I believe that gay people have as much of a "choice" to be gay as you do to not sin

[Daniel Blogger]

So what did Jesus say

How do you abolish a Prophet? - LOL

Below is an interesting follow-up to Matthew 5:17.
Jesus explains what he meant.

Luke 24:44 NIV
He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you:
Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in
the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

I have repented from many forms of sin, but not from all of them. I am a flawed, busted, broken, Christian that knows that only Jesus can heal and save me.

As long as we realize that we are in need of constant repentance, there is still hope that God can finish his work in us. If God can not work in us, it is ALWAYS because of our lack of faith. Have faith that God can work, and allow Him to work, and He will finish what He started in you.

 

[Patrick1966]

As long as we realize that we are in need of constant repentance, there is still hope that God can finish his work in us. If God can not work in us, it is ALWAYS because of our lack of faith. Have faith that God can work, and allow Him to work, and He will finish what He started in you.

Yes, Jesus will finish restoring us.

1 Peter 5:10 And after you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace, who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ, will himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish you.

 

[Aunty Jane]

So Paul was wrong?

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 ESV​

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Interesting how these terms are applied in Strongs Concordance....
There are two Greek words used there.....the first word is "malakos"...which means....

1. effeminate
   
   1. of a catamite
   2. of a boy kept for homosexual relations with a man
   3. of a male who submits his body to unnatural lewdness
   4. of a male prostitute

The second word is "arsenokoitēs" defined as "one who lies with a male as with a female, sodomite, homosexual".

We know that homosexuality has existed for millennia, so God's law on sexual misconduct included it, along with other forms of unnatural or non-permissible sex. (Lev 18:6-30)
So, all forms of sexual immorality were forbidden to God's people, regardless of gender......so what made homosexual sex so abhorrent to Jehovah? The sacred seed of life was deposited in places it was not designed to go and hence especially disgusting in God's eyes....making a mockery of the sacredness of life. Scriptural marriage was the only sanction for sex because that was an expression of love between a committed married couple who would go on to produce children in a loving and committed family environment with the balance of two parents of the opposite sex.

Jesus taught from Jewish scripture, and the apostle Paul was a former Pharisee, so he too knew the scriptures well.
With a sinful nature inherited from our first parents, it is interesting to note that their first experience of shame involved their reproductive organs, which they tried to cover with fig leaves. Apparently sexual sin is a major problem with fallen humanity.

 

[Patrick1966]

Apparently sexual sin is a major problem with fallen humanity.

It is but it's also true that ALL of the apples in the bushel (so to speak) are rotten to one degree or another.

By the way, your response was terrific. Thank you for the scripture!

 

[Aunty Jane]

It is but it's also true that ALL of the apples in the bushel (so to speak) are rotten to one degree or another.

There are none who do not sin on a daily basis....
I love Psalm 130:3-4...
"If errors were what you watch, O Jah,
Then who, O Jehovah, could stand?
4 For with you there is true forgiveness,
So that you may be held in awe."

By the way, your response was terrific. Thank you for the scripture!

You're welcome.....

 

[TinMan]

Interesting how these terms are applied in Strongs Concordance....
There are two Greek words used there.....the first word is "malakos"...which means....

1. effeminate
   
   1. of a catamite
   2. of a boy kept for homosexual relations with a man
   3. of a male who submits his body to unnatural lewdness
   4. of a male prostitute

Malakos also appears in Matthew 11:8 and Luke 7:25 but here it refers to the expensive clothing of nobles.

.The second word is "arsenokoitēs" defined as "one who lies with a male as with a female, sodomite, homosexual".

We know that homosexuality has existed for millennia, so God's law on sexual misconduct included it, along with other forms of unnatural or non-permissible sex. (Lev 18:6-30)
So, all forms of sexual immorality were forbidden to God's people, regardless of gender......so what made homosexual sex so abhorrent to Jehovah? The sacred seed of life was deposited in places it was not designed to go and hence especially disgusting in God's eyes....making a mockery of the sacredness of life. Scriptural marriage was the only sanction for sex because that was an expression of love between a committed married couple who would go on to produce children in a loving and committed family environment with the balance of two parents of the opposite sex.

Sadly the only justification for arsenokoites to translate to homosexual is to claim that the word's meaning is derived from the meaning of its two root words. But that isn't how you get the meaning of compound words. Understand?

 

[Aunty Jane]

Malakos also appears in Matthew 11:8 and Luke 7:25 but here it refers to the expensive clothing of nobles.

Yes, the soft clothing worn by the rich was the choice of those deemed to be "effeminate" in the day.
Israelite men were to be workers who had no time or inclination for the soft life or the soft clothing of the wealthy. Jesus taught about the dangers of the 'get rich' mindset....."you cannot slave for two masters....God and riches"....or "it is easeier for a camel to get through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into the kingdom of God"
Are you trying to justify homosexuality here? I can see no other reason for this line of reasoning.

Sadly the only justification for arsenokoites to translate to homosexual is to claim that the word's meaning is derived from the meaning of its two root words. But that isn't how you get the meaning of compound words. Understand?

I understand that you seem to want to imply that the Bible does not refer to homosexual sex....is that in order to justify homosexuality for Christians....is that what you are doing?

Regardless of gender, illicit sex is forbidden to all but those who enter into scriptural marriage. Jesus was in no doubt that marriage was between a man and a woman and that God was the one who "yoked" them together. (Matt 19:4-6) God would never "yoke" a man and a man, or a woman and a women together in marriage.....it would not mean the beginning of a family because it requires two opposite genders to produce children, which was the whole purpose of marriage in the first place. Look at nature.....genders are not messed up in the animal kingdom. They recognize their opposites and we know that reproduction is a strong instinct in all species.....it cannot take place without a male and female.

 

[marksman]

being gay isn't an identity problem

I never said it was

 

[Space_Karen]

Recently, internet celebrities came forward claiming that many of the gays they personally know were molested and groomed by LGBTs when they were very young.

Its an interesting observation of the issue, which hasn't been publicized much before now.

 

[TinMan]

Yes, the soft clothing worn by the rich was the choice of those deemed to be "effeminate" in the day.
Israelite men were to be workers who had no time or inclination for the soft life or the soft clothing of the wealthy. Jesus taught about the dangers of the 'get rich' mindset....."you cannot slave for two masters....God and riches"....or "it is easeier for a camel to get through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into the kingdom of God"

actually writers of the dime never views rich clothing to be effeminate rather they like Scipio Aemilianus (185-129 BC) considered being clean shaven as an affectation of the effeminate Greeks.

Are you trying to justify homosexuality here? I can see no other reason for this line of reasoning.

You don't consider accurate translation to be a reason for discussion?

Malakos has two radically different translation with just a few pages between them. So why would a word have two different translations in the same text?

Or was this just an attack to shut me up?

I understand that you seem to want to imply that the Bible does not refer to homosexual sex....is that in order to justify homosexuality for Christians....is that what you are doing?

Regardless of gender, illicit sex is forbidden to all but those who enter into scriptural marriage.

So why are fundamentalists silent about the sinful non marriage between non-Christian men and women?

Jesus was in no doubt that marriage was between a man and a woman and that God was the one who "yoked" them together. (Matt 19:4-6) God would never "yoke" a man and a man, or a woman and a women together in marriage....

It's interesting to note that this verse about unequal yoking was used for generations as a justificaion for prohibiting interracial marriage.

.it would not mean the beginning of a family because it requires two opposite genders to produce children, which was the whole purpose of marriage in the first place.

And that is why infertile heterosexuals are forbidden from getting married.....right?

Look at nature.....genders are not messed up in the animal kingdom. They recognize their opposites and we know that reproduction is a strong instinct in all species.....it cannot take place without a male and female.

Yet almost half of same sex couples have children.

 

[TinMan]

I never said it was

I quoted you directly

 

[TinMan]

Recently, internet celebrities came forward claiming that many of the gays they personally know were molested and groomed by LGBTs when they were very young.

Its an interesting observation of the issue, which hasn't been publicized much before now.

Not publicized? That false claim has been going around for decades.

And it doesn't hold up under scrutiny. Study after study shows that until about the age of 12 to 14 gays and lesbians are no more and no less likely to have been sexually abused than their heterosexual counterparts. After the age of 14 the likely hood of a lesbians being sexually assaulted by a family member increases by a factor of 80. The data suggests that it is only teen lesbians are come out of the closet or are outed have this dramatic increase in sexual abuse.

 

[amigo de christo]

Identical twins don't share 100% of their DNA

In identical twins may or may not share identical genetic features, blood type, eye color, height, etc. the rate that twins will share these features in called concordance. Very few features have a 100% concordance, the only one i can find is blood type.

Eye color in identical twins has a 98% concordance meaning that if one twin has green eyes the other twon has a 98% chance of having green eyes. And it also means that on average for every 100 sets of identical twins two of those sets will have twins with different eye colors

Juvenile onset Type 1 diabetes is knowns to be caused by a gene on the 6th chromosome and it has on a 32% concordance. If one twin is a type 1 diabetic the other twin has a 32% chance of also being diabetic.

Multiple sclerosis has a concordance of30%

Left handedness has a concordance of 24%

Rheumatoid arthritis has a concordance of 12%

Homosexuality has a concordance of 54% to 65% depending on the source you refence. It is one of the highest concordance traits we know of

the biggest source for variation among twins actually comes from Epigenetic mechanisms which affect HOW genes are expressed. Epigenetics can act on identical genes in identical twins, say, by switching a gene off in one twin, while it remains on in the other.


This is all basic genetics.

Anything to defend a sin .
This is the problem in society . There is no gay gene my friend .
There is only sin . The thing is since flesh is subject unto sin , men do sin .
But there is a way out my friend . HIS NAME IS JESUS CHRIST .
All have sinned , but for the church to buy into a lie which would serve a sin , IS BLASPHEMOUS .
Thus we must point all to Christ with a simple message , REPENT and BELIEVE ON HIM
and then we are to teach and remind the church to die daily and fight against the flesh
by heeding the SPIRIT . THERE is no such thing as a mulsimchristain , a gaychristain
a lyingchristain , an etc . THERE IS only CHRIST and HIM CRUCIFIED . And if one does err
we go about correcting it as JESUS and later the apostels taught .
What we DONT DO is allow folks to believe THEY CAN EMBRACE SIN AND JESUS TOO . THAT is A LIE
and you will have to answer for it on JESUS day , LEST you repent of this nasty support of sin .

 

[amigo de christo]

And that is how they do decieve . Notice tin man cannot say the scriptures nor the letters of the apostels
spoke against that sin .
SO what did men do . THEY came in and started using a root word in greek to coax us all into believing a lie .
Just like the devil too .
HAS the bible really said , DID GOD really say that man cannot lie with man
NAY nay says the serpent and his men , THE GREEK WORD
really means , and their defintion then allows the sin to be accepted . it allows FOR DISOBEDANCE unto GOD .

 

[amigo de christo]

Just a word of caution . WHEN anyone brings in a greek word
and the ideal of what they say it means , WOULD BRING DIRECT disobediance unto what GOD has said .
DONT BUY IT .
Its a lie meant to bring in confusion by which one ends up accepting a lie and omitting the simple plain TRUTH .

 

[amigo de christo]

I mean heres an example just as sick as the example that tin man brings .
YE shall not lie with a beast .
Okay , well then whose to stop one from saying , LOOK at the greek root
then they try and make it seem like
GOD only meant this during temple worship .
GOTCHA TIN MAN . Yall been sold a rotted bill of goods .
We can do this all day . ANYONE can come along who has an agenda
and claim a greek word , then use said word to justify a lie .
And the agenda was , TO BRING HOMOSEXUALITY INTO the CHURCH , MAKE IT ACCEPTED . SO they did
they went to work with wise sounding men who used bad greek , but claimed it as right ,
ANYONE can do this .

 

[amigo de christo]

Dont fall for this PHILO beto junk . cause the one who does gets knocked out cold by the lie .
GOD simply meant what HE said and Said what he meant .

 

[Hobie]

And the fact is that we are ALL slaves to sin.

John 8: 34-36
Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who practices sin is a slaveb to sin. 35The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. 36So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed".

The fact is that we live in an evil world and are afflicted with the condition known as "sin" and we are INCAPABLE of not sinning.

1 John 5:19 esv
We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

Romans 7:18 esv
For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out.

My belief is that demonic and Satanic oppression is what pushes or compels us to engage in sin and, for some, that means engaging in homosexual behavior, for others it might mean getting drunk every night. It's all sin!

Ephesians 6:12 esv
For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.

We are responsible for our sins, but only to a point because ultimately, we cannot help but sin. We must try to resist sin, of course, but God has forgiven us for our sin as evidenced by the sacrifice of Jesus for ALL of mankind.

So, when people tell you that gay people have a "choice" to NOT be gay, that's not exactly true. Again, they have as much "choice" to not be gay as the critic does to not engage in sin.

So you don't believe in overcoming, and the power of God in helping overcome sin?

 

[Behold]

And the fact is that we are ALL slaves to sin.

Im not a slave to sin.
Paul was not a slave to sin.

If you are a slave to sin, its probably because you are not born again.

 

[Lambano]

So you don't believe in overcoming, and the power of God in helping overcome sin?

I believe He can; I'd just like to see a little more empirical evidence in the lives of believers that He does. Including my own.

Remember, sin is not just not doing the thou-shalt-nots. It's also heart attitudes: Pride, self-centeredness, craving things, craving attention, unwillingness to give up yourself for another's benefit (a.k.a. "love")...