Did John really write Revelation while on Patmos? Maybe not.

[DJT_47]

Read closely Rev 1:9

​

​ 9I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. Note the word highlighted, "was", that it's past tense. Why past tense and not present tense? If John were writing while yet on Patmos, "was" would not have been used, but rather 'am'. This leads me to believe it was written sometime after his exile had ended, consistent with Rev 10:11 wherein he's told he must again prophesy (below). Rev 10:11 11And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings. ​ ​

​

 

[marks]

Read closely Rev 1:9

I was sitting at my desk reading your post not more than two minutes ago. I'm still happen to be here now.

Much love!

 

[RedFan]

Victorinus suggests that John wrote it after leaving Patmos, in Commentary on the Apocalypse of the Blessed John, Chap. 10, section 11.

 

[BlessedPeace]

It's like Paul's prison letters.

Is it conceivable men sentenced to exile or prison for teaching the gospel would be allowed to continue while in exile or prison?

Guards over Paul would have been executed if they were found to give him writing implements and smuggled out his work.

Same with John. He's exiled to an island yet given writing materials? So to continue in the vein that got him sentenced to Patmos.


And why exile him? When supposedly all other apostles were executed for their service?

 

[Lambano]

The phrase used is ἐγενόμην ἐν τῇ νήσῳ τῇ καλουμένῃ Πάτμῳ. "ἐγενόμην" is the first person second aorist middle deponent (phew!) form of "γίνομαι", which means "to become". The aorist form is technically without reference to time, but is commonly used as what in English would be a past tense. So, the passage should read,

"I became in (on) the isle called Patmos for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ."

So, what John is doing here is explaining how he came to be on Patmos. There is no implied meaning that he was no longer there. Or still there, for that matter.

 

[DJT_47]

The phrase used is ἐγενόμην ἐν τῇ νήσῳ τῇ καλουμένῃ Πάτμῳ. "ἐγενόμην" is the first person second aorist middle deponent (phew!) form of "γίνομαι", which means "to become". The aorist form is technically without reference to time, but is commonly used as what in English would be a past tense. So, the passage should read,

"I became in (on) the isle called Patmos for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ."

So, what John is doing here is explaining how he came to be on Patmos. There is no implied meaning that he was no longer there. Or still there, for that matter.

That might very well be (or not), but that still doesn't address Rev 10:11 which lends credence to my op position.

 

[Adrift]

Why does it matter? Just curious.

 

[DJT_47]

Why does it matter? Just curious.

It doesn't necessarily

 

[Wick Stick]

Why does it matter? Just curious.

There are some eschatological beliefs which would be disproved, depending on the when Revelation was written.

 

[DJT_47]

There are some eschatological beliefs which would be disproved, depending on the when Revelation was written.

Yes. When you look at the 3 John letters and Revelation, they are all supposedly written around the same time which is a pretty good stretch, and is indefinitive, covering a period before and after the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD. For certain Revelation pertains to before the fall because John is told to go measure the temple in Rev11:1, so if it was destroyed, he would not have been casually told to do that unless a 3rd temple were to be built, which is questionable at best; but, does some of Revelation also cover end times? The intent of my OP was not to cover that or get into that topic at all which is a highly controversial one.

 

[APAK]

Read closely Rev 1:9

​

​ 9I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. Note the word highlighted, "was", that it's past tense. Why past tense and not present tense? If John were writing while yet on Patmos, "was" would not have been used, but rather 'am'. This leads me to believe it was written sometime after his exile had ended, consistent with Rev 10:11 wherein he's told he must again prophesy (below). Rev 10:11 11And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings. ​ ​

​

Yes, I've been saying that John was never a prisoner on Patmos as he preached, and also not a Roman citizen either. I also said he wrote his Book soon afterwards, off the Island, in the early 60's, not in 90s when he would have become senile, if he was even living at that point, and I doubt it. The Tribulation that John was speaking of, was pertaining to especially of the Judean wars with the Romans that came to a head in 70 AD.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Note the word highlighted, "was", that it's past tense. Why past tense and not present tense?

Anyone writing about any event is writing after it happened. He wasn't seeing visions and using automatic writing as someone might take dictation in a trance: "My body is on the Island of Patmos while I am writing to you but my spirit is in heaven ..." No, I doubt it happened that way.
He was instructed to write what he saw. His full attention was present during his heavenly trip.
John had the visions, then he wrote about them. He is just telling you where he was when this Revelation of Jesus came to him _ on the Island of Patmos.

 

[DJT_47]

Anyone writing about any event is writing after it happened. He wasn't seeing visions and using automatic writing as someone might take dictation in a trance: "My body is on the Island of Patmos while I am writing to you but my spirit is in heaven ..." No, I doubt it happened that way.
He was instructed to write what he saw. His full attention was present during his heavenly trip.
John had the visions, then he wrote about them. He is just telling you where he was when this Revelation of Jesus came to him _ on the Island of Patmos.

The question in point is when did he write about what he saw; was it as it was occurring while on Patmos, or after? And I surmise it was after. He could have been writing about it as it was occurring, in which case he would have appropriately said "am", but he said "was", which infers sometime after and not as the event was unfolding.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

The question in point is when did he write about what he saw; was it as it was occurring while on Patmos, or after? And I surmise it was after. He could have been writing about it as it was occurring, in which case he would have appropriately said "am", but he said "was", which infers sometime after and not as the event was unfolding.

You surmise that John wrote the Book of Revelation after he left Patmos?
He died in Ephesus around 98AD, which shortly after hisbleave of Patmos. It has been accepted by numerous scholars that the Book of Revelation was written about 95 AD. So why would he write a letter to The Church of Ephesus if he was in Ephesus? Lol
Polycarp was a student of his, who visited John and delivered the writings to the Church.
It is the Word of God. It is timeless. Does not matter when or where man received HIS message to us?
When Paul wrote his Epistles, he was in prison too. A good time to write, in solitude, no interruptions, nothing else to concern yourself with.
As for Rev. 10:11., wouldn't the angel be referring to this book, that is a prophecy to the world? "Prophecy again" meant to write this book. Even if he verbally prophesied to many after his exile, it would only be to repeat the words of this book.

 

[Jack]

No matter. It's God's Word. World Government, Mark of the Beast, ... It's coming!!!

 

[DJT_47]

You surmise that John wrote the Book of Revelation after he left Patmos?
He died in Ephesus around 98AD, which shortly after hisbleave of Patmos. It has been accepted by numerous scholars that the Book of Revelation was written about 95 AD. So why would he write a letter to The Church of Ephesus if he was in Ephesus? Lol
Polycarp was a student of his, who visited John and delivered the writings to the Church.
It is the Word of God. It is timeless. Does not matter when or where man received HIS message to us?
When Paul wrote his Epistles, he was in prison too. A good time to write, in solitude, no interruptions, nothing else to concern yourself with.
As for Rev. 10:11., wouldn't the angel be referring to this book, that is a prophecy to the world? "Prophecy again" meant to write this book. Even if he verbally prophesied to many after his exile, it would only be to repeat the words of this book.

He didn't fly to Ephesus in an hour. Believe what you like and I'll do the same based on the words and what they suggest.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I was sitting at my desk reading your post not more than two minutes ago. I'm still happen to be here now.

Much love!

Responding to your post about “I was at my desk” so happens I am still here now.

Revelation 1:9-10 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. [10] I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

Revelation 17:3 And he carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness, and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was full of blasphemous names, and it had seven heads and ten horns.

This may be a stupid question but I was thinking about this yesterday ….have you ever while reading the word, went into a trance? I don’t mean a freaky eyes rolling back in your head and mumbling trance depicted on tv but …you leaned into Him and went some place else? I’m not trying to suggest travel outside of the body or anything like that…I am only asking if you have ever experienced anything outside of yourself, while reading His word (I was sitting at my desk) of a carrying, an intimacy, a peace and calm where He speaks and communicates…where once you have returned to the here and now (I am still sitting at my desk), and the day begins to batter against you again…you long or miss those glimpses of something better outside of this fleshly hindrance? I guess I’m asking, have you ever been caught up by the word?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Read closely Rev 1:9

​

​ 9I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. Note the word highlighted, "was", that it's past tense. Why past tense and not present tense? If John were writing while yet on Patmos, "was" would not have been used, but rather 'am'. This leads me to believe it was written sometime after his exile had ended, consistent with Rev 10:11 wherein he's told he must again prophesy (below). Rev 10:11 11And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings. ​ ​

​

To me, Patmos meaning is important: a barren island, a rocky place…a place of banishment.

For the word’s sake…reminds me of to rejoice when they cast you out, or they put you out from among them …for this is for the words sake? Key then is John was in the place of banishment for the words sake … maybe The Revelation of Jesus Christ was written on the isle of banishment, in a rocky place, a place that was barren. I think of Paul in a hole or in prison saying “rejoice, I say it again, Rejoice!” “Bring me my cloak and parchments” …

but where was the Revelation of Jesus Christ given of God unto Him, to show His servants …where was the Revelation of Jesus Christ penned? ….Not in stone tables?

Galatians 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Yet the isle of Patmos …a rocky place, a place of banishment also reminds of Matthew 16:15-18 He said unto them, But do you say I am? [16] And Simon Peter answered and said, You are the Christ, the Son of the living God. [17] And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed are you, Simon Bar–jona: for flesh and blood has not revealed it unto you, but my Father which is in heaven. [18] And I say also unto you, That you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
^John was on the isle of Patmos, a rocky place —where flesh and blood had not revealed unto John the Revelation of Jesus Christ, but the Father which is in heaven….

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

He didn't fly to Ephesus in an hour. Believe what you like and I'll do the same based on the words and what they suggest.

Scholars agree Revelation was written on Patmos. But even if it wasn't, what is your point? It's God's word wherever it was written.
If you really have a problem with one word or sentence that causes you to go off on a tangent, likely you'll have difficulty with discerning the entire Bible.
** BTW, Patmos was about 38 miles off the coast of present day southern Turkey (3-4 hours sailing with a good wind), then Ephesus was about 50 miles north from there (two day travel).
God Bless.

 

[DJT_47]

Scholars agree Revelation was written on Patmos. But even if it wasn't, what is your point? It's God's word wherever it was written.
If you really have a problem with one word or sentence that causes you to go off on a tangent, likely you'll have difficulty with discerning the entire Bible.
** BTW, Patmos was about 38 miles off the coast of present day southern Turkey (3-4 hours sailing with a good wind), then Ephesus was about 50 miles north from there (two day travel).
God Bless.

Trivia. Clarification. Does it mean anything or have relevance? No. Do I care what so- called "scholars" say or what they agree upon? No.