WWJD with LGBTQ?

[Aunty Jane]

Yes, I am.


Yes, it does.

The mindset that our thoughts don't matter is preposterous to me.

Again you run away with what you “think” I said….
”I think” does not enter into Bible interpretation since there is only one truth. We either have it or we don’t, and God will not chase after us pleading that we have misunderstood his word….tell me when Christ ever did that…he offered his truth to all, and allowed the individuals to process what he said. It either sounded right to them and they responded accordingly….or it didn’t, and they did not respond at all. So our own interpretation of scripture is meaningless except to ourselves.

If we are one of his own, God will “draw” us to his truth, as it says in John 6:44 (even against our will initially)…if we are not one of his own, but favor our own ideas over what the entirety of Scripture teaches, then he will leave us to the delusions we want to entertain (2 Thess 2:9-12)…..he will not correct us until it is revealed at the judgment who were correct in their evaluation of what is truth, (Matt 7:21-23)….that way all are judged for who they really are at heart. What we “think” will then be shown for what it is.

God loves us; we are his kids. He cares what his kids think.

We understand this because we have kids, and we care what they think.
Why do we do that? Where did we learn to care about what our kids think?

The question is “who are his kids”? He recognizes his children because they live in his house.…..but those like the prodigal son who choose to leave home and live their own Iife apart from their Father’s standards, he will leave to their own devices without correction because they have to come home of their own volition.

Those who don’t come home, or who refuse to be corrected, he has no future planned for them…..they will pay for their sins with their own life…..otherwise all those biblical examples of God’s severe punishments to his chosen nation, mean nothing. If God does not change, then neither do his standards. He is a rewarded of those who obey him….but if you think he will not punish unrepentant wrongdoers for their complete disregard for his standards, then the delusion is entirely yours. There is this “lake of fire”…..that is the destination for all who want to do things their way. It is eternal death….like we never existed.…justly taken out of existence because they abused the free will given to us, like the first rebels did. Did we learn nothing from them?

Again... the mindset that our thoughts don't matter is preposterous to me.

Just to be clear... MY THOUGHTS MATTER !!!!! - LOL

Since that is not at all what I meant, I agree with you….our thoughts do indeed matter since all actions are precipitated by our thoughts…..so if our thinking is skewed, then our actions and attitudes will reflect that.

Its our mindset that actually determines our future…

 

[JohnDB]

What is the price of your soul?

What price can you pay to save it if it's sick?

There's only one Doctor and One cure....

It doesn't matter if you like the situation or not. It's just the way things are.

I don't like the world I live in now...but it's the world I live in and have to navigate through. My liking or hating is not relevant to the situation. I have to live.

I hate locking and unlocking my truck all the time. But if I want to use it again after coming out of the store I must. Thems the rules....consequences are not multiple choice here. If I want to keep my truck I have to lock the doors and take the keys with me.
I can scream it's unfair and not right and how I'm justified in not locking my doors and taking the keys with me....but it will not matter one bit....my truck will disappear.

It doesn't matter if I like this world I live in....but life is better than death.

 

[Aunty Jane]

So, are all the answers in the Bible?
There is NOTHING outside of the Bible that will answer our questions?

Since the Bible provides all the answers that come from God, why would we need to go outside of it for our answers? Who would they come from that we can trust? There is a deceiver out there wiling us to look outside…..we dare not. God has never left his people without teachers….God will lead us to them…or he will not. (John 6:44: 65)

A good concordance, an Interlinear and various translations of the Bible add to my knowledge and enhance it, but to depart from the Bible itself for answers? No way I would trust it to be the truth.

Or should I ask...
NOTHING outside of the church's interpretation of the Bible that will answer our questions?

According to scripture, God has always had just one group of people who served his interests on earth in any given era. In ancient times, it was the Patrarchs, then it was the nation of Israel, then it was the Christians….and in our day, especially at this “time of the end”, it is a specific group that Jesus called “wheat” who are growing in a field of “weeds”. He appointed a “faithful and discreet slave” who represent the wheat, to whom he gave the commission to “feed” his entire household of fellow slaves “their food at the proper time”…..(Matt 24:45) Who is this “slave”? We have to find him and feed at his table because there is only one truth and his table is not a buffet.

Christendom is the “weeds”…so choose your variety (denomination) and they will still be weeds, if they teach what the RCC has promoted as truth for centuries. The “mother“ church has many daughters who all uphold the basic teachings of this disgusting entity.
All false religion is the product of the devil, so we are told in Rev 18:4-5 to remove ourselves from all forms of false worship or we will go down with them. There is a reason why false worship is portrayed as a harlot.

That saw cuts both ways.
Are you claiming that you don't cherry-pick?

I have already done my homework to ascertain that what I believe is backed up by what the entirety of Scripture teaches. The verses I use are backed up by other verses.
Cherry pickers have no backup because their cherries are not ripe, and taste sour.

Yes. Loyalty to the institutional church and its doctrines?

I have no beliefs in common with the “institutional church” system or it’s doctrines…..I came out of that rabble over 50 years ago after carefully examining all aspects of where my former beliefs came from…
It was not an instantaneous process, but one that involved a good two years of study. I am confident that all the answers I gleaned from God’s word are solidly based, and therefore an integral part of the big picture….most who identify as Christians, have no big picture at all. They have a bunch of parts of the jigsaw puzzle, but don’t know how to make one big picture out of it all.

I didn’t even know what the Lord’s Prayer meant until I researched it. I had no idea what I was praying for.…now I do.

 

[Ziggy]

God already created the plan. The end was already decided before the material world ever existed.
He knows each of us, what we've done and what we've yet to do.
I would think he would have a continegency plan for each of us.
But ours is not to judge others, but rather judge ourselves by God's standards.

And Compassion seems to be on the lacking list these days. Empathy, being respectful, truthfulness is going the way of commonsense.
All we have is what Jesus gave us, an example to live and walk by. Showing his ways through each of us.
Jesus wasn't shy about criticising people who believed a certain way, specially to those who knew better.
But we didn't see too much interactions with people and Jesus who never knew God and his ways.
We have Paul as an example who went out into the world and not just to a particular nation.
Other Gentile nations would just do according to their own traditions and ways. And if the two paths crossed at times, all the better.
Maybe homosexuality wasn't a thing in some nations. Only ones who had God's law was Moses and the nation of Israel.

What's lacking is the knowledge of God and his ways. Society in general is getting farther away, and what we see is the "forgetting" .
How is it that only 8 people survived Noah's days?
They were the 8 that knew God. The rest of the world had gone off course.

Abraham bartered with God for 10 righteous souls in Sodom, and yet only 1 survived (and family) , because only 1 knew God.
So today we see this "falling away" happening between God and humanity.
And what people are doing is just whatever laws they choose to write for themselves. To them it's not wrong it just is.

So all we can do is judge ourselves according to our knowledge of God. And whomever God wants to know Him, he will make himself known. And how will they know Him? Through us. But "us" is getting smaller in numbers by the day.

To him that knows to do good and does it not, it is sin. But what if they don't know what good is?
Then is it not them that are under grace at this time?
Father forgive them for they know not what they do?
I would think grace is for the ignorant and judgment for the knowing.
And it's not our job to judge those outside the body right?
All we can do is not behave the way we know is not right and hope others catch on and ask, hey, how come your not doing it our way?
Which leads to witnessing and being a good witness to walking on the right path according to the plan.

I believe what's more important is for each individiual that know's God and his ways, needs to concentrate on their own path and not be led away and become forgetful with the world.

When world's collide.
I think that's what where experiencing now. A division between those that know and those who do not.
The desire to be good, according to God ways and not our own, is something that isn't taught in society today.
In fact, we have things being taught that are contrary to what we believe. I believe they are deliberately being led away through the anti-christ agenda. Convince people there is no God and do as thou wilt. But they don't know their being led astray because it's all they've ever known. It's a new generation. And we are the "conspiracy theorists" .

And there was silence in heaven for the space of half an hour. Maybe that's the day people stop praying.

Where is compassion?

Hugs

 

[Ziggy]

It’s defined by what is considered “normal human behavior”....so if it’s outside of that “norm” it is then judged in degrees of abnormality. Symptoms define the classification of mental illness because some symptoms are obviously indicative of certain common illnesses.

I believe that is the objective....it’s not just a few here and there....but since CV nineteen, unexplained illness and memory issues have exploded world wide......even young people have memory issues and brain fog. Do you think they want us to have less mental and physical capacity so as to be easier to control?
Wouldn’t surprise me really.....

That’s the scary part....

The scary part is it's fact.
It's almost a suicidal path the world is on.
What will these rich and scientific people gain when they have destroyed it all?
Exactly what kind of "kingdom" will they have when no one is left standing? To rule alone over nothing?
Is AI already controlling the world heading us on a self destruct path?
Lots of things just don't make sense anymore. Everything is being twisted or inverted, warped.

It's a strange transition we're going through that's for sure.
Reminds me of the movie Shawshank Redemption when the old man gets out of prison after decades and the world has changed before his eyes. It becomes so overwhelming that he takes his own life.
But when your in it, the changes are like frogs in boiling water. Slow and steady increments of change until your caught in it.
We have babies being taught sexuality. That generation isn't going to know God, except a select few. And that's only one generatioin away or perhaps even now.

You see through the programming, whatever form, media, entertainment, sports, all of it is headed in the self destruct course.
And as it was in the days of Noah... here we are heading down that same course.

My grandson is autistic. He believes in reincarnation and that when you die you are born again into this life as another person.
No one taught him this, my daughter is on the fence whether God is real or something man made to control other people. Fear.
He's had this belief for a long time now. He's only 20. With a mind of a 7 year old. So when his other grandmother passed away a week ago. I called my daughter to give my condolences that she lost her mother-in-law. And my grandson got on the phone and told me nana is being born into someone new. I agreed with him. Because I don't know if we come back here again. I don't think I would be me, no conscience of who I was. And maybe we keep going round this cycle until we get it right.

Or until we forget.
Faith. That one little morsel has a lot of power in it. It can turn your life 180 degrees in a moment in time.
And it is a gift. And God is the giver of gifts. And maybe not all get the gift. Maybe some are sent to be the iron that sharpens iron by being contrary.
How do we know good if there is nothing to measure it by?
And what is our reaction? Isn't it our own reactions that will be judged?
Not what other people do, they will face the judge for themselves, as we will for how we behaved.

Lot lived in a city surrounded by wickedness. The moment he spoke against them, they wanted to censor him.
Neither Pharoah nor the Hebrews wanted to take orders from Moses. Who made you a judge over us? Or who are you to release them from ther burdens?
They didn't know God.
But God saved a nation. And some made it and some didn't.


It's not the ones that know God that didn't make it, but the ones who didn't.

And this is life eternal.. to KNOW thee.

I KNOW my sheep and they hear my voice.
It's in the knowing. And this world is on a one way destination to forgetfulness, dementia, senility.
God knows this though. He knows who Knows and who doesn't.
And maybe in the next beginning those who didn't make it the first or tenth or millioneth time around, gets to do it again until they do know. But those who know and willingly and knowingly lead others astray... They have the hardest judgment when they face their maker.
And I think there's a lot of those these days.
It's everywhere.

Hugs

 

[quietthinker]

Again you run away with what you “think” I said….
”I think” does not enter into Bible interpretation since there is only one truth. We either have it or we don’t, and God will not chase after us pleading that we have misunderstood his word….tell me when Christ ever did that…he offered his truth to all, and allowed the individuals to process what he said. It either sounded right to them and they responded accordingly….or it didn’t, and they did not respond at all. So our own interpretation of scripture is meaningless except to ourselves.

If we are one of his own, God will “draw” us to his truth, as it says in John 6:44 (even against our will initially)…if we are not one of his own, but favor our own ideas over what the entirety of Scripture teaches, then he will leave us to the delusions we want to entertain (2 Thess 2:9-12)…..he will not correct us until it is revealed at the judgment who were correct in their evaluation of what is truth, (Matt 7:21-23)….that way all are judged for who they really are at heart. What we “think” will then be shown for what it is.

The question is “who are his kids”? He recognizes his children because they live in his house.…..but those like the prodigal son who choose to leave home and live their own Iife apart from their Father’s standards, he will leave to their own devices without correction because they have to come home of their own volition.

Those who don’t come home, or who refuse to be corrected, he has no future planned for them…..they will pay for their sins with their own life…..otherwise all those biblical examples of God’s severe punishments to his chosen nation, mean nothing. If God does not change, then neither do his standards. He is a rewarded of those who obey him….but if you think he will not punish unrepentant wrongdoers for their complete disregard for his standards, then the delusion is entirely yours. There is this “lake of fire”…..that is the destination for all who want to do things their way. It is eternal death….like we never existed.…justly taken out of existence because they abused the free will given to us, like the first rebels did. Did we learn nothing from them?

Since that is not at all what I meant, I agree with you….our thoughts do indeed matter since all actions are precipitated by our thoughts…..so if our thinking is skewed, then our actions and attitudes will reflect that.

Its our mindset that actually determines our future…

Everything requires decoding, even language. I make sounds with my mouth or throat and you decode the sound and hopefully their meaning. If you misinterpret the meaning, you effectively haven’t heard. The scriptures are no different. The retort of ‘it’s in the Bible’ is a poultry and shortsighted answer and only serves to hide your particular paradigm from scrutiny by yourself.

 

[TheHC]

So, are all the answers in the Bible?
There is NOTHING outside of the Bible that will answer our questions?

Yes, all of the important ones

Or should I ask...
NOTHING outside of the church's interpretation of the Bible that will answer our questions?

Let’s put it this way: only truth answers our questions correctly.

Unfortunately, truth has very narrow parameters! For example, 2+2 = 4 and nothing else. 5, is wrong. Anything else, is wrong.

So we have over 30,000 denominations of Christianity, each teaching something different in some aspect.
What does that tell you? They can’t all have accuracy. Can they?

Now, does the Bible teach one set of truths? Yes…. It does not contradict. (At least, not the oldest manuscripts of it.)
But it can be misunderstood.

Let’s take a passage, and reason on it compared to other passages.

At 2 Samuel 1:26, the Bible records King David as saying, “I grieve for you, Jonathan my brother; you were very dear to me. Your love for me was wonderful, more wonderful than that of women.”

Some use this one Scripture to say that King David had romantic love for Jonathan.

But they exclude (ignore?) other Scriptures from David’s time, like Leviticus 20:13 & Leviticus 18:22.

David lived according to Jehovah’s Law, and loved it. (Ps.40:8) He had Jehovah’s approval.

The Scriptures don’t contradict. But those who want to support certain biases, through their interpretations, make it seem to.

That saw cuts both ways.
Are you claiming that you don't cherry-pick?


Yes. Loyalty to the institutional church and its doctrines?

/

I think I can tell that, in your eyes, loyalty to our Creator, supersedes any misplaced loyalty to a “church” … right? So in your estimation, how would a person go about exhibiting their loyalty to God, over loyalty to any Church?

Jesus gave us the key, found at John 13:35. That’s what people are to look for…. Love is a byproduct - it ‘results’ - from having the truth, as Peter stated at 1Peter 1:22…. “Now that you have purified yourselves by your obedience to the truth with unhypocritical brotherly affection as the result, love one another intensely from the heart.”

Why is that, why does love result? Because when a person or a group live by God’s laws and principles, He blesses them with His spirit (the most powerful force in the universe). And then, Luke 10:21 occurs.

So those that are given the truth, ie., accurate knowledge, will also be striving to* display Christlike love, transcending all barriers… racial, national, etc.
Of course, according to Jesus, love for God comes first. — Matthew 22:37-39.

*= striving to; no one is perfect.


Goodnight, my cousin.

 

[quietthinker]

The Scriptures don’t contradict. But those who want to support certain biases, through their interpretations, make it seem to.

Jesus does not contradict himself but the writers of the Scriptures certainly do. Jesus shines a light where the Prophets never got it together.

 

[Lizbeth]

St. SteVen said:
Did you forsake all that thou hadst?

If it makes you uncomfortable, we can consider it a rhetorical question.
Very few have forsaken all that they have to follow Christ. BUT...
In the scripture YOU quoted (see below), he says, unless you do, you "cannot be my disciple." (ouch)

Where does that leave you?
You even refuse to answer the question. Denying Christ publicly?
And there you are trying get the speck out of my eye.

Matthew 22:33
So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.


Not sure what part(s) of my post you agreeing with, and what part(s) you wish to ...
"not wrest it or twist it or dilute it to our own destruction." ???

I'm guessing you and I both are in the same boat as to have not having forsaken ALL (needs to be defined) to follow Christ.

/

I'm agreeing with God's word. I see forsaking all as being the narrow path the believer is on..........following is obeying the Lord, and He is leading us on a journey of losing and forsaking everything that used to prop up our "old man." A journey of nevertheless not my will but thine be done, Lord. If we lose our "life" in this world we will find it, but if we seek to save our "life" (psuche) we will lose it. Forsaking our "life" in order apprehend the life of Christ in it's place. Our old man is a lie, an illusion. I see it as being a false persona born of the spirit of the world (serpent at the tree) that we took on board in order to cope and survive and selfishly find a place for ourSELF in this world......which left Adam&Eve naked and uncovered because they and we had believed and trusted in a lie. Our true covering is from the Tree of Life, it is the Spirit of Christ through faith, which is not a lie but is the truth.

That's why it's so important to preach/teach and read/hear the indiluted word of God, which doesn't justify sin, but calls it what it is in God's eyes, which we need to come into agreement with, and let it nail us to the wall (cross), because only the truth can set us free when we receive it. The ENTRANCE of the word gives LIFE.

 

[Lizbeth]

No…we are now under the law of the Christ which, in principle, embraces all aspects of the Law of Moses as Jesus said….

”And one of them, versed in the Law, tested him by asking: 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” 37 He said to him: “‘You must love the Lord your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’ 38 This is the greatest and first commandment. 39 The second, like it, is this: ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.” (Matt 22:35-40)

You are trying to find loopholes in God’s law to suit the abberation of homosexuality and gender identification, which are products of our inherited imperfection. God will not change his long held laws and principles to accommodate what he forbids. You need to get that memo.

Since the Bible clearly states that God does not change, why are you requiring him to, and at the same time requiring us to do the same with respect to this question? What part of his law on these things do you not understand? Shaking your fist at God because you don’t think he is fair, will not alter a thing….neither will so called, “gay Christians” who want to dictate their will to God and expect him to capitulate….it’s never going to happen.

You are twisting things a bit here…..Those who did not know God when they divorced and remarried are not convicted because of their ignorance. When God yokes a man and a woman in marriage, it is to be a lasting commitment with the two existing as “one flesh” in his eyes. Most who bother to get married these days were never yoked together by God in the first place, so their current situation stands approved by God because now their union recognized and is blessed by him. No homosexual couple can claim to be yoked together by God….it is entirely their own decision.
If they become genuine Christians, no one will have to compel them to do what God requires…they will see the need to bring their lives into harmony with his will and do what is necessary…it is a sacrifice on their part and will have his blessing….OTOH, if they believe that God turns a blind eye to his own standards of conduct concerning his own creation, then they have no future in the world to come. It’s their choice.

And if they are genuine in their “coming to Christ”, they will have a new commitment….to God and his son. One that should be stronger than any human relationship.
They will voluntarily separate and do the will of God, not just their own selfish will.

At Matt 10:32-38, Jesus states what is required of every Christian…
”Everyone, then, who acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father who is in the heavens. 33 But whoever disowns me before men, I will also disown him before my Father who is in the heavens. 34 Do not think I came to bring peace to the earth; I came to bring, not peace, but a sword. 35 For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36 Indeed, a man’s enemies will be those of his own household. 37 Whoever has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me; and whoever has greater affection for son or daughter than for me is not worthy of me. 38 And whoever does not accept his torture stake and follow after me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds his soul will lose it, and whoever loses his soul for my sake will find it.”

Apply that admonition to a SS couple….our response to Christ’s commands is a test of our loyalty…..we either pass the test…or we don’t.

Now you are again putting human emotions before God’s requirements……tell me how many monogamous couples do this on a regular basis? Marriage ends in divorce more often than it doesn’t. Children today, do not know what a committed relationship looks like.
If the separation is amicable, the children will be way less affected than if it is hostile, which it usually is because very few have the maturity to make their relationships last.

Thinking purely from the flawed human perspective will do that……it elicits the ‘boo hoos‘ and the injustice of it all, as if perfect relationship exist for the majority in today’s world…..Heterosexual couples do not have the same situation as homosexual couples because their union is not forbidden by God….it’s really that simple.
Sacrifices are needed, and if they are not made to please God, no blessings can be expected. It’s a choice….a difficult one, but not impossible as there are quite a few in my own brotherhood who have made that sacrifice and lived the blessings that came from it……they are not miserable or regretful…..they prayerfully sought God’s help and received it…..you seem to leave God out of this altogether as a positive aspect of these decision….you concentrate only on the negative, as satan would want you to. You then spread the negative to influence others to your viewpoint….so do you understand where that then places you?

Are you familiar with the admonition that a well respected Pharisee named Gamaliel, made with regard to Jesus’ apostles when they were trying to force them to stop preaching?…
He told them…
“So under the present circumstances, I say to you, do not meddle with these men, but let them alone. For if this scheme or this work is from men, it will be overthrown; 39 but if it is from God, you will not be able to overthrow them. Otherwise, you may even be found fighters against God himself.”

From their perspective, the Jews were trying to protect Judaism from the apostasy of these Christians….but Gamaliel gave them something to think about….what if they were wrong? Where did they then put themselves from God’s perspective? That they might find themselves “fighters against God himself”…..

Food for thought….

Amen, so well said sister. And we are all being tested in our own ways, nobody is exempt, so nobody needs to feel "picked on". God tests and tries all who belong to Him, like a good Workman testing His workmanship to see what more work might still be required.

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
... Yes. Loyalty to the institutional church and its doctrines?

I think I can tell, in your eyes, that loyalty to our Creator, supersedes any misplaced loyalty to a “church” … right? So in your estimation, how would a person go about exhibiting their loyalty to God, over loyalty to any Church?

That's a great question, thanks.

The institutional church has historically, for the most part, maintained a turn-key religious experience.
As if they have everything figured out, you simply need to put your trust in the church and you will be okay.
Consequently, they have made a career out of having all the answers.

I for one (and I'm not alone) have found this claim to be unfounded, even disingenuous.
So, to answer your question...

I put my personal relationship with God, and what he is showing me ahead of the institutional church.
Since I have come of age, I have never been in a church with whom I agree 100%. And I don't expect it.
In that sense, I suppose I could say my loyalty is to God, not to church.

But perhaps that is not what you were getting at?
It seems that you are saying that the church has the truth I need to abide by.
As if somehow the church has a corner on truth. (all the answers)
Correct me if I am misunderstanding you. Thanks.

/

 

[Lizbeth]

Jesus does not contradict himself but the writers of the Scriptures certainly do. Jesus shines a light where the Prophets never got it together.

Dear oh dear. It's an old old story, going all the way back to the Garden of Eden, this habit of calling God's word into question in order to let our flesh have it's way in this life. But what does it profit to have our way in this world, if we lose our own soul?

2Pe 1:19-21

And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts;
knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,
for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.


2Ti 3:15-17

and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

 

[St. SteVen]

That's why it's so important to preach/teach and read/hear the indiluted word of God, which doesn't justify sin, but calls it what it is in God's eyes, which we need to come into agreement with, and let it nail us to the wall (cross), because only the truth can set us free when we receive it. The ENTRANCE of the word gives LIFE.

Not sure why... but it occurred to me while reading this part of your post...

Same-sex marriage was not allowed among the Israelites when they were wandering in the wilderness.
Before or after, for that matter. "So, what?", you may say.

It means that the homosexuality referred to in Leviticus, and probably elsewhere was promiscuity.
Not in reference to a monogamous relationship. The prohibition is to homosexual promiscuity.

/

 

[Lizbeth]

Not sure why... but it occurred to me while reading this part of your post...

Same-sex marriage was not allowed among the Israelites when they were wandering in the wilderness.
Before or after, for that matter. "So, what?", you may say.

It means that the homosexuality referred to in Leviticus, and probably elsewhere was promiscuity.
Not in reference to a monogamous relationship. The prohibition is to homosexual promiscuity.

/

Only to the lost, the blind and deluded I'm afraid. Who love not the truth but love their "feelings" and lusts more than the truth.

The reason sexual dysfunctions etc (as well as mental illness, violence, and crime, suicide, etc) is increasing is because the TRUTH isn't being preached enough and the gospel and Spirit of God isn't holding sway over society any more. More like the other way around....the world and worldliness has invaded the church and the church has succumbed to a spirit of political correctness. Which results in demons infecting more people with their lies and evil spirits, sadly. The truth and word of God (when it is being raised) is a banner and weapon against the darkness that ever seeks to encroach.

Is the worsening state of things a good thing? Is that what you want for your children and grandchildren or your neighbours children? No? Then preach the TRUTH - the washing and scrubbing of the water of the Word and let it do it's cleansing work. Train the children in the way they SHOULD go, not in the way they want to go because they "feel" that way....the devil lies and seduces and you need to counter it with the truth in love. Don't let the lunatics run the asylum, as the saying goes, but the church needs to take up its authority and rule.

 

[St. SteVen]

Is the worsening state of things a good thing? Is that what you want for your children and grandchildren or your neighbours children? No? Then preach the TRUTH -

What truth is that?
Homophobia and bigotry? Pious snobbery? Politically driven hatred? Conservative social myopia?
Cognitive dissonance? Ingrown churchianity? Spiritual inbreeding?

Who wants that? Not you, I hope.

/

 

[St. SteVen]

Only to the lost, the blind and deluded I'm afraid. Who love not the truth but love their "feelings" and lusts more than the truth.

Questions I posted on another thread. Seem appropriate here too. (omniscient = all knowing)

1) Should an omniscient God be surprised by wickedness? (sin)
2) Did the omniscient God (the Logos) not anticipate wickedness? (sin)
3) If the answer to the previous two question is "No.", would wrath be an appropriate response?
4) How do we characterize an enraged human who creates their own disaster?
They had it coming, right? No one to blame but themselves. ???
5) How is God any different? Does he operate below the standard he holds us to?

/

 

[Lizbeth]

What truth is that?
Homophobia and bigotry? Pious snobbery? Politically driven hatred? Conservative social myopia?
Cognitive dissonance? Ingrown churchianity? Spiritual inbreeding?

Who wants that? Not you, I hope.

/

Yes you do well to ask what the truth is, and you need to because you are deceived.

 

[Ziggy]

would wrath be an appropriate response?

Maybe we are mischaracterizing God's interpretation of what wrath is. We know what man's wrath is, uncontrollable anger and a desire for retribution. But what is God's wrath?
I think we apply a lot of man's characteristics to God. Instead of man becoming christlike, we expect God to be be manlike.
When I consider the flood or the raining of fire in sodom, I consider the natural world. It's going to do what it does. It is in a decomposing system just as the human body is, and there are always changes taking place.
Perhaps IF the people had been willing to listen, they would of heeded the warning and avoided destruction. Like Noah and like Lot.
You have to be willing to listen to God through all his works, even id they fall in the realm of natural science.
The earth is gonna do what it's gonna do. And today we have some warning systems in place for tornadoes, hurricanes, tsunamis, etc.
Jesus said you know when the sky is red and lowring a storm is coming... It's a form of God's communication to man.
Watch the signs, both physical and spiritual. And if one isn't listening or watching they get caught in the storm and then blame God for being angry.

I believe it was James and John, the sons of thunder that wanted to bring fire down on a town for not listening, but Jesus rebuked them and said, ye know not what spirit ye are of. I'm still working on that..
So we blame God for acts of God even though he has given us the ability to listen to the signs and prepare. Whether storm or war, or famine..
there are always signs.

So who is at fault? The one providing the signs or the ones not listening and watching?

I believe if God had man's wrath, then man wouldn't exist anymore.

Jesus got angry and ran the money changers out of the temple. In the OT God would of opened the earth and swallowed them up.
Is it just a matter of perception, and who's perception?

Just thinking..
Hugs

 

[St. SteVen]

Yes you do well to ask what the truth is, and you need to because you are deceived.

That saw cuts both ways.
How do you know that you have it right and I have it wrong?
Are your biblical opinions infallible?

/

 

[quietthinker]

Dear oh dear. It's an old old story, going all the way back to the Garden of Eden, this habit of calling God's word into question in order to let our flesh have it's way in this life. But what does it profit to have our way in this world, if we lose our own soul?

2Pe 1:19-21

And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts;
knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,
for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.


2Ti 3:15-17

and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Lizbeth, do you ever get inspired?