughts, even to argue as others have done, but why should anyone listen to me...?

In spite of that, where should one begin? Perhaps with a proper foundation?

Do we not all know that God is right? Why is it so necessary that each of us be so completely right when we are certainly less than God? Is any one of us His specially anointed being and knowing the Truth even as Jesus did?

Consider this as a beginning for a proper foundation...

Heb 6:1	Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2	Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Heb 6:3	And this will we do, if God permit

Who is ready to move forward having already laid the foundation:

1) of repentance from dead works,
2) of faith toward God
3) of the doctrine of baptisms,
4) of laying on of hands,
5) of the resurrection of the dead,
6) and of eternal judgment.

So now then if we have accomplished all of these things as a foundation are we ready to go on to the perfection Jesus has asked of us?

Mt 5:48

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

But, of course, if everyone here is already right and comfortable where they are... they must know all of these things as God knows them. They must be ready then to go on to perfection. [Or... are any already there... at perfection?) If they do not know all of these things as God does, why are they so certain they are right on every point on this thread? Has anyone missed the lead of the Holy Spirit? Oh, of course, it must be the other fellow!

Consider again how much each of us has been given by God. Enough to go on to the perfection which is asked of us? If not, why not? "Much is given... much is required".

Jer 10:23

O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

Who is it that should be directing us? If all are being led by the Holy Spirit, why is there a problem? What would Jesus do? Where is humility? Again... help us dear Lord!

I want to remind us of something . So as we understand a bit more clearly as to why some of us expose
dangerous doctrines and dangerous folks .
And its LOVE to do so . And its right in the sight of GOD to do so .
IN fact when i remind us of this we gonna see that not correcting and allowing it
was indeed angering God big time .
I have this against you , YOU ALLOW . take heed that says allow , to suffer , to allow .
YOU allow that false prophetess to teach and to seduce MY people .
WELL if one is bringing another gospel , by all means necessary shall i expose both them and their doctrine .
I do as i do , not because i hate but IN TRUTH because i love . NOW epi is very dangerous . I understand
that most folks cannot see just how deadly and dangerous he is and his gospel . BUT I Can see it and i must
expose both it and him . I cannot overlook what i know or who i know is a great danger to the people . I JUST cannot do it .
NOr should I . not according to GOD . lets ponder on that for a while . ACCORDING TO GOD
HE was quite angry at some of them who were ALLOWING a false one to teach and to seduce the church . Lets think on that for a while .

 

[amigo de christo]

It must be this way. A dogmatic ideology is meant to resist the truth. The truth is living. The ideologies are dead. Darkness cannot comprehend the light. Ideologies cannot comprehend the truth.

The deadness of the letter is what many put their trust in...assuming that by reading it...they have it. But the newness of the Spirit is too far out there...as if there is such a thing that is higher than themselves or their present understanding.

I said YE shall die in your sins . for if you BELIEVE NOT , that i AM HE , THE CHRIST
ye shall die in your sins .
all who are not with me are against me . sounds pretty darn dogmatic to me my friend .
You preach a false gospel and i dont care if i get banned or not , i am gonna expose it .
you have zero desire to preach the dire need to beleive on Christ .
i teach both the dire need to beleive and to heed him . you leave this people in darkness
giving out a false belief . Whatever happened to you i do not know .
But you have COME OUT from amongst the true gospel . that i do know . the social inclusive gospel IS FALSE epi .
just as is oprah wimphrey who you have agreed with in another post i wrote long ago .
You all have no idea the danger you are in . YOU should have kept it simple .
PREACHED BOTH THE DIRE NEED TO BELEIVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST and reminded all to pick up the cross .
YOU preach an idea that non beleivers can pick up their cross . You and i both know
you beleive in what is known as inclusvism . it leads to the second death my friend .
No man can save himself outside of FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST . and no matter how often the muslims
and other religoins try and claim to have faith in GOD . THEY DO NOT
for had they had faith in GOD they would have BELEIVED ON and had FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST .
For people like me our time is about up in this false love world and its religoin .
And you all will cheer as more and more go under your inclusive umbrella , thinking you all
do the will of GOD .
AND YET the will of GOD was THAT WE BELEIVED ON JESUS CHRIST WHOM HE DID SEND . and you WONT preach that .
I am so sorry for you epi . you cannot save yourself nor anyone you preach your faith too .

 

[amigo de christo]

 

[amigo de christo]

You might like this, too.

View attachment 44661

IF we take notice , he who first wrote romans six twenty three
and every other letter written by every apostel
they all also knew the DIRE NEED TO HAVE TO BELEIVE ON THIS JESUS CHRIST .
SO the question is and the reminder is
what occurs to those who refuse to believe on JESUS as the CHRIST . DAMANATION awaits them all .
AND JESUS made it very clear DAMNATION awaited all who refused to beleive on HIM .
SO remember this the next time pope francis or anyone else tries and preach another gospel

 

[Marvelloustime]

IF we take notice , he who first wrote romans six twenty three
and every other letter written by every apostel
they all also knew the DIRE NEED TO HAVE TO BELEIVE ON THIS JESUS CHRIST .
SO the question is and the reminder is
what occurs to those who refuse to believe on JESUS as the CHRIST . DAMANATION awaits them all .
AND JESUS made it very clear DAMNATION awaited all who refused to beleive on HIM .
SO remember this the next time pope francis or anyone else tries and preach another gospel

 

[Marvelloustime]

I said YE shall die in your sins . for if you BELIEVE NOT , that i AM HE , THE CHRIST
ye shall die in your sins .
all who are not with me are against me . sounds pretty darn dogmatic to me my friend .
You preach a false gospel and i dont care if i get banned or not , i am gonna expose it .
you have zero desire to preach the dire need to beleive on Christ .
i teach both the dire need to beleive and to heed him . you leave this people in darkness
giving out a false belief . Whatever happened to you i do not know .
But you have COME OUT from amongst the true gospel . that i do know . the social inclusive gospel IS FALSE epi .
just as is oprah wimphrey who you have agreed with in another post i wrote long ago .
You all have no idea the danger you are in . YOU should have kept it simple .
PREACHED BOTH THE DIRE NEED TO BELEIVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST and reminded all to pick up the cross .
YOU preach an idea that non beleivers can pick up their cross . You and i both know
you beleive in what is known as inclusvism . it leads to the second death my friend .
No man can save himself outside of FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST . and no matter how often the muslims
and other religoins try and claim to have faith in GOD . THEY DO NOT
for had they had faith in GOD they would have BELEIVED ON and had FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST .
For people like me our time is about up in this false love world and its religoin .
And you all will cheer as more and more go under your inclusive umbrella , thinking you all
do the will of GOD .
AND YET the will of GOD was THAT WE BELEIVED ON JESUS CHRIST WHOM HE DID SEND . and you WONT preach that .
I am so sorry for you epi . you cannot save yourself nor anyone you preach your faith too .

 

[APAK]

There again with the concept of the tabernacle Epi is being too literal.

And how can he separate God's righteousness from His spirit? His spirit is His nature (which is pure, righteous, holy, good etc) and it is within the child of God. We are one spirit with Him.

On the one hand we ARE where Jesus is, seated in heavenly places with Him, and on the other hand at the same time we "know the Way to where He is going" so we are also on our way there and are running the race, on the narrow way to get there. Go figure....this can only be perceived and understood by the Holy Spirit , not the carnal mind.. I'm sorry that Epi doesn't get it.

Yeah I wish he would for a spell take timeout and readdress scripture first, with fresh eyes, and then see what he believes really fits....

 

[Lizbeth]

We only become the righteousness of God to the world as we enter INTO Christ to abide with Him WHERE He is.

We can serve God on the righteousness level if not the holiness level.

Whose righteousness is the "righteousness level", our own or God's? Well, let's look at that "righteousness level" which you claim is our own righteousness just like Israel's was.....and even teach is no different than the unsaved person's own righteousness which you claim can save them.. I hope but doubt you will read the following scriptures, much less reply to them, but I'll post them anyway for all our benefit. I find them edifying at least. They couldnt' be more clear and slam-dunk contradict your ideas on righteousness, as do many scripts that others are bringing and talking about as well.

Rom 10:3-4

For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness TO EVERY ONE THAT BELIEVETH.



Rom 10:6-11

But THE RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH IS OF FAITH speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above) ;

Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

FOR WITH THE HEART MAN BELIEVETH UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.



Rom 9:30-33

What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even THE RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH IS OF FAITH.

But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

 

[APAK]

Whose righteousness is the "righteousness level", our own or God's? Well, let's look at that "righteousness level" which you claim is our own righteousness just like Israel's was.....and even teach is no different than the unsaved person's own righteousness which you claim can save them.. I hope but doubt you will read the following scriptures, much less reply to them, but I'll post them anyway for all our benefit. I find them edifying at least. They couldnt' be more clear and slam-dunk contradict your ideas on righteousness, as do many scripts that others are bringing and talking about as well.

Rom 10:3-4

For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness TO EVERY ONE THAT BELIEVETH.



Rom 10:6-11

But THE RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH IS OF FAITH speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above) ;

Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

FOR WITH THE HEART MAN BELIEVETH UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.



Rom 9:30-33

What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even THE RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH IS OF FAITH.

But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Yes, Romans 9 and 10 are very powerful areas of scripture speaking to the righteousness of God within us by faith...many try to attain God's righteousness still, by imposing their own righteousness that leads to death.

They just cannot believe that a gift of His righteousness is really a gift. They feel a need to try and justify themselves before God, in pleasing God by doing their own righteousness that does not please God at all.

 

[Episkopos]

Whose righteousness is the "righteousness level", our own or God's? Well, let's look at that "righteousness level" which you claim is our own righteousness just like Israel's was.....and even teach is no different than the unsaved person's own righteousness which you claim can save them.. I hope but doubt you will read the following scriptures, much less reply to them, but I'll post them anyway for all our benefit. I find them edifying at least. They couldnt' be more clear and slam-dunk contradict your ideas on righteousness, as do many scripts that others are bringing and talking about as well.

Rom 10:3-4

For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

A righteous person IS submitted to God's righteousness...by the fear of the Lord. That's why we are to fear the Lord. Otherwise even those who claim to be believers are NOT submitting themselves to a higher righteousness than their own. The irony is missed on so many. But what undergirds the righteous COVERING of God...is the righteousness of saints. The white robes of the saints is NOT the righteousness of God.

This will blow your doctrinal scheme out of the water.

"And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints." Rev. 19:8

For your scheme to work it would have to read the fine linen is the righteousness of Christ. But we are all responsible for our walks...always. Without a proper attitude we can't walk with God. That attitude is a righteous one. You are simply not understanding righteousness.

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness TO EVERY ONE THAT BELIEVETH.

Faith takes us into the realm of God's righteous covering...in this life...covered by His life...so that we obey the law at its most fundamental...and spiritual level. Again, this is the higher walk in ZOE life...not soul life...but spiritual and eternal life. That's what justifies a believer. Unless we give up the power of our soul life... psuche life... we may not be submitted to a higher righteousness than our own...namely God's. We need to fear the Lord and embrace humility..as I have said many times.

Rom 10:6-11

But THE RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH IS OF FAITH speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above) ;

Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

FOR WITH THE HEART MAN BELIEVETH UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Yes...all who believe into Jesus will be saved...from sin the world and the devil. Confession is made on the righteousness level for salvation. But saved to what? Many will say...Lord Lord.....and claim things they should not...as they are lies...so they will be cast out. The MEEK inherit the earth...the religiously indoctrinated...not so much...UNLESS these repent and embrace humility and the fear of the Lord...thus at least SUBMITTING themselves to God's righteous judgments.

Rom 9:30-33

What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even THE RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH IS OF FAITH.

But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

Paul is arguing the righteousness of the law...by human effort...against the grace of God that fulfills the law. So then those who have entered INTO Christ have leaped over the most righteous of the Jews. The law of the Spirit is far superior than any human effort. Grace EMPOWERS us to walk as Jesus walked. Those who are under grace far outstrip those that walk in their own strength. Even John the Baptist...the most righteous man is surpassed by the least among those in the higher walk. Holiness trumps righteousness.

Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

The stumbling stone is for we Christians too. For BOTH houses of Israel. They didn't accept it...and neither do we (collectively). We are NO different than them...in spite of all the prejudice witnessed here.

“And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.” Is. 8:14

There is a double edge to the word. We need to be careful with BOTH edges..the righteous edge of OUR walk and the obedience to the gospel into the higher HOLINESS walk.

People can balk...but that is the nature of God's word. There's more than one aspect. The truth doesn't change.

 

[amadeus]

It must be this way. A dogmatic ideology is meant to resist the truth. The truth is living. The ideologies are dead. Darkness cannot comprehend the light. Ideologies cannot comprehend the truth.

The deadness of the letter is what many put their trust in...assuming that by reading it...they have it. But the newness of the Spirit is too far out there...as if there is no such a thing as a walk that is higher than themselves or their present understanding.

It may be like climbing up to a comfortable plateau when there is the peak up higher still. Stopping before the end of our course.

 

[amadeus]

I want to remind us of something . So as we understand a bit more clearly as to why some of us expose
dangerous doctrines and dangerous folks .
And its LOVE to do so . And its right in the sight of GOD to do so .
IN fact when i remind us of this we gonna see that not correcting and allowing it
was indeed angering God big time .
I have this against you , YOU ALLOW . take heed that says allow , to suffer , to allow .
YOU allow that false prophetess to teach and to seduce MY people .
WELL if one is bringing another gospel , by all means necessary shall i expose both them and their doctrine .
I do as i do , not because i hate but IN TRUTH because i love . NOW epi is very dangerous . I understand
that most folks cannot see just how deadly and dangerous he is and his gospel . BUT I Can see it and i must
expose both it and him . I cannot overlook what i know or who i know is a great danger to the people . I JUST cannot do it .
NOr should I . not according to GOD . lets ponder on that for a while . ACCORDING TO GOD
HE was quite angry at some of them who were ALLOWING a false one to teach and to seduce the church . Lets think on that for a while .

Because he is different than you, must he be in error? Jesus was different from all of us and he was increasing. Are we all decreasing so that he can increase in us?

Lu 1:80

And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, and was in the deserts till the day of his showing unto Israel.

Joh 3:30

He must increase, but I must decrease

 

[amadeus]

It must be this way. A dogmatic ideology is meant to resist the truth. The truth is living. The ideologies are dead. Darkness cannot comprehend the light. Ideologies cannot comprehend the truth.

2co 3:6

[God] Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

The deadness of the letter is what many put their trust in...assuming that by reading it...they have it. But the newness of the Spirit is too far out there...as if there is no such a thing as a walk that is higher than themselves or their present understanding.

We are certainly not able ministers simply because we have read and even studied the Scriptures. The apostle Paul had read and studied the scriptures under Gamaliel and he was dead set against the followers of Jesus... until he actually met him and was given eyes to see.

Ac 9:17	And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
Ac 9:18	And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

 

[Episkopos]

2co 3:6

[God] Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

We are certainly not able ministers simply because we have read and even studied the Scriptures. The apostle Paul had read and studied the scriptures under Gamaliel and he was dead set against the followers of Jesus... until he actually met him and was given eyes to see.

Ac 9:17	And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
Ac 9:18	And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

What I see is that people rely on the "deadness of the letter" thinking that certain bible verses (misunderstood) bring salvation by accepting them as true for oneself. Paul wasn't writing about what he read...but what he experienced. We are likewise to experience the same things. Turning a testimony into a dogmatic ideology is wrong...Paul would condemn it as "another gospel." It is the Spirit that gives life. The letter kills...even as one considers verses to have a magical quality that justifies people by just accepting them.

 

[Lizbeth]

A righteous person IS submitted to God's righteousness...by the fear of the Lord. That's why we are to fear the Lord. Otherwise even those who claim to be believers are NOT submitting themselves to a higher righteousness than their own. The irony is missed on so many. But what undergirds the righteous COVERING of God...is the righteousness of saints. The white robes of the saints is NOT the righteousness of God.

This will blow your doctrinal scheme out of the water.

"And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints." Rev. 19:8

For your scheme to work it would have to read the fine linen is the righteousness of Christ. But we are all responsible for our walks...always. Without a proper attitude we can't walk with God. That attitude is a righteous one. You are simply not understanding righteousness.


Faith takes us into the realm of God's righteous covering...in this life...covered by His life...so that we obey the law at its most fundamental...and spiritual level. Again, this is the higher walk in ZOE life...not soul life...but spiritual and eternal life. That's what justifies a believer. Unless we give up the power of our soul life... psuche life... we may not be submitted to a higher righteousness than our own...namely God's. We need to fear the Lord and embrace humility..as I have said many times.




Yes...all who believe into Jesus will be saved...from sin the world and the devil. Confession is made on the righteousness level for salvation. But saved to what? Many will say...Lord Lord.....and claim things they should not...as they are lies...so they will be cast out. The MEEK inherit the earth...the religiously indoctrinated...not so much...UNLESS these repent and embrace humility and the fear of the Lord...thus at least SUBMITTING themselves to God's righteous judgments.

Paul is arguing the righteousness of the law...by human effort...against the grace of God that fulfills the law. So then those who have entered INTO Christ have leaped over the most righteous of the Jews. The law of the Spirit is far superior than any human effort. Grace EMPOWERS us to walk as Jesus walked. Those who are under grace far outstrip those that walk in their own strength. Even John the Baptist...the most righteous man is surpassed by the least among those in the higher walk. Holiness trumps righteousness.


The stumbling stone is for we Christians too. For BOTH houses of Israel. They didn't accept it...and neither do we (collectively). We are NO different than them...in spite of all the prejudice witnessed here.

“And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.” Is. 8:14

There is a double edge to the word. We need to be careful with BOTH edges..the righteous edge of OUR walk and the obedience to the gospel into the higher HOLINESS walk.

People can balk...but that is the nature of God's word. There's more than one aspect. The truth doesn't change.

Those scriptures are shouting from the rooftops, simply and clearly, that THE RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH IS OF FAITH....is to ALL BELIEVERS period, Episkopos....all who believe in their heart and confess with their mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord. All those who are born again.

Yes, it matters how we walk, I certainly agree..........and walking righteously comes from His spirit within, when we submit to Him.....it is His righteousness not of our own. Should we steal His glory and boast in our own righteousness?

Don't know how born again children of God are stumbling over the stumbling stone, when we have received Him and He is the cornerstone that has been solidly and firmly installed in our hearts.

 

[Lizbeth]

What I see is that people rely on the "deadness of the letter" thinking that certain bible verses (misunderstood) bring salvation by accepting them as true for oneself. Paul wasn't writing about what he read...but what he experienced. We are likewise to experience the same things. Turning a testimony into a dogmatic ideology is wrong...Paul would condemn it as "another gospel." It is the Spirit that gives life. The letter kills...even as one considers verses to have a magical quality that justifies people by just accepting them.

I'm afraid dead letter and dogmatic ideology are on your part, Epi. We can only understand the truth of what Christ has wrought for us by the Spirit. And to Him be all glory and praise.