Why its important to keep the Sabbath

[1stCenturyLady]

Acts 10 says Peter "doubted within himself" the meaning of the vision, which means what seems so "obvious" to modern day swine eaters wasn't so obvious to Peter - he knew it couldn't have meant God's people were now allowed to eat what was partly responsible for making the Gentiles untouchable.

Later, he plainly says "God hath shown me not to call any MAN common or unclean" - not swine and crayfish.

And yet Peter ate with the Gentiles until his Jewish friends arrived. Why? Could it have been the Gentiles diet?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

So, I'm not sure if you accept of deny Isaiah 66:15-17 KJV is a description of the Second Coming.

If you deny what appears to me as an undeniable description of the Second Coming, you must have an extremely compelling alternative event to which Isaiah here refers - can you comment or direct me to one of your previous posts?

One thing about the Great Tribulation is it is the time for all Jews to be unblinded to accept their Messiah. No new Gentiles will be saved from hereon out. Therefore, I can see why unclean meat would still be an abomination to Jews. But still not to Gentiles.

 

[Grailhunter]

I'm pretty sure Isaiah said this particular "coming" including something about "fire" and "chariots" and "judgment" and "fury" and "slain of the Lord"...didn't see that in any of the Gospels.

 

[Grailhunter]

So, I'm not sure if you accept of deny Isaiah 66:15-17 KJV is a description of the Second Coming.

If you deny what appears to me as an undeniable description of the Second Coming, you must have an extremely compelling alternative event to which Isaiah here refers - can you comment or direct me to one of your previous posts?

This is an Old Testament scripture. The Jews saw it as referring to the great and terrible day of the Lord. There is no second coming prophecy of the Messiah in the Old Testament.

In the 1st century John the Baptist was talking about the axe is already laid at the root of the trees; therefore, every tree that does not bear good fruit is being cut down and thrown into the fire.

So the 1st century Jews and Christians were both looking for something like this to happen soon. The Jews saw it occurring with the arrival of the Messiah….The Christians believed Yeshua was the Messiah but it still did not happen, so the Christians pushed it off to the second coming of the Messiah. Which still they thought would happen soon…..if soon can mean thousands of years it can mean millions of years.

These prophecies are not specific in meaning, time, or the name of the person. So that pretty much means the sky is the limit on interpretations….And I do mean plural. What the OT Jews thought this scripture meant and what Jews and Christians thought it meant in the 1st century and what Christians think it means today….

I don’t debate the interpretations of these sort of scriptures, that is why I said I was ok with your interpretation.

Now as far as me….I believe Yeshua will return when He chooses, as far as when and how and what will happen….He will choose that too.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

This is an Old Testament scripture. The Jews saw it as referring to the great and terrible day of the Lord. There is no second coming prophecy of the Messiah in the Old Testament.

It sure doesn't look like His first coming.

Isaiah 66:
And His indignation to His enemies.
15 For behold, the Lord will come with fire
And with His chariots, like a whirlwind,
To render His anger with fury,
And His rebuke with flames of fire.
16 For by fire and by His sword
The Lord will judge all flesh;
And the slain of the Lord shall be many.

cc: @Phoneman777

 

[quietthinker]

It sure doesn't look like His first coming.

Isaiah 66:
And His indignation to His enemies.
15 For behold, the Lord will come with fire
And with His chariots, like a whirlwind,
To render His anger with fury,
And His rebuke with flames of fire.
16 For by fire and by His sword
The Lord will judge all flesh;
And the slain of the Lord shall be many.

cc: @Phoneman777

Of course, those opposed to God and his character will find/ see him as an unmitigated threat and they will interpret his coming, 1st or second as something to be feared. (The question is, is he an actual threat or is it all in what they imagine)

Have you ever wondered why Jesus didn't show himself to his crucifiers after the resurrection like he did to his disciples?
My guess it was in kindness because frankly, they would have sh.t themselves and probably dropped dead like Ananias and Saphira when self revelation could no longer be concealed.

Why might you think those calling for the rocks and the mountains to fall on them when Jesus appears (Rev. 6:16) do so if it wasn't unbearable self revelation?......just like Judas

 

[Grailhunter]

Of course, those opposed to God and his character will find/ see him as an unmitigated threat and they will interpret his coming, 1st or second as something to be feared. (The question is, is he an actual threat or is it all in what they imagine)

Have you ever wondered why Jesus didn't show himself the his crucifiers after the resurrection like he did to his disciples?
My guess it was in kindness because frankly, they would have sh.t themselves and probably dropped dead like Ananias and Saphira when self revelation could no longer be concealed.

Why might you think those calling for the rocks and the mountains to fall on them when Jesus appears (Rev. 6:16) do so if it wasn't unbearable self revelation?......just like Judas

I think that is why they called it the the great and terrible day of the Lord......If you are right with the Lord it is great and if not it is terrible.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Of course, those opposed to God and his character will find/ see him as an unmitigated threat and they will interpret his coming, 1st or second as something to be feared. (The question is, is he an actual threat or is it all in what they imagine)

Have you ever wondered why Jesus didn't show himself to his crucifiers after the resurrection like he did to his disciples?
My guess it was in kindness because frankly, they would have sh.t themselves and probably dropped dead like Ananias and Saphira when self revelation could no longer be concealed.

Why might you think those calling for the rocks and the mountains to fall on them when Jesus appears (Rev. 6:16) do so if it wasn't unbearable self revelation?......just like Judas

After the GT comes the wrath of God. The GT is NOT the wrath of God.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Have you ever wondered why Jesus didn't show himself the his crucifiers after the resurrection like he did to his disciples?

He had nothing to prove to unbelievers because his resurrection was only important to believers.

When he asked his Father to “forgive them for they know not what they do”….he was talking about the Roman soldiers who were just carrying out the orders of their commanders….He was not asking God to forgive the Pharisees and those they had convinced of Jesus being a fake Messiah…..those who had orchestrated his murder and those cursing themselves with his blood. (Matt 27:25) There would be no forgiveness for them unless they repented.

My guess it was in kindness because frankly, they would have sh.t themselves and probably dropped dead like Ananias and Saphira when self revelation could no longer be concealed.

Guesses are not facts….I believe that your guess is way off…..

Why might you think those calling for the rocks and the mountains to fall on them when Jesus appears (Rev. 6:16) do so if it wasn't unbearable self revelation?......just like Judas

Yes, in the end, when Christ’s manifestation as judge finally hits them…there is nowhere to run and hide. Those who take refuge in the mountains will prefer the mountain to fall on them rather than to face God’s anger….

 

[Sheila3]

Where is that written? There is only one 7th day in a week….look on the calendar…it’s what corresponds to our Saturday.
There is no command to observe a Sabbath at all for Gentile Christians as the law was only given to Israel.
Jesus was Jewish and under law so he observed the Sabbath until the time came for him to sacrifice his life. With his death, a new covenant was established with the law now fulfilled in him and nailed to his torture stake with him as finished.

Col 2:13-17…ESV…
“And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him. Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.”

For Gentiles even their uncircumcised state was no longer a problem, because faith in Christ as Messiah covered their sins as well, giving them the hope of everlasting life.
No Jewish festival or observance was mandated for Gentiles.….as Paul clearly stated.

The original Phrygian population of Colossae were Greek and Jewish elements. The early Phrygians displayed a strong tendency toward spiritistic fanaticism, the Greeks indulged in much speculation and in philosophical arguments, and the Jews were advocates of the Mosaic Law and its dietary and sabbath requirements. All these attitudes were dealt with in Paul’s counsel to the Colossian congregation.

There is no sabbath mandated for Christians, so moving the “sabbath” to another day did not change God’s law…..the Roman Catholic church was formed as a fusion between Roman sun worship and weakened Christianity, so anything made into a “doctrine” by them was hardly spiritually clean. The Romans already dedicated Sunday as the day they honored their sun god. They deceptively snuck it in on the people to secure the place of Roman Catholicism as the “State religion” of the Empire……a religion that seemed to satisfy both elements of the Roman Empire….so called “Christians” as well as the pagans, merging them into one happy deluded family….so that no one had to give up what they loved…..the trouble was, God didn’t love any of it.

I said you didn't mention the true Sabbath referring that you didn't mention the seventh day is the true Sabbath.

I also said the Sabbath was the seventh day.

You say the Sabbath wasn't mandated for Christians, that's what you think so be it. Now I truly understand why the Lord COMMANDED TO Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy.

Nope the church didn't mandate the 7th Day Sabbath. The church accepted Constantine's law to make Sunday the day of worship combining the Roman's celebrations worshiping their gods with the resurrection of Christ.
Sunday | Rest, Worship, Reflection

Sabbath | History, Meaning & Observance

Sabbath, (from shavat, “cease,” or “desist”), day of holiness and rest observed by Jews from sunset on Friday to nightfall of the following day. The time division follows the biblical story of creation: “And there was evening and there was morning, one day” (Genesis 1:5). The sacredness of the

www.britannica.com

The odd thing is Christians are supposed to be followers of Christ. For the most part Jesus kept the Sabbath even said he was Lord of the Sabbath - Luke 4:16.
Bible Gateway passage: Luke 4:16 - King James Version. Christian's definitely are not following his example of the Sabbath but following that of Rome considering the Sabbath.

 

[Sheila3]

It shows the day God made for man as the Sabbath at Creation, if you know this from reading the Bible would you then reject what God says and follow man, have to think about that.

I don't reject What God says and follow man.

We should worship him every day of the week and there is nothing wrong with fellowshipping on the first day of the week but one should remember the Sabbath and keep it holy - the seventh day as God commanded.

One does not have to be around a crowd of people in a church, listening to a minister, or gospel songs, one can keep the Sabbath holy in their own home which would be between them and the Lord God and I seriously doubt if that even enters the mind of most Christians.

 

[Phoneman777]

One thing about the Great Tribulation is it is the time for all Jews to be unblinded to accept their Messiah. No new Gentiles will be saved from hereon out. Therefore, I can see why unclean meat would still be an abomination to Jews. But still not to Gentiles.

I've heard there will be a "7 years of great tribulation for the Jews" after the Lord Jesus comes "as a thief in the night" to "rapture the saints".

How can that be when 2 Peter 3:10-12 KJV says when He comes as a thief in the night, the world won't be able to sustain life for 7 more seconds, let alone 7 more years of tribulation?

 

[Phoneman777]

And yet Peter ate with the Gentiles until his Jewish friends arrived. Why? Could it have been the Gentiles diet?

We can't assume everything the Gentiles ate was unclean. I'm sure they ate beef and lamb and goat and chicken and a host of other things that were "sanctified by the Word of God" as fit fare in Leviticus 11.

 

[quietthinker]

1....He had nothing to prove to unbelievers because his resurrection was only important to believers.

2....When he asked his Father to “forgive them for they know not what they do”….he was talking about the Roman soldiers who were just carrying out the orders of their commanders….He was not asking God to forgive the Pharisees and those they had convinced of Jesus being a fake Messiah…..those who had orchestrated his murder and those cursing themselves with his blood. (Matt 27:25) There would be no forgiveness for them unless they repented.

3....Guesses are not facts….I believe that your guess is way off…..

4....Yes, in the end, when Christ’s manifestation as judge finally hits the…there is nowhere to run and hide. Those who take refuge in the mountains will prefer the mountain to fall on them rather than to face God’s anger….

No.1 ....you weren't born when Jesus was resurrected.....does that qualify you as an 'unbeliever' ?

You speak of guesses in No.3......What about your guesses in your statement No.2? do they qualify as 'way off' also or is there a 'special exemption'?

No.4 ....Is Jesus manifest as a judge when he returns? Isn't that also a guess?

 

[Phoneman777]

This is an Old Testament scripture. The Jews saw it as referring to the great and terrible day of the Lord. There is no second coming prophecy of the Messiah in the Old Testament.

In the 1st century John the Baptist was talking about the axe is already laid at the root of the trees; therefore, every tree that does not bear good fruit is being cut down and thrown into the fire.

So the 1st century Jews and Christians were both looking for something like this to happen soon. The Jews saw it occurring with the arrival of the Messiah….The Christians believed Yeshua was the Messiah but it still did not happen, so the Christians pushed it off to the second coming of the Messiah. Which still they thought would happen soon…..if soon can mean thousands of years it can mean millions of years.

These prophecies are not specific in meaning, time, or the name of the person. So that pretty much means the sky is the limit on interpretations….And I do mean plural. What the OT Jews thought this scripture meant and what Jews and Christians thought it meant in the 1st century and what Christians think it means today….

I don’t debate the interpretations of these sort of scriptures, that is why I said I was ok with your interpretation.

Now as far as me….I believe Yeshua will return when He chooses, as far as when and how and what will happen….He will choose that too.

I hear you loud and clear. You're saying there are no OT prophecies of the end time. That's nothing short of gross Scriptural negligence.

Have you never read Jeremiah 4:23-28 KJV?
What about Jeremiah 25:30-33 KJV?
What about Isaiah 24:1-6 KJV?

These OT prophecies speak of nothing else but the end times, as is the case with Isaiah 66.

 

[Aunty Jane]

No.1 ....you weren't born when Jesus was resurrected.....does that qualifies you as an 'unbeliever' ?

What a weird question......I am past trying to figure out how your mind operates....

You speak of guesses in No.3......What about your guesses in your statement No.2? do they qualify as 'way off' also or is there a 'special exemption'?

Since Jesus had already condemned the Pharisees to “Gehenna” (Matt 23:33) it is based on scripture, like everything I believe...what special exemption would you like? Jesus was not forgiving the ones who purposely orchestrated his murder out of their own wickedness. Judas was an accomplice.

No.4 ....Is Jesus manifest as a judge when he returns? Isn't that also a guess?

Are you not expecting Jesus to return as judge of all the earth? Well then, I guess it will be a surprise for you as well then...?

Acts 10:42...
“Also, he ordered us to preach to the people and to give a thorough witness that this is the one decreed by God to be judge of the living and the dead.”

Acts 17:31...
“Because he has set a day on which he purposes to judge the inhabited earth in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed, and he has provided a guarantee to all men by resurrecting him from the dead.”

John 5:22..
“For the Father judges no one at all, but he has entrusted all the judging to the Son,”

Matt 25:31-34, 41, 46....
“When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will put the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right: ‘Come, you who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world. . . . .Then he will say to those on his left: ‘Go away from me, you who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels.. . . .
These will depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life.”

Do you need more?

 

[Grailhunter]

I hear you loud and clear. You're saying there are no OT prophecies of the end time. That's nothing short of gross Scriptural negligence.

Have you never read Jeremiah 4:23-28 KJV?
What about Jeremiah 25:30-33 KJV?
What about Isaiah 24:1-6 KJV?

These OT prophecies speak of nothing else but the end times, as is the case with Isaiah 66.

No that is not what I am saying. I am not saying that there are no OT prophecies of the end time. I said, (copy and pasted here from the post) This is an Old Testament scripture. The Jews saw it as referring to the great and terrible day of the Lord. There is no second coming prophecy of the Messiah in the Old Testament. In other words they did not believe the Messiah would come and be killed and come back later.

Before we called it the Old Testament the Jews called it the Tanakh or Torah, the “Hebrew Bible. They believed in the Messiah and awaited His arrival. Of course they interpreted the prophecies at face value and some of them they did not see as prophecies….We interpret from the perspective of how it turned out and what is thought to happen in future but pretty much ignoring what they said was suppose to happen.

So Christians go back in the Hebrew Bible and comb through it for things that did happen and try to tie them together with things that happened in NT. Hind sight biblical study…For example Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel. This is one of those scriptures that most Christians say points to the Messiah.

Well if you read the whole story chapters 6,7, and 8. You will find it is about God testing a King’s faith. The virgin is Isaiah’s wife and because she had not had a baby yet she could be called a virgin….that is the way they used the word. Depending on the King’s faith the baby would be named either Immanuel or Maher-shalal-hash-baz; This is not about God impregnating a woman that was an actual virgin, as in not known a man…..she was married. Immanuel does not mean Messiah, it means God is with us….the favor of God.

Yeshua’s birth was not a test of faith. There is nothing in the scriptures that would lead the Jews to believe that the Messiah would be the Son of God, a God. The Jews were looking for a human warlord King to be the Messiah.

There is nothing in the scriptures about God impregnating a woman that was already betrothed to a man….by their beliefs that was adultery. In their beliefs for a person to claim to be the Son of God was a horrible sin and sacrilege against God, execution was required. As the High Priest said in the Sanhedrin. These are some of the reasons that the Jews rejected Yeshua as the Messiah and even accused Him of demonology. But Yeshua was the Son of God and the Messiah and the Savior of the World.

Did the Jews completely misunderstand all of the prophecies? Probably not.

Now my beliefs about prophecies….I believe in the living Word of God… meaning the scriptures can mean different things to different people at different times. That is a very significant statement.

In college we studied prophecies extensively and for all of them I have heard a few good interpretations and some pretty good interpretations and some bad ones. The reason there are so many interpretations is because they are ambiguous by nature. Exact circumstances, dates, and names not given. Do I believe they are true….For sure and certain…but it is what it is….they have different meanings to different people at different times. Proved by the fact that Jews and Christians read them differently. And even Christians differ in their interpretation of them.

That is why I told you that I do not debate them….I am fine with what you believe.

But there is a very serious lesson to be learned here. The Jew had an understanding of these prophecies and they did not see what happened as a fulfillment of the prophecies…. So they rejected Christ and were lost.

So now Christian have beliefs regarding these prophecies….So what is going to happen if things turn out differently than what they believe? Is Yeshua going to be rejected again?

My own opinion is that Yeshua will return when He wants to and it will happen as He wants. In the meantime I concentrate on being right with God, so I will be ready. So many in history have tried to calculate His return and they have failed miserably.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

We can't assume everything the Gentiles ate was unclean. I'm sure they ate beef and lamb and goat and chicken and a host of other things that were "sanctified by the Word of God" as fit fare in Leviticus 11.

That is still because "everything that moves" is food for us including clean meats. Do you remember the demoniac that Jesus cast out a legion of demons? Where did they go? What kind of animal was in that herd?

 

[Aunty Jane]

That is still because "everything that moves" is food for us including clean meats. Do you remember the demoniac that Jesus cast out a legion of demons? Where did they go? What kind of animal was in that herd?

Isn’t it interesting that the demons asked to be sent into the herd of swine? Also interesting that they identified Jesus as the “Son of the Most High God” and that he had complete control and authority over them.
It was a huge herd and probably a great part of the owner’s assets. He was not a Jew because Jews would not herd swine, but the Gentiles did.
Mark’s account give a little more detail than Matthew’s....

Mark 5:2-13....
“And immediately after Jesus got out of the boat, a man under the power of an unclean spirit met him from among the tombs. 3 His haunt was among the tombs, and up to that time, absolutely no one was able to bind him securely, even with a chain. 4 He had often been bound with fetters and chains, but he snapped the chains apart and smashed the fetters; and nobody had the strength to subdue him. 5 And continually, night and day, he was crying out in the tombs and in the mountains and slashing himself with stones. 6 But on catching sight of Jesus from a distance, he ran and bowed down to him. 7 Then he cried out with a loud voice: “What have I to do with you, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I put you under oath by God not to torment me.” 8 For Jesus had been saying to it: “Come out of the man, you unclean spirit.” 9 But Jesus asked him: “What is your name?” And he replied: “My name is Legion, because there are many of us.” 10 And he kept pleading with Jesus not to send the spirits out of the country. Now a great herd of swine was feeding there at the mountain. 12 So the spirits pleaded with him: “Send us into the swine, so that we may enter into them.” 13 And he gave them permission. With that the unclean spirits came out and went into the swine, and the herd rushed over the precipice into the sea, about 2,000 of them, and were drowned in the sea.”

Can we imagine 2,000 pigs rushing towards the edge of the cliff to plunge to their deaths in the sea?! What a thing to witness!
Can we imagine how quickly the news spread about this event by the eye witnesses?!...and what a huge loss was sustained by the Gentile owner of the herd? 2,000 dead pigs floating in the water! I wonder what they did with them, and what the reaction of the owner was?

Can we then imagine what message this sent to those Gentiles about the power demonstrated by this man Jesus? When the time came for Gentiles to be invited into the Christian congregations, they would have remembered this incredible event.

 

[Phoneman777]

There is no second coming prophecy of the Messiah in the Old Testament.

The are plenty of OT prophecies of the Second Coming.

Psalms 94, for instance, begins with "O Lord, SHINE FORTH" - a clear reference to the glorious return of Christ which precedes a description of the end times.

Psalms 92 - what else can be said? A blind man can see this speaks of events which describes events leading up to and including the Second Coming.

IF ISAIAH 66:15-17 KJV AIN'T TALKING ABOUT THE FIERY SECOND COMING OF CHRIST, THEN TO WHAT FIERY COMING OF THE LORD IS IT REFERRING? YOU STILL HAVE YET TO TELL US!