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Episkopos

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No problem with holiness. But to deny the gospel...which includes what Jesus has wrought in the heart of the born again believer and imputes to us as His children and heirs, even while we endeavour to apprehend and grow up into it all in real time......has to be a false gospel.
This is wrong thinking. First, you have said you have no problem with fear and holiness. Very superficial assessment. And that's the problem...you think that anything of a more demanding nature than what you can afford has to be false. So for you, it is false. The reality is that you are not more committed to the truth than what you already are...so anything more is unaffordable. We see that a lot.

We are to strive to enter in through the narrow door...and many will try and fail. That doesn't make it false...that proves that the real gospel doesn't have to cut corners to appeal to people in their mixed state. You maybe WANT it to be false..but the true gospel is based on God's word which is like a double edged sword.
 

Lizbeth

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This is wrong thinking. First, you have said you have no problem with fear and holiness. Very superficial assessment. And that's the problem...you think that anything of a more demanding nature than what you can afford has to be false. So for you, it is false. The reality is that you are not more committed to the truth than what you already are...so anything more is unaffordable. We see that a lot.

We are to strive to enter in through the narrow door...and many will try and fail. That doesn't make it false...that proves that the real gospel doesn't have to cut corners to appeal to people in their mixed state. You maybe WANT it to be false..but the true gospel is based on God's word which is like a double edged sword.
It's kind of you to try and tell me what I'm thinking......but as usual you are shooting wide. Oh well.
 
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amigo de christo

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So then what do his words tell you about his motives?

Much love!
Sie delusion of the inclusion . Never fall for it either mark . never let its love take you into its web .
For many a soul does it lead captive to a lie . a strong delusion meant to unify ALL NOT in the lambs book of life .
ITS been unleashed upon this world . One who appears as a lamb and yet speakes as a dragon is at work .
And many have bought its cup of love . NOT gonna bode well for them on the DAY of the LORD either .
 

marks

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Care to address the the topic?
You need to have love for others before you can really begin to serve them. When someone shows themself to be unloving of others, it belies their claims to serve.

How deep into this did you want to go?

You can make a show, and you might "fool some of the people some of the time", but the mature will see through it. Making a show of serving others without any real love for others mostly just serves to fool yourself. God isn't fooled, that's certain!

And the reality is that you can hate a man, but still give him food, and having food, he can eat. But that's not what we're talking about here, is it?

I don't perceive you to be an honest man, nor do I perceive sincerity in your posts. I've searched for that for years, but your pattern has been very consistent. And when someone shows you who they are . . . believe it, that's best.

I continue to hope for good for you, but as the years go by, well, just to remember, with God, all things are possible.

Much love!
 
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Episkopos

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You need to have love for others before you can really begin to serve them. When someone shows themself to be unloving of others, it belies their claims to serve.

How deep into this did you want to go?

You can make a show, and you might "fool some of the people some of the time", but the mature will see through it. Making a show of serving others without any real love for others mostly just serves to fool yourself. God isn't fooled, that's certain!

And the reality is that you can hate a man, but still give him food, and having food, he can eat. But that's not what we're talking about here, is it?

I don't perceive you to be an honest man, nor do I perceive sincerity in your posts. I've searched for that for years, but your pattern has been very consistent. And when someone shows you who they are . . . believe it, that's best.

I continue to hope for good for you, but as the years go by, well, just to remember, with God, all things are possible.

Much love!
LOL Right back at you.....more of the same. :rolleyes:
 
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APAK

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It's kind of you to try and tell me what I'm thinking......but as usual you are shooting wide. Oh well.
@Lizbeth ....Epi is a lousy shot anyway and misses the target, every time. when the truth is hitting him in the face.

So, Epi is again bringing out another one of his favorite whips to you as he did to me, of striving to go through the narrow door/gate again. And he thinks we have not yet made it, and we then need his help, to listen to his erratic gospel and to heed his warning if we do not. This type of false thinking, overactive and premature judgment on his part, will be his undoing. He needs to take great care to know he himself has gone through salvation's door first.

Being as he is, so hyper and lost in focus and sight of the true gospel, does he know why 'the door' is called narrow, of a simple explanation?. And forgotten why, who and when Christ spoke these words.

His way of striving and successfully going through this very small door is to jump into hyperspace, into the Kingdom that only a few is privileged to experience, and he is one. There are many genuine believers who has lived in this glorious peace of this high realm as. He should be very thankful he has experienced such peace, as this is most probably true.

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Luke 13:22-30 Entering through the narrow door

22 He went on his way through towns and villages, teaching and journeying toward Jerusalem. 23 And someone said to him, “Lord, will those who are saved be few?” And he said to them, 24 “Strive to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25 When once the master of the house has risen and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, open to us,’ then he will answer you, ‘I do not know where you come from.’ 26 Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our streets.’ 27 But he will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you come from. Depart from me, all you workers of evil!’ 28 In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God but you yourselves cast out. 29 And people will come from east and west, and from north and south, and recline at table in the kingdom of God. 30 And behold, some are last who will be first, and some are first who will be last.”

--------------------------------​

First the audience: local Judahites not modern day folks..

They assumed they were automatically shoe-ins for the Kingdom of God because of their genealogy, ancestry and their unique connection to Abraham and God. And also, many of them ate and drank with Yahshua. We are 'in like flint' they thought. Many thought that the Kingdom of salvation was of a physical nature, not spiritual. They wanted an invincible King to repel their enemies.

Yes, they were physically related to Yahshua in various ways, although not in a spiritual way.

This was the reason for the conversation that Yahshua had with Nicodemeus..John3:3 It is the Spirit of God that brings one through the narrow door, to possess Christ, his spirit. There is NO other way.

The Judahites were still under the law, they were proud people, sinful, not very humble, and above all, unrepenting of their sins. This was their spiritual report card like most people in the same world today.

The door to salvation was Jesus himself, speaking right at them. God made the symbolic door 'narrow' by design. As there is no other name under heaven to bring salvation. It was the name of the Son of God. Only ONE NAME the one person called Jesus/Yahshua. Most did not get it as many today, even in some Christian circles. It is a narrow door because there are not numerous ways to salvation, only ONE.

Then, as today, people who search for spirituality in themselves and outside of themselves can find hundreds of ways to their version and false salvation.

In the common carnal natural inner man state of heart it is impossible to find the right door without the influence of God's spirit knocking on it, period. If they never had this holy miraculous experience, they then are seeking their salvation door using the wide road.

They use the common natural WIDE road that leads to many doors of false salvation, not to the narrow path and door of true salvation.

They will of course try and make a very good effort to strive to get through to what they think is the narrow door, only to find their own salvation, as it will not be the 'right' door however. Christ will not be it. They will try in earnest, and not be able to get in. Verse 24b...For many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. They will bring in their sinful nature, unrepentant of their sins, lacking humility and full of pride. They refuse or reject the gospel of peace, salvation in the Kingdom.

And for professing Christians today, the main reason why they will strive and never get on the right path to the narrow door is because they have been led astray by zealous false teachers preaching a wrong Christ and a wrong gospel. Beware!

If one knows they possess the Son's spirit, given by the Father who also demonstrates real fruits of the spirit with dynamic and strong faith, then they have already arrived, through the narrow door called Jesus the Christ. We are humble, thankful and repentant of our sins and hate the sight of them like a destructive plague...amen

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Lizbeth

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lol.
@Lizbeth ....Epi is a lousy shot anyway and misses the target, every time. when the truth is hitting him in the face.

So, Epi is again bringing out another one of his favorite whips to you as he did to me, of striving to go through the narrow door/gate again. And he thinks we have not yet made it, and we then need his help, to listen to his erratic gospel and to heed his warning if we do not. This type of false thinking, overactive and premature judgment on his part, will be his undoing. He needs to take great care to know he himself has gone through salvation's door first.

Being as he is, so hyper and lost in focus and sight of the true gospel, does he know why 'the door' is called narrow, of a simple explanation?. And forgotten why, who and when Christ spoke these words.

His way of striving and successfully going through this very small door is to jump into hyperspace, into the Kingdom that only a few is privileged to experience, and he is one. There are many genuine believers who has lived in this glorious peace of this high realm that he. He should be very thankful he has experience such peace, as this is most probably true.

---------------------------------------
Luke 13:22-30 Entering through the narrow door

22 He went on his way through towns and villages, teaching and journeying toward Jerusalem. 23 And someone said to him, “Lord, will those who are saved be few?” And he said to them, 24 “Strive to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25 When once the master of the house has risen and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, open to us,’ then he will answer you, ‘I do not know where you come from.’ 26 Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our streets.’ 27 But he will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you come from. Depart from me, all you workers of evil!’ 28 In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God but you yourselves cast out. 29 And people will come from east and west, and from north and south, and recline at table in the kingdom of God. 30 And behold, some are last who will be first, and some are first who will be last.”

--------------------------------​

First the audience: local Judahites not modern day folks..

They assumed they were automatically shoe-ins for the Kingdom of God because of their genealogy, ancestry and their unique connection to Abraham and God. And also, many of them ate and drank with Yahshua. We are 'in like flint' they thought. Many thought that the Kingdom of salvation was of a physical nature, not spiritual. They wanted an invincible King to repel their enemies.

Yes, they were physically related to Yahshua in various ways, although not in a spiritual way.

This was the reason for the conversation that Yahshua had with Nicodemeus..John3:3 It is the Spirit of God that brings one through the narrow door, to possess Christ, his spirit. There is NO other way.

The Judahites were still under the law, they were proud people, sinful, not very humble, and above all, unrepenting of their sins. This was their spiritual report card like most people in the same world today.

The door to salvation was Jesus himself, speaking right at them. God made the symbolic door 'narrow' by design. As there is no other name under heaven to bring salvation. It was the name of the Son of God. Only ONE NAME the one person called Jesus/Yahshua. Most did not get it as many today, even in some Christian circles. It is a narrow door because there are not numerous ways to salvation, only ONE.

Then, as today, people who search for spirituality in themselves and outside of themselves can find hundreds of ways to their version and false salvation.

In the common carnal natural inner man state of heart it is impossible to find the right door without the influence of God's spirit knocking on it, period. If they never had this holy miraculous experience, they then are seeking their salvation door using the wide road.

They use the common natural WIDE road that leads to many doors of false salvation, not to the narrow path and door of true salvation.

They will of course try and make a very good effort to strive to get through to what they think is the narrow door, only to find their own salvation, as it will not be the 'right' door however. Christ will not be it. They will try in earnest, and not be able to get in. Verse 24b...For many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. They will bring in their sinful nature, unrepentant of their sins, lacking humility and full of pride. They refuse or reject the gospel of peace, salvation in the Kingdom.

And for professing Christians today, the main reason why they will strive and never get on the right path to the narrow door is because they have been led astray by zealous false teachers preaching a wrong Christ and a wrong gospel. Beware!

If one knows they possess the Son's spirit, given by the Father who also demonstrates real fruits of the spirit with dynamic and strong faith, then they have already arrived, through the narrow door called Jesus the Christ. We are humble, thankful and repentant of our sins and hate the sight of them like a destructive plague...amen

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
lol...yes unfortunately he is missing the mark in some important ways....he isn't getting the yes but not necessarily yet of things. Know I'm repeating myself, but scripture explains that "all things HAVE been put under the feet of Jesus, though we don't yet SEE all things put under His feet" (And the last enemy to be defeated will be death itself.)

Amen, Jesus is the gate to the sheepfold and the narrow way is the way of the cross...as we are to follow in His footsteps...running the race, and walking after Him as long as we are alive. Which we need to remember was all preached to the Jew FIRST....and then to the Gentile. To my understanding we HAVE both ENTERED the kingdom when we came to faith, AS WELL as that we are enterING it in the present tense, "little by little", in another sense. Both are true at the same time.

The PROMISES are already yes and amen.....but that doesn't mean we don't also need to battle and fight the good fight of faith in order to apprehend them. We have a price to pay as well as that Jesus already paid it....it's encouraging to know (faith!) that we are fighting from a position of victory. Paul wrote about filling up what was behind of the sufferings of Christ - not that His suffering fell short in any way! - but that if we suffer with Him we will also reign with Him.
 
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Lizbeth

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So then what do his words tell you about his motives?

Much love!
We sure do need to have a care for the souls we are speaking to....though we give all we have and have all knowledge etc, if we have not love we have nothing.
 

APAK

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lol.

lol...yes unfortunately he is missing the mark in some important ways....he isn't getting the yes but not necessarily yet of things. Know I'm repeating myself, but scripture explains that "all things HAVE been put under the feet of Jesus, though we don't yet SEE all things put under His feet" (And the last enemy to be defeated will be death itself.)

Amen, Jesus is the gate to the sheepfold and the narrow way is the way of the cross...as we are to follow in His footsteps...running the race, and walking after Him as long as we are alive. Which we need to remember was all preached to the Jew FIRST....and then to the Gentile. To my understanding we HAVE both ENTERED the kingdom when we came to faith, AS WELL as that we are enterING it in the present tense, "little by little", in another sense. Both are true at the same time.

The PROMISES are already yes and amen.....but that doesn't mean we don't also need to battle and fight the good fight of faith in order to apprehend them. We have a price to pay as well as that Jesus already paid it....it's encouraging to know (faith!) that we are fighting from a position of victory. Paul wrote about filling up what was behind of the sufferings of Christ - not that His suffering fell short in any way! - but that if we suffer with Him we will also reign with Him.
Excellent and to the point sister..

We are indeed not just of the Kingdom as a new convert, we have entered the Kingdom, and are always ever moving towards being there permanently, into the Kingdom proper, in this life. We are of course now citizens of the Kingdom 'doing' the earthly vessel portion of the will of God...as it is done in heaven...

As an analogy of math, we are the moving dynamic line going towards the Kingdom asymptote, into infinity, never actually hitting it today, as we will not completely be conscious of the realm of the Kingdom permanently yet, in this life only the next one. When we can really say, we finally have arrived, for good. amen
 
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Lizbeth

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Many thought that the Kingdom of salvation was of a physical nature, not spiritual. They wanted an invincible King to repel their enemies.
Amen. Expecting and seeking God's kingdom to be established in THIS world tripped Israel up unfortunately. And now the church is doing the same with certain eschatological beliefs, and I believe that all needs to be re-examined......otherwise it may trip us up too with regard to His second coming and cause us to misplace our hopes and trust. Not to mention it has sidetracked and distracted the church from its mission. Jesus said His kingdom is NOT of this world but is within us....and scripture says we are to seek those things which are ABOVE, not here below. And "here we have no continuing city." Peter wrote that this world will burn up at the coming of the Lord. And when Jesus comes.....He is coming back to fetch his flock to meet Him in the "AIR" and "SO shall we EVER be with the Lord." ...not get plunked back down onto this temporal ball of dust, if there even will be any dust remaining after the elements burn up.

How we interpret the allegorical and cryptic writings of Revelation needs to harmonize with and be consistent with everything written beforehand, not contradict it. Don't look at the earlier scrips in light of Revelation, but rather to begin rightly dividing Rev we need to look at it in light of the scrips that came before.
 
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Lizbeth

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Excellent and to the point sister..

We are indeed not just of the Kingdom as a new convert, we have entered the Kingdom, and are always ever moving towards being there permanently, into the Kingdom proper, in this life. We are of course now citizens of the Kingdom 'doing' the earthly vessel portion of the will of God...as it is done in heaven...

As an analogy of math, we are the moving dynamic line going towards the Kingdom asymptote, into infinity, never actually hitting it today, as we will not completely be conscious of the realm of the Kingdom permanently yet, in this life only the next one. When we can really say, we finally have arrived, for good. amen
I had to google "asymptote", lol, but I think I've got the general idea. That seems to be what Paul was talking about when he said "you who are perfect be thus-minded" ie, to be of the same mind as he and not consider they have already attained. I believe there is more we can potentially get hold of in the Lord to be fully consecrated to Him, but the race isn't over til it's over when we die.
 
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APAK

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Amen. Expecting and seeking God's kingdom to be established in THIS world tripped Israel up unfortunately. And now the church is doing the same with certain eschatological beliefs, and I believe that all needs to be re-examined......otherwise it may trip us up too with regard to His second coming and cause us to misplace our hopes and trust. Not to mention it has sidetracked and distracted the church from its mission. Jesus said His kingdom is NOT of this world but is within us....and scripture says we are to seek those things which are ABOVE, not here below. And "here we have no continuing city." Peter wrote that this world will burn up at the coming of the Lord. And when Jesus comes.....He is coming back to fetch his flock to meet Him in the "AIR" and "SO shall we EVER be with the Lord." ...not get plunked back down onto this temporal ball of dust, if there even will be any dust remaining after the elements burn up.

How we interpret the allegorical and cryptic writings of Revelation needs to harmonize with and be consistent with everything written beforehand, not contradict it. Don't look at the earlier scrips in light of Revelation, but rather to begin rightly dividing Rev we need to look at it in light of the scrips that came before.
Right on sister, preach on, I'm part of your choir.

This earth is destined to fry and explode, when Christ 'returns' invisibly for his flock. Heaven will cause this earth to chain react with much explosive physical energy and heat, to cause it to disintegrate into small tiny pieces, then into its atomic elements, and then into its subatomic disassociated particles; completely obliterating it into nothing. Only the Kingdom will remain.
 
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Lizbeth

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This is wrong thinking. First, you have said you have no problem with fear and holiness. Very superficial assessment. And that's the problem...you think that anything of a more demanding nature than what you can afford has to be false. So for you, it is false. The reality is that you are not more committed to the truth than what you already are...so anything more is unaffordable. We see that a lot.

We are to strive to enter in through the narrow door...and many will try and fail. That doesn't make it false...that proves that the real gospel doesn't have to cut corners to appeal to people in their mixed state. You maybe WANT it to be false..but the true gospel is based on God's word which is like a double edged sword.
What is false is believing we have to do away with and deny the foundation in order to be "perfect" and holy.......when the reality is that we need that foundation in order to grow and mature as far as we can in this life. We are building upon it. A full grown tree has to spring upward from the seed. The capstone.......is also the cornerstone....they are one. Jesus, our foundation/cornerstone....is both the Author and Finisher of our faith. Christ IN us is the hope of glory, and only hope.......and all that is implied with having His spirit and nature within. If you would re-examine that part we might have a basis from which to talk about the rest.

There is a lot of duality with the word of God..."one thing He has spoken, two things have I heard"....is it possible some of those scrips in Romans which you say don't apply to everyone, are speaking on more than one level (so to speak) at the same time?
 
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amigo de christo

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A religious Pharisee only sees in black and white. The good..that's them, and the evil, everyone else. And these religious types love to judge others...others who so often are so much closer to the truth..obeying the commandments that the religious ones see as vain works. O, the wisdom of God. To harden the hearts of the filthy ones (the pretenders to holiness) and save the righteous who are humble and God-fearing.

My advice to the religious ones...get out and travel to poor countries....not just rich resorts. Stop navel gazing, and self-justifying...and learn to love others. Learn to see things as God sees them.....with eyes of mercy and compassion. Those things you will not see very often in rich countries.
rather odd my friend . JESUS ONLY SAW the same .
EITHER ITS TRUTH or a lie
EITHER ITS SIN or its not .
You been fed a huge shovel of the gray , or i should say brown matter the social inclusive darkspel has fed .
EITHER ITS TRUE OR ITS NOT
EITHER ITS SIN OR ITS NOT .
GOD dont see in GRAY DUDE , gray IS THE MIDDLE GROUND . the ground
that straddles the fence . ALL OTHER BELIEFS and RELIGOINS ARE FALSE , and frankly i dont care
how often they said love thy neighbor . THEY ALL LEAVE OUT THE DIRE NEED TO BELIEVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST
WHICH MEANS THEY FALSE . they wont correct sin either .
THE COMMANDMENT OF GOD IS THIS . YEAH I SAID GOD TOO .
CAUSE IT JESUS SAID IT GOD SAID IT . TO BELIEVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST WHOM HE DID SEND
AND TO LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF . NOW YOU GO AND LEARN what that means .
AND while you are at it , DO REMEMBER THE GREATEST SIN OF ALL , IS THE SIN OF UNBELIEF .
DO REMEMEBER THAT . cause GOD SAID , YEAH JESUS SAID SO IT DO MEAN GOD SAID IT ,
IF YOU BELIEVE , BREATH IT IN EPI , IF YOU BELIEVE NOT THAT I AM HE , YOU GONNA DIE IN YOUR SINS .
SO MUCH FOR SATANS ALL INCLUSIVE SOCIAL GOSPEL . IT CAME OF THE DRAGON AND IT WILL DIE WITH THE DRAGON TOO .
 

amigo de christo

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Taking on a religious bent doesn't save anyone. It just puffs up a religious ego...so that a person feels they are justified in their own eyes, and they are now qualified to condemn others. But that is the way of death. There is a way that seems right to the ego driven mind...

But we are saved through love. The commandments are to love. There is SO MUCH ignorance of the higher walk in Christ. To walk in the Spirit is to walk in God's love....the fourth dimension (spiritual life) IS love. God is love. Pharisees HATE that.

Jesus loved. God so loved the world. Not the systems of the world...but poor people...people who suffer. Those who have suffered in the flesh have ceased from sin...the sins that condemn people to a bad end....whether inside the church or outside. The lake of fire for the wicked outside the church...but outer darkness for those who judge those who are better than themselves in God's eyes.

As we judge we will be judged. So much blindness trying to penetrate the light on this thread. But it must be so. Not everyone will hear the truth and repent from their ways.
tell it to JESUS CHRIST WHO FIRST SAID IF YOU BELIEVE NOT THAT I AM HE YOU WILL DIE IN YOUR SINS .
YOU ATTACK JESUS EPI . i JUST REPEAT HIS WORDS . WATCH OUT IS ALL I CAN SAY .
 

RedFan

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tell it to JESUS CHRIST WHO FIRST SAID IF YOU BELIEVE NOT THAT I AM HE YOU WILL DIE IN YOUR SINS .
YOU ATTACK JESUS EPI . i JUST REPEAT HIS WORDS . WATCH OUT IS ALL I CAN SAY .
Are we talking about the same Jesus Christ who said "Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven” (Luke 6:37)? Are we talking about the same Jesus Christ who said "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven" (Matt. 5:3)?

If your copy of Luke has a verse 6:37b and your copy of Matthew has a verse 5:3b that adds "but only if you also believe that I AM HE," please share it with us. Otherwise, I suggest you not read John in isolation. We see in the Synoptics that Jesus repeatedly uses such words as “repentance,” “forgiveness” – but you won’t see those words even once in John’s gospel. NOT ONCE! When you've figured out the reason for this, we can have a deeper discussion.