As was stated in our previous post this was a discussion we had on Chapter 11 of Daniel with a member of another forum some time back.
Hence forth we shall refer to this forum member as Sister Ann. Understand it is not our intention here to find fault, but rather to seek for truth, all of us, including myself. Discussions like these are good for us as they furnish ample opportunities for us to return to the textbooks so to speak so that we might replenish our leaky vessels and reaffirm our faith.
Sister Ann states: Dan 10:21 concludes with the words: "No one upholds me against these, except Michael your prince…" This was in the first year of Darius the Mede. Dan 11:1
In Reply, actually it was in the third year of Cyrus king of Persia that the angel Gabriel relayed these messages to Daniel, (Dan 10:1)
Cyrus’s reign followed that of Darius whose reigned only lasted for about two years before control of the kingdom shifted to the Persians, these are the two horns upon the ram mentioned in (Dan 8:4) both were high (great), but the second or higher one (the greater) came up last. This vision shows that there was a time in which the Medes, under Darius, were superior to the Persians, and then later the Persians, under Cyrus, took the ascendancy.
In Dan 11:1 Gabriel speaking confidentially to the Prophet was simply referring back in time to the first year of the reign of Darius the Mede in which he “stood up to confirm and strengthen him (i.e. Darius)” this after he had Daniel released from the lions’ den and greatly honored him. (The Book of Daniel, Page 89)
Sister A states: According to research from the Encyclopedia Britannica in reference to (Xerxes the forth king 486-465), who stood up "gained more riches than all of them---and roused up the empire against the realm of Greece". Dan 11:2
The world kingdoms had now become designated as that of the North and the the South, in relation to their ruler-ship, conquests, and dealing with Gods people. Syria was the dominant power for a time and was north of Palestine, and Egypt was south. Since Daniel's subject is the Promised Land, the nation of Israel (Gods people), it would be proper to address them in this way, since the dominant control would change from time to time.
In Reply, we might want to backtrack here a little so as to establish just how these two kingdoms came about. These kingdoms are the refuge of the once mighty Grecian Empire lead by Alexander the Great, the “mighty king” spoken of in,
Verse 3 “Then a mighty king shall arise, who shall rule with great dominion, and do according to his will.”
Verse 4 “And when he shall stand up, his kingdom shall be broken, and shall be divided toward the four winds of heaven; BUT NOT TO HIS POSTERITY, nor according to his dominion which he ruled: for his kingdom shall be plucked up, even for others beside those.”
“Although Alexander conquered the world in the short period of thirteen years, the kingdom did not continue as one nation in his family after his death, but was divided by his four generals and broken into fragments as alluded to in Verse 4. Notice here the correspondence of this prophecy with that of Dan 8:3-9, 20-25. Here it is shown that out of one of the divisions of Alexander's empire (compare Verses 8, 9 and 21) would come forth a "little horn" or power, which would become exceedingly great. This evidently refers to Rome (more specifically Papacy), which rose to influence upon the ruins of Greece. From being an insignificant subject whose ambassadors hastened to acknowledge the Grecian supremacy, and to become part of the empire at the feet of Alexander the Great, Rome rose gradually to supremacy.” (C27)
“In the Book of Revelation the dragon (Pagan Rome, at first) is purely a civil power. The Pastor gave the simple definition that the four beasts of Revelation represent four ecclesiastical governments, whereas in Daniel the four beasts picture four civil governments, but out of the civil came the little horn that predominated over the beasts of the earth to such an extent that the Book of Revelation ascribes a separate beast to Papacy.” The Book of Daniel, Page 90
“Alexander lived 32 years and 8 months; his reign covered a period of 12 years and 8 months. In the space of about 15 years after his death Alexander’s family and posterity were murdered, leaving none of his posterity to occupy the throne. History records that this was accomplished chiefly by Cassander, one of Alexander’s generals. In the course of a few years the prediction met its complete fulfillment, and the great empire over which he ruled was divided into four parts. Cassander reigned in Greece, Lysimachus in Thrace, Ptolemy in Egypt, and Seleucus in Syria.
For a considerable space the kingdoms of Egypt and Syria are alone mentioned in the prophecy of the angel. History shows that these two kingdoms were by far the greatest; and that at one time they obtained the mastery of the territory of the other two (viz. Greece and Thrace)…The two, Syria and Egypt, continued to exist as distinct kingdoms even after the territories of the others were swallowed up by the Romans.” (Daniel the Beloved, Page 179)
“Because Judea lying between them was sometimes in the possession of the kings in Egypt, and sometimes of the kings of Syria; and it is the purpose of Holy Scripture to interweave only so much of foreign affairs, as hath some relation to the Jews; thus it is in respect of their situation (and position) to Judea that the kings of Egypt and Syria are called the kings of the south and the north.” (Page 180)
We will continue with this in our next post.
