Did God Kill Jesus?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Sigma

Active Member
Aug 16, 2023
743
159
43
PNW
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Read what Scripture actually says the way I read it: "And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us" (Jn. 1:14) Who is the Word that became flesh? Jesus. The Word is Who Jesus is, the same Word identified as God 13 verses prior in Jn. 1:1: "καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος" (and God was the Word), and thus Jesus the Messiah is God Incarnate: the eternal God "Θεὸς αἰώνιος" (Gen. 21:33).

As I said, "Read what Scripture actually says: 'And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us' (Jn. 1:14). Who is the Word that became flesh? Jesus. The Word is Who Jesus is, the same Word identified as God 13 verses prior in Jn. 1:1: "καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος" (and God was the Word), and thus Jesus the Messiah is God Incarnate: the eternal God "Θεὸς αἰώνιος" (Gen. 21:33)."

It's good you agree.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gabriel _Arch
Dec 12, 2023
79
28
8
51
Texas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
As I said, "Read what Scripture actually says: "And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us" (Jn. 1:14). Who is the Word that became flesh? Jesus. The Word is Who Jesus is, the same Word identified as God 13 verses prior in Jn. 1:1: "καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος" (and God was the Word), and thus Jesus the Messiah is God Incarnate: the eternal God "Θεὸς αἰώνιος" (Gen. 21:33)."

It's good you agree.
You are wrong and I am right. Now, do we agree?
 
Dec 12, 2023
79
28
8
51
Texas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Um...what you actually want to do is post what you believe. So, clarify your post.
I believe that the name Jesus, is the name of the word of God.

Is there any part of this that you do not believe?
If so, what part of it do you not believe? Point it out to me.
 

Sigma

Active Member
Aug 16, 2023
743
159
43
PNW
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I believe that the name Jesus, is the name of the word of God.

Is there any part of this that you do not believe?
If so, what part of it do you not believe? Point it out to me.

If by that you believe Jesus is God Incarnate then you agree with me. Do you believe Jesus is God Incarnate?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gabriel _Arch
Dec 12, 2023
79
28
8
51
Texas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
If by that you believe Jesus is God Incarnate then you agree with me. Do you believe Jesus is God Incarnate?
Jesus is my God. You say He was God incarnate. Tell me, what was He before He became incarnated?
 
Dec 12, 2023
79
28
8
51
Texas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
God. Do you believe Jesus is God Who's not only Spirit but human as well?
So, you believe that God became incarnated into the Son of God? Is this correct?

I already told you, I believe that the name Jesus, is the name of the word of God.
 

Sigma

Active Member
Aug 16, 2023
743
159
43
PNW
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So, you believe that God became incarnated into the Son of God? Is this correct?

The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are the one God. God in His spirit form (the Father) wanted to die for humanity, for He is the perfect sacrifice, but a spirit cannot die physically, so the part of Himself (the Word) became flesh (Jesus the Son), conceived in the womb of the Blessed Virgin Mary by the Holy Spirit (God), so as to be able to die for humanity. So, Jesus the Son of God is God in physical form. Do you accept or reject this Truth?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Gabriel _Arch
Dec 12, 2023
79
28
8
51
Texas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States

The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are the one God. God in His spirit form (the Father) wanted to die for humanity, for He is the perfect sacrifice, but a spirit cannot die physically, so the part of Himself (the Word) became flesh (Jesus), so as to be able to die for humanity. So, Jesus the Son is God in physical form. Do you accept or reject this Truth?
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Do you accept or reject this Truth?
 

Sigma

Active Member
Aug 16, 2023
743
159
43
PNW
Faith
Christian
Country
United States

Thank you for demonstrating taking a verse out of context. You only cited Jn. 3:6, you should've included verses 5;7;8 for context, especially when asking someone if they accept the truth of the passage. The passage says, "Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which has been born of the flesh is flesh, and that which has been born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know where it is coming from and where it is going; so is everyone who has been born of the Spirit." So, I accept the Truth that He's speaking about the conversion of souls and how to achieve the kingdom of Heaven.

Back to the topic, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are the one God. God in His spirit form (the Father) wanted to die for humanity, for He is the perfect sacrifice, but a spirit cannot die physically, so the part of Himself (the Word) became flesh (Jesus), so as to be able to die for humanity. So, Jesus the Son is God in physical form.

In the original language used, Koine Greek, it says:

"and God was the Word"
"καὶ (and) θεὸς (God) ἦν (was) ὁ (the) λόγος (Word)..." (Jn. 1:1)

"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us"
"Καὶ ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο καὶ ἐσκήνωσεν ἐν ἡμῖν, καὶ ἐθεασάμεθα τὴν δόξαν αὐτοῦ, δόξαν ὡς μονογενοῦς παρὰ πατρός, πλήρης χάριτος καὶ ἀληθείας." "Καὶ (And) ὁ (the) λόγος (Word) σὰρξ (flesh) ἐγένετο (became) καὶ (and) ἐσκήνωσεν (dwelt) ἐν (among) ἡμῖν (us)..." (Jn. 1:14)

Who is the Word that became flesh? Jesus. The Word is Who Jesus is, the same Word identified as God 13 verses prior in Jn. 1:1: "καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος" (and God was the Word), and thus Jesus the Messiah is God Incarnate.

Additionally, Moses said to God that the children of Israel will ask the name of the one who sent him, then asked what name shall he tell them: "Καὶ εἶπε Μωυσῆς πρὸς τὸν Θεὸν, ἰδοὺ ἐγὼ ἐξελεύσομαι πρὸς τοὺς υἱοὺς ᾿Ισραὴλ, καὶ ἐρῶ πρὸς αὐτοὺς, Θεὸς τῶν πατέρων ἡμῶν ἀπέσταλκέ με πρὸς ὑμᾶς: ἐρωτήσουσί με, τί ὄνομα αὐτῷ; τί ἐρῶ. πρὸς αὐτούς; Καὶ εἶπεν ὁ Θεὸς πρὸς Μωυσῆν, λέγων, ἐγώ εἰμι ὃ "Qu: (I AM THE BEING): καὶ εἶπεν, οὕτως ἐρεῖς τοῖς υἱοῖς Ἰσραὴλ, ὁ Ὧν ἀπέσταλκέ με πρὸς ὑμᾶς (say to the children of Israel THE BEING has sent me to you)." (Ex. 3:13-14)

Fast forward to the scene of Jn. 8:58, where Jesus claimed to be eternal and to have existed before Abraham, but more importantly, He called himself by the ancient title ascribed only to God Himself: "...πρὶν (before) Ἀβραὰμ (Abraham) γενέσθαι ἐγὼ (I) εἰμί (AM)." The Pharisees knew exactly what Jesus meant by this. From their perspective, Jesus said specifically, “I am God”. How do we know this was their interpretations of His words? We know it from their reaction. They responded by attempting to stone Jesus for claiming to be God (an act of blasphemy they considered worthy of death): "ἦραν (picked) οὖν λίθους (stones) ἵνα (to) βάλωσιν (throw) ἐπ' (at) αὐτόν (him): Ἰησοῦς δὲ ἐκρύβη καὶ ἐξῆλθεν ἐκ τοῦ ἱεροῦ," but He escaped them (Jn. 8:59).

Now, how was Jesus existing before Abraham was born? As He's always existed: as the Word with God (ὁ (the) λόγος (Word) ἦν (was) πρὸς τὸν (with) θεόν (God), and at the same time also as God (θεὸς (God) ἦν (was) ὁ (the) λόγος (Word) (Jn. 1:1), the eternal God "Θεὸς αἰώνιος" (Gen. 21:33), and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us (Jn. 1:14).

In Jn. 10:22-36, again the Pharisees understood Jesus was calling Himself God, and they wanted to kill him for it, for they said: "ἀπεκρίθησαν αὐτῷ οἱ Ἰουδαῖοι, Περὶ καλοῦ ἔργου οὐ λιθάζομέν (stone) σε (you) ἀλλὰ περὶ (for) βλασφημίας (blasphemy), καὶ ὅτι σὺ ἄνθρωπος ὢν ποιεῖς (making) σεαυτὸν (yourself) θεόν (God)" (Jn. 10:33), and Jesus didn't deny it because He did as He's God Incarnate.

The same Jesus said to be God by His apostle, Thomas: "ἀπεκρίθη (replied) Θωμᾶς (Thomas) καὶ (and) εἶπεν (saying) αὐτῷ (to), Ὁ κύριός (Lord) μου (my) καὶ (and) ὁ θεός (God) μου." (Jn. 20:28)

The apostles knew Jesus was God. Even the Pharisees understood Jesus called Himself God, though they didn't believe Him, which is why they tried to kill Him for blasphemy, and Jesus never denied it when they acknowledged He claimed to be God, because He is. Therefore, how can you deny it?
 
Last edited:
Dec 12, 2023
79
28
8
51
Texas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Thank you for demonstrating taking a verse out of context. You only cited Jn. 3:6, you should've included verses 5;7;8, because it gives context. The passage says, "Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which has been born of the flesh is flesh, and that which has been born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know where it is coming from and where it is going; so is everyone who has been born of the Spirit." So, He's speaking about the conversion of souls.

Back to the topic, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are the one God. God in His spirit form (the Father) wanted to die for humanity, for He is the perfect sacrifice, but a spirit cannot die physically, so the part of Himself (the Word) became flesh (Jesus), so as to be able to die for humanity. So, Jesus the Son is God in physical form.

In the original language used, Koine Greek, it says:

"and God was the Word"
"καὶ (and) θεὸς (God) ἦν (was) ὁ (the) λόγος (Word)..." (Jn. 1:1)

"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us"
"Καὶ ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο καὶ ἐσκήνωσεν ἐν ἡμῖν, καὶ ἐθεασάμεθα τὴν δόξαν αὐτοῦ, δόξαν ὡς μονογενοῦς παρὰ πατρός, πλήρης χάριτος καὶ ἀληθείας." "Καὶ (And) ὁ (the) λόγος (Word) σὰρξ (flesh) ἐγένετο (became) καὶ (and) ἐσκήνωσεν (dwelt) ἐν (among) ἡμῖν (us)..." (Jn. 1:14)

Who is the Word that became flesh? Jesus. The Word is Who Jesus is, the same Word identified as God 13 verses prior in Jn. 1:1: "καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος" (and God was the Word), and thus Jesus the Messiah is God Incarnate.

Additionally, Moses said to God that the children of Israel will ask the name of the one who sent him, then asked what name shall he tell them: "Καὶ εἶπε Μωυσῆς πρὸς τὸν Θεὸν, ἰδοὺ ἐγὼ ἐξελεύσομαι πρὸς τοὺς υἱοὺς ᾿Ισραὴλ, καὶ ἐρῶ πρὸς αὐτοὺς, Θεὸς τῶν πατέρων ἡμῶν ἀπέσταλκέ με πρὸς ὑμᾶς: ἐρωτήσουσί με, τί ὄνομα αὐτῷ; τί ἐρῶ. πρὸς αὐτούς; Καὶ εἶπεν ὁ Θεὸς πρὸς Μωυσῆν, λέγων, ἐγώ εἰμι ὃ "Qu: (I AM THE BEING): καὶ εἶπεν, οὕτως ἐρεῖς τοῖς υἱοῖς Ἰσραὴλ, ὁ Ὧν ἀπέσταλκέ με πρὸς ὑμᾶς (say to the children of Israel THE BEING has sent me to you)." (Ex. 3:13-14)

Fast forward to the scene of Jn. 8:58, where Jesus claimed to be eternal and to have existed before Abraham, but more importantly, He called himself by the ancient title ascribed only to God Himself: "...πρὶν (before) Ἀβραὰμ (Abraham) γενέσθαι ἐγὼ (I) εἰμί (AM)." The Pharisees knew exactly what Jesus meant by this. From their perspective, Jesus said specifically, “I am God”. How do we know this was their interpretations of His words? We know it from their reaction. They responded by attempting to stone Jesus for claiming to be God (an act of blasphemy they considered worthy of death): "ἦραν (picked) οὖν λίθους (stones) ἵνα (to) βάλωσιν (throw) ἐπ' (at) αὐτόν (him): Ἰησοῦς δὲ ἐκρύβη καὶ ἐξῆλθεν ἐκ τοῦ ἱεροῦ," but He escaped them (Jn. 8:59).

Now, how was Jesus existing before Abraham was born? As He's always existed: as the Word with God (ὁ (the) λόγος (Word) ἦν (was) πρὸς τὸν (with) θεόν (God), and at the same time also as God (θεὸς (God) ἦν (was) ὁ (the) λόγος (Word) (Jn. 1:1), the eternal God "Θεὸς αἰώνιος" (Gen. 21:33), and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us (Jn. 1:14).

In Jn. 10:22-36, again the Pharisees understood Jesus was calling Himself God, and they wanted to kill him for it, for they said: "ἀπεκρίθησαν αὐτῷ οἱ Ἰουδαῖοι, Περὶ καλοῦ ἔργου οὐ λιθάζομέν (stone) σε (you) ἀλλὰ περὶ (for) βλασφημίας (blasphemy), καὶ ὅτι σὺ ἄνθρωπος ὢν ποιεῖς (making) σεαυτὸν (yourself) θεόν (God)" (Jn. 10:33), and Jesus didn't deny it because He did as He's God Incarnate.

The same Jesus said to be God by His apostle, Thomas: "ἀπεκρίθη (replied) Θωμᾶς (Thomas) καὶ (and) εἶπεν (saying) αὐτῷ (to), Ὁ κύριός (Lord) μου (my) καὶ (and) ὁ θεός (God) μου." (Jn. 20:28)

The apostles knew Jesus was God. Even the Pharisees understood Jesus called Himself God, though they didn't believe Him, which is why they tried to kill Him for blasphemy, and Jesus never denied it when they acknowledged He claimed to be God, because He is. Therefore, how can you deny it?
It would have been a whole easier on you if you would have just said
" You got me, I give up".
 

Sigma

Active Member
Aug 16, 2023
743
159
43
PNW
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Thank you for demonstrating taking a verse out of context. You only cited Jn. 3:6, if you had included verses 5;7;8, it gives the context. The passage says, "Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which has been born of the flesh is flesh, and that which has been born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know where it is coming from and where it is going; so is everyone who has been born of the Spirit." So, in short, He's speaking about the conversion of souls.

Back to the topic, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are the one God. God in His spirit form (the Father) wanted to die for humanity, for He is the perfect sacrifice, but a spirit cannot die physically, so the part of Himself (the Word) became flesh (Jesus), so as to be able to die for humanity. So, Jesus the Son is God in physical form.

In the original language used, Koine Greek, it says:

"and God was the Word"
"καὶ (and) θεὸς (God) ἦν (was) ὁ (the) λόγος (Word)..." (Jn. 1:1)

"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us"
"Καὶ ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο καὶ ἐσκήνωσεν ἐν ἡμῖν, καὶ ἐθεασάμεθα τὴν δόξαν αὐτοῦ, δόξαν ὡς μονογενοῦς παρὰ πατρός, πλήρης χάριτος καὶ ἀληθείας." "Καὶ (And) ὁ (the) λόγος (Word) σὰρξ (flesh) ἐγένετο (became) καὶ (and) ἐσκήνωσεν (dwelt) ἐν (among) ἡμῖν (us)..." (Jn. 1:14)

Who is the Word that became flesh? Jesus. The Word is Who Jesus is, the same Word identified as God 13 verses prior in Jn. 1:1: "καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος" (and God was the Word), and thus Jesus the Messiah is God Incarnate.

Additionally, Moses said to God that the children of Israel will ask the name of the one who sent him, then asked what name shall he tell them: "Καὶ εἶπε Μωυσῆς πρὸς τὸν Θεὸν, ἰδοὺ ἐγὼ ἐξελεύσομαι πρὸς τοὺς υἱοὺς ᾿Ισραὴλ, καὶ ἐρῶ πρὸς αὐτοὺς, Θεὸς τῶν πατέρων ἡμῶν ἀπέσταλκέ με πρὸς ὑμᾶς: ἐρωτήσουσί με, τί ὄνομα αὐτῷ; τί ἐρῶ. πρὸς αὐτούς; Καὶ εἶπεν ὁ Θεὸς πρὸς Μωυσῆν, λέγων, ἐγώ εἰμι ὃ "Qu: (I AM THE BEING): καὶ εἶπεν, οὕτως ἐρεῖς τοῖς υἱοῖς Ἰσραὴλ, ὁ Ὧν ἀπέσταλκέ με πρὸς ὑμᾶς (say to the children of Israel THE BEING has sent me to you)." (Ex. 3:13-14)

Fast forward to the scene of Jn. 8:58, where Jesus claimed to be eternal and to have existed before Abraham, but more importantly, He called himself by the ancient title ascribed only to God Himself: "...πρὶν (before) Ἀβραὰμ (Abraham) γενέσθαι ἐγὼ (I) εἰμί (AM)." The Pharisees knew exactly what Jesus meant by this. From their perspective, Jesus said specifically, “I am God”. How do we know this was their interpretations of His words? We know it from their reaction. They responded by attempting to stone Jesus for claiming to be God (an act of blasphemy they considered worthy of death): "ἦραν (picked) οὖν λίθους (stones) ἵνα (to) βάλωσιν (throw) ἐπ' (at) αὐτόν (him): Ἰησοῦς δὲ ἐκρύβη καὶ ἐξῆλθεν ἐκ τοῦ ἱεροῦ," but He escaped them (Jn. 8:59).

Now, how was Jesus existing before Abraham was born? As He's always existed: as the Word with God (ὁ (the) λόγος (Word) ἦν (was) πρὸς τὸν (with) θεόν (God), and at the same time also as God (θεὸς (God) ἦν (was) ὁ (the) λόγος (Word) (Jn. 1:1), the eternal God "Θεὸς αἰώνιος" (Gen. 21:33), and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us (Jn. 1:14).

In Jn. 10:22-36, again the Pharisees understood Jesus was calling Himself God, and they wanted to kill him for it, for they said: "ἀπεκρίθησαν αὐτῷ οἱ Ἰουδαῖοι, Περὶ καλοῦ ἔργου οὐ λιθάζομέν (stone) σε (you) ἀλλὰ περὶ (for) βλασφημίας (blasphemy), καὶ ὅτι σὺ ἄνθρωπος ὢν ποιεῖς (making) σεαυτὸν (yourself) θεόν (God)" (Jn. 10:33), and Jesus didn't deny it because He did as He's God Incarnate.

The same Jesus said to be God by His apostle, Thomas: "ἀπεκρίθη (replied) Θωμᾶς (Thomas) καὶ (and) εἶπεν (saying) αὐτῷ (to), Ὁ κύριός (Lord) μου (my) καὶ (and) ὁ θεός (God) μου." (Jn. 20:28)

The apostles knew Jesus was God. Even the Pharisees understood Jesus called Himself God, though they didn't believe Him, which is why they tried to kill Him for blasphemy, and Jesus never denied it when they acknowledged He claimed to be God, because He is. Therefore, how can you deny it?

It would have been a whole easier on you if you would have just said
" You got me, I give up".

Indeed, if I felt that way, which I don't. Since that's all you could come back with in reply to the above, it looks like you're done here.
 
Last edited:

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,758
13,083
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Again, God is eternal, but also Spirit. A spirit cannot die physically, but God wanted to die physically on the behalf of humanity, for He is the perfect sacrifice. So, He incarnated a part of Himself becoming human. God as a human (Jesus) has a beginning, as a part of Himself was conceived in a womb by the Holy Spirit, but at the same time He's still the eternal God who has no beginning or end, because at the same time God exists in Heaven in His spirit form. The Father, the Son (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit are the one God. The one God is a triune God.

I've shown you multiple scenes in Scripture where Jesus called Himself "God." Even the Pharisees understood Jesus called Himself "God," yet they didn't accept He's God Incarnate, which is why they tried to kill Him for "blasphemy." Jesus's apostle, Thomas, understood He's God Incarnate, by having called Him "God."

You attempting to imply you are trying to convince me Jesus is God, is a waste of time.
I already know that and have said nothing what so ever to the contrast.


The point was Jesus IS or AS a human man.
Humans are created beings.
Jesus was neither created or IS/WaS a human.

Perhaps you could take a lesson from:
Bruce Jenner, a MALE, born 1949.
Married 3 different FEMALES.
Had 6 children.
Divorced from HIS 3 different Wives.
WHO:
Underwent a surgeons knife; 2015
Changed HIS name;
Calls HIMSELF a FEMALE.
Yet IS STILL a MAN.

Christ the Lord Jesus IS, Was, Shall Forever BE Spirit, BE God, regardless that He ONCE and Shall AGAIN, APPEAR to the eyes of Earthly human men…..AS an Earthly man.
 

Sigma

Active Member
Aug 16, 2023
743
159
43
PNW
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You attempting to imply you are trying to convince me Jesus is God, is a waste of time.
I already know that and have said nothing what so ever to the contrast.

First, you disagree that Jesus is God Incarnate (God in physical form), then you agree, then you disagree, and now you agree again. Oy. Well, glad you agree.
 
Dec 12, 2023
79
28
8
51
Texas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Indeed, if I felt that way, which I don't. Since that's all you could come back with in reply to the above, it looks like you're done here.
I am right, the name Jesus is the name of the Word of God. What else is there to say?
 

Sigma

Active Member
Aug 16, 2023
743
159
43
PNW
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I am right, the name Jesus is the name of the Word of God. What else is there to say?

The topic became whether you believe Jesus is God in physical form and you don't, nor did you have anything to say in reply to the proof He is. So, you're done here. Go and enjoy your day.