The beliefs of the early Chiliasts were the antithesis of modern Premil

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Taken

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How does the wicked survive the return of Christ?

Who says the wicked survives the return of Christ?

The Premil millennium is a disaster.

No.

It is just a rerun of our age. Rather than the Premil new earth being a progressively glorious age (as they like to portray), it regressively degenerates into turmoil, tears and tragedy. Rather than the wicked and wickedness being subjugated, the opposite occurs – they prosper and increase.

You have focused on ‘THE’ END, without understanding.
Scripture has application to ALL people.
People have an END of their days, those days of Events have ENDED, these days have an END.
God Saving His People Israel, had a Beginning, a pause of days, a continuance of days, a pause of days, shall have continued days for their Salvation, during the Trib.
 

WPM

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If I require your help, I will ask.
Presently your posts are convoluted.

LOL. You have no answer to them so far. So, I will take this as a compliment.
 

WPM

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Who says the wicked survives the return of Christ?



No.



You have focused on ‘THE’ END, without understanding.
Scripture has application to ALL people.
People have an END of their days, those days of Events have ENDED, these days have an END.
God Saving His People Israel, had a Beginning, a pause of days, a continuance of days, a pause of days, shall have continued days for their Salvation, during the Trib.

Do you believe the temple will be rebuilt in your millennium and there will be a return to old covenant practices, priests and customs?
 

jeffweeder

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Do you believe the temple will be rebuilt in your millennium and there will be a return to old covenant practices, priests and customs?

Doubt you're going to get an answer, but I believe God will never authorize such a place to be built. God wants his people to focus on Jesus first and foremost if they want Gods presence to swell with them. I meant to say dwell but swell sounds pretty good.:D.

God may allow this event to happen , so he can destroy it suddenly forever in the end for rejecting and apostatizing such a Gracious majestic salvation that he provided in Jesus all those years ago when he comes again.
 
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WPM

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Doubt you're going to get an answer, but I believe God will never authorize such a place to be built. God wants his people to focus on Jesus first and foremost if they want Gods presence to swell with them. I meant to say dwell but swell sounds pretty good.:D.

God may allow this event to happen , so he can destroy it suddenly forever in the end for rejecting and apostatizing such a Gracious majestic salvation that he provided in Jesus all those years ago when he comes again.

Well put!
 

Taken

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Do you believe the temple will be rebuilt in your millennium and there will be a return to old covenant practices, priests and customs?

I believe Before Christ Jesus’ millennial reign the Jews will build a Third Temple.
Everything is prepared. Precise Land “footprint”, is still being discussed.

Shall the Jews “return” to old covenant practices/priests/ and customs?
Many Jews “continue”, practices, certain days, festival observances and customs in this day and timeframe.
I believe Priest’s perform certain rituals that Rabbi’s do not.

Will they slaughter animals on the altar? Not something I have privy to their plans.
 

Ronald David Bruno

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We see Stephen addressing Isaiah 66:1, whilst preaching on the subject of the tabernacle in Acts 7:44-50, saying, “Our fathers had the tabernacle of witness in the wilderness, as he had appointed, speaking unto Moses, that he should make it according to the fashion that he had seen. Which also our fathers that came after brought in with Jesus into the possession of the Gentiles, whom God drave out before the face of our fathers, unto the days of David; Who found favour before God, and desired to find a tabernacle for the God of Jacob. But Solomon built him an house. Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet, Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest? Hath not my hand made all these things? Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it. When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth. But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God (Acts 7:47-56).

Here, Stephen’s natural eyes were supernaturally opened to view the Lord’s current kingly reign over His enemies upon the heavenly throne from the right hand of majesty on high. Thus confirming, once again, the present reality of Christ’s glorious reign in glory – heaven being His throne and earth being His footstool.

Stephen was thus able to testify to the marvelous kingly fulfilment of our two prophetic Old Testament prophecies. Confirming, once again, the present reality of Christ’s glorious reign over His enemies in glory – heaven being His throne and earth being His footstool.

Stephen lost his life for identifying the Old Testament “tabernacle of witness” with Christ and the conversion of the Gentiles. He then goes on to explain that God’s tabernacle today is not physical but spiritual (v 48) and then quotes Isaiah 66:1 to show the enormity of Christ’s rule today having sat down at the right hand of majesty on high (vv 49, 55-56). Stephen showed that God’s temple today is not physical, but spiritual. Also, the Messianic reign is shown to be heavenly and not earthly: “Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool.” Plainly, earth is not the location of God’s throne – heaven is. Albeit, earth is the place of His footstool not anywhere else. Do Premils not see this? This reading confirms that this reign is active an ongoing since the resurrection/ascension. Stephen was seeing this kingly rule in this current intra-Advent period.


Christ is shown in the New Testament to be the fulfilment to all these Messianic prophecies. What is more, He is shown to be currently exercising Davidic key/authority upon high over David’s house. John says in Revelation 3:7, “These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath (present active particle) the key (or authority) of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth.

This passage reinforces the fact that Christ is exercising His Davidic kingship over mankind now. The Old Testament kings were mere types of the one true King. He didn’t come to replicate the imperfect shadow and type, He came to introduce the true and eternal kingship of Israel.

Key in Scripture symbolically represents authority. Here it specifically relates to the position of Christ after He rose from the dead and notably linked to His Davidic (Messianic) power. Adam Clark confirms “the key of David is the regal right or authority of David.” Revelation 3:7 describes how Christ now exercises His Davidic kingship. The phrase “that hath” is translated from the Greek word echo is a primary verb meaning “to hold.” It is used in the present active particle, proving that this is an ongoing present authority. Christ is shown here to be ruling now in Davidic power on David’s throne.

The powerful language that accompanies the mention of Christ holding the key of David proves that this is referring to His majestic power and might. It says, “he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth.” This speaks of spiritual power. The key allows Christ to sovereignly open and shut in a way that no man can thwart or override.

We can see from the grammatical tense that this is written in the present active particle tense, which proves this is happening now.

The New Testament presents the reign of Judah’s true king repeatedly as a present reality and shows Christ to be currently fulfilling it in heaven.

We find this in Revelation 5:1-6, where we learn, “And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals. And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain.”

When Scripture speaks of Christ sitting on David’s throne it is referring to the appearance and victory of Israel’s true and final king. Christ is shown in this figurative depiction fulfilling His Davidic kingship. The statement “the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed” simply tells us that the Lord Jesus Christ (the much-anticipated Davidic Messiah) has finally succeeded in His mission having resoundingly conquered every enemy through the resurrection and is now reigning now as Judah’s king. David’s greater Son has finally “prevailed.”

The word “prevailed” here is nikao meaning to conquer, overcome, prevail, or to get the victory. This is exactly what “the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David” did. This is an existing reality. We are not waiting for some future age for the son of David to prevail; He already victoriously secured a victory over every enemy by His resurrection and has now assumed the throne of David reigning over the Israel of God.

It was through the tribe of Judah that the Israelite royal linage functioned. It was here that the kingship or leadership was given (Genesis 49:9-10). Judah went by the standard of a lion. Jesus Christ was born through the linage of Judah (Matthew 1:1-2, Hebrews 7:14) and it is He that has the strength/power to deal with the enemies of His people. The connotation involved in the wording and symbolism contained in Revelation 5:5 in regard to “the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David” confirms Christ’s present Davidic kingship or rulership.
It is said that Jesus fulfilled some 300 prophecies during His First Coming and still has another 300 to fulfill soon. He has all authority in heaven and on earth, He is God, so obviously He sits next to the Father in Heaven. You need to pray for the Holy Spirit and His guidance. We are to be baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. You cannot see the kingdom of Heaven unless you have been born again!
I have to say, Amillennialism is a gross misinterpretation of eschatology. Actually it renders the word eschatology stripped of its substance and left practically naked. The Amillennialist misses out on the joy and anticipation that the scriptures bring. As God places eternity in our hearts, He also gives us this yearning for a perfect world, a Paradise reborn which once was for a short time. We see this in the Millennial Kingdom and in Heaven of course. We see justice in His coming Judgments. We see Jesus fixing this sinful world. We see even animals in harmony ... and everything in harmony. It is quite something to look forward to. And we hope we will see it ... coming soon to your neighborhood.
 

Taken

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LOL. You have no answer to them so far. So, I will take this as a compliment.

Not given as a compliment.
Already addressed, there are numerous ‘end’ times in scripture.

For example, there is a specific ‘end’ of 1,000 years.
Rev. 20
[7] And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
 

WPM

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I believe Before Christ Jesus’ millennial reign the Jews will build a Third Temple.
Everything is prepared. Precise Land “footprint”, is still being discussed.

Shall the Jews “return” to old covenant practices/priests/ and customs?
Many Jews “continue”, practices, certain days, festival observances and customs in this day and timeframe.
I believe Priest’s perform certain rituals that Rabbi’s do not.

Will they slaughter animals on the altar? Not something I have privy to their plans.

You are not answering my question: do you believe the temple will be rebuilt in your millennium and there will be a return to old covenant practices, priests and customs?
 

WPM

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Not given as a compliment.
Already addressed, there are numerous ‘end’ times in scripture.

For example, there is a specific ‘end’ of 1,000 years.
Rev. 20
[7] And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

So, they were simply playing at their veneration of Christ and are the biggest bunch of phonies this world has ever seen. Here billions of millennial inhabitants at the drop of the hat change camps - as the sand of the sea.
 

Taken

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@WPM

Do you believe God is omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient?

Do you believe Jesus is omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient?

TY
 

Taken

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You are not answering my question: do you believe the temple will be rebuilt in your millennium and there will be a return to old covenant practices, priests and customs?

I will not allow you to put words in my mouth.

“Quote me claiming”...

my millennium

Then I will respond to what I SAID.
 

WPM

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It is said that Jesus fulfilled some 300 prophecies during His First Coming and still has another 300 to fulfill soon. He has all authority in heaven and on earth, He is God, so obviously He sits next to the Father in Heaven. You need to pray for the Holy Spirit and His guidance. We are to be baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. You cannot see the kingdom of Heaven unless you have been born again!
I have to say, Amillennialism is a gross misinterpretation of eschatology. Actually it renders the word eschatology stripped of its substance and left practically naked. The Amillennialist misses out on the joy and anticipation that the scriptures bring. As God places eternity in our hearts, He also gives us this yearning for a perfect world, a Paradise reborn which once was for a short time. We see this in the Millennial Kingdom and in Heaven of course. We see justice in His coming Judgments. We see Jesus fixing this sinful world. We see even animals in harmony ... and everything in harmony. It is quite something to look forward to. And we hope we will see it ... coming soon to your neighborhood.

The opposite is the truth. The portrayal you paint cannot be found in Rev 20. It is an illusion. You force it into the text. You know that. What is claimed as a perfect pristine paradise actually happens after the millennium and Satan's little season, with the introduction of the NHNE. Amils and Postmils believe that to occur at the second coming. Our hope is therefore biblical and far-superior to your debacle.

The kingdom that you anticipate is a sin-curse, goat-infested, death blighted fiasco. We have the biggest religious turn-around in history: from a millennial kingdom where the nations wholesale supposedly submit to Christ in righteousness (as Premils portray) to a mass revival of Satanism as "the sand of the sea." Sadly, this is all done with Christ at the helm. The Premillennial millennium culminates in the greatest global uprising in history from the four corners of the earth as “the sand of the sea” against the “camp of the saints.”

This has to be the greatest falling away in history. It is the biggest religious deception in history. It is the most pronounced religious circus in history. It makes Christ out to be deceived - believing He had mass allegiance when in fact he had a millennium full of phonies. His outreach to the nations is a complete bust. It makes His efforts out to be a failure. His attempt to reign in righteousness, glory and power is an unmitigated mess.

So much for the perfect pristine paradise of unparalleled, historic and wholesale submission to the authority of the Lord Jesus Christ Premil millennium!!!

You are talking about a gradual unfolding perfecting of your future millennium into some type of utopia or age of Aquarius where paradise is restored. But a quick look at the Scriptures presented by you to support your position and reality advanced shows a different picture. The millennium regressively descends into chaos, corruption and the carnality as billions of wicked overrun the millennium. The NHNE are perfect and are marked by incorruption, glorification and righteousness.

Also, you have the lion and lamb enjoying millennial bliss until the slaughter truck pulls up to drag the lambs, goats and bullocks to the temple in Jerusalem for sacrifice in the presence of Jesus. Amazingly, for the first time in history they have no fear of their traditional predators, just supposedly righteous millennial God-ordained priests coming for them with sharp knives.

Sin and death are everywhere in your supposed future age of Aquarius.
 
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WPM

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It is said that Jesus fulfilled some 300 prophecies during His First Coming and still has another 300 to fulfill soon. He has all authority in heaven and on earth, He is God, so obviously He sits next to the Father in Heaven. You need to pray for the Holy Spirit and His guidance. We are to be baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. You cannot see the kingdom of Heaven unless you have been born again!
I have to say, Amillennialism is a gross misinterpretation of eschatology. Actually it renders the word eschatology stripped of its substance and left practically naked. The Amillennialist misses out on the joy and anticipation that the scriptures bring. As God places eternity in our hearts, He also gives us this yearning for a perfect world, a Paradise reborn which once was for a short time. We see this in the Millennial Kingdom and in Heaven of course. We see justice in His coming Judgments. We see Jesus fixing this sinful world. We see even animals in harmony ... and everything in harmony. It is quite something to look forward to. And we hope we will see it ... coming soon to your neighborhood.

I notice you had to ignore/sidestep/reject many key NT passages that show Jesus is now holding David's authority sitting on David's throne upon high. That is because you have to. You had no answer for this. It is Scripture that exposes your doctrine, not Amils.
 

WPM

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I will not allow you to put words in my mouth.

“Quote me claiming”...



Then I will respond to what I SAID.

Once again, you cannot address simple questions.
 

WPM

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No. That is false. I clearly said I WOULD NOT.
Would not does not mean can not.

If you had the material you would. Scripture forbids your thesis not Amils.
 
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