The " catching up " rapture must be so very very close!!

[ewq1938]

All 7 trumpets are part of the great tribulation.

No, only the 6th trump is the GT. The GT is 42 months, and Rev 11 has the two witnesses 1260 days ending at the same time as the 42 months end. That's when the 6th trump ends and the 7th trump sounds.

Revelation 12:12 takes place after the great tribulation has already begun.

Nope, it is about to begin according to the last verse of Rev 12:

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

That war is the GT, and it starts in Rev 13 with it's ending shown in Rev 11.

 

[Douggg]

No, only the 6th trump is the GT. The GT is 42 months

What is your basis for saying that only the 6th trumpet (second woe to the inhabiters of the earth) is the great tribulation. The great tribulation last 1335 days according to Daniel 12:11-12.

Nope, it is about to begin according to the last verse of Rev 12:

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

That war is the GT, and it starts in Rev 13 with it's ending shown in Rev 11.

Revelation 12:17 is referring to the Jews who don't flee into the mountains right away when they see the abomination of desolation statue image of the beast-king standing on the temple mount. Thus, they become vulnerable to the persecution of Satan, who will be present on the temple mount during the time/times/half time during the second half of the seven years, indwelling that statue image.

 

[ewq1938]

What is your basis for saying that only the 6th trumpet (second woe to the inhabiters of the earth) is the great tribulation.

I put it in the post:

The GT is 42 months, and Rev 11 has the two witnesses 1260 days ending at the same time as the 42 months end. That's when the 6th trump ends and the 7th trump sounds.

The great tribulation last 1335 days according to Daniel 12:11-12.

It's 42 months according to Rev 13.

Revelation 12:17 is referring to the Jews who don't flee into the mountains right away when they see the abomination of desolation statue image of the beast-king standing on the temple mount.

All of Rev 12 is prior to any part of the tribulation. The last verse of that chp proves that. The trib does not begin until Rev 13.

 

[Douggg]

put it in the post:

The GT is 42 months, and Rev 11 has the two witnesses 1260 days ending at the same time as the 42 months end. That's when the 6th trump ends and the 7th trump sounds.

I think you are probably referring to Revelation 11:14 (the second woe of the sixth trumpet) as concluding the two witnesses' 1260 days. Correct ? Is that not the basis of your thought ?

Revelation11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

But there is no mention of what the third woe is in the remainder of Revelation, verses 11:15-18.

Therefore, Revelation 11:14 is saying that John had already been shown what the second woe was (back in Revelation 9:13-21). And was about to the shown what the third woe would be. Note that before John was shown the second woe, Revelation 9:12 prefaces it with similar language as in Revelation 11:14. 12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter. Meaning John had just been shown what the first woe would be... and that were two more woes that he would be shown what they would be.

Revelation 12 is about that third woe and gives the relation of the two witnesses testimony of 1260 days being before that third woe takes place.

Revelation 12:6 - 1260 days of the two witnesses feeding the word of God to the woman (Israel), before the dragon is cast down to the earth. Then the war in the second heaven, and Satan and his angels cast down to earth in Revelation 12:7-9.

Then in Revelation 12:12 what the third woe is - stated to John, who heard a loud voice in heaven...

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

 

[ewq1938]

I think you are probably referring to Revelation 11:14 (the second woe of the sixth trumpet) as concluding the two witnesses' 1260 days. Correct ? Is that not the basis of your thought ?

Revelation11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

But there is no mention of what the third woe is in the remainder of Revelation, verses 11:15-18.

Therefore, Revelation 11:14 is saying that John had already been shown what the second woe was (back in Revelation 9:13-21). And was about to the shown what the third woe would be. Note that before John was shown the second woe, Revelation 9:12 prefaces it with similar language as in Revelation 11:14. 12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter. Meaning John had just been shown what the first woe would be... and that were two more woes that he would be shown what they would be.

Revelation 12 is about that third woe and gives the relation of the two witnesses testimony of 1260 days being before that third woe takes place.

Revelation 12:6 - 1260 days of the two witnesses feeding the word of God to the woman (Israel), before the dragon is cast down to the earth. Then the war in the second heaven, and Satan and his angels cast down to earth in Revelation 12:7-9.

Then in Revelation 12:12 what the third woe is - stated to John, who heard a loud voice in heaven...

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

The third woe is not found in Rev 12. It is in Rev 11, which is the conclusion of the 42 months/1260 days. Again, the word "woe" appearing does not mean any of the 3 woe trumps are present and sounding.

 

[Douggg]

The third woe is not found in Rev 12. It is in Rev 11, which is the conclusion of the 42 months/1260 days. Again, the word "woe" appearing does not mean any of the 3 woe trumps are present and sounding.

What verse(s) in Revelation 11 say what the third woe is ?

In Revelation 11:15,, the seventh angel sounds.

In Revelation 11:16-17, the twenty four elders in heaven are rejoicing . Right ?

Now look at what it says in Revelation 12:

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

So the 24 elders in heaven are rejoicing in Revelation 11:16-17. But here on earth - woe to the inhabiters of the earth sea, the third woe, Satan wrath knowing he has but a short time - the time, times, half time.

Now look at what it says in Revelation 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

The two witnesses testified (Revelation 11:7) of Jesus, and the gospel of salvation. Right ? And they loved not their lives unto death. Right ? Revelation 12:11 is talking about the two witnesses. And their 1260 days of testimony is in Revelation 12:6, feeding Israel the word of God, before the seventh trumpet sounds and Satan cast down to earth, and his wrath the third woe to the inhabiters of the earth.

 

[Douggg]

Again, the word "woe" appearing does not mean any of the 3 woe trumps are present and sounding.

In Revelation 12:

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

question: Who's voice is that ?

Answer: the voice of the seventh angel.

 

[Davy]

All of Rev 12 is prior to any part of the tribulation. The last verse of that chp proves that. The trib does not begin until Rev 13.

That I have to disagree with.

The "thousand two hundred and threescore days" (1260 days) of Revelation 12:6 represents the 1st half of the symbolic Daniel 9:27 "one week" (7 years).

Then Satan ("dragon") with his angels are booted out of the heavenly down to this earth, and that is when the latter half is given, with "a time, and times, and half a time" (1260 days) when the "serpent" goes after the symbolic "woman" that keeps God's commandments and have the Testimony of Jesus Christ, which means CHRISTIANS. That latter 1260 day period is... the time of "great tribulation" at the end. Jesus does not come PRIOR to the great tribulation; He comes AFTER... the tribulation to gather His saints, like He said in Matthew 24:29-31.

 

[ewq1938]

In Revelation 12:

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

question: Who's voice is that ?

Answer: the voice of the seventh angel.

No. That is impossible for the reasons I have already provided. BTW the voice of a trumpeter is the sound of the trumpet not a speaking voice.

 

[ewq1938]

What verse(s) in Revelation 11 say what the third woe is ?

Rev 9:12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.
Rev 9:13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,


Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

 

[Douggg]

Rev 9:12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.
Rev 9:13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,


Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Revelation 11:15 is heavens reaction to the seventh angel sounding. What verse in Revelation 11 says what the third woe to the inhabiters of the earth is ?

 

[ewq1938]

Revelation 11:15 is heavens reaction to the seventh angel sounding. What verse in Revelation 11 says what the third woe to the inhabiters of the earth is ?

Wrath.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

 

[Douggg]

Wrath.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

God's wrath is in the 7 vials of God's wrath poured out... after the two witnesses have been killed. The 7 vials of God's wrath are part of the great tribulation.

 

[Peterlag]

The global conflagrations described in Revelation will not take place until after the Rapture — that is until after God has evacuated His people from the planet.
Some ask what is holding things up. Why doesn’t God just get on with it? 2 Peter 3:9 answers. “The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.”
God’s “slowness” is a result of His mercy. But He will not delay forever. In the Old Testament, Israel came under God’s judgement many times. Over and over, they failed to live up to the bargain they made with God. They sinned. The rejected Him, His messengers, and His word. But the thing that often triggered His actual judgements was harm to children. For instance, when they engaged in child sacrifice to idols.

Children are being abused on an institutional level today, and it’s happening all over the world. Millions are being slain in the womb. If they survive those early days, psychological tricks are played on them in their classrooms and in their entertainments — tricks designed to inoculate them against receiving the Gospel and tricks made to confuse them and make them miserable. Could these things trigger the time of judgement on the earth? Yes.

In the meantime, every day is an act of God’s mercy and kindness, giving people time and space to come to Him, and allowing those of us who know Him to preach the Gospel to the whole world. Jesus said in John 9:4 (NASB), “We must work the works of Him who sent Me, as long as it is day; night is coming, when no man can work.” HalLindsey

You write well.

 

[ewq1938]

God's wrath is in the 7 vials of God's wrath poured out... after the two witnesses have been killed. The 7 vials of God's wrath are part of the great tribulation.

Nope. Those are poured after the GT is over. Obviously the sinful acts of the GT are punished by God not during that sinful time but after it.

 

[Douggg]

Nope. Those are poured after the GT is over. Obviously the sinful acts of the GT are punished by God not during that sinful time but after it.

You are claiming that God's wrath is the third trumpet woe of the great tribulation. Yet you say God's wrath of the 7 vials of God's wrath are not part of the great tribulation.

You are wrong on both accounts - that's why there is the conflict in your rationale.

 

[Timtofly]

No, in Revelation 5-6, that book is not referred to as the Lamb's book of life.

There are six places in Revelation the Lamb's book of life is referred to.

1. in Revelation 3:5
2. in Revelation 13:8
3. in Revelation 17:8
4. in Revelation 20:12. Revelation 20:15
5. in Revelation 21:27
6. in Revelation 22:19

Why does this book have to have a name when it is unsealed? This book is the Atonement Covenant. The Covenant confirmed in Daniel 9:27. There is only one Atonement, and one book that contains the names of all under that Atonement, and that is the sealed Lamb's book of life.

In chapters 5 and 6 the Lamb is referenced opening His Book, that the Lamb alone can open. That Jesus is the Lamb, points to the fact that only Jesus as the Lamb opens His own book of the same name.

You are saying at a birthday party those presents are not the one's belonging to the one celebrating their birthday. The person opens up something else called presents, but later we see other presents that belong to that person, but are not the birthday presents opened up.

Do you not understand, that no one could be added to as an afterthought, nor taken away in wrath, prior to the point of this Lamb's book of life opened after the Second Coming? The whole point of souls waiting in sheol, is because they have yet to be removed from the Lamb's book of life.

God's work was done prior to creation. The physical aspect of the Lamb was accomplished on the Cross. The Lamb's book of life was written and sealed prior to creation. Nothing could be changed to force any human either way to accept or reject God.

Until death is done away with, the Lamb's book of life will not be settled as to who gets removed, and who is confirmed to never be removed. The last enemy is death.

 

[Douggg]

Why does this book have to have a name when it is unsealed? This book is the Atonement Covenant. The Covenant confirmed in Daniel 9:27. There is only one Atonement, and one book that contains the names of all under that Atonement, and that is the sealed Lamb's book of life.

In chapters 5 and 6 the Lamb is referenced opening His Book, that the Lamb alone can open. That Jesus is the Lamb, points to the fact that only Jesus as the Lamb opens His own book of the same name.

You are saying at a birthday party those presents are not the one's belonging to the one celebrating their birthday. The person opens up something else called presents, but later we see other presents that belong to that person, but are not the birthday presents opened up.

Do you not understand, that no one could be added to as an afterthought, nor taken away in wrath, prior to the point of this Lamb's book of life opened after the Second Coming? The whole point of souls waiting in sheol, is because they have yet to be removed from the Lamb's book of life.

God's work was done prior to creation. The physical aspect of the Lamb was accomplished on the Cross. The Lamb's book of life was written and sealed prior to creation. Nothing could be changed to force any human either way to accept or reject God.

Until death is done away with, the Lamb's book of life will not be settled as to who gets removed, and who is confirmed to never be removed. The last enemy is death.

The text of Revelation 5-6 does not give a name to the book. It seems to me to be the book of the end.

Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?


14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

 

[Timtofly]

Rev 9:12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.
Rev 9:13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,


Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

The third woe can only happen after the 7th Trumpet sounds.

The second woe could only happen after the 6th Trumpet sounded.

The 2 witnesses happen after the 7 Thunders. Which makes it impossible to happen during the 6th Trumpet.

The 2nd woe continues into the 7 Thunders. But is finished by the time the 7 Thunders sound. You all keep forgetting the 7 Thunders as if they will never happen.

Then you switch all the chronological order John gave to fit your interpretation.

The third woe comes in the midst of the week of the days of the 7th Trumpet. Does any one remember what happened at Jericho how there were days of short blasts from the Trumpets and then the final 7th day there was a long blast? The 7th Trumpet itself will last for a set of days. An angel can shine as a star for thousands of years. I don't see why it is a problem if the sound from the 7th Trumpet lasted 7 days, 8 days, or 42 months.

The 7th Trumpet does not stop until after the 42 months of Abomination of Desolation. Jericho had humans blowing Trumpets. The empire set up by Satan has the blast from the 7th Trumpet by an angel the entire time. The same 42 months as given as 1260 days of the 2 witnesses. Both periods mentioned end in the same earthquake. The 7th Trumpet stops after the 1 hour battle of Armageddon. The 7th Trumpet is not the third woe. But is God reminding Satan he only gets 42 months for the 3rd woe. The 3.5 days the 2 witnesses lay dead in the streets of Jerusalem is the last half of the week of the 7th Trumpet sounding.

 

[Timtofly]

The text of Revelation 5-6 does not give a name to the book. It seems to me to be the book of the end.

Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?


14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

The Atonement, the Covenant, the Lamb's book of life is the Gospel, the good news of redemption. All named therein are redeemed.