Where did the Bible come from? - Shot out of a canon

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St. SteVen

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The purpose of this topical thread is to discuss where the Bible came from.
I keep encountering forum members that seem to have no clue, or at least some misconceptions
about the origins, history, issues and substance of the scriptures.

I invite others to share their knowledge on the subject. The link below is the best thing I have read on the subject.
I plan to post a few quotes from it. Please offer your own. Thanks.

Majority Text vs. Critical Text vs. Textus Receptus – Textual Criticism 101​

https://www.bereanpatriot.com/majority-text-vs-critical-text-vs-textus-receptus-textual-criticism-101/#Corruption-of-the-Alexandrian-text-type

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St. SteVen

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What is Textual Criticism?​

Here is an excellent definition of Textual Criticism from Dan Wallace, who is one of the most respected Textual Critics in the world today.

Textual Criticism is:

The study of the copies of a written document whose original (the autograph) is unknown or non-existent, for the primary purpose of determining the exact wording of the original.
Source.
The practice of Textual Criticism is notcriticizing the Bible“, it’s trying to recover the Bible’s original text. A “textual critic” is not someone who criticizes the Bible, but someone who tries their best to reconstruct the original text.

It shouldn’t come as a surprise, but we don’t have the original documents that Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, and other New Testament writers wrote. They were originally written on either papyrus (essentially paper) or possibly parchment (animal skins) which have long since degraded with time and use. However, the originals were copied many, many times. Those copies were copied, which were copied, which were copied, which were

Well, you get the idea.

So what we have are copies of copies of the original (sometimes many generations of copying deep). Before Gutenberg invented the printing press in the early-mid 1400s, everything was copied by hand. Therefore, it should come as no surprise that the scribes who did the copying occasionally made some mistakes.

When two copies disagree with each other, you have a variant in the text between two documents: this is (unsurprisingly) called a “Textual Variant”.

Clever, right?

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St. SteVen

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What “Textual Variants”? How bad are They?​

Fortunately, they just aren’t that bad. We can broadly class all Textual Variants into two classes.

  • Meaningful Variants. These textual variants have an impact on what the text means. For example, if one manuscript said “Jesus was happy” and another says “Jesus was sad”, that’s a meaningful variant because it changes the meaning of the text.
  • Viable Variants. These Textual Variants have a decent chance of having the wording of the original document. Some variants appear in only a single (late) manuscript, and thus the chances of them being in the original text are extremely low.
From those two options, we can create a list of four types of Textual Variant.

  1. Neither meaningful nor viable (they don’t change the meaning and have no chance of being original)
  2. Viable but not meaningful (they don’t change the meaning and have a chance of being original)
  3. Meaningful but Not viable (they do change the meaning, but have no chance of being original)
  4. Both Viable and meaningful (they do change the meaning and do have a chance of being original)
We’ll look at #1 and #2 two together



Textual Variants that are NOT meaningful, even if viable.​

These are Textual Variants which have no effect on anything. These comprise over 75% of all textual variants, which means over 75% of textual variants have no effect on anything whatsoever.

In fact, the most common type of Textual Variant is spelling differences, often a single letter. Remember, there was no dictionary in ancient times, and thus no defined right or wrong way to spell a word. The single most common textual variant is called a “moveable Nu“, with “Nu” being the Greek letter which sounds like our “N”.

In English, we have this rule too. (Sort of).

In English the indefinite article “a” gets an “n” added when the next word starts with a vowel. For example:

  • “This is a book.”
  • “This is an owl.”
Greek applies this rule more frequently, and that’s the most common textual variant. Does it matter much if Paul wrote “a owl” vs “an “owl”? Exactly. It simply doesn’t matter to the meaning. In fact, this Textual Variant (movable Nu) is the single most common Textual Variant.

Other examples include when one manuscript has “Jesus Christ”, and another has “Christ Jesus”, with only the order changed. Again, it simply doesn’t matter which is original because there’s no impact on meaning. (You’ll know this is especially true of Greek if you’ve read my A Few Fun Things About Biblical (Koine) Greek article) Another example: perhaps one document will only have “Christ” and another only has “Jesus”. Again, this doesn’t change the meaning much, even if it does change the text slightly.

Again, over 75% of all Textual Variants are not meaningful, even if they are viable. (Viable = possibly original)

So don’t worry, your Bible isn’t filled with mistakes.



Textual Variants that are Meaningful, but not viable.​

These are variants where it’s essentially impossible for them to have been original, even if they would change the meaning of the text. Typically, these variants are found only in a single manuscript, or in a small group of manuscripts from one small part of the world. Most often, they are simple scribal errors.

I have a rather humorous example:

1 Thessalonians 2:7
But we proved to be gentle among you, as a nursing mother tenderly cares for her own children.
There’s a Textual Variant on the word “gentle”. Most manuscripts read “gentle”, some read “little children” and one manuscript reads “horses”. It’s easy to explain these variants when you see how these words are spelled in the Greek, so here are the first three words of the verse in each Textual Variant:

  • Alla Egenēthēmen ēpioi (gentle)
  • Alla Egenēthēmen nēpioi (little children)
  • Alla Egenēthēmen hippioi (horses)
Context tells us that nēpioi (little children) can’t be intended, and since the previous word begins with “n”, it’s easy to see how the mistake was made (doubling the “n”). Often, one scribe would read while several other scribes copied. If you heard it read, you’d realize it’s an easy mistake to make because they sound almost identical. (Because the previous word ends with an “n” sound)

Further, there’s no possible way that hippioi (horses) was intended. It was a simple scribal error, easily noticed and just as easily corrected. (With a good chuckle. ) Both Textual Variants are meaningful, but it’s nearly impossible for them to be original (they aren’t viable).

These types of Textual Variants make up ~24% of all Textual Variants.

Combined with the ones that aren’t meaningful, you have over 99% of all Textual Variants make no impact on meaning whatsoever.

Pretty cool right?



Textual Variants that are Meaningful and Viable​

These Textual Variants have a good chance of being original (viable), and change the meaning of the text (meaningful). They comprise less than 1% of all Textual Variants.

We’ve examined one of these Textual Variants here on Berean Patriot before, namely: The Johannine Comma of 1 John 5:7-8: Added or Removed? Other major Textual Variants include the story of the woman caught in Adultery (Pericope Adulterae for short) and the last 12 verses in Mark’s Gospel. Those three are probably the most well-known, but there are many more.

Next, we’ll look at the three competing theories on how to handle the less-than-1% of places where the text of the New Testament isn’t completely agreed up on.

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St. SteVen

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The Three Competing Theories – Overview​

Here is a short summary of each theory, with more detail to follow in theory’s section.



“Reasoned Eclecticism” or the “Critical Text” Theory

This method applies a series of rules to the various manuscripts we’ve found (we’ll look at those rules in a moment). Using these rules – and a healthy dose of scholarly input – they decide what was likely added, removed, or changed, and therefore what’s likely original. The result is called a “Critical Text”. This is the position held by a majority of New Testament Scholars, and nearly all modern Bible are translated from the Critical Text.



The Majority Text Theory

Majority Text scholars take a more mathematical approach to deciding what the original text of the New Testament was. Their approach is to take all the manuscripts we have, and find which Textual Variant has support among the majority of manuscripts, and given that reading priority. This is based on the assumption that scribes will chose to copy good manuscripts over bad ones, and thus better readings will be in the majority over time. There are good mathematical reasons (which we’ll look at) for this method. Because most of our New Testament manuscripts come from the Byzantine Text family (which we’ll explain lower down), the document that results is often called the “Byzantine Majority text”.



The “Confessional” Position, or “Textus Receptus Only”

This position takes its name from where it starts: a “confession of faith”. The Confessional view holds that God must have preserved the scriptures completely without error. (We’ll look at the verses they use to support this statement lower down.) They believe that God kept one particular text completely free of error, and that text is the Textus Receptus. The Textus Receptus is a 16th century Greek New Testament on which the King James Bible is based (in the New Testament). They will typically only use the King James Bible (KJV) or New King James Bible (NKJV) as an English translation, but some will only accept the KJV.



Now that we have a basic overview, we’ll look at each theory in (exhaustive) detail. Again, this is one of the longest articles on this website, but it’s so long because the topic is complex and our treatment of it fairly complete. Hopefully, this can be a “one stop shop” for anyone wishing for an introduction on New Testament Textual Criticism.

Before we look at each theory though, we need to understand what are called “text types”



New Testament Textual Families or “Text Types”​

Among the existing manuscripts of the New Testament, there are three major divisions based on their content. These divisions aren’t hard and fast, but rather provide a framework to talk about the different Textual Variants.

Each textual family (or “text type”) tends to contain similar readings to other manuscripts in its family, but the readings are different from the readings of other textual families. (Again, in that less than 1% where it matters) Notice they only “tend to”. There are variations within each family, but overall their Textual Variants share a familial linkage with other members of their family.

There are three major textual families/text types.



Alexandrian Text Type

The Alexandrian text type will need little introduction because nearly all modern Bibles are based on the Alexandrian text type. If you pick up any popular Bible (except the KJV and NKJV) it’s almost certainly translated primarily from the Alexandrian text type. Almost all of the oldest manuscripts we have are of the Alexandrian text type, probably due to the climate in the location where they are typically found (Alexandrian is in Egypt, and their dry climate is ideal for preservation.) The Alexandrian text type is slightly shorter than the Byzantine text type.



Western Text Type

The Western text type is different from the other textual families mostly because of its “love of paraphrase”. One scholar said of the Western text type: “Words and even clauses are changed, omitted, and inserted with surprising freedom, wherever it seemed that the meaning could be brought out with greater force and definiteness.” Unsurprisingly, they aren’t given too much weight because of this freeness. Further, we have relatively few Western text type manuscripts.



Byzantine Text Type

We have more manuscripts of the Byzantine text type by far than the other two families combined. Robinson-Pierpont said in their introduction to their Greek New Testament “Of the over 5000 total continuous-text and lectionary manuscripts, 90% or more contain a basically Byzantine Text form“. However, the majority of these manuscripts are later than Alexandrian manuscripts. The Byzantine text type does have some very early witnesses, (in papyri from the 200s and 300s) but these often contain Byzantine readings mixed in with the other text types. The Byzantine text type is noticeably longer than the Alexandrian text type.

(Note: the Byzantine Text type has several names, including the Traditional Text, Ecclesiastical Text, Constantinopolitan Text, Antiocheian Text, and Syrian Text.)



Now that you understand the three text types/families, we’ll move onto discussing the most popular of the three theories.

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St. SteVen

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Here's an interesting comparison of positions on biblical inerrancy.


Interesting to note that the Evangelical definition of biblical inerrancy was not established
until the late 1970s in the Chicago Statement of Biblical Inerrancy.

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Jack

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The Bible foretold the Mark of the Beast, cashless society, LGBT rampage, World Government, and not least, the return of Israel. It's the written Word of God!
 

St. SteVen

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Jack

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Jack

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Nothing in your post is true.
I can't say it any better than God did! VILE, SHAMEFUL, DEBASED, EVIL ...

Romans 1:26-29

26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.
27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers,
 
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St. SteVen

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I can't say it any better than God did! VILE, SHAMEFUL, DEBASED, EVIL ...

Romans 1:26-29

26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.
27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers,
The Apostle Paul wrote the book of Romans. In case you didn't know.

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Jack

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The Apostle Paul wrote the book of Romans. In case you didn't know.
And he wrote more Books in the Christian Bible than anyone else. So you reject all of the Christian Bible because it was written by men?

So I stick with my comment:

"I've noticed that LGBT's HATE the Christian Bible."


1 Thessalonians 2:13

13 For this reason we also thank God without ceasing, because when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you welcomed it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which also effectively works in you who believe.
 
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St. SteVen

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1 Thessalonians 2:13
13 For this reason we also thank God without ceasing, because when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you welcomed it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which also effectively works in you who believe.
This is not a reference to the Bible.
The biblical canon was not assembled until the fourth century.
The King James Bible was not printed until 1611.
When was 1 Thessalonians written? (52 AD)

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Jack

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This is not a reference to the Bible.
The biblical canon was not assembled until the fourth century.
The King James Bible was not printed until 1611.
When was 1 Thessalonians written? (52 AD)

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"And he wrote more Books in the Christian Bible than anyone else."

2 Peter 3:15
15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation--as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you,

Acts 13:9
9 Then Saul, who also is called Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, looked intently at him

Acts 15:25-26
25 it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.


Acts 18:9-10

9 Now the Lord spoke to Paul in the night by a vision, "Do not be afraid, but speak, and do not keep silent;
10 for I am with you,

Acts 19:11

11 Now God worked unusual miracles by the hands of Paul,

Acts 23:11
11 But the following night the Lord stood by him and said, "Be of good cheer, Paul; for as you have testified for Me in Jerusalem, so you must also bear witness at Rome."

So, what are YOUR credentials?
 
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Jay Ross

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Your initial claim was that God wrote the Bible.
This statement about Paul isn't helping your case.

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Your response is out of the silence of what Jack wrote. and is a put down on your part.

After reading your posts I can only assume that your theology is based on your ideas and not God's words given through the writers of the scriptures.
 
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