SALVATION OF ANIMALS

[Aunty Jane]

personally, I have no problem with Jesus Christ being One with the Father in agreement, mind and voice.

That is what unity is all about…agreement, peace and harmony…so in the absence of that in Christendom, what are we to conclude?

The command in Rev 18:4-5 is clear…. but what is not clear is the identification of this harlot…..
Why is she called “Babylon the great”…..
What is there about original Babylon that we see emulated in this entity….one said to have “a kingdom over the kings of the earth”? She influences the governing powers and if we look at history we see who it was that influenced the actions of those kings down through the time described in Daniel’s prophesy…..False religion has always governed the rulers of the dynasties that have come and gone…..but in “the time of the end”….it was the church.

I also don’t have any problem that New Jerusalem which is above and the mother of us all also being One with the Father and the Son. I look at the Body of Christ and how it’s supposed to be “One Body” “One voice” “One mind” . Not all the quarrels and divisions and envy. You said: either God is One entity and Jesus Christ the Son or we are being lied to.

The “body of Christ” is mentioned often in these discussions, but who make up “the body of Christ”?
Something Jesus said raises a question…..

Ater he had cleansed the Temple of the moneychagers….
“…the Jews said to him, “What sign do you show us for doing these things?” Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” The Jews then said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will you raise it up in three days?” But he was speaking about the temple of his body. When therefore he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this, and they believed the Scripture and the word that Jesus had spoken.“ (John 2:18-22 ESV)

What are we to make of this statement? What was “the temple of his body”? And how did Christ raise it up?
In three days God resurrected his son but he did not return to heaven straight away….he remained for 40 days in order to get his disciples over his terrible death, and to give them encouragement for the difficult days ahead.
Imagine how Peter felt when the last encounter with his Lord was seeing his face when the rooster crowed….and weeping bitterly at his failure. Jesus restored Peter’s confidence with forgiveness and he gave him an important assignment to show that his human frailties were not the end of the world.

So there was much at this point that the apostles did not fully understand….Jesus returning to heaven was one of them…..as he was ascending they asked him a very Jewish question…

”Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?” (Acts 1:6)….He told them to wait in Jerusalem for the promised holy spirit when all would be made clear to them. Jewish belief was that God’s kingdom was earthly, with an earthly temple and priesthood and Messiah as leader. Though Jesus had taught them many things, they did not quite grasp the spiritual nature of the Kingdom and that their destiny would be in heaven.
At Pentecost, all of that changed, and they were anointed with God’s spirit for life in heaven and understood for the first time, that they would join their Lord where he had promised to go and “prepare a place” for them.

The physical Temple was no longer of any consequence since Christ had fulfilled the law and taken it out of the way. No sacrifices were now needed in a physical temple. So his words to the Jews about the temple being destroyed had a two fold meaning……the literal temple would be destroyed but “the temple of his body” would be restored.…..since his disciples were said to be “the temple” of his body…Paul wrote…

”Do you not know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that the spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If anyone destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him; for the temple of God is holy, and you are that temple.” (Col 3:16-17)

So Jesus’ reference to the temple being rebuilt in 3 days was indicating that he as the chief cornerstone would be made alive, and that the way was now open for the grand spiritual temple in heaven to be built on the foundation of the 12 apostles. (Rev 21:14) These would be resurrected later and joined by other anointed Christians. But since they are a finite number (144,000) there is another group seen by John in Revelation who are without number…..”a great multitude” who are seen attributing their salvation to God and to the Lamb. These he said “come out of the great tribulation” which occurs on earth…these are the faithful survivors. (Rev 7:9-10, 13-14) These will come out to an earth cleansed of all wickedness to start again as Noah did. (Matt 24:37-39)

A careful study of the Scriptures reveals much that is not known or taught by Christendom. God’s spirit is absent and therefore they poke around in the dark…suggesting all kinds of things that are in contradiction.

The Bible is one story…one truth…one author. We should not stumble over the basic simplicity of its message.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

That is what unity is all about…agreement, peace and harmony…so in the absence of that in Christendom, what are we to conclude?

The command in Rev 18:4-5 is clear…. but what is not clear is the identification of this harlot…..
Why is she called “Babylon the great”…..
What is there about original Babylon that we see emulated in this entity….one said to have “a kingdom over the kings of the earth”? She influences the governing powers and if we look at history we see who it was that influenced the actions of those kings down through the time described in Daniel’s prophesy…..False religion has always governed the rulers of the dynasties that have come and gone…..but in “the time of the end”….it was the church.

The “body of Christ” is mentioned often in these discussions, but who make up “the body of Christ”?
Something Jesus said raises a question…..

Ater he had cleansed the Temple of the moneychagers….
“…the Jews said to him, “What sign do you show us for doing these things?” Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” The Jews then said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will you raise it up in three days?” But he was speaking about the temple of his body. When therefore he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this, and they believed the Scripture and the word that Jesus had spoken.“ (John 2:18-22 ESV)

What are we to make of this statement? What was “the temple of his body”? And how did Christ raise it up?
In three days God resurrected his son but he did not return to heaven straight away….he remained for 40 days in order to get his disciples over his terrible death, and to give them encouragement for the difficult days ahead.
Imagine how Peter felt when the last encounter with his Lord was seeing his face when the rooster crowed….and weeping bitterly at his failure. Jesus restored Peter’s confidence with forgiveness and he gave him an important assignment to show that his human frailties were not the end of the world.

So there was much at this point that the apostles did not fully understand….Jesus returning to heaven was one of them…..as he was ascending they asked him a very Jewish question…

”Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?” (Acts 1:6)….He told them to wait in Jerusalem for the promised holy spirit when all would be made clear to them. Jewish belief was that God’s kingdom was earthly, with an earthly temple and priesthood and Messiah as leader. Though Jesus had taught them many things, they did not quite grasp the spiritual nature of the Kingdom and that their destiny would be in heaven.
At Pentecost, all of that changed, and they were anointed with God’s spirit for life in heaven and understood for the first time, that they would join their Lord where he had promised to go and “prepare a place” for them.

The physical Temple was no longer of any consequence since Christ had fulfilled the law and taken it out of the way. No sacrifices were now needed in a physical temple. So his words to the Jews about the temple being destroyed had a two fold meaning……the literal temple would be destroyed but “the temple of his body” would be restored.…..since his disciples were said to be “the temple” of his body…Paul wrote…

”Do you not know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that the spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If anyone destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him; for the temple of God is holy, and you are that temple.” (Col 3:16-17)

So Jesus’ reference to the temple being rebuilt in 3 days was indicating that he as the chief cornerstone would be made alive, and that the way was now open for the grand spiritual temple in heaven to be built on the foundation of the 12 apostles. (Rev 21:14) These would be resurrected later and joined by other anointed Christians. But since they are a finite number (144,000) there is another group seen by John in Revelation who are without number…..”a great multitude” who are seen attributing their salvation to God and to the Lamb. These he said “come out of the great tribulation” which occurs on earth…these are the faithful survivors. (Rev 7:9-10, 13-14) These will come out to an earth cleansed of all wickedness to start again as Noah did. (Matt 24:37-39)

A careful study of the Scriptures reveals much that is not known or taught by Christendom. God’s spirit is absent and therefore they poke around in the dark…suggesting all kinds of things that are in contradiction.

The Bible is one story…one truth…one author. We should not stumble over the basic simplicity of its message.

I’m trying …let’s see if I understand you correctly. Are you saying that the question is who is “the body of Christ”. And the answer is (I’m asking here) “the body of Christ” is those selected or anointed for heaven? What I hear in what you shared is Jesus was referring to the temple being built “in heaven”? Are you saying those chosen for the restored earth are not a part of “the body of Christ” and that is a common misunderstanding others make in who is a part of the body of Christ?

Have i misunderstood? Are you suggesting only those anointed for heaven ‘are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together grows unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom you also are build up together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.’ Ephesians 2:20-22

 

[Peterlag]

As far as witnessing to your dog:
You need to "bark in the spirit", maybe your dog will respond.
People barked at the Toronto Blessing Revival Meetings.



(Of course what that was all about is another story.)

I have heard about barking in another bark. But never barking in the spirit.

 

[Aunty Jane]

I’m trying …let’s see if I understand you correctly. Are you saying that the question is who is “the body of Christ”. And the answer is (I’m asking here) “the body of Christ” is those selected or anointed for heaven? What I hear in what you shared is Jesus was referring to the temple being built “in heaven”? Are you saying those chosen for the restored earth are not a part of “the body of Christ” and that is a common misunderstanding others make in who is a part of the body of Christ?

Not all who love Jehovah and his son are chosen for a role in heaven. The Kingdom has 144,000 rulers who are also priests. (Rev 20:6) Rulers need subjects, and sinners need priests to intercede for them and lead them in worship. All who are resurrected back to life on earth are still in need of priests because the vast majority who are returned to life have never known the true God and will need to be educated and led in true worship.
In Rev 7 there are two groups pictured….one numbered and the other without number…both are connected to the Lamb.

“And I saw another angel ascending from the sunrise, having a seal of the living God; and he called with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, 3 saying: “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until after we have sealed the slaves of our God in their foreheads.”

4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed, 144,000, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel“. (Rev 7:2-4)

This is not fleshly Israel but spiritual Israel, chosen by God to replace his disobedient people. Jesus passed sentence on them in Matt 23:37-39.…and at his trial, they passed sentence on themselves. They cursed themselves with Christ’s blood. (Matt 27:25) To this day they still reject Jesus as Messiah.

Then he goes on to describe a second unnumbered group….
”After this I saw, and look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands. 10 And they keep shouting with a loud voice, saying: “Salvation we owe to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb.” . . . .”In response one of the elders said to me: “These who are dressed in the white robes, who are they and where did they come from?” 14 So right away I said to him: “My lord, you are the one who knows.” And he said to me: “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.”

Rev 14:1-5 also describes the chosen ones….
”Then I saw, and look! the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who have his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads. 2 I heard a sound coming out of heaven like the sound of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder; and the sound that I heard was like singers who accompany themselves by playing on their harps. 3 And they are singing what seems to be a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders, and no one was able to master that song except the 144,000, who have been bought from the earth. 4 These are the ones who did not defile themselves with women; in fact, they are virgins. These are the ones who keep following the Lamb no matter where he goes. These were bought from among mankind as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb, 5 and no deceit was found in their mouths; they are without blemish.”

As an agricultural nation, “firstfruits” were well known as the first ripe pick of the crop, the very best of it, compared to the lesser quality of the secondary fruits. Their “virginity” is spiritual as there are married people among them…..and they are bought (purchased) from among mankind for their proven faith unto death. (1 Cor 7:23)

Have i misunderstood? Are you suggesting only those anointed for heaven ‘are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together grows unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom you also are build up together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.’ Ephesians 2:20-22

You got it….the body of Christ is a finite group, indwelt with God’s spirit and convicted unshakably of their calling. At Heb 3:1, Paul alludes to those who have “the heavenly calling”, which would be meaningless if all had such a calling…

 

[Gottservant]

The Bible at the end of one of the gospels says "Jesus said "go out into the world and preach the Gospel to every creature" (my italics).

That to me, is pretty clear!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

You got it….the body of Christ is a finite group, indwelt with God’s spirit and convicted unshakably of their calling. At Heb 3:1, Paul alludes to those who have “the heavenly calling”, which would be meaningless if all had such a calling…

Now I understand why we have such a problem understanding one another. There doesn’t seem to be many verses in the bible where we agree. It’s sad but true. I get you are convinced you are right. We all are convince we are right. I think I’m part of the body of Christ.

If you lived close by we could go get ice cream. We would have to find something to talk about other than a scripture though, and leave off the who is right and who is wrong . thank you for taking the time you to respond to my post with such sincerity.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Now I understand why we have such a problem understanding one another. There doesn’t seem to be many verses in the bible where we agree. It’s sad but true. I get you are convinced you are right. We all are convince we are right. I think I’m part of the body of Christ.

It’s funny that you should mention that because we have a saying…..if you “think” you are one of the anointed, you aren’t. The anointed KNOW that they are…the conviction is so strong that they lament being in the flesh and long for their transformation…..people like me OTOH, are grateful to have a wonderful opportunity to live in the sort of conditions that God first purposed for mankind…..with the best government we could imagine. Where we serve God doesn’t matter…..we will love it anyway.

Rev 21:2-4….
“And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.” (ESV)

This is how it ends….God’s dwelling is with “man”….he can finally have personal interaction with us, when the barrier of sin is removed. We will no longer need our Mediator because God will be reconciled with his human creation and his purpose can go ahead…whatever he has planned for our future will be unimpeded by sin.
I can’t wait to see what the future holds once we have these conditions on earth….

If you lived close by we could go get ice cream. We would have to find something to talk about other than a scripture though, and leave off the who is right and who is wrong . thank you for taking the time you to respond to my post with such sincerity.

We each perhaps have a better understanding of the other’s beliefs. Are you a member of any particular denomination?

Ice cream sounds great! Vanilla is my favorite. Just because we don’t think the same or believe the same, doesn’t mean we can’t be friends….not all my friends are JW’s, but I have most in common with my spiritual brothers and sisters. We never run out of things to talk about and the Bible is our favorite topic….
We are perpetual Bible students so we compare notes sometimes, as the diamond has many facets.

Blessings….

 

[keithr]

God is Spirit…His word, His body, His breath, His 7 Spirits…are ALL the SAME ONE SPIRIT.

Careful, you might be spreading more confusion there! Some people might interpret what you wrote as God is not "three persons in one" but is "nine persons in one" (God, Jesus and seven spirits)! (Although, of course, God is one person only - "You believe that God is one. You do well. The demons also believe, and shudder", James 2:19.)

If you're getting that from Revelation 1:4-5 (WEB):

(4) John, to the seven assemblies that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from God, who is and who was and who is to come; and from the seven Spirits who are before his throne;​

(5) and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us, and washed us from our sins by his blood;​

then note that the seven spirits are in front of God's throne - seperate from God. It's saying, to paraphrase, "Grace and peace to you from God, Jesus and the seven spirits". It is not saying that God, Jesus and the seven spirits are all one being, or all one spirit. Read further and you will find, Revelation 8:2 (WEB):

(2) I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and seven trumpets were given to them.​

These may be archangels. In the Apocrypha, it says, Tobit 12:15 (WEBA):

(15) I am Raphael, one of the seven holy angels, which present the prayers of the saints, and go in before the glory of the Holy One.”​

So these are seven angels, and not seven parts of God's being.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

It’s funny that you should mention that because we have a saying…..if you “think” you are one of the anointed, you aren’t.

1 Corinthians 7:39 Lexicon: A wife is bound as long as her husband lives; but if her husband is dead, she is free to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord.
1 Corinthians 7:40 Lexicon: But in my opinion she is happier if she remains as she is; and I think that I also have the Spirit of God.
To “think I am” isn’t a dirty word to me.
I like the word “persuaded” too though. Okay, I don’t “think” I’m part of the body of Christ… I am “persuaded” I am a part of the body of Christ. I find “let every one be persuaded in their own mind” helpful. Not only am I “persuaded” I am a part of the body of Christ, I am also “persuaded” that you are a part of the body of Christ.

yet I also see in your mind, you are persuaded otherwise.

The anointed KNOW that they are…the conviction is so strong that they lament being in the flesh and long for their transformation

See, that is what is sad to me. In JW theology only those selected for heaven being in the flesh lament and long for “their” transformation. Those earth dwellers are of a sub-group excluded from “the body of Christ” not being “anointed”; yet that is seen as a token of “humility” on those not “anointed” selected for heaven, those not “the body of Christ”
Yet….the qualities you mention below of those “grateful” in “where we serve God doesn’t matter …we will love it anyway.” IS a part of the body of Christ (Imo)

people like me OTOH, are grateful to have a wonderful opportunity to live in the sort of conditions that God first purposed for mankind…..with the best government we could imagine. Where we serve God doesn’t matter…..we will love it anyway.

Rev 21:2-4….
“And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.” (ESV)

This is how it ends….God’s dwelling is with “man”….he can finally have personal interaction with us, when the barrier of sin is removed. We will no longer need our Mediator because God will be reconciled with his human creation and his purpose can go ahead…whatever he has planned for our future will be unimpeded by sin.
I can’t wait to see what the future holds once we have these conditions on earth….

I don’t disagree. I only disagree with the interpretation of …. Now I must be self delusional to even consider myself a part of the body of Christ. Because all those passage on the body speaks of “those anointed” and “those selected” for heaven only. All of it to me is …to understand I would have start over and read the whole bible differently. I’m not trying to be ugly but instead tell you honestly what I think, no…what I’m persuaded of in my mind.

For example
1 Corinthians 15:47-The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthly, such are they also that are earthly: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthly, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

Do JW’s believe ^those that bear the image of the heavenly are only those anointed and selected to go to heaven? Only those who belong to the body of Christ built on the foundations of Christ and the prophets and Apostles? Which you say excludes you and almost all JW’s? Do I understand that correctly?

We each perhaps have a better understanding of the other’s beliefs. Are you a member of any particular denomination?

I grew up baptist. But now I’m nondenominational.

Ice cream sounds great! Vanilla is my favorite. Just because we don’t think the same or believe the same, doesn’t mean we can’t be friends….not all my friends are JW’s, but I have most in common with my spiritual brothers and sisters. We never run out of things to talk about and the Bible is our favorite topic….
We are perpetual Bible students so we compare notes sometimes, as the diamond has many facets.

Blessings….

Chocolate is my favorite. You and me…you with your Vanilla, and me with my chocolate why do we have to be so opposite. I think you are pretty awesome. I wouldn’t stop being your friend because we see things differently.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Ofcourse, man was made in the IMAGE of God. THE BODY…We know man’s body walks upright on two feet, has two arms, etc. And multiple scriptures reveal the knowledge about God…
Walking, talking, eating, drinking, etc.

Man was made in the LIKENESS of God.
Ie. Capability of THE BODY.
Thinking, reasoning, comprehending, understanding, choosing, liking, disliking, etc.

The LIVING SOUL, (in a man) ie. BODY, gives that body, the ABILITY to USE it’s SENSES, “sight, hearing, smell, touch, taste, feeling”…
And SO ALSO DO Animals….have a SOUL, (Gods breath of life), that they also see, “hear, smell, touch, taste, feel”.

While an ANIMAL can be taught COMMANDS….they LACK THE LIKENESS OF God and manKIND, in that they can not Comprehend the concept of BELIEF IN God, Nor are they THUS given the gift of FAITH,
Nor can they SIN (which IS to disbelieve IN the Lord God).
THEY neither BELIEVE or DISBELIEVE.
But they DO HAVE A SOUL (Gods breath of Life).

Can you comprehend…?
THEY…? Animals two and two.
Wherein IS the breath of Life.


Gen 7
[15] And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.
[22] All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.

God has an ORDER and WAY of revealing His Knowledge. Little by Little, Bit by Bit, SAME as a man teaches a new born babe, a toddler, a youth, a teen….all in preparation to be an ADULT who has Gods Truth, BEFORE he is exposed to the CORRUPT men “OF” this world. And we see the miserable FAILURE and RESULTS of the millions of children having grown into adult-hood without the TRUTH, and falling for corrupt, idiotic, mindful nonsense and utterly poor (lacking) in spirit and continuing on with their corrupt soul, seeing and doing unspeakable dastardly things, and being proud and boastful of their deeds. Shameful.

God Bless you,
Taken

So are you agreeing or disagreeing with me?

They have nephesh(Hebrew) soul. The OT did not distinguish between soul and body.

But they do not have psuche (greek) soul. That is reserved for man alone.

 

[keithr]

The majority of those who have an assignment in heaven are already in place waiting for the remaining ones of their number to join them, so that God’s Kingdom can bring all things back into harmony with God’s original purpose for mankind. (Isa 55:11)

That's not in agreement with the Scriptures, which says that the whole Church, the whole body of Christ, are resurrected as spirit beings or changed to a spirit being (if still alive) at more or less the same time, and then the whole church at the same time are caught up to be with Jesus who then takes them to their new homes in heaven:

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 (WEB):

(15) For this we tell you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will in no way precede those who have fallen asleep.​

(16) For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with God’s trumpet. The dead in Christ will rise first,​

(17) then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. So we will be with the Lord forever.​

John 14:2-3 (WEB):

(2) In my Father’s house are many homes. If it weren’t so, I would have told you. I am going to prepare a place for you.​

(3) If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and will receive you to myself; that where I am, you may be there also.​

The very fact that there are two classes of ”Christians” is clearly stated in the scriptures.….

Where is it stated that there are two classes of Christians? Paul stated that we are all equal in Christ, Galatians 3:27-28 (WEB):

(27) For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.​

(28) There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.​

I presume that you are referring to the 144,000 mentioned in Revelation 7 and 14. These are men living on the earth, and are not destined to go to heaven. In chapter 7 there are 144,000 Jewish men living on the earth who are sealed. In chapter 14 the 144,000 are again on the earth, on mount Zion. It never says that they go to heaven; it says that they were "redeemed by Jesus from among men, the first fruits to God and to the Lamb" - the first of the humans to gain eternal life. All Christians will have been changed to spirit beings and living in heaven, and made kings and priests, reigning with Jesus, before the 144,000 are sealed:

Revelation 5:10 (WEB):

(10) and made us kings and priests to our God, and we will reign on the earth.”​

Revelation 20:6 (WEB):

(6) Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over these, the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with him one thousand years.​

 

[Triumph1300]

But never barking in the spirit.

Where have you been? Lol.

 

[Triumph1300]

The Bible at the end of one of the gospels says "Jesus said "go out into the world and preach the Gospel to every creature" (my italics).

That to me, is pretty clear!

Ok, that settles it.
I am going to visit that big ant hill in the bush behind my place.
Those ants need to be saved.

 

[Peterlag]

Where have you been? Lol.

I have been busy. I put a book out about walking by the spirit. But nothing about barking by the spirit.

 

[Taken]

Careful, you might be spreading more confusion there! Some people might interpret what you wrote as God is not "three persons in one" but is "nine persons in one" (God, Jesus and seven spirits)! (Although, of course, God is one person only - "You believe that God is one. You do well. The demons also believe, and shudder", James 2:19.)

If you're getting that from Revelation 1:4-5 (WEB):

(4) John, to the seven assemblies that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from God, who is and who was and who is to come; and from the seven Spirits who are before his throne;​

(5) and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us, and washed us from our sins by his blood;​

then note that the seven spirits are in front of God's throne - seperate from God. It's saying, to paraphrase, "Grace and peace to you from God, Jesus and the seven spirits". It is not saying that God, Jesus and the seven spirits are all one being, or all one spirit. Read further and you will find, Revelation 8:2 (WEB):

(2) I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and seven trumpets were given to them.​

These may be archangels. In the Apocrypha, it says, Tobit 12:15 (WEBA):

(15) I am Raphael, one of the seven holy angels, which present the prayers of the saints, and go in before the glory of the Holy One.”​

So these are seven angels, and not seven parts of God's being.

Hi -
My belief IS:
The Lord God Almighty IS:
ONE SUPREME Omnipresent, Omniscience, Omnipotent HOLY SPIRIT GOD
* Having multiple Names, Titles, Attributes, Descriptions, Abilities, Powers, etc.
* That which TRANSCENDS His own Creations and Makings.

The THREE are ONE, is how some condense their description of God.

The SEVEN Spirits “OF” God is a reference to THE ONE “OMNIPOTENT” (all POWERFUL)…
THE ONE “WHOLE” Spirit OF God…An ATTRIBUTE God Possesses, and GIVES “portions” TO “they” whom God wills (chooses).

The “WHOLE” SPIRIT of God,
IS His omnipotence…
IS His absolute beyond measure…POWER
IS His….GLORY.

His GLORY, He “gives to NO ONE”.
Portions “OF” His GLORY, He “gives to WHOM “He wills” (Chooses).

What “PORTIONS” of Gods GLORY (POWER), He Does “Give” to “particular” INDIVIDUALS…OF His Creations…
* be they created angel spirit celestials.
(Holy and or having fallen from holiness)
* be they created earthly terrestrials.
(According to their KINDS, man or animals)
….It IS “given” from God “according to HIS, will and pleasure.

Point being….
God Never “GIVES” the WHOLE of His “POWER” (Glory), to ANYONE.

God DOES “GIVE” PORTIONS of His “POWER” (Glory), to WHOM He wills.

And a “fairly basic list of (7) POWERS God “DOES” give to man-KIND” in a measure, is revealed in Gods written Word, Expressly FOR the benefit of manKIND, TO KNOW, that which GOD IS, and that which may be a possibility for ManKIND to RECEIVE “from God”.

Isa 11:
1) The Spirit of the LORD
2) The Spirit of wisdom
3) The Spirit of understanding
4) The Spirit of counsel
5) The Spirit of power
6) The Spirit of knowledge
7) The Spirit of the fear of the Lord

SEVEN, is repeatedly revealed in Scripture regarding Gods DIVINE WHOLE PERFECTION.

1 Cor 12:
Expounds more ABOUT such Blessing God GIVES to manKIND.
In that….this is given this man, this is given that man…severally dividing that NO ONE man Receives the WHOLENESS of Gods POWER (Glory).

Individual men being RECIPIENTS of “this or that” Power of God, IS:
So to speak, God providing the “TOOLS” unto an individual, “FOR” the individual to “accomplish” a task, a service, the Lord God has set before that individual, and that individual agreed to “do as the Lord God desired that individual TO DO”.

And the BOTTOM LINE IS:
It is by, through, of the ONE SAME SPIRIT, WHO IS God…which God Grants individual beings to be MADE “partial” recipients “OF His POWER”.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Ok, that settles it.
I am going to visit that big ant hill in the bush behind my place.
Those ants need to be saved.

Those ants…creeping crawling things, animals do not SIN, thus do not require soul Saving.
However IF you Find an Ant hill, or any creeping crawling thing, or any animal in distress and want to offer a helping hand, by all means do so.

Scripture is orally preached, written FOR the benefit of manKIND…not FOR other created and made beings called Angels and Animals.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Cassandra]

Why are you quoting from the NWT just for me? I am not a Jehovah's Witness!

The Hebrew word translated in verse 21 as spirit is ruach, not the word nephesh that was used in all the Old testament verses referred to in my previous post.

Apologies, and I believe that Godbreathed the breath of life and man became a living soul. Nephesh sounds like personality to me, not an actual spirit.
That does not take away from God resurrecting beloved pets.

 

[Peterlag]

Apologies, and I believe that Godbreathed the breath of life and man became a living soul. Nephesh sounds like personality to me, not an actual spirit.
That does not take away from God resurrecting beloved pets.

I do not believe pets are self aware. They seem to have a brain of a 3 year old human and in many ways work out of instincts.

 

[Taken]

So are you agreeing or disagreeing with me?

I agree with Gods Word.
Mans Form is called a BODY.
Mans BODY is formed by God, out of Dust of the earth.
The Life of the BODY is BLOOD.
The Earth, is mans Bodily Habitat/Estate.
The Earth, contains the minerals, nutrients, air, water, animals, to sustain the LIFE of the Body.

All souls belong to God.
The LIFE IN the soul is Gods BREATH.
The LIFE IN the soul belongs to God.
Gods GIVES, soul LIFE, to manKINDS bodies.
God TAKES AWAY Life from manKINDS bodies…
…Their BLOOD LIFE.
…Gods SOUL and it’s LIFE.
THE BODY, ceases LIVING.
THE SOUL, departed OUT of the DEAD BODY, “CONTINUES LIVING, CONTINUES maintaining GODS BREATH….”
UNTIL Judgement day…
AT which TIME…
* God will depart HIS Life from “Unsaved” souls, and that LIFE shall return to God…
And that SOUL destroyed.
* Saved souls shall be KEPT alive with Gods Breath of Life, FOR EVER.

They have nephesh(Hebrew) soul. The OT did not distinguish between soul and body.

OT is not the WHOLE…
Secret things OF God Belongs to God.
Secret things OF God REVEALED to manKIND, thereafter, BELONGS to manKIND.

Relationships BETWEEN manKIND and God, in application to OT men…applied to men IN THAT ERA…
THEY KNEW, body’s died.
THEY KNEW, body’s life was BLOOD.
THEY KNEW, body’s had SOULS in them.
THEY KNEW, the SOULS LIFE was Gods Breath.
THEY KNEW, LIVING SOULS, with it’s LIFE, departed OUT OF DEAD BODY’S.
THEY KNEW, THEY buried DEAD, stinking, soon to be rotting, decaying BODY’S.
THEY KNEW, God SAVED some souls, (via RESTORATION, (pss 23:3) via Gods POWER).
THEY KNEW, God would “arrange”, SAVED Departed Living souls, to be SENT to “Gods presence”….AND…UN-SAVED Departed Living souls, to be SENT to “hell”.

OT did not REVEAL MANY things to OT manKIND.
Scripture reveals MANY things were KEPT Secret from OT men.

A “part” of Jesus’ “mission” ON EARTH, was to “REVEAL” a great number of things “that which HAD been KEPT Secret”.

It is likened to the history of a single created manKIND of being, beginning as an IGNORANT babe, on a journey through his individual life, increasing in growth size, increasing in knowledge, increasing in experiences, increasing in weighing, balancing his gained knowledge and deciding and choosing WHAT to DO with his Knowledge….
For 4,000 years, men increased in such things, WHILE bit by bit being INTRODUCED to Gods “guidance and PREFERENCES”, that which HE would Delight and Bless men, WHO chose to ACT, according to Gods guidance of WHICH things for manKIND to KNOW, BELIEVE and Freely CHOOSE TO DO “according TO GOD”.

Part of Jesus’ Mission, was to “exponentially” INCREASE / REVEAL “manKINDS KNOWLEDGE AND UNDERSTANDING”…regarding Gods desire and preference FOR manKIND to KNOW and UNdERSTAND…AND freely Choose to Receive and thereafter, RECEIVE FROM the Lord God.

. But they do not have psuche (greek) soul. That is reserved for man alone.

Saving of a corrupt soul, BACK to a restored, “VERY GOOD” soul, (as it was when God gave a soul to a manKIND of being)…IS reserved for manKIND alone.

That does NOT mean, Animals HAVE NO SOUL. It means AN Animals SOUL “does not require SAVING”.

Animals HAVE SOULS … IN “THEIR” living body’s. “THEIR” living body’s:
Are NOT naturally conceived in SIN.
Are NOT naturally born in SIN.
Do NOT naturally commit SIN.
THUS…the SOULS in “THEIR” body’s are NOT corrupted BY SIN.
THUS…the SOULS in “THEIR” body’s
DO NOT require to be “MADE” saved, or “MADE” forgiven, or to be “MADE” “soul restored, ie. soul SAVED”.

ManKINDS flesh is naturally conceived and born IN Sin. The born babe RECEIVES it’s soul….called VERY GOOD, from God…and immediately, that VERY GOOD soul, becomes CORRUPTED, by SIMPLY BEING IN a Corrupted BODY.

It follows the idiom of the SILVER LINING…
It may appear hopeless for a VERY GOOD soul to be Imparted into a Corrupt Body and subject to the acts and deeds of a Corrupt Body….

However … God OFFERED manKIND an order and way…to overcome the influence of a VERY GOOD soul, being corrupted by BEING IN a Corrupt BODY.
(Belief of that BODY to BELIEVE in GOD, during the moment of THAT body’s physical Death)…

Further… God through JESUS OFFERED manKIND and NEW order and way….to overcome the influence of a VERY GOOD soul, being corrupted by BEING IN a Corrupt BODY….BEFORE THAT BODY’S PHYSICAL death.
(Inanutshell…Heartful Belief in the Lord God and Confession thereof and Promising their Body IN Death unto the Lord God…in short, all that entails Gods order and way, to be Crucified with Christ Jesus, and desiring and accepting of the Baptism of Gods Holy Spirit of Truth.)

That ^^^ is neither necessary, required, offered, or given to Animals, or BTW…angels.


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[keithr]

Isa 11:
1) The Spirit of the LORD
2) The Spirit of wisdom
3) The Spirit of understanding
4) The Spirit of counsel
5) The Spirit of power
6) The Spirit of knowledge
7) The Spirit of the fear of the Lord

That is not a list of seven spirits of God. Isaiah 11:2 (WEB):

(2) Yahweh’s Spirit will rest on him: the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of Yahweh.​

It says that God's spirit will give him (the Messiah - the Holy Spirit, one spirit, descended from heaven to Jesus at his baptism) the qualities of a perfect ruler. These qualities are listed as three pairs - making six.

SEVEN, is repeatedly revealed in Scripture regarding Gods DIVINE WHOLE PERFECTION.

1 Cor 12:
Expounds more ABOUT such Blessing God GIVES to manKIND.

1 Corinthians 12:4-11 (WEB):

(4) Now there are various kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit.​

(5) There are various kinds of service, and the same Lord.​

(6) There are various kinds of workings, but the same God, who works all things in all.​

(7) But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the profit of all.​

(8) For to one is given through the Spirit the word of wisdom, and to another the word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit;​

(9) to another faith, by the same Spirit; and to another gifts of healings, by the same Spirit;​

(10) and to another workings of miracles; and to another prophecy; and to another discerning of spirits; to another different kinds of languages; and to another the interpretation of languages.​

(11) But the one and the same Spirit produces all of these, distributing to each one separately as he desires.​

It is just one spirit, God's (Holy) Spirit, that Pauls says gives nine different manifestations of God's spirit (singular). You can't make seven spirits out of these passages.

It is by, through, of the ONE SAME SPIRIT, WHO IS God…which God Grants individual beings to be MADE “partial” recipients “OF His POWER”.

Correct at last.