SALVATION OF ANIMALS

[DJT_47]

Thank you, although I prefer English.

From SpanishDictionary.com:

Adiós is Spanish for "goodbye" or "farewell". Literally translated, the word is the contraction of "a" (to) and "Dios" (God), from the old Spanish phrase "A Dios vais" ("You're going to God", meaning to the Kingdom of Heaven), which appears in the novel Don Quixote. It is roughly equivalent to the English phrase "Godspeed" or "Go with God" ("Vaya con Dios").​

Good, prefer anything you like, but obviously not the truth. Adios

 

[keithr]

Good, prefer anything you like, but obviously not the truth. Adios

I am interested only in the truth. To bring this discussion back to the topic of this thread, that is why I don't believe that animals will be resurrected, let alone go to heaven, because there is no mention or hint of it in the Bible, and it doesn't fit in with God's plan as outlined in the Bible. There is room for all of mankind that has ever lived to be restored to life and live on the earth, but I'm not sure there is room for all the animals (including insects) that have ever lived to be restored to life too. I don't believe that God will resurrect plants either!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

There's a lot of people like you who believe the dead are alive in heaven. The first key that it's not true should be because the Catholics teach it and they have never been right about anything. How do you have a verse like 1 Thessalonians 4:16 if the dead are already alive.

Sorry I have been absent. I have had a serious back injury.

so according to your logic here, Jesus is not divine
Jesus did not physically rise from the dead
Jesus has not ascended into heaven
The trinity is a fallacy

Amongst many other truths they do hold.

Just because a sect has serious doc trinal errors do not mean they are wrong about many things.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Paul is saying that he would prefer to be out of his mortal body and be at home with the Lord, and that is something that most Christians also want. But most Christians make the mistake of thinking that when a person dies they are immediately out of their body and home with the Lord, and that is not what happens and not what 2 Corinthians 5:8 is saying.

If 2 Cor. is not saying this, then it is not saying anything because this is exactly what is written.

When one is absent from the body, they are home with the Lord. that is exactly what Paul wrote in present tense. If he meant to say at som efiuture point in time, He would have been inspired by God to use a future tense with a conditional.

The message of Scripture from Genesis to Revelation is that when a person dies, they are dead in every sense of the word, with no conscious awareness. Dead people will be raised at the Rapture or a resurrection. This is contrary to the teaching of traditional Christianity, which says that when a person dies, their soul (or spirit) immediately goes to heaven or hell. Through the centuries, Christians have focused on a few verses of Scripture to support their claim that dead Christians are alive in heaven, and 2 Corinthians 5:8 is one of those verses.

Wrong again. Lazarus and the rich man is a true account.Paul declared when the bosy dies we go hgbome.

Jude spoke of the spirits in prison
Peter spoke of the spirits imprisoned before the flood.
John saw the trib souls crying for vengenace
John in Rev. 19 saw trhe bride of Jesus (the church) in heaven with her rewards.

Your reinterpretation contradicts scripture.

 

[Behold]

Therefore the paradise that Jesus was referring to was

= Abraham's Bosom

1 Peter 3:19

 

[Behold]

Its....sinners, who need Salvation

Animals dont "sin" so they would not need "Salvation".

Are animals in Heaven.?

The Born again will find out..

There is no verse in the Bible that says they are not in heaven.

Jack Van Impe has a very interesting teaching on this subject.

 

[Zao is life]

"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living [chay] soul [nephesh]." -- Genesis 2:7

THE SOUL OF ANIMALS MENTIONED IN THE BIBLE

"And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that has life [nephesh chay], and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven." - Genesis 1:20

"And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creeps upon the earth, wherein there is life [nephesh chay], I have given every green herb for food: and it was so." - Genesis 1:30.

"And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath [rûach] of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die." -- Genesis 6:17

"And they went in to Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, in which is the breath of life." -- Genesis 7:15.

"Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died." -- Genesis 7:22.

Although the Bible mentions the soul of animals, only of mankind is it said that we were created in the image and likeness of God.

Romans 8 - Paul stating that all of creation will be delivered from the bondage of decay at the time of man's resurrection from the dead:

19 For the earnest expectation of the creation waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creation was made subject to vanity (decay), not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 That the creation itself shall also be delivered from the bondage of corruption (decay) into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Does all creation include the animals?

Matthew 19:28
"Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth: In the age when all things are renewed, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel." (Matthew 19:28 NETfree).

"At the renewal of all things" (NIV)
"When the world is made new" (NLT)
"In the new world" (ESV)
"In the regeneration" (NKJV)

What is this "renewal of all things"?

Nope. The resurrection of all of us does not leave the creation behind - in fact, the entire creation awaits the resurrection of all of us so that the creation itself can be delivered from the bondage of decay.

Things are gonna be different round here ..

 

[Peterlag]

= Abraham's Bosom

1 Peter 3:19

I don't know this stuff. I have heard heaven is for Christians and paradise for Israel. I figure I will either be in one place or the other. The Scriptures say we will have a body similar to the body Jesus now has. I don't know what kind of a body Israel will have.

 

[Peterlag]

Sorry I have been absent. I have had a serious back injury.

so according to your logic here, Jesus is not divine
Jesus did not physically rise from the dead
Jesus has not ascended into heaven
The trinity is a fallacy

Amongst many other truths they do hold.

Just because a sect has serious doc trinal errors do not mean they are wrong about many things.

so according to your logic here, Jesus is not divine
1.) Jesus is not divine like how the Catholics teach.

Jesus did not physically rise from the dead
2.) Catholics do not teach Jesus rose from the dad. They teach God rose from the dead.

Jesus has not ascended into heaven
3.) Catholics teach God ascended into heaven. Not Jesus.

The trinity is a fallacy
4.) Absolutely.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Yep…IF for some, WHEN for others.

Yep…A Souls LIFE, IS Gods Breath of Life.

Yep…ManKKIND and AnimalKIND have Gods Breath of Life.

Gen. 7:
[14] They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.
[15] And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.

1 Gen 15:
[44] It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Yep…Saved departed souls, “rise” up to Heaven.

Yep…Saved souls “ARE” forgiven souls of manKIND and SINLESS souls of animalKKIND.

Yep…Blood is the life of mortal body’s (man and animal KIND).

Yep…Body’s of Saved soul “SHALL” rise up “IMMORTAL” from the “dust of the Earth”, receive it’s “Saved soul” and Occupy the face of the EARTH…
“WHEN”…
The barrier Between Heaven and Earth IS opened…
“AND”
As it IS IN Heaven, so SHALL it BE ON EARTH.

Yep…THEN SHALL
Matt 6:
[10] Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

Settled…According to the word of God…
ManKIND has a body and soul.
AnimalKIND has a body and soul.

Glory to God,
Taken

We'll see

 

[Ronald Nolette]

so according to your logic here, Jesus is not divine
1.) Jesus is not divine like how the Catholics teach.

Jesus did not physically rise from the dead
2.) Catholics do not teach Jesus rose from the dad. They teach God rose from the dead.

Jesus has not ascended into heaven
3.) Catholics teach God ascended into heaven. Not Jesus.

The trinity is a fallacy
4.) Absolutely.

Jesus is equally divine as teh Father
Yes Jesus rose from the dead for Jesus is God.
Jesus ascended into heaven as He is God
The trinity is biblical.

So as you reject the trinity, what type of being is Jesus?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

More from @keithr

Jesus did not go to heaven on the day that he was crucified, and Jesus never lied so he would not have said, or meant, that the thief would be with Jesus in heaven that very day. Jesus was dead for three days:

Jesus did not ascend to heaven until many days later.

Therefore the paradise that Jesus was referring to was the coming paradise on the earth, when Jesus returns and establishes his kingdom on the earth.

Jesus is unique. The bible teaches that saved people immediately go to heaven when the body dies.

 

[Taken]

We'll see

No need to wait and see.
By Scriptural testimony Specific animals were escorted by Noah, in pairs, (described having Gods Breath of Live), into the ark.

Gen 7:
[15] And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Peterlag]

Jesus is unique. The bible teaches that saved people immediately go to heaven when the body dies.

Be careful because @keithr is a smart guy. Even I have learned to look stuff up before responding to him. If he says...

"The paradise that Jesus was referring to was the coming paradise on the earth, when Jesus returns and establishes his kingdom on the earth."

Then that's probably true.

 

[Taken]

Jesus is unique. The bible teaches that saved people immediately go to heaven when the body dies.

Error, per your language choice.
A “person” is an Alive body, with it’s Living soul IN it’s body.

Dead body’s go to the grave, return to dust.
The Living soul departs out of the Dead body.

Departed Saved Living souls go to heaven, returning to God, who gave it, experiencing rest / peace with God, while waiting for their glorified body to be risen.

Un-saved departed souls go to hell, experiencing absolute separation from God and the beauty and pleasantness of Gods wonders…(called torments), and waiting for their corrupt body to be risen and judged.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Peterlag]

Error, per your language choice.
A “person” is an Alive body, with it’s Living soul IN it’s body.

Dead body’s go to the grave, return to dust.
The Living soul departs out of the Dead body.

Departed Saved Living souls go to heaven, returning to God, who gave it, experiencing rest / peace with God, while waiting for their glorified body to be risen.

Un-saved departed souls go to hell, experiencing absolute separation from God and the beauty and pleasantness of Gods wonders…(called torments), and waiting for their corrupt body to be risen and judged.

Glory to God,
Taken

I was taught...

The body rots.
The soul goes to the grave.
The spirit goes back to God.

 

[Taken]

I was taught...

The body rots.
The soul goes to the grave.
The spirit goes back to God.

I was taught…
The body, the soul, the spirit …
OF God are three distinct things regarding GOD.

I was taught…
God Created mankind for His pleasure.
God Made mankind in the Likeness of His image.

I was taught…
In the Likeness of Gods image…
So too does mankind have three distinct things regarding manKind…
Body…
Soul…
Spirit…

I was taught…
the three things regarding a man…
* Body formed by God, is of dust, returns to dust…applies to all of mankind.
* all souls, belong to God, all life in all souls belong to God and is given BY God to a FORMED dependent Body, causing the BODY’S “communication” avenues (so to speak) to become activated…
Flesh, feels touch
Eyes, see
Ears, hear
Nose, smells
Tongue, tastes
Mouth, utters sounds
* all souls, Given newborn human babes, begin being “subjected to” the sin of the flesh….THUS corrupted, and at some point…
Becomes RESTORED….(ie called Saved) or it remains Corrupted….(ie not saved).

I was taught…
The “natural born spirit of man”….IS a mans “TRUTH”…in his heart…(which may and often is)….the same “truth” in a mans carnal mind…or the complete Opposite truth of a mans carnal mind.

I was taught…
The mans natural spirit…CAN BE “MADE” born again, by the power of God, and by the man receiving the SEED of God, and the Spirit of Gods TRUTH, to which that man, by, through, of Gods offering and power and the mans acceptance…Spiritually becomes MADE an acceptable spiritual son, of the Spiritual God and FOREVER with God and FOREVER God with that man, and FOREVER set apart (sanctified), to receive, Gods words, truths and understandings thereof…(according TO God).

A BODY’s life is Blood.
A Body’s life, MUST DIE, God requires it.

A SOUL’S life is God Breath. Gods Breath of Life, NEVER Dies. Gods Breath “Presently” REMAINS IN “EVERY” SOUL, that ever WAS, blown into a body.

Living souls, DO NOT REMAIN IN DEAD BODY’S.
BODY’S came out of the Earth and Return to the Earth.

Living souls, DEPART OUT OF DEAD BODY’S.
….”IF” the soul has been SAVED, it returns to Heaven, to wait for it’s and it’s body’s judgement.
….”IF” the soul has NOT been SAVED, it is sent to hell, to wait for it’s and it’s body’s judgement.

“IF” the spirit of man has been MADE “reborn” of Gods SEED…it remains IN the heart of an ALIVE Body.

“IF” the body Ceases being Alive, the “new born again spirit” departs the DEAD BODY and goes to heaven, to wait in comfort and peace and rest, for judgement day…of that mans…body, soul AND spirit.

“IF” the man has NOT received God “SEED”…
The natural spirit of man (ie truth in his heart), DIES with the mans natural flesh body.

Father, Son, Holy Spirit…ONE God…three distinct functions…Creator, Maker, Offering to be RE-MADE, Judge

Body, Soul, Spirit…ONE Man…three distinct functions….Created, Made, Option to be RE-MADE, Judged

1 Thes 5: (THREE WHOLLY distinct things of ONE man, requires GOD to address EACH, for a man to BE MADE, WHOLLY Sanctfied)
[23] And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.


Ecc 12: (“IF” God has given a man Gods SEED, making that mans spirit “born Again”…
WHEN that mans BODY DIES, THAT “born Again Spirit RETURNS to God in Heaven”)…

[7] Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

THE SPIRIT…(made born again of Gods seed, departs the dead body and returns to God and the body returns to the dust of the earth.

THE Living SOUL…shall depart a dead body…
And MAY be SENT to Hell…OR
MAY be ESCORTED to Heaven…
“IT’S LIFE (Gods Breath), remaining IN the soul, or departing out of the soul…DOES NOT OCCUR at a mans bodily DEATH…
THAT SHALL OCCUR…AFTER JUDGEMENT DAY.

People do not go to heaven.
People do not go to hell.
Dead body’s return to the dust of the Earth.
Departed saved souls go to heaven
Departed unsaved souls go to hell
Departed born again spirits go to heaven
Natural non born again spirits die, go to the grave, return to dust with their body.

A Person IS a Living manKIND of Body with it’s Living soul IN IT.

No…souls do not remain IN Dead body’s.
No….souls are not buried IN the Earth.
No….souls did not come forth out of the Earth.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[keithr]

Un-saved departed souls go to hell, experiencing absolute separation from God ...

That can't be "separation from God", because Psalms 139:7-8 (WEB):

(7) Where could I go from your Spirit? Or where could I flee from your presence?​

(8) If I ascend up into heaven, you are there. If I make my bed in Sheol, behold, you are there!​

KJV:

(8) If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.​

 

[keithr]

Jesus is unique. The bible teaches that saved people immediately go to heaven when the body dies.

That is not in harmony with what Paul taught. 1 Corinthians 15:51 (WEB):

(51) Behold, I tell you a mystery. We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,​

He describes those Christians that have died as being asleep, not awake in heaven.

1 Corinthians 15:17-18 (WEB):

(17) If Christ has not been raised, your faith is vain; you are still in your sins.​

(18) Then they also who are fallen asleep in Christ have perished.​

If Jesus had not been resurrected (restored to life) then that would have meant that the sacrifice of his life was not accepted by God, because Jesus must have sinned, and the penalty for sin is death. That is why Jesus was so stressed in the garden of Gethsemane that he sweated blood. He knew that if he had sinned in any way that he would go into eternal death, into extinction of life. He also knew it would have meant eternal death for all mankind too, hence Paul says that all Christians that have died will also have perished, because they would not be resurrected (restored to life) at a later time.

1 Corinthians 15:20 (WEB):

(20) But now Christ has been raised from the dead. He became the first fruits of those who are asleep.​

Resurrection is a rising up from being dead. Those who are asleep are dead, i.e. they are not living, and they have no thoughts. (Psalms 146:4, WEB, "His spirit departs, and he returns to the earth. In that very day, his thoughts perish".)

1 Corinthians 15:22-23 (WEB):

(22) For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.​

(23) But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then those who are Christ’s, at his coming.​

Jesus was the first fruits, the first to be resurrected. The whole of the Christian church will be resurrected "at his coming", when Jesus returns for the church. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 (WEB):

(15) For this we tell you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will in no way precede those who have fallen asleep.​

(16) For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with God’s trumpet. The dead in Christ will rise first,​

(17) then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. So we will be with the Lord forever.​

As Paul said in the first verse I quoted above, not all Christians will die and sleep in death waiting for the resurrection. Those that are still living when Jesus returns will not die but they will be instantly changed to be like those resurrected saints. Those that have died are not in heaven, they are dead - they're in a dormant state (sleeping) and have no thoughts.

 

[Taken]

That can't be "separation from God", because Psalms 139:7-8 (WEB):

(7) Where could I go from your Spirit? Or where could I flee from your presence?​

(8) If I ascend up into heaven, you are there. If I make my bed in Sheol, behold, you are there!​

KJV:

(8) If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.​

Yes…God Almighty absolutely has the Power and Authority to BE anywhere, everywhere of His OWN choosing.

Did you LEARN God CREATED a “particular” PLACE “FOR” particular beings?

A reminder…
Rev 12:
[10] And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
[14] And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
[15] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Examine … WHO IS PRESENT IN the LAKE of FIRE…

Devil, Beast, False Prophet, Death, Hell, Who so ever not found IN the book of Life.

Examine … WHO IS NOT PRESENT IN the LAKE of FIRE.

God, Gods Holy angels, Gods people.

The conclusion IS:
God Himself IS Present EVERYWHERE, there IS a possibility for REDEMPTION of Gods created Beings TO BECOME MADE “redeemed”….

Once “the DOOR” (so to speak) IS CLOSED, the “SEPARATION” of Gods created Beings, IS established.
Good…shall BE WITH God, Wherever He IS.
Evil……shall BE WITHOUT God, Wherever He IS NOT.

By through, of Gods own teaching of His Knowledge, His Intent, His Plan…
His own OFFERING of REDEMPTION SHALL CEASE.

The PLACE God has prepared FOR those NOT redeemed…IS NOT a PLACE God shall INHABIT.

God IS NOT, NOR Shall BE in the Lake of Fire.

Era and Context.
Many things that WERE, shall NOT BE.

Glory to God,
Taken