The 144,000 before God at the end.

[Timtofly]

The ones both groups appear in. I believe the sealing of the 144k takes place prior to the GT as the sealing is used to protect them during that time. The multitude is seen in the eternity, clues to the proper timeframe located in the passage. Rev isn't chronological so one must use the text to identify the correct timeframe.

There is no temple in "the eternity" as you put it. This great multitude in Revelation 7 has been gathering in heaven/Paradise since the Cross. This includes all the OT redeemed. They don't need the Holy Spirit in Paradise. They have already been redeemed into permanent incorruptible physical bodies.

You are as bad as posters who say people don't go to heaven until after the Millennium. The time frame in Revelation 7:9-17 started at the Cross and will continue in heaven until the end of Millennium.

Revelation is chronological, so no one can just make up their own chronology by guessing the textual context. Revelation never gives us an explicit wording for the time reference for Jacob's Trouble called the GT by many. The first 6 Trumpets are Jacob's Trouble, the JT. The church is not even on the earth after the 5th Seal. That is why they are seen in heaven as the great multitude after the 6th Seal, while the 144k are sealed on the earth, before Jacob's Trouble even starts. The tribulation of "those days" and the great tribulation has been the "church age" since the Cross.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Try as you might, God cannot be contorted into a racist.

You might as well stop trying.

Sorry you see him as one and obsessed over your made up dimension of racism.
How you got into that trap and obsession over God being a racist is sad.

 

[covenantee]

Sorry you see him as one and obsessed over your made up dimension of racism.
How you got into that trap and obsession over God being a racist is sad.

Your response to post 2509 will identify the racist.

Why the delay?

 

[Keraz]

Anthropology, how much of that does people know?
What is the origins of the Western peoples?
Books on the origins of the human races or usually very obscure or have nothing about anything beyond that the Western people came from the Caucasus region. Then they jump to the earliest remains of humans in the African Rift Valley.
Rather a large gap between those two, a gap that remains shrouded to secular people, but can be filled in by Biblical history. How the Israelite people started with Jacob, then grew to many millions and occupied the holy Land, but they allowed other peoples to remain there, Judges 1:19-36 Those peoples infected the Israelites with their false religions and inter-marriage; eventually God threw both Israel; the ten Northern tribes and Judah; the two Southern tribes, into exile.

That exile was for a decreed time period, Ezekiel 4:4-6 and Judah has come back now, but in apostasy and they face punishment on the forthcoming Day of the Lords vengeance and wrath. Zephaniah 1:14-18, Revelation 6:12-17, +
Israel still remains in exile and they have not yet rejoined, proved by what will happen when they do. Ezekiel 37
Note; in Jeremiah 31:21 how the people of Israel left waymarks, still seen today; the many dolmens across Europe, as they travelled to their final destinations of exile, around the world, where the Lord said He would bless and prosper them.

Many secular histories tell of great population migrations in ancient times even continuing today. It did happen, the Israelites did become as many as the sands of the sea, they did occupy the gates of their enemies, they DID accept the Gospel and become Christians. John 10:16....other sheep I have, who are not of this fold...

So God WILL fulfil His promises to the Patriarchs and His Israelite people, be they actual descendants of Jacob or people from every tribe, [of Israel[ race, nation and language; grafted in by their faith. 1 Peter 2:9-10, Revelation 5:9-10

This is the amazing secret of God, His hidden Plan to redeem Israel, His faithful people. Amos 9:9
The prophecy of Ezekiel 20:32-38 is very informative, those who are of Israel who revolt and rebel, as the Jews have done, will not be allowed to live in the holy Land during the end times. Jeremiah 12:14
Another demolition of the impossible 'rapture' theory!

 

[Timtofly]

Like I have said multiple times before, Its the Church, the Body of Christ, comprised of all believing nationalities Rev 7 9-10

9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

All nations have been gathering since the Cross in Paradise. They have been serving day and night in that heavenly temple for 1994 years. Even those from Nineveh in Jonah's day. The church has never had an ethnicity division, especially in Paradise.

The 144k are sealed after the Second Coming, and the removal of the church from the earth. They are on the earth with the angels and Jesus during the final harvest, because they are the firstfruits of the Millennial Kingdom on the earth. They never go to heaven. After the Millennium, the church comes down to the earth as the New Jerusalem.

 

[ewq1938]

The great multitude of Revelation 7:9 is seen by John soon after the Sixth Seal event.

Rev is not written chronologically. John is seeing the eternity when he saw the GM.

 

[Keraz]

Rev is not written chronologically. John is seeing the eternity when he saw the GM.

Will we wave eternal palm branches?
You are just playing fast and loose with Revelation, to shuffle the given sequence like that.

 

[brightfame52]

All nations have been gathering since the Cross in Paradise. They have been serving day and night in that heavenly temple for 1994 years. Even those from Nineveh in Jonah's day. The church has never had an ethnicity division, especially in Paradise.

The 144k are sealed after the Second Coming, and the removal of the church from the earth. They are on the earth with the angels and Jesus during the final harvest, because they are the firstfruits of the Millennial Kingdom on the earth. They never go to heaven. After the Millennium, the church comes down to the earth as the New Jerusalem.

Like I have said multiple times before, Its the Church, the Body of Christ, comprised of all believing nationalities Rev 7 9-10

9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

Ethnic jews are included in the phrase " of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues"

 

[brightfame52]

@Timtofly

Revelation is chronological, so no one can just make up their own chronology by guessing the textual context. Revelation never gives us an explicit wording for the time reference for Jacob's Trouble called the GT by many. The first 6 Trumpets are Jacob's Trouble, the JT. The church is not even on the earth after the 5th Seal. That is why they are seen in heaven as the great multitude after the 6th Seal, while the 144k are sealed on the earth, before Jacob's Trouble even starts. The tribulation of "those days" and the great tribulation has been the "church age" since the Cross.

Jacobs Trouble is the Tribulation the Church, the Body of Christ suffers unto the end of the world, the Second coming. Paul speaking of the Church Acts 14 22

Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

The word much polys means great 59x and the word tribulation thlipsis means trouble 3 x

Jacob is another name for the church, Gods elect whom He loves Rom 9:13

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Eph 5:25

Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

 

[rebuilder 454]

Your response to post 2509 will identify the racist.

Why the delay?

That racist obsession is tedious

Never seen anything like it
Except from woke crowd

 

[covenantee]

That racist obsession is tedious

Never seen anything like it
Except from woke crowd

Been around since the Pharisees, those "pureblooded" Jews whom you adore.

Afraid to answer post 2509 to confirm it?

 

[rebuilder 454]

Been around since the Pharisees, those "pureblooded" Jews whom you adore.

Afraid to answer post 2509 to confirm it?

Maybe one day you will get over it.
Move on to something edifying instead of the word "racist"
The modern woke world revealed ,that in their racist obsession, they became the actual racists.
Funny how all that false accusation has a way of ending up in their lap.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Like I have said multiple times before, Its the Church, the Body of Christ, comprised of all believing nationalities Rev 7 9-10

9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

Ethnic jews are included in the phrase " of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues"

quote
"""Ethnic jews are included in the phrase " of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues" """
you just distinguished Ethnic Jews from the nations
are you aware?

 

[brightfame52]

quote
"""Ethnic jews are included in the phrase " of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues" """
you just distinguished Ethnic Jews from the nations
are you aware?

Yes, but I noticed you didnt say anything when I mentioned africans, germans being in the group, why is that ?
Post 2518:

The Great multitude all ethnicities including jews, germans africans etc

 

[ewq1938]

Will we wave eternal palm branches?
You are just playing fast and loose with Revelation, to shuffle the given sequence like that.

No, it's being able to identify the context and know when it changes that is key to understanding Revelation. Example, Rev 11 shows the end of the GT while Rev 13 shows the beginning of the GT. The chronology of Rev jumps around like this.

 

[covenantee]

Maybe one day you will get over it.
Move on to something edifying instead of the word "racist"
The modern woke world revealed ,that in their racist obsession, they became the actual racists.
Funny how all that false accusation has a way of ending up in their lap.

That and far more ended up in the Pharisees' laps.

Matthew 23
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Chosen they were. For hell.

Their bloodline availed them nothing.

Then or now.

 

[Timtofly]

@Timtofly



Jacobs Trouble is the Tribulation the Church, the Body of Christ suffers unto the end of the world, the Second coming. Paul speaking of the Church Acts 14 22

Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

The word much polys means great 59x and the word tribulation thlipsis means trouble 3 x

Jacob is another name for the church, Gods elect whom He loves Rom 9:13

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Eph 5:25

Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Jacob's trouble is the final harvest after the church is removed. The church is in Paradise.

Jesus, all the angels, and the 144k are on earth gathering the final harvest. The church is not on the earth after Jesus arrives at the Second Coming.

Like I have said multiple times before, Its the Church, the Body of Christ, comprised of all believing nationalities Rev 7 9-10

9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

Ethnic jews are included in the phrase " of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues"

Millions of Jacob's offspring already in Paradise. You don't need the number 144,000 to figure that one out.

 

[brightfame52]

Jacob's trouble is the final harvest after the church is removed. The church is in Paradise.

Jesus, all the angels, and the 144k are on earth gathering the final harvest. The church is not on the earth after Jesus arrives at the Second Coming.



Millions of Jacob's offspring already in Paradise. You don't need the number 144,000 to figure that one out.

Again Jacobs Trouble is about the Church, the Body of Christ going through much tribulation prior to the 2 nd coming of Christ.

 

[Keraz]

No, it's being able to identify the context and know when it changes that is key to understanding Revelation. Example, Rev 11 shows the end of the GT while Rev 13 shows the beginning of the GT. The chronology of Rev jumps around like this.

Revelation does have flashbacks and more information on a topic elsewhere, but the 7 Seals, 7 Trumpets and the 7 Bowls are inviolate. They provide the 'backbone' of the end times sequence of events.
Shuffling them just leads to error and confusion.

 

[Jay Ross]

No, it's being able to identify the context and know when it changes that is key to understanding Revelation. Example, Rev 11 shows the end of the GT while Rev 13 shows the beginning of the GT. The chronology of Rev jumps around like this.

It is pointless to argue with Keraz on the context of the End Time Prophecies.

He has interpreted the prophecies from the context that he wants to believe in, completely ignoring the context that God has provided where the Book of Revelations tends to deal with subject matters like the Bowl Judgements and if we consider the recorded historical record, then we can see that the John probably recorded these Bowl Judgements in the order that he observed them and not in the order in which they have and will occur. The Historical record confirms that the 7th Bowl Judgement predominately occurred during the 20th century, while the 6th Bowl Judgement starts with the Euphrates drying up, metaphorically, the majority of the 6th Bowl Judgement has occurred in the 21st century with the gathering of the kings of the earth occurring now and they will gather together at Armageddon in around 20 years' time at the end of the allotted time period for the prophecy concerning the trampling of God's sanctuary and His earthly hosts to be judged by God.

Keraz misses the key passages of prophecy that turns what he believes will happen completely on its head.

He is in no more error than the FAI organisation that is presenting its teaching using video presentations on what will occur in our future, but God is using FAI to reach out to the Jewish population that the general Church is not.

Shalom.