Luke 21:20-22 Are We Close, Jerusalem Encompassed By Armies?

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Truth7t7

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Israel is surrounded by hostile nations presently, Palestine, Syria, Iraq, Iran, will they soon March towards Jerusalem?

Luke 21:20-22KJV
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
 
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3 Resurrections

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Luke 21:20-22KJV
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

The phrase "days of vengeance" tells us that this passage in Luke 21:20-22 was fulfilled in judgement against the first-century generation of Israel which were the "betrayers and murderers" of Christ in their days. God took vengeance against that generation of Israelites which killed His Son. It was the reason why Christ Jesus on the way to the cross told the weeping women to "weep not for me but for yourselves and your children..." Those women and the children to whom they gave birth were the ones who experienced all the disasters included in those "days of vengeance".

Whether Jerusalem today will again be encircled by hostile armies is not the point. If this does come about in our future, it will not be related at all to the "days of vengeance" which occurred from AD 66-70.
 

Truth7t7

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The phrase "days of vengeance" tells us that this passage in Luke 21:20-22 was fulfilled in judgement against the first-century generation of Israel which were the "betrayers and murderers" of Christ in their days. God took vengeance against that generation of Israelites which killed His Son. It was the reason why Christ Jesus on the way to the cross told the weeping women to "weep not for me but for yourselves and your children..." Those women and the children to whom they gave birth were the ones who experienced all the disasters included in those "days of vengeance".

Whether Jerusalem today will again be encircled by hostile armies is not the point. If this does come about in our future, it will not be related at all to the "days of vengeance" which occurred from AD 66-70.
I disagree with reformed preterist eschatology in 70AD fulfillment, the passage is a future event unfulfilled

Did Jesus return in a cloud in 70AD as scripture teaches below "NO", your only way out is to create a symbolic teaching of the second coming, this is factually a future literal event that hasn't been fulfilled

As stated the verses presented are future, and will culminate in the second coming of Jesus Christ in the heavens, and this didn't take place in 70AD

Luke 21:25-27KJV
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
 

JohnDB

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Euphrates River is dry....
Been dry for three decades now. It doesn't feed into the ocean anymore.

BUT....who is East of the Euphrates River with ANY real sort of power?
 

Scott Downey

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I disagree with reformed preterist eschatology in 70AD fulfillment, the passage is a future event unfulfilled

Did Jesus return in a cloud in 70AD as scripture teaches below "NO", your only way out is to create a symbolic teaching of the second coming, this is factually a future literal event that hasn't been fulfilled

As stated the verses presented are future, and will culminate in the second coming of Jesus Christ in the heavens, and this didn't take place in 70AD

Luke 21:25-27KJV
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
I agree, it does have a future yet to happen, but it also has a past which has happened in part.
 

marks

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Israel is surrounded by hostile nations presently, Palestine, Syria, Iraq, Iran, will they soon March towards Jerusalem?

Luke 21:20-22KJV
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
Myself, I think this was fulfilled in 70 AD, however, that Matthew 24, and other portions of Luke 21 remain to be fulfilled.

Much love!
 

Scott Downey

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luke 21.

20-24 happened in the past.
We are in the 'Times of the Gentiles'. Spoken also of in Romans 11 by Paul about Israel's blindness brought on them by God in His judgement against them.


25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own [f]opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be [g]saved, as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”
*******************************************************************

In Luke 21, v25 and all going forward is still in the future when Christ spoke these words. But v24 is relevant to what happened back then as confirmed by the statement Jerusalem trampled underfoot by the gentiles until their time is done.


v35 Jesus tells us it comes as a snare for all people who dwell on the face of the whole earth, so this here is no local event to Jerusalem.
Christ is teaching about things to come after the Roman destruction of Jerusalem.

Luke 21​

The Destruction of Jerusalem​

20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 22 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. 24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.


The Coming of the Son of Man​

25 “And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26 men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.”

The Parable of the Fig Tree​

29 Then He spoke to them a parable: “Look at the fig tree, and all the trees. 30 When they are already budding, you see and know for yourselves that summer is now near. 31 So you also, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near. 32 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place. 33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

The Importance of Watching​

34 “But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with [h]carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly. 35 For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch therefore, and pray always that you may [i]be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”
 
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3 Resurrections

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I disagree with reformed preterist eschatology in 70AD fulfillment, the passage is a future event unfulfilled

Did Jesus return in a cloud in 70AD as scripture teaches below "NO", your only way out is to create a symbolic teaching of the second coming, this is factually a future literal event that hasn't been fulfilled

As stated the verses presented are future, and will culminate in the second coming of Jesus Christ in the heavens, and this didn't take place in 70AD
You are free to disagree as much as you wish, but that doesn't change Christ's words about the timing of His second coming return before that first-century generation had passed away.

As He said in Matthew 16:27-28, there were some of those standing in front of Him who would not have died before He returned, accompanied by angels, and in the glory of His Father, to give rewards to everyone according to their works. This was a promised bodily return of Jesus Christ (NOT a symbolic one), which Zechariah had predicted would take place on the Mount of Olives. Which already happened back in AD 70 on the last day of the 1,335-day countdown given to us in Daniel 12:11-13.

That last, particular 1,335th day fell on the day of Pentecost in the AD 70 year. Daniel mentioned the last 45 days of that 1,335 period as being significant. This was when Titus and the Roman army had arrived to once again surround Jerusalem with armies in AD 70, after Passover week had begun. For those who waited those 45 days until the end of the total 1,335-day period (on Pentecost day that year), there was the promised blessing of a resurrection which the returning Christ performed - taking all the resurrected saints back to heaven with Him.

You and I are not waiting for the second coming. We are waiting for the third coming of Christ in our future, with its final resurrection and judgment.
 
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Truth7t7

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His second coming return before that first-century generation had passed away.

This was a promised bodily return of Jesus Christ (NOT a symbolic one), which Zechariah had predicted would take place on the Mount of Olives. Which already happened back in AD 70
Your claim that Jesus literally returned in the second coming in 70AD would be considered a heretical teaching by many and I agree 100%!

A third coming as you claim is out of the ball park, in the realm of God knows what

Jesus returns in the future, in fire and final judgement (The End)

Hebrews 9:28KJV
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
 
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Your claim that Jesus literally returned in the second coming in 70AD would be considered a heretical teaching by many and I agree 100%!

A third coming as you claim is out of the ball park, in the realm of God knows what

Jesus returns in the future, in fire and final judgement (The End)

Hebrews 9:28KJV
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Human history on this planet has continued to flow after Christ's second coming, as it is presented in scripture. Have you never recognized these texts? A third coming of Christ is absolutely essential so that those saints who live and die in this period after Christ's second coming will also receive a bodily resurrection, as promised for all the saints.

The verse you give from Hebrew 9:28 which describes Christ's "second time" in appearing does NOT negate a third coming. It is only describing the second coming appearance of Christ, which Christ said would happen before some of those He was speaking to in Matthew 16:27-28 had died. This second time of Christ's appearing already occurred in AD 70, at the end of Daniel's 1,335 days.

The "END" you mention is the same "END of all things" which 1 Peter 4:7 said was then "AT HAND" in his own days. But it was not said to be the end of all human history. It was the end of those particular "latter days" for Israel as the "holy people" before their power was shattered (Daniel 12:7), but not the end of all human history.

What would be a heresy would be to deny a future bodily resurrection for us. I have never said this, and scripture doesn't say this either. The charge of "heresy" is like the term "racism". Both are thrown around rather too freely where they do not apply.
 

Jack

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Zechariah 14:1-4
1 Behold, the day of the LORD is coming, ...
2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; ...
3 Then the LORD will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle.
4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east.

Future indeed!
 

3 Resurrections

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Zechariah 14:1-4
1 Behold, the day of the LORD is coming, ...
2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; ...
3 Then the LORD will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle.
4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east.

Future indeed!

Wrong, it is absolutely impossible for this Zechariah 14:1-4 prophecy to be in our future.

The entire prophecy of every one of those things prophesied to take place "In that day" is given from Zechariah 12 through Zechariah 14. This Zechariah 12-14 prophecy concentrated on Israel described a "siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem". Christ's return to the Mount of Olives would cause the members of those families and tribes of Israel to mourn deeply at seeing His return - families of the house of David, Nathan, Levi, and Shimei in particular.

HINT: there are no members of these tribes or families of Israel around anymore, and haven't been since the genealogical records were all burned up in the AD 70 fires that destroyed all the archives in Jerusalem. God used the civil war conditions brought by the competing Zealot leaders' armies to bring desolation to Jerusalem from within, even before the Roman army arrived for the second time in the spring of AD 70 to finish them off. The competing Zealot leaders and their armies which originated from "Galilee of the Gentiles (nations)" were the "nations" which God was going to destroy and fight against. And God used "His armies" of the Romans to accomplish that purpose against the Zealot armies inside Jerusalem. It was a fulfillment of the parable of the enraged King using "HIS armies" to destroy those murderers and burn up their city (Matthew 22:7).

Already fulfilled. All of it, back in the AD 66-70 siege period. Even the Pharisees of Christ's day "perceived that He spake of them" in His parables (Matthew 21:45). They knew this prophecy of Jerusalem being burned up and the murderers destroyed was intended to speak against themselves and their own fate of destruction.
 
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Jack

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Wrong, it is absolutely impossible for this Zechariah 14:1-4 prophecy to be in our future.

The entire prophecy of every one of those things prophesied to take place "In that day" is given from Zechariah 12 through Zechariah 14. This Zechariah 12-14 prophecy concentrated on Israel described a "siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem". Christ's return to the Mount of Olives would cause the members of those families and tribes of Israel to mourn deeply at seeing His return - families of the house of David, Nathan, Levi, and Shimei in particular.

HINT: there are no members of these tribes or families of Israel around anymore, and haven't been since the genealogical records were all burned up in the AD 70 fires that destroyed all the archives in Jerusalem. God used the civil war conditions brought by the competing Zealot leaders' armies to bring desolation to Jerusalem from within, even before the Roman army arrived for the second time in the spring of AD 70 to finish them off. The competing Zealot leaders and their armies which originated from "Galilee of the Gentiles (nations)" were the "nations" which God was going to destroy and fight against. And God used "His armies" of the Romans to accomplish that purpose against the Zealot armies inside Jerusalem. It was a fulfillment of the parable of the enraged King using "HIS armies" to destroy those murderers and burn up their city.

Already fulfilled. All of it, back in the AD 66-70 siege period.
What a Preterist imagination!
 

Jack

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I notice that you aren't even bothering to address the language of the scriptures involved....
So when did this happen?

Zechariah 14:12
12 And this shall be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet, Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets, And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.