BlessedPeace
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The thing about any religion is,it is designed to divide a people.
Especially as pertains to Christianity.
By designation, The Elect of God, imparts this.
The Only Way We Will Ever Agree
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Especially as pertains to Christianity.
By designation, The Elect of God, imparts this.
Ronald David Bruno
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On the fundamentals, the essential doctrines, we can be in agreement. But we are all on different levels of knowledge and understanding. It can be compared to a kindergardener discussing things about life with freshman in High School. What can they agree on? The alphabet, identification of colors, names of animals and more complex things but not too much. But then there is also different schools of theology, we can be advanced in that theology that is actually wrong. I am confronted with JW's that consider themselves elders and even "circuit over seers". They have been in the word (NWT) for longer than I. What can we agree on? Some things, to be fair, lots of historical things, but you know ... we usually hit a wall eventually.
Pride gets in the way and of course sin.
The Holy Spirit reveals and delivers to each on different levels and in time frames - if they actually believe that the Holy Spirit is a person. Otherwise they are usually stunted in there growth.
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I think there is a very simply principle which can guide us in this, if we consider it to be true.
God will not contradict Himself.
Therefore, what is written will not contradict what we think it means, if what we think is correct.
Walter Martin had a good saying, "Words have meanings". It seems overly simple, but this is a momentous truth. God wrote His Book using a great many propositional declarative statements, which are composed of words, and those words have meanings.
I believe God chose the words He did because of the very things those words mean.
So what do we make of "spiritual understanding"? I believe that man cannot comprehend the correct meaning of the words written not because he can only see the meanings of those words, and cannot see the "spiritual" meaning, but because he cannot comprehend the truth brought by those very words. And then when he learns the true meaning, he finds that he now understands the very words written, as they are presented.
God will never contradict His Own words. A "spiritual understanding" will never contradict or overturn what is written.
Much love!
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Dear marks,
What you stated above is very confusing - and from what I can tell, it has very little scriptural support.
Scripture says that the truth of God is purposely concealed from this world and from believers (Early Rain only) who have not been converted.
Even for converted believers, understanding the truth of God is a difficult process:
Prov 2:1 My son (a converted believer), if you receive my words and treasure up my commandments with you, 2 making your ear attentive to wisdom and inclining your heart to understanding; 3 yes, if you call out for insight and raise your voice for understanding, 4 if you seek it like silver and search for it as for hidden treasures, 5 then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God.
Isaiah 28:9-13 sheds more light on the concealed nature of God's Word:
Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
Only believers who have been weaned from the milk (converted) have the ability to understand doctrine.
Do you understand how a believer is converted and weaned from the milk?
I presented the answer in my first post by presenting the healing of the blind man in Mark 8:15-25. Conversion and the healing of a believer's spiritual blindness only happens after the person has received both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit.
Paul's conversion experience also teaches the same truth.
Paul received the Early Rain of the Spirit on the Damascus Road. That is when Paul called Jesus "Lord" and had a measure of faith. Paul's physical blindness at that time represented his spiritual blindness. After Paul spent three days in Damascus where he could not eat or drink, Christ came to Paul a second time (typed by Ananias). When He came, Christ gave Paul the Latter Rain of the Spirit. This is when the scales fell off Paul's eyes and when Paul was told to eat "meat" (truth of God).
Unless Christ heals a believer's spiritual blindness, they simply will not be able to understand the spiritual teachings of God's Word - no matter how much time they spend studying it.
The many different churches of this world consist of believers who have only received the Early Rain of the Spirit. Because these believers are spiritually blind, there is very little truth taught in the churches (approx. 2,000 different denominations/sects). The churches have become little more than places where the "blind lead the blind".
Because the churches are blind, Satan was able to deceive them and make them apostate. This happened near the end of the 1st century when the spirit of anti-Christ invaded the churches. And just as Paul was told, none of the flock was spared (Acts 20:29-31).
Below is where Christ teaches how a believer becomes apostate:
Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.
The spiritual symbol of an unclean spirit represents a spirit which teaches Satan's false truth through lies and deceptions.
Since a new believer remains spiritually blind (Mark 8:15-25) after receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit, they cannot replace their worldly false beliefs with the truth of Christ. ONE unclean spirit leaves but comes back with SEVEN more. The number "seven" represents perfection. In this case, the number seven represents the perfection of Satan's lies/deceptions which come to a believer by the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ. Now, instead of ONE unclean spirit within the believer, they now have EIGHT. The number eight is a spiritual symbol which represents a new spiritual condition. In this case, the new spiritual condition is worse than the first.
This "worse than the first" spiritual condition causes the believer to become a False Prophet, a Man of Sin, a Minister of Satan and a Seven Headed Beast with Ten Horns & Crowns.
What I have presented above is why there is no unity of understanding in the churches.
One final point: the apostasy of the church did not happen by accident. God planned and caused it to happen to satisfy His own purposes. If you read Isa 28:9-12 carefully, you will see that truth being taught there.
Joe
Let's just simplify it then. God will never contradict Himself, so if you think something that contradicts the written word, you'll need to revisit it.
Some say God's truth is hidden behind spiritual sayings which use different meanings for words than what those words normally mean. I say God's truth is hidden in plain sight, as people's eyes cannot see what is plainly said, until the Spirit opens their eyes.
Much love!
Dear marks,
I agree that God's Word does not contradict itself. I never said it did.
Also, there are no statements in my posts that are contradicted by scripture. In fact, I went to great lengths to present the scriptures that support my statements. If you believe there are contradictions, please point them out.
Joe
I'm sorry, I'm not trying to say you are contradicting Scripture. My main thought for this thread is that God will not contradict His Own Scripture, and that His Scriptures have certain meanings that expressed in His word choices.
It's my thought that without the Holy Spirit's enlightenment, we read the words, but without comprehension. Not that we read the words, and understand what the words say, but don't understand what God means by them. I think they just bounce off our minds until the Holy Spirit reveals the meaning.
And then we can go back to those very words, and see that this is in fact exactly what they say, only, we didn't see it before. But we can know that our new understanding is correct because it turns out to be exactly what was written.
Much love!
Early and latter rains are seasonal rains. They are used for examples of when we need patience, but there is no teaching of an early and latter rain as some kind of 2-step spiritual growth.
No one was actually born again, immersed into Christ, in Solomon's day. Of course I fully agree that we are to seek wisdom and understanding.
These people are compared to babies. There is better passage for us I think:
Hebrews 5:12-14 KJV
12) For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13) For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14) But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
"who by reason of use", that is, if you do what you know, God will give you more.
Other times the blind were immediately healed. I don't make it my practice to derive doctrine from narratives. And again, early and latter rain is something specific, and isn't given in Scripture as some kind of pattern for the Christian's life.
Maybe we have different ideas of what constitutes "the church". I differentiate between the true body of Christ and what Sir Robert Anderson referred to as Christendom, that is, the culture that identifies with Christianity, but is not actually the body of Christ.
Personally I do not believe a Christian in whom the Holy Spirit dwells can be demon possessed.
I like that you post the Scriptures, where you have, why not this one?
Mark 8:15-25 KJV
15) And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod.
16) And they reasoned among themselves, saying, It is because we have no bread.
17) And when Jesus knew it, he saith unto them, Why reason ye, because ye have no bread? perceive ye not yet, neither understand? have ye your heart yet hardened?
18) Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember?
19) When I brake the five loaves among five thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? They say unto him, Twelve.
20) And when the seven among four thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? And they said, Seven.
21) And he said unto them, How is it that ye do not understand?
22) And he cometh to Bethsaida; and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him.
23) And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.
24) And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
25) After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.
Where in this passage do you find this axiom,
"a new believer remains spiritually blind"
I am not seeing it. I do see where the healing was in two parts, but then, as I've already mentioned, that was in this one case. It's a narrative passage of the healing of a blind man, not a doctrinal passage on the state of the new convert.
I think at the end of the day we have very different ideas about what it means to be reborn.
Much love!
VictoryinJesus
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By reading through the thread …do you think that THE way for everyone to agree …is for everyone to read what the word says literally? Later you mention it’s when something is turned into something spiritual that causes the problem?
Here is my question. How did every one come to the same understanding of “you must eat My flesh, and drink My blood?” Because I’m doubting anyone…I don’t see anyone disagreeing—huffing or debating over whether or not Jesus was talking cannibalism. So that is something all can agree on, no? Still, it’s not because it’s taken literal. Although from agreeing it’s not promoting cannibalism, and maybe even agreeing “He who eats My flesh and drinks My bloods has eternal life in Him” isn’t literal …it goes off into debates over “what exactly does that mean?” Everyone having an answer, opposite from each other.
I love your question and I don’t have an answer. But I don’t think your conclusion is going to solve it either …if your conclusion is what I think it is, which is let it just be literal and all will be fine. No more confusion.
It's that Jesus went on to say His words here were spiritual, so we know He wasn't promoting cannibalism. So the interpret the entire passage according to the terms stated in the passage, this is what I'm looking at.
People take the 144,000 sealed in the Revelation as being a symbol, and then disagree over what the symbol should mean, but it's because the Bible doesn't present it as symbolic. Eating Jesus flesh and drinking His blood, He's said this was spiritual. And later He gives us more, "drink, this is the new covenant in my blood", we are given these things.
No one disputes over what the red dragon in Revelation 12 means, because we are told, that ancient serpent, the devil, Satan.
Our thoughts are subjective, while the written word is objective. We have to match our thoughts to the word. If all our thoughts are matched to the Word, then all of our thoughts will match each other's also.
It's like, If A=C, and B=C, then we know A=B. If my thoughts match what is written, and your thoughts match what is written, their my thoughts will match your thoughts.
Much love!
VictoryinJesus
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John 6:60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
You said it is simply (paraphrasing) because He said His words are spiritual. They are Life. Do you mean only signaling in the one instance that what He is about to say is spiritual? What about all the rest of the words He spoke?
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VictoryinJesus
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all I can say is to me “context is king” means for example Romans 7:1-5 of the woman who is called an adulteress and …she who is free
‘Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? [2] For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. [3] So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man. [4] Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. [5] For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.’
Context to me is going all the way back the Law of Jealousies in Numbers 5, and reading both Romans 7: 1-5 in context with the woman caught in adultery(in Numbers 5) and made to drink the bitter water, and the woman free who conceives seed( in Numbers 5). To stay in context with Romans 7:1-5.
But to others that would be “taken out of context”…
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Dear marks,
You said:
Early and latter rains are seasonal rains. They are used for examples of when we need patience, but there is no teaching of an early and latter rain as some kind of 2-step spiritual growth.
The Early and Latter Rain concept is very concealed in scripture. It is not milk - it is strong meat. You will likely not be able to "see" what I present below because your foundation of truth is presently at a lower level.
The farming analogy which is used throughout scripture teaches the pathway to salvation. The Early and Latter Rains are symbols used in that analogy. The Early Rain occurs when Christ plants His seed of the Holy Spirit within a person (Mat 13:24). With this seed, the person becomes a believer and enters the church.
Consider the scripture below which uses the farming analogy to teach its message:
Hos 6:3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he (Christ) shall come unto us as the RAIN, as the latter and former (Early) RAIN unto the earth.
Water is the symbol for the Holy Spirit. It can come as rain or snow (or even spit).
Consider what James says below:
James 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the farmer waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receives the EARLY and LATTER RAIN. 8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.
James makes this comment to believers who are have received the Early Rain and are waiting for the Lord to return with the Latter Rain. James purpose in making this statement is to tell them to have patience for the Lord's return.
Note: The Second Coming of Christ is NOT a one-time visible appearance to this world at the literal end of the age. Christ's second coming is a reoccurring spiritual event within the Elect. After Christ gives a believer the Latter Rain, Christ will appear to them because their spiritual blindness has been healed.
Consider these verses that teach on the Second Coming of Christ:
Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for THE TIME IS AT HAND.
Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Rev 22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
The book of Revelation says that the time for Christ's return was "at hand" when John received the vision and that Christ is, was and will be coming quickly. Those who are blessed will "keep" the sayings of the prophecy. They are the Elect.
The prophecy (like all end-time prophecy) is teaching on the pathway to salvation that leads an Elect person to their conversion and salvation. If Christ does not return to a person before they die, they are not one of the Elect.
Below, Paul makes a statement concerning the Early and Latter Rain concept, though he does not use those terms:
Heb 9:28 So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.
When Christ gives a person the Early Rain of the Spirit, they will only see Christ carnally (Christ and Him crucified). This is when Christ first appears to them. The second time Christ appears, He will appear spiritually and bring salvation to the believer who has been waiting for Him to return.
The Jewish Elect received the Early Rain during Christ's journey to the cross. That is when they called Jesus "Lord" and received a measure of faith. At that time, they remained spiritually blind and could not understand Christ's teachings (the story of the blind man in Mark 8:15-25 applies). They were not converted. But Christ told them in John 14:18 that He would return and give them the Spirit of Truth. The Spirit of Truth is another name for the Latter Rain because the Latter Rain will give the believer the ability to understand the spiritual teachings of Christ.
The pathway to salvation begins when Christ comes to an unbeliever and gives them the Early Rain of the Spirit. In the marriage analogy, this is when a person becomes "espoused" to Christ. With the Early Rain, the person will receive a measure of faith and certain spiritual gifts.
Without the gift of the Early Rain of the Spirit, no one would ever call Jesus "Lord" but would only consider the gospel "foolishness".
1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.
1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
God's Word also says that the people who are given the Early Rain in this age are said to be "many". They are called to be saints.
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
From the "many" who enter the church, a "few" of them have been chosen for salvation. It is these "few" who will receive the Latter Rain and become saints.
Now look at Paul's first letter to the Corinthian church and notice how he addresses them:
1Cor 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
Paul says that the Corinthian believers have been "called to be saints". They are not saints at this time because they have not received the Latter Rain and been converted.
Now look at verses 6-8:
1Cor 1:6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you: 7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ: 8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
The testimony of Christ was confirmed in the Corinthian believers when they received the Early Rain of the Spirit and they made a confession of faith. That is also when they received their spiritual gifts and began waiting for the Lord to return with the Latter Rain of the Spirit. When Christ comes with the Latter Rain, that is when a believer is converted and they become blameless when judgment comes (Day of the Lord).
The reason the Latter Rain is necessary for a person's salvation is because the Early Rain of the Spirit is given in "measure" (a small amount) and will not convert them:
Deu 32:2 My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain (Early Rain) upon the tender herb, and as the showers (Latter Rain) upon the grass:
Job 37:6 For he saith to the snow, Be thou on the earth; likewise to the small rain (Early Rain), and to the great rain (Latter Rain) of his strength.
Joel 2:23 Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in Jehovah your God; for he giveth you the former rain (Early Rain) in just measure, and he causes to come down for you the rain, the former rain and the latter rain, in the first month.
Because the Early Rain leaves a new believer spiritually blind, Satan will come to them and plant his seed (spirit of anti-Christ) within them, too (Parable of the Wheat and the Tares). This is the Abomination of Desolation that causes the new believer to become apostate. They will remain in this condition until they die or until Christ comes to them a second time with the Latter Rain.
These verses apply:
Psa 68:9 Thou, O God, didst send a plentiful RAIN (Latter Rain), whereby thou didst confirm thine inheritance (as one of the Elect/heirs), WHEN IT WAS WEARY.
Jer 3:3 Therefore the showers have been withholden, and there hath been no Latter Rain; and thou hadst a whore's forehead, thou refusedst to be ashamed.
Note: The spirit of anti-Christ did not come until after Paul wrote his letters to the churches. Because of this, the new believers to whom Paul was writing did not fall away and become apostate as like what happens now.
That is all the time I have for today. If you have any specific questions, please ask.
I will read and respond to the rest of your post tomorrow (as the Lord wills).
Joe
Dear marks,
Since you are not showing any signs that you are going to be able to "see" what I am presenting, there is no purpose in continuing trying to help you. It's just not your time now - but your time will come. God's Word says so:
1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Joe
Sounds good to me. I've discussed this former and latter rain concept with quite a number of people over the years, and it's just not there. The real deal is in putting on and putting off, in walking by faith, by learning of Jesus.
Some need to find a reason why they feel stalled in their walk, and the come to the conclusion that they are waiting for the "rest of the Holy Spirit". But that's not Biblical. I'm perfectly happy to leave it alone, or, if you really do want to discuss it, we can work our way through passage by passage, each in turn, to show how they are taken out of context, how they speak towards other things, and how God has already given us all we need for life and godliness, and we need to believe, and walk in it.
You apparently don't think we've been given all we need, I guess.
Personally, I find that I don't really need long convoluted arguments, that the truth can be fairly simply expressed if you understand it.
Just one. It's a simile. Most of your examples are similies. We have patience waiting for the Lord as the farmer has patience waiting for the rain. But waiting for the Lord isn't waiting for rain. It's compared to it.
Do you believe these verses are completely and fully true?
2 Peter 1:3-4 KJV
3) According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4) Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
Much love!
There is nothing like this in Scripture. Rather, we receive the Spirit when we are reborn, Who teaches us. John's Gospel has a lot to say about that.
Much love!
Dear marks,
Yes, they are true but you are misunderstanding them.
Look at how Peter addresses the letter:
2Pet 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
Faith is what is given with the Early Rain of the Spirit. With the Early Rain, a person will make a confession of faith but they are not converted. They have been called to glory and virtue and have been given great and precious promises "whereby these ye might be partakers of the divine nature". These believers are not partakers yet.
Read on down a few verses:
2Pet 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; 6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; 7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. 8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. 10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
From Peter's comments above, it is VERY CLEAR that these believers are not converted and that it is still possible for them to fall from grace just as it was possible for Peter to fall from grace before he was converted at Pentecost.
A converted believer who has received both the Early and Latter Rains & judgment cannot fall from grace because they have been made like Christ and have become a "perfect man" (Eph 4:13). They are already being fruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Peter's main point to these new believers is to encourage them to remain faithful and to strive to mature in the Lord so that when Christ returns as the Bridegroom (marriage analogy applies), He will find them as a "chaste virgin" (2Cor 11:2). You must remember that at this time, the spirit of anti-Christ had not come and corrupted the church yet. The new believers were remaining faithful (chaste/not fornicating with Satan) while they waited for the Lord. If they are in a chaste condition when He returns, their calling and election will be "sure".
So how do I know when conversion occurs?
Peter's conversion happened when he received the Latter Rain of the Spirit (baptism of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth) on the Day of Pentecost:
Luke 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: 32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
When Christ made this statement to Peter, Peter had only received the Early Rain of the Spirit and had a measure of faith. However, since the Early Rain of the Spirit is given only in a small measure, it was still possible for Peter to fall from grace. Because Peter was still spiritually weak, Satan knew it was still possible to cause him to fall away. But after Peter received the Latter Rain on the Day of Pentecost and was converted, Peter became untouchable by Satan.
Consider these verses which relate to what Isa 28:9-12 teaches:
Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Heb 5:13 For every one that uses milk is unskillful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 14 But strong meat belongs to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
After a person receives the Early Rain of the Spirit, they begin the pathway to salvation as a "babe" who still draws milk from the breast. In this condition, they are "unskillful in the Word of Righteousness". But after they receive the Latter Rain and are converted, they become as a little child who will grow to "full age".
Without the Early Rain, the babe cannot be born. Without the Latter Rain, the babe cannot grow into a little child and onto "full age".
And as Christ said, when a babe becomes a little child, that is the point of conversion. It happens because Christ gives the babe the Latter Rain of the Spirit, followed by judgment. Conversion can happen no other way.
Joe
No way all will agree. Scriptures say so:
2 Thess. 2:8 Then, indeed, the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of his mouth and bring to nothing by the manifestation of his presence. 9 But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders 10 and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved. 11 That is why God lets a deceptive influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie, 12 in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness.
As you can see, one person can find the truth depending on his attitude. If there is a person who says he is seeking the truth but does not accept a Bible study that tests his beliefs with the Scriptures, then that person has not done all he can to find the truth. He, too, cannot say that he is not wrong, because he has not yet passed through fire what he believes...
A good disposition and a heart willing to be obedient is what will make God allow someone to realize what he has to do. He who is not willing to change his beliefs and practices if necessary is not fit to be loyal to Jesus.
Matt. 7:13 Go in through the narrow gate, because broad is the gate and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are finding it.
In this world people do not want to be taught how to live. They believe that on their own they can arrive at a knowledge of biblical truth. But if that were the case, Jesus would not have sent anyone to teach others. You cannot be a teacher without first being a student.
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