marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
Obviously humour is not your speciality.I beg to differ. I feel like the church would be much better with more true Christians and less wolves in sheep's clothing.
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Obviously humour is not your speciality.I beg to differ. I feel like the church would be much better with more true Christians and less wolves in sheep's clothing.
Dear drivenfuture,So, I had written this online review of a church; but never posted, It mainly helped me get my thoughts out. I've thought many times that posting it would make me feel better. I really have no idea if it would or not. But it would certainly explain a lot. I want to stress there are so many issues besides this one, but at this point I just feel abused by most Christians; and that wouldn't be a problem if the secular world were treating me the same--but they're not. they're kinder, at that for me is a huge a problem. anyways, here's the review I never posted about that church:
It's been a long time since I've been to this church. I kept trying to think of why. There were a lot of things that happened, and we both played a part. I know that my actions certainly made the situation uncomfortable, there's no denying that. But I accepted that, and apologized, and as best as I could, accepted responsibility. The problem is that the pastor and his family did not take any responsibility. The pastor said my actions have consequences, the problem is that my actions were a consequence of his family's actions.
I served this church for 5 years, maintaining close friendships with many, including the pastor's family. I felt very close to the pastor's family, until one day, completely out of the blue, the pastor's family just ignored me. No discussion, no warning, no nothing. It was 100% complete abandonment. Then, in the midst of the abandonment, the pastor's son approached me to tell me I was barely tolerable.
This would lead to my first mental breakdown (long story short - Shizophrenic Bipolar), whereby I turned myself into the police, believing I had hurt them in someway. I said some pretty alarming things, no doubt, but in all of this, my concern as that I would rather sacrifice myself than to make them uncomfortable. So really, this is the only sticking point for their argument.
After a brief stay in the mental facility, I was advised to speak to the pastor by the assistant pastor. The assistant pastor said he does not think I offended the pastor's family. The pastor said the same...sort of. He said there's no animosity, and he doesn't feel slighted. So let me ask you, if I did nothing wrong, why in the world was I banned from Bible studies? His exact words were: "I can come to Main worship and Men's Breakfast." Now, I get the fact that Bible studies are smaller and there is the sense that things would be uncomfortable, but this seemed a bit too extreme to me.
I explained to the pastor that I felt like they didn't really want me there. He said, in these exact words, "Your feelings are not my responsibility," On the contrary, when you abandon someone without a word, and insult someone, their feelings are 100% your responsibility. We have a responsibility to each other, as Christians, to love one another in deed and truth, and understanding that your abandonment and your insults are spiritual murder are absolutely your responsibility.
Not only did he say that, but he also insisted I was welcome, and that they would treat me with kindness and respect. Then I would go home to find out his entire family had blocked me all over social media, which caused a great deal of confusion in my mind. I felt like I was receiving a million mixed signals.
A few weeks before this all happened, the pastor preached a message where he said something along the lines of, "If they knew this about me, could they still love me." It is true they saw a very messed up side of me. I don't blame them for being uncomfortable. But I wanted to believe, just once, that someone could see this very dark place of me, and say that they're still going to walk with me, and walk through it. Instead, I was shunned and ostracized, and the hard part to swallow is that the ostracism started just from me being annoying, not even from the dark place I had mentioned.
The pastor said we can't control what other people do, only how we respond. I suppose there is truth there that we can't control people, but I do sort of expect better from a pastor. He then said, "If someone does not want relationship, let them go, and embrace them when they come back," and also that their boundary was "Needing the space they need to process." Well, it's been 5 years, and I have given them tons of space. So now I have to say this was the pastor filling me with false hope.
What made this even more confusing, was that the pastor's family would also, years later, like my statuses on facebook, as if everything was just fine between us. It wasn't okay, certainly not in my eyes. There were a few people who reached out and told me they heard what had happened...and it became quite apparent that the story they got was very one-sided, of course with me having been cast as crazy.
I want to stress...I had minimal issues with other church members, and I love them dearly. They are some of the friendliest church members I have ever met, and I think they were caught in between a rock and a hard place regarding this situation. I even still love the pastor's family dearly in spite of everything that happened. I want to stress that I know I'm focusing on a few very painful months, but I also knew a really great side of the pastor's family for many years before that, too. I did feel like they were dedicated to helping me grow in my faith, I felt like they gave me a place to belong, which is why what happened was even so much more devastating. I also want to stress that they do have great relationships, so maybe your relationship with them will be better.
My ex-wife made a similar accusation against me. Just because I cannot always life up to my ideals does not mean that I don't strive for the ideals. And I think I am better off having these principles and live by them more than people who don't have such principles.I am not sure exactly what happened, but to say that there was a (NOT) discrepancy between what they were teaching in years past and what they started practicing would not be a fair statement.
When my son died I realized another disappointing fact about people; they are doing all they can to keep it together with normal life stresses. That is, most people are not able to help much.did they ever tell you directly that they they have something against you, or is it just an impression?
God will not force people against there will. If you have repented (if you did anything) and they refuse. You have done your part.. As an old saying goes. wipe the dust off your feet.. Its on them, not you.Also, I cannot fathom a God who forgives but refuses to restore relationship. That would be a cruel God who chooses who gets to be close and shuns the rest.
My Pastor has said changing one's social groups is one of the most difficult yet important things to do as your life transforms to be Christ-centered.God will not force people against there will. If you have repented (if you did anything) and they refuse. You have done your part.. As an old saying goes. wipe the dust off your feet.. Its on them, not you.
Changing social groups might help for a while, but this will not help you escape from the problem. If you are leaving a social group in which there are people you care about, your thoughts will turn towards that group long after leaving it. The best thing to do is to forgive them and find ways to show that you still care about them.My Pastor has said changing one's social groups is one of the most difficult yet important things to do as your life transforms to be Christ-centered.
"You have done your part." It takes Spiritual maturity to accept that and move on if the other person in the relationship is letting issues hold them back from living life as Christ intended. No sense doing laps. We can agree to disagree agreeably. Saying I love you but cannot keep having this conversation, having and sticking to healthy boundaries is so liberating and empowering.
Precious friend, A Very Warm Welcome to the Board.Changing social groups might help for a while, but this will not help you escape from the problem.
Not sure how you are defining the problem, then. Of course, forgive them, for we are commanded to do that.Changing social groups might help for a while, but this will not help you escape from the problem. If you are leaving a social group in which there are people you care about, your thoughts will turn towards that group long after leaving it. The best thing to do is to forgive them and find ways to show that you still care about them.
In the other hand, God did everything to reconcile us with Him. If we are to follow His example of love, we should not give up in showing love to those God loves.Not sure how you are defining the problem, then. Of course, forgive them, for we are commanded to do that.
ALthough it takes one to forgive and 2 to reconcile. It's fine to continue to show unbelievers that you care about them. However, rejecting Christ is not something we can reconcile. That IS an irreconcilable difference at a certain intimacy point in the relationship.
I’m not saying anything like not doing this. For some reason, you are equating boundaries with the absence of love.we should not give up in showing love to those God loves.
Drivenfuture mentioned feeling like everyone turned their backs on him instead of showing interest in helping him, and after a while, he even felt apologetic for feeling abandoned. Feelings of abandonment don’t come when one turns his or her back on others, but when others turn their backs on that one person. Obviously, without the specifics, the situation can be interpreted freely, but it sounds as if Drivenfuture is crying out for help and nobody is listening. Not only is he crying out for help, but at the same time he is trying to show everyone that he does not want to leave the church. It sounds as if the church does not want reconciliation, and without knowing the details of the story, this sounds like the bigger problem.ALthough it takes one to forgive and 2 to reconcile. It's fine to continue to show unbelievers that you care about them. However, rejecting Christ is not something we can reconcile. That IS an irreconcilable difference at a certain intimacy point in the relationship.
Sounds like? Who is the center of our lives?Drivenfuture mentioned feeling like everyone turned their backs on him instead of showing interest in helping him, and after a while, he even felt apologetic for feeling abandoned. Feelings of abandonment don’t come when one turns his or her back on others, but when others turn their backs on that one person. Obviously, without the specifics, the situation can be interpreted freely, but it sounds as if Drivenfuture is crying out for help and nobody is listening. Not only is he crying out for help, but at the same time he is trying to show everyone that he does not want to leave the church. It sounds as if the church does not want reconciliation, and without knowing the details of the story, this sounds like the bigger problem.
Not only details of the story are missing, but now it starts to sound hypothetical. In my initial comment to Drivenfuture I was saying that the best way to show feelings of sorrow and intent to reconcile is through actions which show that he still cares about the pastor’s family and church. Since he said that he already apologized, one step to reconciliation was already taken.Who is the center of our lives?
A. God
B. People who reject Christ?
Not only details of the story are missing, but now it starts to sound hypothetical.
It's not primarily about reconciliation but forgiveness.In my initial comment to Drivenfuture I was saying that the best way to show feelings of sorrow and intent to reconcile is through actions which show that he still cares about the pastor’s family and church.
Reconciliation starts with forgiveness, and in my understanding, forgiveness is remembering without holding grudges rather than simply avoiding the issue. And if forgiving starts with a person asking for forgiveness—or at least it used to start this way—forgiveness and reconciliation require both parties involved. Yes, it is good for the one who was wronged to let go, but true forgiveness ends with the wrongdoer accepting it.The word is principled. I wrote a principled response. Why do you suppose the details of the OP story must be included with every post?
It's not primarily about reconciliation but forgiveness.
We've already covered this ground. It takes one to forgive and 2 to reconcile. As I understand the story, the OP does not feel loved or cared about by the pastor’s family and church. While it may be praiseworthy to take additional action beyond forgiveness, it is not morally obligatory.
And here is where boundaries come in. We all are guilty of "doubling down" to try to reconcile, not wanting to admit the power to reconcile does not exclusively reside with us. He could simply take the direct approach; talk to the Pastor about his feelings.