Theistic Agnosticism - The honesty to admit we don't know everything

[St. SteVen]

Thread, back from the dead.

LOL

We should always ask ourselves, regarding the answers we have—-

Is this right? What if it isn’t?

It's a Pandora's box of sorts.

Once we start asking questions, things can get VERY uncomfortable.
Christians like to have their doctrine in a nice tidy box.
They don't like challenging questions, or anyone making waves.

I remember confronting the forever burning hell doctrine.
Having to contend with "life" not being eternal.
As in, if "eternal punishment" isn't eternal, then neither is "eternal life" eternal.
Say what? (See Matthew 25:46)

Same thing with questioning the origins and interpretation of the Bible.
My wife rightly asked, "If you can't trust the Bible, what can you trust?"
Great question really.

For most of history, as I understand it, the questions have been more important than the answers.
Christianity seems to stand alone in its dogmatic claims of having ALL the answers.
Even Jesus understood the value of discussing these things.

Luke 10:26 NIV
“What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

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[St. SteVen]

Everyone loves their own brand.

Yes.
Christian forums are like a failed economy.
Everyone is selling and no one is buying.

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[Jack]

Yes.
Christian forums are like a failed economy.
Everyone is selling and no one is buying.

/

The Christian Bible is the written Word of God. It's not for sale. You either believe it or you burn in Hell "forever and ever".

 

[ElieG12]

We don't need to know everything to be happy while we worship our Creator. Look at it like this: If we knew everything we would be just like God. It seems like a totally ridiculous idea to me. IMHO for a previously unknown truth to become part of our knowledge, the ideal conditions have to be in place so that that information is used in the best possible way.

Eccl. 3:11 He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has even put eternity in their heart; yet mankind will never find out the work that the true God has made from start to finish.

In any case, the path of the righteous becomes clearer like the day after it dawns. It means we will know what we really need in the right moment.

Prov. 4:18 But the path of the righteous is like the bright morning light
That grows brighter and brighter until full daylight.

Actually, the task of discovering things is one of the activities given to humans when we were created. The first human couple had the task of extending Eden into unexplored territories, all the way to the whole planet, and that required discovering new things and facing new challenges as they progressed in their task.

Gen. 1:28 Further, God blessed them, and God said to them: “Be fruitful and become many, fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving on the earth.”

God promises that in the future human beings will be very informed people, because they will be taught by Jehovah himself:

Is. 11:8 The nursing child will play over the lair of a cobra,
And a weaned child will put his hand over the den of a poisonous snake.
9 They will not cause any harm
Or any ruin in all my holy mountain,
Because the earth will certainly be filled with the knowledge of Jehovah
As the waters cover the sea.

... 54:13 And all your sons will be taught by Jehovah,
And the peace of your sons will be abundant.

 

[St. SteVen]

I remember confronting the forever burning hell doctrine.
Having to contend with "life" not being eternal.
As in, if "eternal punishment" isn't eternal, then neither is "eternal life" eternal.
Say what? (See Matthew 25:46)

I need to follow this up by saying this turned out to not be a problem at all.

Since the "punishment", that is, correction and restoration, only lasts for an age.
That "life" likewise is measured in ages. And fortunately, one age follows the next.
So, not a problem. Happy, happy. =o)

/ cc: @Mr E

 

[Mr E]

I need to follow this up by saying this turned out to not be a problem at all.

Since the "punishment", that is, correction and restoration, only lasts for an age.
That "life" likewise is measured in ages. And fortunately, one age follows the next.
So, not a problem. Happy, happy. =o)

/ cc: @Mr E

You are either baiting me, or inviting me to comment. Is there a difference?

I remember confronting the forever burning hell doctrine.
Having to contend with "life" not being eternal.
As in, if "eternal punishment" isn't eternal, then neither is "eternal life" eternal.
Say what? (See Matthew 25:46)

True. Kind of. If we used different terms as an example, it might be more easily understood as a concept- this 'eternal life vs eternal punishment' idea. If we said "freedom" is our natural state and that all of us in the beginning were born free-- all of us, in the sense of Americans-- the home of the free and the land of the brave-- our inheritance is to remain free -forever. But no one really questions the idea that our democratic Republic protects our freedoms, however "freedom" is ours only for as long as we can keep it. And that's the nature of eternal life as well. It's life everlasting, for as long as you can keep it... Remain in me. (John 15) Don't fall away.

That 'forever fire' does indeed burn forever, but not as a form of punishment- it's purposeful. Like the refiners fire eliminates the dross and purifies the gold (eternal life) the fire destroys the unproductive branches for the good of the tree (of eternal life)-- it's not 'to punish' the branches-- it's to benefit what remains.

There's more to it all, of course, but you are on the right track. Your inquiries are honest. Many people hope that they discover truth. The truth isn't hidden, it right in front of you, like your reflection in a foggy mirror. It doesn't have to be discovered-- it only has to be revealed. You just have to wipe away whatever it is that's preventing you from seeing clearly.

--Don't take my word for it.

 

[St. SteVen]

You are either baiting me, or inviting me to comment. Is there a difference?

I was motivated by what I felt was a loose end that I needed to tie up for anyone who read my post.
I did cc you because the post I was explaining was addressed to you originally. Thanks for your reply.

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[amadeus]

We don't need to know everything

Indeed, but we do need to love the Truth, God's Truth, even though we not know it all like He does:

2Th 2:10	And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2th 2:11	And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

to be happy while we worship our Creator. Look at it like this: If we knew everything we would be just like God. It seems like a totally ridiculous idea to me. IMHO for a previously unknown truth to become part of our knowledge, the ideal conditions have to be in place so that that information is used in the best possible way.

Are we, even the most mature of us, "just like God"? Certainly not, but should we not always be on the approach? What is the promise?

1jo 3:2

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Eccl. 3:11 He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has even put eternity in their heart; yet mankind will never find out the work that the true God has made from start to finish.

In any case, the path of the righteous becomes clearer like the day after it dawns. It means we will know what we really need in the right moment.

Prov. 4:18 But the path of the righteous is like the bright morning light
That grows brighter and brighter until full daylight.

Amen!

Actually, the task of discovering things is one of the activities given to humans when we were created. The first human couple had the task of extending Eden into unexplored territories, all the way to the whole planet, and that required discovering new things and facing new challenges as they progressed in their task.

Gen. 1:28 Further, God blessed them, and God said to them: “Be fruitful and become many, fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving on the earth.”

God promises that in the future human beings will be very informed people, because they will be taught by Jehovah himself:

Is. 11:8 The nursing child will play over the lair of a cobra,
And a weaned child will put his hand over the den of a poisonous snake.
9 They will not cause any harm
Or any ruin in all my holy mountain,
Because the earth will certainly be filled with the knowledge of Jehovah
As the waters cover the sea.

... 54:13 And all your sons will be taught by Jehovah,
And the peace of your sons will be abundant.

Give God the glory!

 

[Jack]

I was motivated by what I felt was a loose end that I needed to tie up for anyone who read my post.
I did cc you because the post I was explaining was addressed to you originally. Thanks for your reply.

/

You still didn't answer my simple question. Do you believe any of the Christian Bible is the written Word of God?? Your refusal to answer clearly means you don't know believe any of the Bible is the Word of God! So your reason to be here is to attack the Bible?

 

[Gottservant]

The world wants all the answers, we must be ready with our answer.

 

[St. SteVen]

The world wants all the answers, we must be ready with our answer.

If Jesus is the answer, what is the question?

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[Gottservant]

If Jesus is the answer, what is the question?

/

The Mystery of God, is for those that repent (selah)

Is it the Mystery of God, that is the question?

 

[St. SteVen]

The Mystery of God, is for those that repent (selah)

Is it the Mystery of God, that is the question?

Why would "the world" be concerned about that?

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[Gottservant]

Why would "the world" be concerned about that?

/

Well, the world wants all the answers, but it doesn't want the One that makes an answer true?

Why God cares is a mystery?

 

[St. SteVen]

Well, the world wants all the answers, but it doesn't want the One that makes an answer true?

Why God cares is a mystery?

Sounds like you have neither questions nor answers.

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[Gottservant]

Sounds like you have neither questions nor answers.

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If you want someone to learn, don't change! (selah)

 

[St. SteVen]

This term came up this morning in a discussion over coffee. I thought it worth discussing further.

Being raised in the church, I was held in a bubble of "we have all the answers."
Now that I am an adult, I realize the reason for that. We DIDN'T have all the questions. I know, I know... (who does?)

What are the spiritual consequences for admitting that we don't know everything?

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