Still promoting salvation by ethnicity, thats against Grace !
Grace is God's redemption of mankind. That 144k of Jacob are redeemed is God's Grace.
You misrepresent yourself. When God changed Jacob's name to Israel, that was God's grace. God did not change Jacob into a Gentile to show His Grace.
You say these literal humans descended from Jacob cannot be redeemed nor receive God's Grace because John realized they were from the tribes of Jacob.
So instead of agreeing with John, you change Revelation to say these literal humans are not literal humans but represent the entire church made up of all mankind. Your symbolism and interpretation misrepresents who these 144k are.
If you say Abel represents the church, bringing his animal sacrifices in faith to offer to God, that is fine. You do not deny Abel was an individual.
That is not how you interpret the 144k. You say they are not individual humans descended from Jacob, because that is offensive to your personal opinion and interpretation, which you then project onto my interpretation, that I am wrong saying they are literal individuals.
Are they literal humans or not? Do they have a physical father on earth or not?
Do you think they are not actual humans, but John is just seeing a vague broad spectrum of all humanity from all time?
Because that is how you are coming across misrepresenting yourself, and Scripture, because you started this whole conversation that they can only be the church and of no particular ethnicity or that would, God forbid, ruin salvation by grace, although you left out through faith.
I pointed out they had no choice in the matter, so they did not choose salvation, but you keep repeating that they are not even literal humans but the church in general which has been all mankind since Abel, who chose God through faith.
That is what John wrote:
"And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads."
The seal is symbolism. The event is not symbolic. It is a literal event. For instance, being sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption, is a literal event for every human, but the seal is symbolic. God is saying that those who freely choose the second birth do not have to worry about the second death, but will receive the first resurrection upon physical death, which is the day of redemption for the soul, because the soul leaves this physical body of death, and the body returns to dust. While these symbolic terms effect a literal person, you would not deny a human is a literal person.
But then you deny the 144k are literal people, calling what John wrote, "a vague symbolic reference to the church". You imply vague by saying the numbers are just mere symbolism, and not even a literal 144k.
I am not promoting Salvation at all in my post. I am pointing out a particular redemption that is given to all redeemed humans. Obviously you deny the distinction between those in heaven and those on earth. But you are not that forthcoming on what even describes the church, since you seem to be against the point the church comes from all mankind. You are only arguing a point a few of you seem to like to falsely accuse others of, but only you bring it up.
Since all mankind can be redeemed, the church has little to do with ethnicity. Since the church at one point included Jacob as natural branches according to Paul, what do you even think that means, and should you call Paul "racist" and "destroying Salvation" with that symbolism? I don't even hold reformed Calvinism or reformed covenant views, and I understand Scripture. I can make a distinction between Israel and the church. Because Israel is as much a part of the church, as Germans are, or any other nation on the earth. The distinction is between what Israel is and what Germans are. Not all Germans are part of the church. Not all Israelites are part of the church.
I don't even need to use hyphenated words to understand Scripture.