Davy
Well-Known Member
Thus upsets the future Zechariah 14 account of His return upon the Mount of Olives, if what you say were true. It upsets what the the two angels said in Acts 1 that Jesus would return "in like manner".
The " catching up " rapture must be so very very close!!
- Thread starter GISMYS_7
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
That is the problem. When Christ was on the earth, they thought all would be over after 490/500 years. That is the half time. But Daniel said time, times, and half a time. Now after 2500 years many say it will all be over, after times and half a time, and dismiss the time at the end.
What if Revelation 12:14 is about part of Israel that was not harmed by the dragon for 3500 years? Why would that be such a big deal?
We already know Satan is given 42 months, and the 2 witnesses 1260 days. What if Revelation 12:14 was for something entirely different, than what you interpret it as?
Revelation 12 is an historical overview of many years of Israel, starting even before Joseph went to Egypt.
Revelation 12:
Revelation 12:1-5 is historic
Revelation 12:6 is the first 1260 days of the 7 years.
Revelation 12:7-9 war in second heaven is after the 1263 1/2 days
Revelation 12:10-17 is the time/time/half time that Satan will have left.
__________________________________________________________________________________________
The 42 months in Revelation 13:5 are how long the beast-king rules after the two witnessed will have left this world.
__________________________________________________________________________________________
1260 days + 3 1/2 days + 42 months = 2520 days
1260 days + 3 1/2 days + war in second heaven time + time/times/half time = 2520 days
ewq1938
Well-Known Member
- Jul 11, 2015
- 5,998
- 1,228
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
How can it be? Tye Ac ruled from Jerusalem for 42 months. He isn't leading anyone to attack his own city. Armageddon takes placer 66 miles from Jerusalem and only involves the army of the beast against Christ. Jerusalem isn't attacked nor would it be. The only attempted attack against that city is after the thousand years and it is a failed attack unlike the one in the passage we are discussing.
No, not Jesus. Here is Jesus:
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
The Lord in verse 15 is the Father of Jesus.
ewq1938
Well-Known Member
- Jul 11, 2015
- 5,998
- 1,228
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
But the 7th trump sounds that same day so there isn't another 42 months not even two more days. Rev 13 is the start of the GT, and Rev 11 is how it ends.
You forgot what the 7th trumpet does. When it sounds, it enacts the third woe to the inhabiters of the earth.
Revelation 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!
The 7th trumpet sounds in Revelation 11. In the following chapters of Revelation after Revelation 11, what verse do you find "woe to the inhabiters of the earth"? What is the third woe ? How long does it last ?
Last edited:
ewq1938
Well-Known Member
- Jul 11, 2015
- 5,998
- 1,228
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
No, you don't know what it does. The kingdoms of the world will belong to the Lord and his Christ but you claim the beast rules for 42 more months which contradicts scripture.
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
The beast cannot rule any kingdoms past this point. All the beast can do is lead his armies to their defeat at Armageddon where the beast and FP are destroyed and God makes this possible via the 6th vial.
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
No, it does not enact the 3rd woe. The woes are not the actions of the Trumpets. They accompany the actions of the Trumpets. The 7th Trumpet action is Jesus pronounced the 7th King of the 7th Kingdom controlling every nation on earth.
The third woe depends on the confirmation of the Atonement Covenant between God, and any one still alive on the earth at that point, which will not be that many compared to the billions that have already been removed from the earth at that point. The first 6 Trumpets and 7 Thunders cover the final harvest of Matthew 25 and Matthew 13. All the sheep and goats have been removed from the earth. All the wheat and tares have been removed from the earth. All you have left is fence sitters, the gleanings who have not chosen sides, nor have been chosen by God.
If the third woe is allowed, the only choice will be between taking the mark, or chopping one's head off.
The 144k are the witnesses prior to the 7th Trumpet. The 2 witnesses are only during Satan's 42 months called the 3rd woe, in which the Abomination of Desolation is set up. During those 42 months Jesus and the 144k wait on Mount Zion. So the only witness on earth will be two individuals.
The 7th trumpet sounds in Revelation 11. In the following chapters of Revelation after Revelation 11, what verse do you find "woe to the inhabiters of the earth"? What is the third woe ? How long does it last ?
The 7th trumpet sounds in Revelation 11. In the following chapters of Revelation after Revelation 11, what verse do you find "woe to the inhabiters of the earth"? What is the third woe ? How long does it last ?
Why does the verse not say "have become" instead of "are become" ?
Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
Ezekiel 28, referring to Satan....
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
The question .... what is the third woe to the inhabiters of the earth announced by the 7th trumpet ? And how long it will last ?
________________________________________________________________________________________
The Answer:
In the (time/times/half time) days of the 7th trumpet woe to the inhabiters of the earth (Revelation 12:12), Satan cast down to earth (Revelation 12:7-9) will be a terror (Ezekiel 28:19), having great wrath (Revelation 12:12) knowing that he has but a short time left.
7th angel sounds and God begins taking the kingdoms of the world away from Satan and the kingdoms "are become" over the time/times/half time, the kingdoms of God and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Last edited:
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
The 7th Trumpet is not the 3rd woe, nor enacts the 3rd woe.
The 7th Trumpet declares Jesus as King over every single nation.
The 3rd woe is if Satan is declared the 8th king over the entire world.
They are not the same thing, obviously.
The Atonement Covenant is confirmed during the set of days of the 7th Trumpet. If God declares there is a need for the 8th kingdom, then there will be a 3rd woe. Otherwise if God does not allow an extension of time, there will be no 3rd woe, abomination of desolation, nor any 42 months for an 8th kingdom.
It is not an either or situation. The 7th Kingdom may only last 3.5 days, and then put on hold for 42 months and another 3.5 days.
Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
We don't know who the great voices in heaven are in Revelation 11:15. Presumingly those of high ranking angels. In Revelation 11:16-18, the 24 elders chime in. Saying that God's wrath has come, and the time to reward the prophets and saint, small and great.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
No, there is no such condition. The 3rd woe, without qualification, will be Satan cast down to earth having great wrath, knowing that he has on a time/times/half time left.
Revelation 12: Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
ewq1938
Well-Known Member
- Jul 11, 2015
- 5,998
- 1,228
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
The translation is hundreds of years old so language changes a little. Has the same meaning.
Since all kingdoms become Christ's at the 7th trump, the beast cannot rule as he did for the 42 months where he controlled the world and murdered Christians. He has no kingdom anymore, just a deceived army that God allows to be brought to Armageddon to be destroyed.
What are the three woes ?
5th trumpet - the flesh tormenting locust.
6th trumpet - 1/3 of mankind killed by the massive army
7th trumpet - Satan cast down to earth having great wrath, a time/times/half time - coinciding with the 42 months of the beast-king's reign.
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
The third woe may not even happen. It depends on the final harvest, and who is even left on the earth during the 7 Thunders.
Can you even explain yourself, why you place the 2 witnesses prior to the 7th Trumpet, when the 7th Trumpet is talked about in chapter 10? The 6th Trumpet is over before the 2 witnesses, even appear. The 7 Thunders happen between the 6th Trumpet, and the 2 witnesses. The 2 witnesses only do their work if there is a third woe. The temple being trampled and the time of the 2 witnesses in Revelation 11 is the same time period in Revelation 13. The earthquake in chapter 11 is the same one in chapter 16. They are explained from two different angles.
The 3rd woe is the abomination of desolation, and all in the area of Jerusalem are to flee. John does not portray Jesus as defeated, but certainly if God allows, this 42 month extension of time, Jesus and the 144k will have to leave and seemingly overcome by Satan, because Jesus and Satan do not co-reign on the same throne for the next 42 months.
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
That already started to happen back in the 6th Seal when the 144k are sealed. Jesus and the angels are on the earth during the Trumpets and Thunders. They are gathering the nations and dividing them from those who will live on earth during the Millennium, and those tossed into the LOF.
That is what Matthew 13 and Matthew 25 declare.
ewq1938
Well-Known Member
- Jul 11, 2015
- 5,998
- 1,228
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
No, that doesn't come from scripture. The 7th trump sounds 3.5 days after the death of the two prophets who as part of the two witnesses had 1260 days which matches the 42 months the beast has. Those times are over when the 7th trump sounds. Your error is the bad assumption the 3 woes in Rev 12 are somehow the 7th and 3rd woe but that is totally incorrect. The GT hasn't started in Rev 12, so it is impossible for the 7th trump to have sounded in that chp.
The two witnesses prophesy 1260 days, then are killed, then are brought back to life, then the 7th trumpet sounds. The 7th trumpet signifies the coming third woe to the inhabiters of the earth, i.e. Satan cast down having great wrath for the remaining time/times/half time of the 7 years. Therefore. the 1260 days are the first half, and the time/times.half time in the second half of the 7 years.
The temple will not be trampled for the first half of the 7 years. The Jews will be conducting animals sacrifices there, under the
watchful of the Antichrist, their thought-to-be messiah at the time. During that time, the two witnesses will be warning the Jews that their thought-to-be messiah is a phony.
It is not until the two witnesses as gone and the beast-king (former Antichrist) and his entourage trample down the temple complex for the 42 months of his rule, during the second half of the 7 years.
The two witnesses prophesy 1260 days, then are killed, then are brought back to life, then the 7th trumpet sounds. The 7th trumpet signifies the coming third woe to the inhabiters of the earth, i.e. Satan cast down having great wrath for the remaining time/times/half time of the 7 years. Therefore. the 1260 days are the first half, and the time/times.half time in the second half of the 7 years.
.The time/times/half time that Satan will have left coincides with the 42 months of the beast-king's rule.
The beast-king will be worshiped during that 42 months. And Satan, by indwelling the statue image of the beast-king, will also be worshiped (unknowingly by them who will worship the statue image).
Similar threads
