The Law is Established by Faith

[GracePeace]

I don't go off-topic in my threads--I try not to anyway--so here we have a thread just for your little gripe.

I don't plan to change your mind only to make an open show of you.

I said :

The Law is not nullified by faith, but established by faith Romans 3:31; we fulfill the righteous requirement of the Law when we are under Grace Romans 8:4.

Wrangler responded :

Didn't you mean that Grace is established by faith?

You then mistakenly tried to correct me :

Christian faith does not establish the law.

You then corrected your mistake and agreed faith established the Law :

Now put that in motion....when was the law establish?

 

[Grailhunter]

You then corrected your mistake and agreed faith established the Law :

Twisting my words is not going to help you none.
Can you give me the name of the Apostle that was assisting Moses as he wrote the law and taught it to the Israelite people.

Now put that in motion....when was the law establish?
I don't think there is any question that the law was established in the Old Testament....

 

[GracePeace]

Twisting my words is not going to help you none

I said faith established the Law.
Grailhunter then objected, stating the Law was not established by faith.
Grailhunter then went back on his statement and agreed.
I have not twisted his words.
Grailhunter is not seeing things properly.

Can you give me the name of the Apostle that was assisting Moses as he wrote the law and taught it to the Israelite people

I'm not sure if Grailhunter is trying to give me a trick question.
On one hand, this is a fallacy called a "strawman"--building an argument I never made, attacking it, defeating it, then falsely declaring this is a victory over my actual argument--since I never made any such claim. This is what is known as "hypocrisy", since he just got done complaining that I was "twisting" his words. Honestly, the audacity!
On the other hand, since Jesus is called an "Apostle", he may be referring to Jesus, since Jesus is also God, and Moses met with God.

Now put that in motion....when was the law establish?
I don't think there is any question that the law was established in the Old Testament....

Not sure how you plan to get out of how you are warring against Romans 3:31.
Paul stated that the Law was not nullified by faith because that would have been the Jewish objection to his teaching. He says "no the Law is not nullified, it is established". It is established in a number of ways. One of the ways is that we fulfill the righteous requirement of the Law when we walk by grace through faith Romans 2:13-15, Romans 2:26-27, Romans 8:4.

 

[Grailhunter]

I said faith established the Law.
Grailhunter then objected, stating the Law was not established by faith.
Grailhunter then went back on his statement and agreed.
I have not twisted his words.
Grailhunter is not seeing things properly.

You obviously have not mastered the understanding of scriptures.
There are straight forward scriptures and then there are metaphorical or analytical scriptures.
No person in the New Testament went back to the Old Testament to establish the law.

I'm not sure if Grailhunter is trying to give me a trick question.
On one hand, this is a fallacy called a "strawman"--building an argument I never made, attacking it, defeating it, then falsely declaring this is a victory over my actual argument--since I never made any such claim. This is what is known as "hypocrisy", since he just got done complaining that I was "twisting" his words. Honestly, the audacity!
On the other hand, since Jesus is called an "Apostle", he may be referring to Jesus, since Jesus is also God, and Moses met with God.

NO the problem is that you can not stand up to the truth or scriptures. No one in the New Testament went back to establish the Mosaic Law. You can twist it all you want, but remember there are people watching.

Not sure how you plan to get out of how you are warring against Romans 3:31.
Paul stated that the Law was not nullified by faith because that would have been the Jewish objection to his teaching. He says "no the Law is not nullified, it is established". It is established in a number of ways. One of the ways is that we fulfill the righteous requirement of the Law when we walk by grace through faith.

Who do you think said this....
Romans 8:4.
Galatians 3:25 But now faith that is come, we are no longer under a tutor.

Christian faith does not establish the law. The law came before Christian faith.

Romans 8:4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Hebrews 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second.

Hebrews 8:13 When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is about to disappear.

2nd Corinthians 3:7-10 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels.

Galatians 5:2 Look! I, Paul, tell you that if you have yourselves circumcised, Christ will be of no benefit to you.

A little expanded on the detail
Galatians 5:1-6
It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery. Look! I, Paul, tell you that if you have yourselves circumcised, Christ will be of no benefit to you. And I testify again to every man who has himself circumcised, that he is obligated to keep the whole Law. You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by the Law; you have fallen from grace. For we, through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.

The morals of the law are inferior to the teachings of Christ. The spirit of the Law was of cruelty and Paul refers to it as a curse.

 

[GracePeace]

You obviously have not mastered the understanding of scriptures.
There are straight forward scriptures and then there are metaphorical or analytical scriptures.
No person in the New Testament went back to the Old Testament to establish the law

1. Grailhunter is obviously in denial. He admitted the law was established by faith, he only objected to my understanding of how that happened.
2. Confused and forgetful of his own concession, he here militates against Paul--"No, Paul, the law is not established by faith!"
3. Hardly have I met a more (at best) confused person than Grailhunter.

NO the problem is that you can not stand up to the truth or scriptures. No one in the New Testament went back to establish the Mosaic Law. You can twist it all you want, but remember there are people watching.

Another strawman--I never made such an argument.
In fact, I made clear what I meant.
Oddly, it is Grailhunter, the very one accusing me of incapability of standing up to truth, who cannot bring himself to face my actual argument.

Christian faith does not establish the law. The law came before Christian faith.

Tell that to Paul.

Romans 3
31Do we then nullify the Law through faith? Far from it! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

Please stop dodging, and instead respond to Romans 3:31.

Romans 8:4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Hebrews 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second.

Hebrews 8:13 When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is about to disappear.

2nd Corinthians 3:7-10 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels.

Galatians 5:2 Look! I, Paul, tell you that if you have yourselves circumcised, Christ will be of no benefit to you.

A little expanded on the detail
Galatians 5:1-6
It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery. Look! I, Paul, tell you that if you have yourselves circumcised, Christ will be of no benefit to you. And I testify again to every man who has himself circumcised, that he is obligated to keep the whole Law. You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by the Law; you have fallen from grace. For we, through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.

You are either misunderstanding or knowingly misrepresenting me; either way, you aren't addressing what I'm actually saying.

The morals of the law are inferior to the teachings of Christ. The spirit of the Law was of cruelty and Paul refers to it as a curse.

1. Not that it matters for the purposes of this conversation, but, furnishing my reasons, I already stated that I held to this very belief, on the OSAS forum before (eg, here and here), so we agree that the Law of Moses was inferior (but not that it was wholly "cruelty"--Paul would definitely not approve of such a condemnation of the Law, since he calls it "holy, spiritual, good" in Romans 7).
2. No, you can't show anyone where Paul referred to the Law as a "curse". He said those who were under the Law were cursed because the Law would righteously pronounce a curse on them because they did not keep the righteous requirement of the Law (because they didn't have grace if they were under Law).

 

[Grailhunter]

1. Grailhunter is obviously in denial. He admitted the law was established by faith, he only objected to my understanding of how that happened.
2. Confused and forgetful of his own concession, he here militates against Paul--"No, Paul, the law is not established by faith!"
3. Hardly have I met a more (at best) confused person than Grailhunter.


Another strawman--I never made such an argument.
In fact, I made clear what I meant.
Oddly, it is Grailhunter, the very one accusing me of incapability of standing up to truth, who cannot bring himself to face my actual argument.


Tell that to Paul.

Romans 3
31Do we then nullify the Law through faith? Far from it! On the contrary, we establish the Law.


You are either misunderstanding or knowing misrepresenting me; either way, you aren't addressing what I'm actually saying.


1. Not that it matters for the purposes of this conversation, but I already stated on the OSAS forum before, so we agree that the Law of Moses contained concessions inferior (but not that it was wholly "cruelty"--Paul would definitely not approve of such a condemnation of the Law, since he calls it "holy, spiritual, good" in Romans 7).
2. No, you can't show anyone where Paul referred to the Law as a "curse". He said those who were under the Law were cursed because the Law would righteously pronounce a curse on them because they did not keep the righteous requirement of the Law (because they didn't have grace if they were under Law).

One thing for sure...you are much better at twisting the scriptures and what people say than actually understanding the Bible.

No, you can't show anyone where Paul referred to the Law as a "curse". He said those who were under the Law were cursed because the Law would righteously pronounce a curse on them because they did not keep the righteous requirement of the Law (because they didn't have grace if they were under Law).

Well what did he refer to the law as....ministry of death. and actually referred to it as "curse of the law" Geez word for word.

Expanded a little
Galatians 3:10-14 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.” The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.” 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.” 14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

So how many times does Paul have to say the word curse to get that through that thick noggen of yours. Now go ahead do that thing you do...twist lie twist lie twist lie. People are getting use to your twisted interpretations.

 

[GracePeace]

One thing for sure...you are much better at twisting the scriptures and what people say than actually understanding the Bible

Actually, having read your objection against Paul's explicit statement, I now see that I was misunderstanding you--your empty objection is actually a twisting of Paul's words : Paul says "we establish the law by faith", and you object to him "no one went backwards and was present at Mount Sinai with Moses to help him establish the Law by faith!" You are completely lost where understanding of Scripture is concerned. Paul was merely addressing a Jewish objection based on passages like Deuteronomy 13:1-11.
I admit I misunderstood your empty objection--I'd never imagined someone could actually misunderstand Paul so badly.

Well what did he refer to the law as....ministry of death. and actually referred to it as "curse of the law" Geez word for word.
Galations 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written: “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE”—

Expanded a little
Galatians 3:10-14 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.” The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.” 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.” 14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

So how many times does Paul have to say the word curse to get that through that thick noggen of yours. Now go ahead do that thing you do...twist lie twist lie twist lie. People are getting use to your twisted interpretations.

As Dr. Michael L. Brown says, "0 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 0."
You have furnished precisely zero Scriptures that support the idea that the Law is a curse--all of these only support my view that the Law pronounces a curse on people who are under the Law.
If you disagree, show me precisely why--point to a SINGLE verse that supports your view and "call me on the carpet" and force me to see that it says the Law itself is a curse and not that it issues a curse.

 

[Grailhunter]

Actually, having read your objection against Paul's explicit statement, I now see that I was misunderstanding you--your empty objection is actually a twisting of Paul's words : Paul says "we establish the law by faith", and you object to him "no one went backwards and was present at Mount Sinai with Moses to help him establish the Law by faith!" You are completely lost where understanding of Scripture is concerned. Paul was merely addressing a Jewish objection based on passages like Deuteronomy 13:1-11.
I admit I misunderstood your empty objection--I'd never imagined someone could actually misunderstand Paul so badly.


As Dr. Michael L. Brown says, "0 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 0."
You have furnished precisely zero Scriptures that support the idea that the Law is a curse--all of these only support my view that the Law pronounces a curse on people who are under the Law.
If you disagree, show me precisely why--point to a SINGLE verse that supports your view and "call me on the carpet" and force me to see that it says the Law itself is a curse and not that it issues a curse.

Twist lie Twist lie Twist lie....you so funny

 

[GracePeace]

Twist lie Twist lie Twist lie....you so funny

So, you have no answers right?

 

[Curtis]

Romans 3
31Do we then nullify the Law through faith? Far from it! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

You mean like THIS Paul?

Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Paul actually says that the law is still in effect for everyone who is not born again, because the law states what sin is, so they can know they are sinners, then states that Christians have DIED TO THE LAW, because they have Gods spirit indwelling them.

1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

1Ti 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

Christians are made righteous and are no longer ungodly, and the law was not meant for us - we were married to the law, but are now married to Jesus, and have died to the law.

Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Thus the law is both still in effect and established for the unconverted, and yet is no longer in effect for Christians, who have died to the law.

That’s why debaters use dueling scriptures - one side posts all the scriptures that say the law is still in effect, and the other side posts all the scriptures that show the law has ended when Christ and faith came.

Both are correct:

The law is in effect for the ungodly and unholy sinners.

Christians have died to the law.

 

[Grailhunter]

So, you have no answers right?

I have given you several answers and with supporting scriptures and have proved you wrong with scriptures.
As the English say, "You are boring me now!"
At this point the ignorance of your thinking has lost its entertainment value. Good bye

 

[GracePeace]

Galatians 3:10-14 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.” The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.” 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.” 14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

So how many times does Paul have to say the word curse to get that through that thick noggen of yours. Now go ahead do that thing you do...twist lie twist lie twist lie. People are getting use to your twisted interpretations.

So, what does Paul think of the Law? He uses many positive adjectives to describe the Law and the good which it commanded Jews to do.

Romans 7
7What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? Far from it!
...
12So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.
13Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? [r]Far from it! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by bringing about my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.
14For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am fleshly, sold into bondage to sin. 15For I do not understand what I am doing; for I am not practicing what I want to do, but I do the very thing I hate. 16However, if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, that the Law is good. ... 18For I know that good does not dwell in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. 19For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.
...
21I find then the [t]principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22For I joyfully agree with the law of God in the inner person, 23but I see a different law in [v]the parts of my body waging war against the law of my mind, and making me a prisoner [w]of the law of sin, the law which is in [x]my body’s parts.

Again, you mean well but you are off base.

 

[GracePeace]

You mean like THIS Paul?

Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Paul actually says that the law is still in effect for everyone who is not born again, because the law states what sin is, so they can know they are sinners, then states that Christians have DIED TO THE LAW, because they have Gods spirit indwelling them.

1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

1Ti 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

Christians are made righteous and are no longer ungodly, and the law was not meant for us - we were married to the law, but are now married to Jesus, and have died to the law.

Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Thus the law is both still in effect and established for the unconverted, and yet is no longer in effect for Christians, who have died to the law.

That’s why debaters use dueling scriptures - one side posts all the scriptures that say the law is still in effect, and the other side posts all the scriptures that show the law has ended when Christ and faith came.

Both are correct:

The law is in effect for the ungodly and unholy sinners.

Christians have died to the law.

Romans 3:31 does not relate to "The law is in effect for the ungodly and unholy sinners" since Paul says "we establish the Law by faith" which does not relate to sinners. You have to keep "the faith" in mind. Now, what do you think Paul meant by Romans 3:31?

 

[GracePeace]

I have given you several answers and with supporting scriptures and have proved you wrong with scriptures.
As the English say, "You are boring me now!"
At this point the ignorance of your thinking has lost its entertainment value. Good bye

I've already responded : all of those verses say that the Law pronounces a curse on the unrighteous, not that the Law is Itself a curse.

Well, thanks for giving me the opportunity to both expose you and edify everyone at the same time.

 

[GracePeace]

I've already responded : all of those verses say that the Law pronounces a curse on the unrighteous, not that the Law is Itself a curse.

Galatians 3:10-14 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse

So, the word "curse" is used here. How is it used? Is it used to describe the Law as a curse? No, it warns that people are cursed if they rely on the works of the Law. You misunderstood Paul--he furnishes no proof for your purport that the Law is a curse--here.

“Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”

So, the word "curse" is used here. How is it used? Is it used to describe the Law as a curse? No, the Law pronounces a curse on people who are unrighteous by not doing the righteous commandments of the Law. You misunderstood Paul--he furnishes no proof for your purport that the Law is a curse--here.

13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”

So, the word "curse" is used here. How is it used? Is it used to describe the Law as a curse? No, the phrase "curse of the Law" means "the curse which the Law pronounces", referring to his previous purports that the Law pronounces curses on the unrighteous breakers of the good holy and spiritual Law--Christ redeems those upon whom the Law had pronounced its curse (because they were unrighteous and broke the Law) by qualifying for a curse from the Law Himself (by hanging on a tree). You misunderstood Paul--he furnishes no proof for your purport that the Law is a curse--here.

I have no fear of any Scripture you cite--when I'm wrong, I'll admit it, but the Scriptures you cited present no danger to my view whatsoever.

 

[Enoch111]

"The Law is Established by Faith"
What exactly is your point? The whole point of the New Covenant is to make the Ten Commandments into the Law of Christ. Which is the Law of Love.

 

[GracePeace]

"The Law is Established by Faith"
What exactly is your point? The whole point of the New Covenant is to make the Ten Commandments into the Law of Christ. Which is the Law of Love.

Another user had a difference with me on Romans 3:31, but it wasn't the topic on that thread (the topic was whether or not Christians had to serve by the Law), so I created this thread to discuss the meaning of the phrase.

Just a quick skim through of the thread should satisfy any further curiosity. :)

 

[robert derrick]

Twisting my words is not going to help you none.
Can you give me the name of the Apostle that was assisting Moses as he wrote the law and taught it to the Israelite people.

Now put that in motion....when was the law establish?
I don't think there is any question that the law was established in the Old Testament....

The Law of the Old Covenant was established under the Old Covenant, without the 'assistance of the 12 apostles'.

The Law of the New Covenant was established under the New Covenant, without the 'assistance of Moses'.

The law of God was changed when the covenant of God was changed: with the death of Jesus on the cross.

"For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law." (Heb 7)

The law of God was that of Moses, the law of God is that of Christ.

 

[Curtis]

Romans 3:31 does not relate to "The law is in effect for the ungodly and unholy sinners" since Paul says "we establish the Law by faith" which does not relate to sinners. You have to keep "the faith" in mind. Now, what do you think Paul meant by Romans 3:31?

That’s blatantly obvious. The law is still in place, but not for Christians who’ve died to the law.

My prior post was too clear to obfuscate.

Put your little proof text in context:

Rom 3:27 What, then, can we boast about? Nothing! And what is the reason for this? Is it that we obey the Law? No, but that we believe.

Rom 3:28 For we conclude that a person is put right with God only through faith, and not by doing what the Law commands.

Rom 3:29 Or is God the God of the Jews only? Is he not the God of the Gentiles also? Of course he is.

Rom 3:30 God is one, and he will put the Jews right with himself on the basis of their faith, and will put the Gentiles right through their faith.

Rom 3:31 Does this mean that by this faith we do away with the Law? No, not at all; instead, we uphold the Law.

After an entire chapter establishing that we aren’t under the law as believers, but under faith, Paul said the law is established by faith - but did not contradict himself and claim believers are under the law - which he made clear is not made for the righteous and godly, but for the unconverted who are ungodly sinners.

In Romans 3:21 Paul explains the fact that we are righteous apart from the law, which is witnessed BY the law:

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God WITHOUT the law is manifested, being witnessed BY the law and the prophets;

The law remains in place, yet believers are not under it.

Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

 

[GracePeace]

That’s blatantly obvious. The law is still in place, but not for Christians who’ve died to the law.

My prior post was too clear to obfuscate.

Put your little proof text in context:

Rom 3:27 What, then, can we boast about? Nothing! And what is the reason for this? Is it that we obey the Law? No, but that we believe.

Rom 3:28 For we conclude that a person is put right with God only through faith, and not by doing what the Law commands.

Rom 3:29 Or is God the God of the Jews only? Is he not the God of the Gentiles also? Of course he is.

Rom 3:30 God is one, and he will put the Jews right with himself on the basis of their faith, and will put the Gentiles right through their faith.

Rom 3:31 Does this mean that by this faith we do away with the Law? No, not at all; instead, we uphold the Law.

After an entire chapter establishing that we aren’t under the law as believers, but under faith, Paul said the law is established by faith - but did not contradict himself and claim believers are under the law - which he made clear is not made for the righteous and godly, but for the unconverted who are ungodly sinners.

In Romans 3:21 Paul explains the fact that we are righteous apart from the law, which is witnessed BY the law:

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God WITHOUT the law is manifested, being witnessed BY the law and the prophets;

The law remains in place, yet believers are not under it.

Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

1. Paul had to respond to an obvious objection : "Oh yeah? You're nullifying the Law and Its righteous requirements? False prophet! You're leading us away from God! God is testing us! Deuteronomy 13:1-11!" That is an obvious thought anyone will have--"If we are not under Law, doesn't that mean we can live in sin?" "No," Paul responds, "that's not what I mean. This message of peace with God by His Grace through faith doesn't mean the Law is nullified, in fact It's established (in part because Grace makes us able to fulfill the righteous requirements of the Law Romans 8:4).

2. I never said believers were under the Law. You should read what I believe (eg, the OP) before trying to argue against what I believe.