"Once Saved Always Saved?"

[Robert Gwin]

Many teach Heb 6 as proof that 'once saved, always saved', because it is impossible for those once enlightened by Christ to not go on to heaven with Him...

They also say John 10 proves eternal salvation without chance of failure to arrive with Him in heaven. Once eternal Life is given to us by Jesus Christ, and we are enlightened by Him, we can never perish, and no man is able to pluck us from His hand...

When we are granted life Bob, after we have endured satan's release, we simply are back to square one, we will be perfect individuals like Adam was. Obviously although he was created with eternal life, his retaining that was dependent upon obedience to Jehovah's rules and regulations. The Bible does not say that we will not be subject to the laws of God in the future. Jehovah has always regulated His people and to remain His people, obedience is required.

Keep in mind, the demons once had eternal life as well, and although they live millenniums longer than us sinful humans, their destruction is foretold in the Bible sir. Even perfect individuals can rebel against God, and their outcome will not be immortality.

 

[robert derrick]

When we are granted life Bob, after we have endured satan's release, we simply are back to square one, we will be perfect individuals like Adam was. Obviously although he was created with eternal life, his retaining that was dependent upon obedience to Jehovah's rules and regulations. The Bible does not say that we will not be subject to the laws of God in the future. Jehovah has always regulated His people and to remain His people, obedience is required.

Keep in mind, the demons once had eternal life as well, and although they live millenniums longer than us sinful humans, their destruction is foretold in the Bible sir. Even perfect individuals can rebel against God, and their outcome will not be immortality.

Yes, the first example of being created an eternal being and then by sin entering into the heart, becoming condemned to the lake of fire instead of heaven forever is Lucifer: Satan and devil.

Crucifying Jesus afresh by returning to the death of past transgressions and sins, is to spit out His blood as an unholy thing, despising the Spirit of grace that in His blood. (Heb 10) (2 Peter 2)

Once doing so, it is impossible to renew repentance toward God, because there remains no more sacrifice for sin, because Jesus would only shed His blood into the earth ONCE. No more. (Heb 7)

So, no matter how much sin we may find ourselves entangled in, by no means must we cease to pray and worship and confess and be thankful for His everlasting mercies and lovingkindness to us-ward, for the sake of the blood of His dear Son, which still abides in us...

For if we do cease to confess and worship with thankfulness for forgiveness of sins, no matter how oft we must do, then we indeed spit His blood out, and when we bleed out into the earth our own corrupt blood, we will not be present with Him in heaven.

'Once saved always saved' is a false doctrine and devilish 'security', that denies the shedding of Jesus blood on the cross was necessary for salvation and redemption of them that believe and obey...

"And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" (Luke 6)

"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1)

 

[Robert Gwin]

Yes, the first example of being created an eternal being and then by sin entering into the heart, becoming condemned to the lake of fire instead of heaven forever is Lucifer: Satan and devil.

Crucifying Jesus afresh by returning to the death of past transgressions and sins, is to spit out His blood as an unholy thing, despising the Spirit of grace that in His blood. (Heb 10) (2 Peter 2)

Once doing so, it is impossible to renew repentance toward God, because there remains no more sacrifice for sin, because Jesus would only shed His blood into the earth ONCE. No more. (Heb 7)

So, no matter how much sin we may find ourselves entangled in, by no means must we cease to pray and worship and confess and be thankful for His everlasting mercies and lovingkindness to us-ward, for the sake of the blood of His dear Son, which still abides in us...

For if we do cease to confess and worship with thankfulness for forgiveness of sins, no matter how oft we must do, then we indeed spit His blood out, and when we bleed out into the earth our own corrupt blood, we will not be present with Him in heaven.

'Once saved always saved' is a false doctrine and devilish 'security', that denies the shedding of Jesus blood on the cross was necessary for salvation and redemption of them that believe and obey...

"And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" (Luke 6)

"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1)

Yes sir, I fully agree with this.

 

[Taken]

Can we lose our salvation?
1. How can we lose something we did not win in the first place?

2. It is not our salvation to win or lose, but God's to do for us by grace through faith.

So what then of not abiding in the Vine (John 15). Of falling away (Heb 6). Of being a castaway (1 Cor 9)

A man can Lose his Salvation.
A Converted man can NOT Lose his Salvation.

Salvation is not a "prize" to win.
Salvation is an Offered Gift from God.
The Gift is expressly Offered "TO" and expressly "FOR" each and every person.
Because it is "OFFERED" TO and FOR each and every person, IT IS For each and every person ("not to win") .... but rather TO "CLAIM"... and "TAKE and RECEIVE POSSESSION of their Gift".


Sort of secularly like...If you had the winning number for the lottery. Once you knew the winning numbers....you could say you won, the money is yours....which is true. But IF you do not "actually CLAIM" your prize (by the rule of alloted timeframe), you would lose your prize, If you cheated somehow, forged a number, or lied that you won, when you didn't, you would also lose the prize.

Spiritually, you are Offered Salvation. There are "also rules" (so to speak).
It requires a Confession of Belief, (in the one you expect to receive the Gift from).
It requires your Confession be a True Confession from the thoughts of your heart.
It requires you claim your Gift, (before the alloted timeframe....physical bodily death).
If your Confession was from your MIND, thoughts, rather than your Hearts thoughts, you "cheated", and do not receive Salvation.
If you "Lie" about your Confession, you do not Receive "your" Salvation.
So, you could go to a Church, "cheat, lie", to the Church body and the Pastor, be dipped in Water, while the Pastor pronounces in the NAME fo the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, and the congregation would congradulate you...but it would be fraudlent.
( That ^ does happen. And is discovered, by God, obviously immediately, but discovered by men (sometimes years later), when that individual themself announces: they DO NOT Believe.)
They fooled other men, but not God.

Again, Salvation is a gift from God, already Paid For and expressly a gift for every person.
Failure for a person to CLAIM "their" gift or "a pretense" of having CLAIMED their Gift falsely .... is a person who has Lost "their" Gift of Salvation.

They do NOT "receive their Gift" and then LOSE IT.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[robert derrick]

A man can Lose his Salvation.
A Converted man can NOT Lose his Salvation.

God Bless,
Taken

You point being that salvation of God is now offered to all, the Jews 1st, and then the gentiles, but not everyone will receive it by faith, but abide in unbelief (Rom 11)

Fair enough, but I wouldn't call that 'losing their salvation'. But rather rejecting the gift thereof unto the end. Never entering the race of faith in the first place.

The admonition therefore is having once begun the race of faith, not to fail to run it to the end:

"Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.' (1 Cor 9)

For we do not win salvation, but rather by that salvation of grace through faith we enter into the race to heaven, which we must finish steadfast unto the end, or fail to obtain the prize and crown awaiting us in glory: to win Jesus Christ. (Phillip 3)

"Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ." (2 Peter 3) (2 Thess 2)

 

[Taken]

You point being that salvation of God is now offered to all, the Jews 1st, and then the gentiles, but not everyone will receive it by faith, but abide in unbelief (Rom 11)

Fair enough, but I wouldn't call that 'losing their salvation'. But rather rejecting the gift thereof unto the end. Never entering the race of faith in the first place.

The admonition therefore is having once begun the race of faith, not to fail to run it to the end:

"Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.' (1 Cor 9)

For we do not win salvation, but rather by that salvation of grace through faith we enter into the race to heaven, which we must finish steadfast unto the end, or fail to obtain the prize and crown awaiting us in glory: to win Jesus Christ. (Phillip 3)

"Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ." (2 Peter 3) (2 Thess 2)

I get your point. Secularly lose means to no longer have what you once possessed.
Spiritually it means you lost what was Paid for for you as a gift, but you never claimed it.

Scripture has two "understandings"...
One according to a secular mind.
One according to God.
If you "understand" both ways, it reveals your fruit.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[robert derrick]

I get your point. Secularly lose means to no longer have what you once possessed.
Spiritually it means you lost what was Paid for for you as a gift, but you never claimed it.

Scripture has two "understandings"...
One according to a secular mind.
One according to God.
If you "understand" both ways, it reveals your fruit.

God Bless,
Taken

I.e. They understand what was said, but refuse to understand and believe it with the heart. Or rather the opportunity to receive the blessing is 'lost' or passed up, at the time it was being offered:

These are those by the way side (Matthew 13), the fowls of the air lodging in the shadows (Mark 4), looking into but not partaking of the blessing: the seed was sown in the heart and then immediately rejected. They heard the Word of faith and willfully refused to believe. (Mark 4)

Unbelief is an evil thing to God: it is an evil heart of unbelief (Heb 3), because it is not by happenstance nor is it casual, it is decidedly on purpose. Not 'understanding' what god is commanding is not an excuse at all, because God's Word does go quick to the heart, where all understanding resides (Heb 4)(John 12). Once God's only begotten Son came down from heaven and died on the cross, and had His gospel preached in the world, all men are commanded to repent or be destroyed. (Matthew 3) (Acts 3)

Repentance is the reason for rejecting the gift, and once the offered space of receiving the faith and repenting is past, then no more sacrifice for sins remain (Rev 2:21) (Heb 10)

And so, it still remains to be seen if after having received the faith in the heart unto repentance, it is then possible to undo the good work of faith done by God in the heart and life of the believer.

So first let's address the real possibility of someone among the believers, speaking Jesus' name with the lips only for a season, and then departing from the company of them that believe.

"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us." (1 John 2)

And for now, we can throw in all the seeds on stony ground and among thorns to add to them on the way side. Those who reject immediately and those who depart company of the saints in due time, for whatever cause.

That leaves only them of good ground bringing forth fruits of the Spirit. Can these true believers, the very elect (Matthew 24), be moved to 'repent' of having believed and lived by the faith of Jesus.

 

[GracePeace]

Can we lose our salvation?
1. How can we lose something we did not win in the first place?

Adam was "given" life (did nothing to earn it) but he lost what was "given" him didn't he?

 

[robert derrick]

Yes, by transgression.

Remains the same today. God's promises, covenants, blessings, etc... have always been conditional.

It's always the same: If you, then I.

God didn't start it, but He will finish it.